T.E. rollbar safe in a street car?

I am interested in a Tech Equip (sp?) for a 996 but I have always been worried about the safety of a roll bar in a street car. In most circles it is considered a big no-no to have a roll bar installed in a car that will be driven without helmets on heads, but for whatever reason Porsche must feel it is okay to install a rollbar in a 996 for street use. I would only begin to feel comfortable if the rollbar is combined with the GT3 one-piece seats, but even then it is easy to imagine head to rollbar contact in a serious accident or roll over, especially if the occupant is tall. See the attached pic (thanks rockitman!) and notice how close the seats are to the rollbar tubes. Does anyone have any real infomation on the subject of the safety of a rollbar in a street car? Thanks

For safety reasons, the rollbar should have some decent high-density padding on it. Still probably isn't as safe in an accident as not having one; you have to weight the factors. Note that the Techquipment bar is not considered to be all that strong so if you are getting for looks, that is okay, but if you want real rollover protection for track use, then I'd look elsewhere.

what's worse....bumping your head on the rollbar or the roof caving in?

I am not sure, are you? I am not here to argue but how many accidents are roll overs vs. impacts that could cause a head to contact the rollbar.

I don't see a problem running these roll bars on the street. They are behind the seats so I'm not sure how your head is going to hit them unless your seat flexes. The car also has side air bags that act as side curtain air bags, giving your head further protection. A full cage is a different animal and it should have appropriate padding where you may contact it during a crash.

Lighten up E36, I was just teasing. Note the smiley face after my post. Besides, you'd have to be an absolute giant for your head to whip back over the GT3 seats. The bar looks like it sits few inches behind the seats.

This issue has allready been discussed. It seems that roll over bar is unsafe when/if not wearing a helmett. See this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=98098 Difficult answer anyhow !! Good luck

As explained to me... Think of it as a complete system. If you are going to do the rollbar, you want to get fixed back seats (GT3 seats) or a seat back support if using two piece seats (standard sport seats). This keeps the back of the seat from collapsing in an accident which is where the head injury concern comes from. Trust me, at 6'4"... My head is not over the top of the GT3 seat. Now as far as the actual rollover protection of the Tequipment roll bar... I hope to never find out first hand.

These are fine on the street (in Germany/europe at least) when combined with the seats. They are sold as everyone is awaire at the dealer and carry a TUV certification. I would say that they meet the minium specs for some racing - I personally do not like the mounting system - but it is very non-invasive (no cutting) and is 100% better than a "harness bar" which is think a total waste of time. my 2 cents

When I wrecked my 996 at Road America I was wearing a top of the line Bell helmet and a Simpson 5 point harness. I was sitting in a full race seat. My cage was covered with high density racing foam and still I hit my head hard enough that I was seeing stars for five minutes. Not just a few like when you bump your head. Enough so that I couldn't see. I had a headache for a couple of days. A number of things contributed to this including the fact that my belts stretched and my racing sliders and seat brackets bent on impact. My point? I used to have a roll bar in my street car when it was dual purpose but I would never do it again. In a wreck your head will go places you never imagined it could. A GT3 seat may have better support than a street seat but it's far from a racing seat and your three point harness is not good at limiting lateral movement. It's easy for me to imagine a front/side impact which throws you to your right followed by a rear impact that throws your head back and into the roll bar. Or a rollover where you are lifted from your seat and then throw around a bit. Or a slider failure with the same result. Just my 2 cents worth. I'm certainly no expert. Jim

Seems like if you have a street car that you track, this is a good argument for getting a strong, but removable, roll bar. And only install it when you're tracking the car. I've been thinking of doing that, but I never thought about the dangers of leaving it in all the time. Good info to know. =Carlos=

did you hit the rear hoop? just wondering - I got lucky and did not hit any of my front cage bars (all covered with high density foam - the cross bar in the rear was as well. but i had new belts and a fairly new seat - in a mostly frontal impact at high speed.

The TE bar and the GT3 seats are designed as a system to be safe on the street (no helmet). Clubsport versions of the 996 come equipped this way for road use in Europe. I would not use the bar without the GT3 seats designed to protect occupants not wearing helmets. Further, I would not wear a harness in a car without a roll bar, the 3 point belts allow movement should the roof collapse (and the 996 roof has been seen to collapse in a roll over to the extent that it crushed the head-rest). A Harness holds the occupant bolt upright .....! Rgds,

Rob, I hit the side bar. My belts were also new and tight but I experienced two pretty hard hits. First the car that I was passing put two wheels off and then darted back on the track hitting me right in front of the drivers door. He then rode me into the wall at something well over 110 mph. Ouch! Bob, I had forgotten that the club sports came that way in Europe. I have to say though that after seeing some of the safety equipment testing videos that are floating around, I have a whole new view of how your body gets thrown about even with a harness on. With a three point a lot of scary stuff can happen. I guess it's all a trade off. We can't drive around town harnessed in with racing suits and helmets. BTW, my HWFM title is a joke because of my crash. I am, however, spending a lot more time studying the topic now. Partially for my own good and partially because I'm the Asst safety Chair for our region. It's pretty interesting stuff. It has convinced me to switch from a 5 point to a 6 point harness and to buy a Hans device so at least I'm helping the racing economy. Jim

JimB - I have no desire to take your HWFMR job! Carry on the good work. I am waiting for a HANS I ordered. In the unlikely event I go fast (Should I make a mistake and hit an apex without spinning for example) I think the HANS device makes a lot off sense. Rgds,

JimB, Can you elaborate why you switched from a 5-point to a 6-point harness? Thanks! Jake

Bob, You don't just "get" this title, you have to earn it. I certainly hope you never do. Jake, Again, I'm no expert but I can parrot what the real experts are saying. Apparently it has been discovered that keeping your hips/pelvis in place is very important to safety in a serious crash. I guess if your hips stay in place the movement of the rest of your body is greatly reduced. Everybody knows that belts stretch somewhere around 15% so you are going to move around, even with tight harnesses. My understanding of the value of 6 pt vs 5 pt is that the 6 pt sub-belt limits the side to side movement of the lock as well as vertical movement. Apparently they do a much better job of keeping your lower body from moving. The tricky part on a 996 is mounting a 6 pt. The computer is sitting right where you should drill through the floor. Jim

That's interesting....I just switched mine from an incorrectly mounted 6-point to a 5-point. Here's why: I went to Sube Sports in Huntington Beach and they checked out my setup. I had a 6-point with the sub belt splitting off and mounting to the two front seat bracket fastening points. I never thought this was a good idea but this is what Northstar Motorsports recommended to me. The guys at Sube said that the 6-point sub belt should never go through the hole in the seat. The two straps are meant to go through your crotch and under your legs (on top of your seat)....then get fastened to the lap belt locations. So I switched my sub belt to a single (5-point) and mounted it to the middle of a steel bracket that I built spanning across the front of my seat bracket. They said that mounting through the floor with a backing plate is the best and I agree, but I didn't want to get that crazy. Any comments regarding safety would be appreciated.

Jake, There are two different types of 6 point harnesses. The ones your shop was refering to come through the lap belt holes and lay on the seat. You sit on them and then attach them to the camlock. I think they are intended to keep you from submarining rather that keeping your hips in place. The other type go through the normal sub-belt hole. As I recall they should be mounted through the floor (or similar) about 6-8 inches apart and directly below where the camlock is when you are buckled in. I looked for a site that shows proper installation but I could not find one. I think there are pictures on the Simpson site. Jim

Thanks Jim.