My Dealership Service Visit

I thought I'd solicit some member feedback or comments regarding my service visit today at a local dealer (Momentum Porsche). I had purchased the litronics retrofit kit for my '99 C2 from Foreign Affairs in Florida last week. Upon installation, I noticed the passenger side didn't function properly -- the reflector appeared to be aimed squarely at the ground, thereby yielding different illumination depth. I took my car in to the dealership as I thought the problem was a vertical adjustment issue. The technician indicated the culprit was the reflector rotator not locking properly (he popped open the unit and showed me the "slack" in the reflector rotator, and I could see it rock back and forth when I pressed with my fingers). The solution from Bill at Foreign Affairs was 1) to do an exchange via parcel service, or 2) have my local dealer treat it as warranty work since it's a genuine Porsche part. I chose option 2) for the convenience and quicker turnaround. My local dealer -- where I've had both my Porsches serviced exclusively for the past 5 years -- seemed very accomodating on the phone at first, but inexplicably changed their tune upon my arrival. The parts guy stated they can't send a defective part back to Porsche unless they (the dealership) were the original purchaser. In other words, they can't do a simple part swap for me since I didn't buy the kit from them. However, they can swap out the part if it's treated as warranty service, which I'm fine with as long as I can get it replaced. Except the service advisor disagreed and claimed it to be the parts dept's responsibility. Huh??? The service dept declining an opportunity to perform warranty work? To make a long story short, I was rudely turned away in the end for reasons I still don't quite understand. I guess that means I'm stuck with driving with a defective headlight until option 1) comes through. Am I expecting too much from my dealer? It's not like this is a special situation that deserves special consideration. Porsche warranties genuine parts for 2 years, so should this not be a warranty item regardless of where it was purchased? How's that any different from having any other warrantable items repaired/replaced at a dealership who didn't sell you the car originally? Thanks for your comments.

I had the exact same problem with a litronic from these guys - damaged during shipping. My local dealer swapped it out for me after I showed them the receipt - no problem. Momentum is a jackass in my experience - especially with BMW's. sorry frank

Sounds like you are stuck between two cost centers and neither the service or parts dept. wants to take a hit. Ahhh, dealership politics. At least you still have option one to send the part back to Bob at FA.

I'd call and/or write a letter to PCNA customer relations explaining the problem. I wrote a complaint letter to my dealer and CC'd PCNA and I got a lightning fast response and positive resolution.

Am I missing something here? The part wasn't purchased from a Porsche dealer, but an independent retailer. Why should PCNA replace the part under warranty. Your claim should be with the retailer, who can then seek his own reimbursement from whomever he purchased the product.

Fred, I think you are missing the bigger picture here. Lets say ucube was drving outide of his hometown area and had sustained serious damage requiring a NEW light assemmbly (doesn't matter what the situation..just the fact that a new one needs to be purchased). So.....he goes into the local Porsche dealer/authorized retailer/etc. in thte town he is in an buys a replacement. Then drives back home and relizes that his BRAND NEW porsche part is defective which is warranted by Porsche. Isn't the local dealer in his hometown an AUTHORIZED PORSCHE WARRANTY CENTER??? It all comes down to the point that Sloth made.......nobody wanted to take the hit and now playing hardball with the him. They know it would be eisier for him to send it back than to deal with them day after day until they finally say ok. Honestly, if it was me and FA was willing to pay S/H both ways and I still had the old lights I would just do it that way. But...........this is a matter of principal that is a recurring theme here on the boards!!!---dealers playing hardball and it just isn't right. Hyundai dealers I can understand. Porsche dealers, no way. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CAN"T GET OFF THE LOT FOR LESS THE $50K getting into the base boxster. $50k-$200K price points (excluding the CGT at $500K) is not a dealership that should be acting this way.....rolling out the red carpet and saying "yes sir, anything else sir" is more like it. Why do the local dealers acat like you own the hyundai and they own the Porsche?

I'm with Fred on this one. You may have been shipped a defective item, or it was damaged on shipping. Either way, the "hit" has to be absorbed by Foreign Affairs. It is my understanding they agreed to. At least, take consolation in the fact that FA did not claim it was damaged on installation. This is the risk we all have to take when we outsource parts and service for a better deal. Dealers offer their services, warranty or otherwise, and it costs them money. This is reflected in the higher prices. I don't think it is fair that other dealers/vendors, Porsche authorized or not, will sell you parts at cutroat prices, depending on the idea that they don't have to back themselves or their product. I do buy from other than the dealer, but then I don't expect the dealer to back those up. And, t FA is backing themselves up by offering a replacement at cost to them. If indeed I had a breakdown somewhere and got it repaired at a different Porsche dealership through no choice of mine, then I would insist on service from my local dealer. But a conscious choice to go somewhere else should result in my taking responsibility for that choice. Fair is fair.

I disagree with Fred & Palting. The Litronic light system is a Porsche manufactured part, carrying a Porsche factory warranty. That means that it can/should be serviced at any authorized Porsche warranty facility. Warranty work does not cost the dealer anything - it costs PCNA money. In fact, most dealers LOVE to do warranty work because it makes them tons of cash. Yes, FA is backing up their parts and they offered to do the exchange. Personally, I would take them up on their offer. However, LVDell made the extremely good point that some dealers are too lazy and don't want to lift a finger for parts they did not sell or install, even if it is a genuine Porsche part under Porsche warranty. To be fair, a lot of it depends on the service writer. I have had 3 different service writers at Beverly Hills Porsche. Two of them really didn't care if I was driving a Camry or a Turbo. However one of them treated me like royalty and made my service visit enjoyable. The "good" service writer told me that Turbos get carte blanche when in service.

Fred and Palting, your points are valid and I can certainly understand, but considering I've been a long-time exclusive customer of Momentum Porsche, plus this being the first time I've ever outsourced a part, I thought I'd be "entitled" to some accomodation or goodwill. Like I described in my post, they (dealer parts and service) were very cooperative and cordial at first. They became standoff-ish only after seeing my invoice/receipt, or more specifically, the cut-throat price. The level of customer service went downhill from there. I was even scolded by a technician that the problem was because I didn't install the wiring kit, therefore the unit malfunctioned. Say what? The reflector is pointing squarely at the ground because of no wiring kit? The lack of a wiring kit only mysteriously affected the passenger side and not the driver side? If that isn't a rude brush-off (and a pathetic one at that), then I don't know what is. I'm with LVDell as this is all about principle. I don't deserve to be treated so poorly considering my extensive relationship with that dealer. I was too disappointed to even get confrontational. I guess I got kicked to the curb.

At my dealer, I just got soaked for $220 for an oil change. Then they wanted $190 to bleed the brakes, $875 for new front pads and rotors, and $375 to take off the quiet GHL's and put on my louder ones. Sheeesh... Am I whining? Should I be?

It may just be a simple fix. Sometimes the ball joint pops out, just pop that baby back in.

Gents, Let's separate goodwill from warranty. I agree, that the dealer / PCNA could provide coverage as goodwill. But they didn't make any money on the transaction. They "don't have a dog in the fight". Any warranty is between the selling manufacturer and the buyer. PAG, or whomever, sold the part to FA, owes warranty to FA, and FA to the end user. PCNA is merely the middleman, a marketing subsidiary representing PAG in North America. They have to seek warranty reimbursement from PAG. This probably a straight forward pass thru, but the money does have to flow back and forth. Yes, I agree that it would have been easier to sweep this under the rug and have the dealer sneak it by PCNA. But the end user has no proof of purchase from PCNA or any of its representatives. The proper protocol was suggested by FA. While it may be disappointing that a specific dealer did not want to get involved, it is not surprising, nor a mortal indictment of said dealer. It is interesting that I have taken Euro Delivery on several Porsches and BMW's. Guess who covers the warranty for a failure while you're outside of the USA? PAG or BMWAG, not their NA subs. In all cases, it was clearly stated that I had a "worldwide warranty" from the manufacturer, but only a US warranty through their NA subs. It's the same with a part purchased from a Porsche dealer in Germany. My warranty would not be with PCNA, but with PAG. Do you see a similarity to this Litronic situation? Just trying to shed some light, not trying to prove a point.

Call me dense Fred, but I don't see it your way. I am not trying to be argumentative, but I genuinely do not understand your point of view. Let me paint you a picture so you can see where I'm coming from. Let's say that I bought a Litronic kit from Beverly Hills Porsche. Now I go on a roadtrip to Vegas and my Litronic fails. Because of my schedule I have to drive at night, only I cannot do so because of my broken light. I take my car to whatever authorized Porsche center is in Las Vegas and I ask them to fix or replace the Litronic (which is a stock part 99% of the time). Do you expect me to accept an answer of "no, you didn't buy the part here"? I don't think that would go over very well. The only difference in this case is that the part was not purchased from an authorized Porsche center. The part itself should still carry its warranty shouldn't it? Do you at least understand where I'm coming from or am I smoking crack?

BFord - Any authorized dealer will charge a lot of money for the services you received. Most dealers will negotiate on their pricing, especially when you have multiple service items done and even more so when you purchased your car there. I take my non-warranty work to an independant who charges $75/hour instead of my dealer's $125/hr. He also marks up parts a lot less. FYI, I paid $130 for my Mobil1 oil change, $165 for brake bleed (upgrading to ATE Super Blue), and $150 for my exhaust swapout - this was all at my independent shop. Was it still a lot more expensive than servicing a Honda? Yes, but it saved me 44% off of dealer retail. Check out your local PCA magazine to see what independent shops are in your area (or if you're in North OC/San Gabriel Valley email me and I'll talk to you about my shop).

Tried that, but the latch which catches the ball joint looks to have broken off (I compared it against the driver side which was functional). Thanks anyway, Eric. I guess I'll have to send the unit back to FA for an exchange. I hope Bill at FA will reimburse me for the return shipping charge. Thanks to all who've shared their takes on the issue.

Yeah figured that, too easy.

FA should have a shipping label for you so you are not paying the shipping charge. As for "discussing" this issue with Fred it is a moot point. He apparently sees the angle of the dealer only and will not understand the breadth of the situation. Ryan made a great point elaborating on my previous point. Doesn't Fred contradict himself when he uses the term "selling manufacturer"? Porsche is the selling manufacturer, but FA is just a reseller. Not trying to be argumentative with Fred (and I don't think anybody else is) but it astonishes me that phrases like "goodwil" and "sweep it under the rug" are used when it comes to an AUTHENTIC OEM PORSCHE PART! Remember and repeat with me.....PORSCHE not Hyundai. It is not like you are asking for warranty replacement on an aftermarket part.

Ryan / Trojan Man: Thanks for calming me down, I know some good independents in our area too. The dealer thing just gets me! Cheers.

Guys, A closing thought........ I am both a consumer like all of you and I represent a manufacturer that sells through a dealer network of independent owned dealers. Together, we sell and support those big yellow things that you see on every construction site around the world. We regularly support customer problems via "goodwill". These are cases where the customer has not received fair value either in or out of warranty, or cases where where our longterm relationship is in jeopardy. Some of these settlements would cover the cost of several Carrera GT's. They are not all small potatoes. The point I was trying to make is that to try to understand what goes on behind the scenes, and have a sense of who has the "money' and how it flows. In the case of my company, if the customer was a good, regular customer, any of our dealers would have handled such a small manner and quickly moved on. In this case, I believe the problem was that the dealer was upset that he was significantly undersold by another, non Porsche party, and was now being asked to provide warranty support. It is his right to make such a business decision, despite the fact that it is very shortsighted when dealing with a good customer. However, all was not lost because the customer still had a support offered by the selling party, FA. I once had an auto dealer initially refuse to install some parts I purchased somewhere else. His initial position was, "You wouldn't bring your own eggs to a restaurant and asked for them to be cooked". My response was that I was seeking to purchase his labor at selling rates, and if he chose not to sell me his labor, I would find another shop that would. He could either have my business, or lose it, perhaps forever. He then made a business decision that our future business relationship would better be served by selling me his labor. Some folks take the "long" view, but unfortunately some take the "short". I hope that by now the poster has received support from one of the parties and is back on the road. Cheers,

While I agree with Fred regarding "goodwill" and the "long view" he is incorrect about labor rates. In all shops the operating costs are based on the labor and parts profits. There is a ratio of parts to labor of about 0.5, in other words the shop would like to sell 50 cents of parts to each $1 of labor. If the shop is only selling labor then immediately it is running below budget. In a perfect world if a customer bought their own parts in the labor rate should be increased to reflect the loss of profit on parts. This would be the actual labor "selling rate". What usually happens, as it does is our shop, is that we install customer supplied parts at our normal labor rate and look at the "long view". Obviously, customer supplied parts are not warranteed and in the event of parts failure, not fitting or not being correct (more common than you would expect) the customer is responsible for all labor costs. The other point to think about is a lot of the times shops can actually supply the parts for the same costs, know about all the other parts you need to install at the same time and will warranty the part.

GMS, Thanks for your insight into the labor / cost in the auto industry. I was not aware of the inter-relationship between parts and labor as it goes to profitability and rate setting. That is not how it works in my industry, so I shouldn't draw an apples to apples comparison. We have several labor "rates" that we deal with when reimbursing a dealer. He has Selling, Contract, Warranty, and Cost rates. In my example I was pointing out that I was willing to pay the highest rate. Cheers,