Don't get the 993 mystique

I've got a 996 C4S and and an 37,000 mile 928 S4 and just drove my first 993 today. A buddy has a 1998 C2 Cab with 26k miles and said take it for a fun run. Nice car, fun car, great air cooled sound with top down but holy crap my 996 would eat it for lunch. It felt "rubbery" and wallowed compared to the 996 C4S. Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it and I'm sure I'd adjust but don't get the the whole 993 mystique other than it was the pinnacle of the original 911. Like it for that nostalgic reason being a Porsche fan but the 996 is light years ahead in turns of a great driving car. Let the public flogging begin........

Had a 993 and have to agree suspension is night and day, at least stock.

On top of that I think the 996 is just a better looking car. I know many disagree with this but that's my honest opinion.

In '99 I decided I was going to buy another Porsche 911, I'd had an SC before and 2 914's. I drove several 993s, coupes, cabs and a C4S. I nearly bought an awesome white C4 993 with 20XXX miles but made the mistake of driving a 996 Aero. It was so much better in every respect I waited a couple of years and went with the 996. No regrets!

I agree, what is the mystique of the 993 Is it because it is the last of the air cooled I've driven one and I like the feel of my 996 much better and also the look of my 996. Porsche people are funny. NO question they are holding their value. I've had a couple of 928s and those are fantastic cars and yet if you recall, they were demonized during the entire time they were in the showrooms next to the 911s. I guess it is just one of life's mysteries

There was a thread a while back about which was a better daily driver: a 993 or a 996. Having owned both, I said the 996 was far and away a better DD. And I bought mine because it is faster and handles better as a DE car. Plus unless my motor grenades, it is cheaper to own and operate. In other words, I don�t think there is a measurable where the 993 beats the 996. That said, there is a visceral connection to the 993 that is lacking in the 996. The smells, the sounds, the general quirkiness of these hand built cars is, IMHO, either immediately appreciated or totally missed. As for visual appeal, that is totally a personal thing. And personally, I think the 996 is borderline fugly. When I satisfy the track bug, I will go back to a 993 immediately. But right now I love my 996.

Personally, I like the 964 best of the air cooled cars. If the 996 were air cooled I don't think there would be so much "hate" towards them and the 993 would be just another 911. I think the purists just like to have something to complain about. Also, I agree that the 996 is a better daily driver car. Creature comforts, heat and AC that works, a little larger, more power and (generally speaking) more reliable. That's just me though.

Had a '96 Arena Red 993. Beautiful car. The 996 is a better driving car. More torque. I get better fuel mileage. The steering wheel is actually in the center of the seat rather than offset (which irritated me every time it drove it). I never got as much leg room I wanted from the 993. I got it because it was the last air cooled Porsche....but have been happier with the 996. Would replace the 996 with an 80's or older before I'd get a 993 again.

Only advantage I see is that some late model 993 have appreciated in value, something a 996, or any newer water cooled P-car, never will.

The stock 993 can be hugely improved upon (relative to a stock 996 say) with the right modifications (starting with suspension) such that the result is truly transformational. A tide in a stock cab is not a good barometer. I had two 996's - one not so good (99) and one that was great (late 01). Unfortunately it takes a lot (I have GT3+ $$) in my 993 to get it there but properly configured these cars deliver a truly visceral experience like no other (subjective of course). Also the US 993's are not geared right (I fixed that and more) but again in the right config and properly tuned the 996 seems tame by comparison : ) Any local 996 owners that would like a ride for a real comparison I'm always happy to oblige.

I'm really surprised that the 993 didn't feel unique. From the second the door slams to the feeling of being in a airplane cockpit. 993 feel quite different from an ordinary road car. 993s are about "the feeling and the sound" not really the performance. (Other then the Turbos). I would confidently say that 90% of us would do faster lap times in a Subaru STi then in our Porsches, but it's not always about the numbers. Every re-design of the 911 is better and faster in every way. Porsche always boast that the new 911 is always "everything we know up to now" <------something like that

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Please explain more fully this quote of yours... I had two 996's - one not so good (99) and one that was great (late 01). Thanks.. whats was the differance???

I purchased a new 996 as soon as it came out. My car was an 07/98 build. It spend a great deal of time in the shop for various issues, electrical glitches, RMS twice, rattles, etc. for the most part I understood these as teething issues for a revolutionary new design (1st water cooled 911 after all). Then at 15k miles the motor detonated and that was it. Given all the other issues I had with the car PCNA was proactive to replace it outright with a brand new 2001. In fact they said if I was willing to wait for a few months I could have the refreshed 2002. My dealer at the time (Barrier Porsche) in Bellevue, WA had a still in plastic Slate Grey on natural charcoal full leather interior (amongst other desirable options) with an $87k sticker I just had to have. It had way more options than my 99 so I had to pony up $5k but it was still a very good deal all around. They even let me move over the factory PSE, aluminum dial gauge cluster, handbrake, gear lever, BBS LM's and integrated K40 I had on the old car. The 2001 was night and day the better car. The build quality was way up, it was just so much tighter and stronger all around. It was a great and tremendously capable car. That said though I could not shake the air cooled bug. The 99 was my 1st Porsche and just felt I missed out on the air cooled experience which to me represented to a great extent the founding principles the company was built upon. The water cooled cars were always going to be around, not so for the air cooled technology. Just before moving to Chicago I sold the 2001 (with 23k on the clock) bought a gorgeous Venetian Blue 87 coupe (had to have a G50). LOVED it. Realized immediatley this car was built by engineers not marketing. Not nearly as capable as the 996 but that didn't matter. You didn't need to wind it up to the same extent you did the new car to really experience driving pleasure in a unique way. I then moved to San Diego and sold the 87 to another Rennlister who flew to Chicago sight unseen jumped in and drove it all the way to Anchoridge! Ho's 1st Porsche also. I just had to have a 993 and could think of nothing else. I spent 6 months looking and finally found my rig. Bone stock 97 C2 Grand Prix White on black 30k miles CA car women owned. That was 8 years ago. I have more than what I paid for the car and then some in it again (most recently $15k for a bad *** Rothsport short ratio gearbox and 996 GT3 Cup LSD). Ridiculous I know...but then again that car is going in the ground with me. By no means to a knock the newer cars as I said I loved mine but it just didn't move me or have the soul my 993 does. To each their own, it is all subjective.

I had a 1978 911 for 13 years before I moved up to a I had a 2002 996 which I loved. I had to sell it a year later though when I moved out of country. Another year later I returned and immediately set out to buy another Porsche. I drove one 993 - all minty and everything - and was very underwhelmed. I found a great MkII 96 and I'm not looking back. I found the 993 wallowy and anemic compared to my 996. It was pretty though....no doubt about hat.

I grew up on 924's, then a few 944's, then a few 944 Turbo's... so water cooled was how I rolled, I dont get the appeal of the older 993, not since the 997 came along and the lines were more traditional.

Rule # 1 - People love what THEY have Rule #2 - When comparing two cars and you ask opinions......... see Rule #1

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Lol.....I can't agree more. I'm actually in a 996 C4S now and really miss my 993. The C4S is a far superior vehicle but it just doesn't capture the true essence of Porsche. 993s feel like they capture everything in Porsches Past. 996s feel like Porsche has decided to step into the present and future. The new 991 feels like everything the 996 and 997 should be but no real feelings of the 911, 964 or 993.

I never knew so many 993 guys stopped by the 996 forum. I think it's great hearing their opinions. I must admit I also stop by their forum now and then. I was a 951 guy for a long time but now am squarely in the 996 camp. As Ish points out I love this car, however I had the option of buying any model under the 991 and decided on this one. Every now and then I see a 993 that really turns my head.

Each generation of the 911 is "better" than the previous generation in many ways. That being said, I'd love to own a 993. I think they are beautiful.

Personally, The 993 is the Holy Grail of air-cooled Porsche design. The sounds, feel, smell, the click of a door latch, it's all there for me. In addition my C4s was a big step up from my 1990 C2 cab. That being said, I'd love a 996 turbo as a DD, and I know a newer GT3 is in my future, but the 993 C4s will be with me forever.

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I read all the 911 forums.....live and learn

I couldn't afford a 993, so I bought a 996. Hope to 'downgrade' one day.

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LMFAO.....true enuff

I think 993's LOOK the best, 996's drive awesome but personally my next P-car will be a 964-2 or a SC

I used to really like the 993 look, now its very dated,as the 997 has a similar but more modern look. If I was going air cooled, the ole 912 or 70 something 911 RS would be my pic!

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Couldn't say it any better. The 993 was the end of an era, the 996 the beginning of a new one. You can't fully compare these 2 models. The 993 is a P in it's purest form, while the 996 is more modern. The modernization and technology changed everything. I would love to own a 993 one day. It is, and always will be, one of the best looking Porsche's in my opinion. offcourse every 911 is beyond gorgeous but this is just.... perfection. : http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...S/DSC09232.jpg

I loved my 996 aero and would only part with it if the right 993 turbo came along.

My 996 stays parked most of the time as I prefer to daily drive my 88 Carrera with 1/4 million miles. The 996 is better in harsh weather conditions like mid July when it's 95 in the shade, or in the rain.. Despite the better handling and performance of the 996 I still prefer the roar of the cooling fan of an AirCooled engine.

I like 993s a lot. But to me they aren't worth the money people are asking for them. Plus, in the Georgia climate, a 996 is a much more pleasurable daily use car.

Hal .... Here is a 993 Myth ! "hand built cars" "That said, there is a visceral connection to the 993 that is lacking in the 996. The smells, the sounds, the general quirkiness of these hand built cars is, IMHO, either immediately appreciated or totally missed." The 993 is no more Hand Built than a 996. Many writers of Porsche history confirm that Porsche production changed with the 993 to a highly automated system learned from studies of Toyota manufacturing and automation of "just-in-time" parts production lines. It is noted in one new book with quotes from Porsche management that the $5000 reduction in price for the 993 from the 964 was due to manufacturing efficiency = "Automation". Another respected author notes the 993 was still in production on the Same assembly line as the early 996. If you want a "hand built" 911 you need to go back to the pre 964 Carrera. I toured the Factory during the production of the 997 and the introduction of Cayman. Even then the "official line" from the tour guide was..." Porsche are hand built!" There are plenty of "hands" involved even today... and Automation mixed in. There is no doubt that the 996 design did bring cost controls and efficiency further. One comment I found interesting was about our "famous" headlights. They were designed to be installed in one minute... think of it ... compared to separate assembly of three lamp units on the older cars. 911's of any series or year are magic in my eyes... but lets stick with fact not Myths.

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Beautiful ...

I'm actually tired of all the comments this plain old Carrera elicits every where I go, especially around here where half the cars on the road are more expensive than mine!

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Not trying to take away anything from your 993, but I can say the same thing about my '99 Carrera 4.

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+1

Interesting timing for this thread. I've always been a 993 fan. An Arena Red TT still tops my list of cars I'd like to add to my garage. I even considered whether I wanted to go the 993 route when I picked up my C4S last summer. Although I wasn't initially a fan of the 911's "fried egg" headlamp cluster when the the 996 Mk1 came to market I always found the 996 to be a beautiful car and a true "911" despite its loss of an air cooled engine. What bothered me wasn't the 911's alleged loss of its round headlamps or air cooled engine; I just disliked that the 911's face was nearly indistinguishable from the Boxster's. The headlight design never offended me per se. I thought it was a poor decision by Porsche corporate to give the two cars the same front end. As for the mystique of the 993, I think it's pretty straight forward: it is the last of the air cooled Porsches and, therefore, a particular era. The 996 was also a significant technological leap (and I mean that in a good way) over the 993 which means, for purists who loathe this sort of thing, the 993 was their car of choice. The reason I find it interesting timing is because I encountered my first bit of 993 "snobery" over the weekend when a 993 owner asked me why I bought a 996 instead of 993, right before throwing a few generic criticisms of the 996 over the fence. If I'd been standing within spitting distance of my car I would have pointed to it and said, "Look at it. The thing speaks for itself. Now, let's go for a drive. I'll lead, you follow." -Eric

I don't understand this distaste for the front end of the 996, being identical to the Boxster I like the front end of the Boxster and 996. They are both great cars, and no question they are related. The Boxster is less expensive, but still maintains Porsche quality, style and performance. I'm not insulted if someone mistakes my 996 for a Boxster A Porsche is a Porsche. When I had my first Porsche, a 914, everybody told me it was a VW. Yes, it was built in the VW facilities, and had parts with the VW logo, but it would kick any VW ***. My 928s were demonized by Porsche purists (snobs), yet, to me it was the epitomy of Porsche innovatin and luxury As far as I'm concerned, a Porsche is a Porsche. OK, maybe not the 924

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I think your mixing issues. There have always been contingents who have criticized Porsche's ties to VW. "The 356, 914, 924...even the 911...all just tarted up VWs." As for even your gentle ribbing about the 924, there wouldn't have been a 944 it weren't for the 924 and I hope you're not suggesting the 944 isn't a real Porsche. Oh, and I've always like the 928, too. It was never a proper 911 replacement but that's a different issue and it doesn't make it any less of a Porsche. My issue with the 996/986 sharing the exact same front end wasn't whether either car was or wan't a Porsche. My issue was with Porsche's philosophy that every Porsche need to look like a 911. The 911 is Porsche's icon. In my humble opinion, no other Porsche should look exactly like it. Share design features? Fine. Closely resemble it even? Fine. Be completely indistinguishable from it except when looking at it from the rear? Ummm...no. I don't understand why you would you take another model (especially one costing 50% or more less) and make it look exactly like the 911? FWIW, I'm also not insulted if someone asks if my car is a Boxster. I also wasn't insulted when people called my TT a tarted up New Beetle (and those comments were closer to correct). It's not about how someone perceives me or my car individually; it's about a design/marketing strategy with which I completely disagree. The Mk1 Cayenne looked like an amorphous 911 on steroids (the current design is much improved). The Panamera looks like it's a 911 that's been put through the rack and has been universally criticized for its rear proportions. Why? Because Porsche unnecessarily dictated that the rear of the car resemble a stretched 911. And, that's exactly what they got...a stretch 911. If you look at Ferrari's current line-up, their cars all have different front ends yet each is instantly identifiable as a Ferrari. Aside from the air cooled 911 purists who seem to forget that Porsche sold cars BEFORE the 911 (and after), is there any question today that a 914, 944, or 928 was a Porsche? -Eric

I have an 02 996 but I think the 964RSR is the finest looking Porsche 911 ever made. I would trade my 996 for one of these in a heartbeat.

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I think you nailed it. For me, overall experience is why I hold on to my car and continue to enjoy it. What makes one product more desirable than another doesn't always have to be what's on paper. Sometimes the experience the user has with something trumps all. +I am not a big fan of the way the 996 looks.

+1 964 most beautiful body 911 ever!.

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IIRC, the 968 was the last hand built Porsche.

Here they are next to each other. Both have nice lines. Pls excuse the ugly black box SUV in the background.

There is something to be said for the appeal of wooden floorboards, Mezger dry sump motors and the sound of the door closing on a 964/993. That having been said, if you want "mystique" ... http://www.flachbau.com/1994s.php The single most beautiful 911 ever produced.

Somehow I think we are starting to split hairs on the topic of �hand built.� Of course there was more automation involved with the 993 than there was with the 964 just as there was more with the 964 than the Carrera, etc., etc. As for the $5k price drop, it was always my understanding that was because no one was buying the 964 and they desperately needed sales. Plain and simple. Putting the 993 in contexts with the 996, remember that the infamous Japanese consultants were brought in during the time the 964 was being built to completely change Porsche�s planning and manufacturing techniques. They may have had some level of impact on how the 993 was made, but probably more in terms of JIT than anything else. Their goal was to max automate production of the 996 and Boxster. To the best of my knowledge they were not directly involved with the 993 which was probably already put to bed at this point in time.

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This is also what I have read- All in all-It's probably pointless to nail down the exact ratio of "handmade" over "automated" production between 993 and 996-but there is no argument when you compare build quality side by side in person-

The ONLY thing I miss from the aircooled 911 Porsches is the way the doors sound when you close them. I am quite surprised that has changed, it bothers me every time I close the door, but I love the way they drive compared to all of the pre 996.

On automation, people have bad days. Automation does not as often, and when it does it is known, fixed and all bad production is removed and reworked if possible. No one has to admit they had a bad day and fess up to bad parts that THEY made, the machine just takes the blame. I'll take automation over hand built any day.

I owned a 993 a few years before buying my 996 and agree with most of the posters that the 996 is a better all around car. When I had the 993 and the 996 came out I was not impressed with the new styling, in fact, I disliked it and was disappointed that Porsche made their flagship car look like the entry model, the Boxster. It wasn't until I drove a 996 when I realized the technology advancements and IMO the superior driving experience. The 993 is still an awesome vehicle and has a certain sound and style that is timeless. The 996 equiped with the aero package is far better looking than a standard 996, the 997 even better and the 991 is even better than the 997. I love older sports cars from a distance but enjoy the newer models for sheer driving experiences. Again, just my opinion....

I agree as well. Love the engine sound in the 993 but I much prefer the 964 over the 993. The 993 wide body is very nice though but the head lights are awful. They say the 911 always skips a generation in looks with the majority of people liking the generation that I don't.

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I share this same sentiment....the rear 2/3 of the 993 is beautiful, but the front end looks cheap and pieced together IMO. It is still a great car, and the overall lines on the TT are incredible, but for me, the 964 is the best looking air-cooled P-car. Can't help but say it, the headlights on the 996 are one of the best features...I really wish Porsche had stayed with that theme and evolved it vs. ditching it....

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That's a truly beautiful Carrera 4, it's actually pretty rare to see Gen1 996s on the road around Silicon Valley.

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Thanks! Ever since I bought it I have been routinely stopped by strangers who want to ask questions about it. My favorite was when I pulled into a hotel valet lane and a woman stepped in between me and my wife to talk about the car while her husband stood off to the side staring. Luckily I have a very patient wife. I'm really going to miss it when the car is gone.

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Well put, i am actually in the same boat as you. Love the 996 mk2 headlights and the 964 more than the 993 A good exhaust and intake make the 996 come alive. And 996 c4s cars look awesome. IMHO.

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How great is it that you can buy a 996 soooo cheap and get exactly what you want?

You know what? Every Porsche is a head turner - they are that much prettier than the vast majority of cars on the road. They're different. They're special. They go fast - any of 'em, plenty fast for typical traffic conditions. I chose a 993 because there's a retro streak in me and a desire for a tight car you wear rather than sit in. But I wouldn't kick any of the later variants (Boxsters too!) out of the garage.

I agree with you Ed, but the vast majority of 911 owners (from early 911's, to Carrera's thro 993's) regard Boxsters as pariah poor boys and want very liitle to do with them, let alone own one.... Ahhh well,....

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Agree completely!

I like the 993 and everything it represents. I only chose the 996 because it was a more comfortable car for me for daily commuting duty. But if I had my choice I'd have the 996 for daily use and the 993 for weekend/track duty. I do have to say though that the one that stirred my soul the most was the 964 C2 that I test drove a few years ago. I don't know what it was but everything about that car made me smile for weeks afterwards. The 993 was very engaging but there was something different about the 964 that made it feel even more alive. Unfortunately the one I drove was a little rough cosmetically which is why I didn't go for it but I always remember that car.

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I never understood this. The cars share body panels, suspension, engines, interiors and materials. The only differences I have found include engine placement, engine displacement and a few suspension upgrades on the 911 to allow for more adjustability. IMHO Porsche used the wrong approach to market the Boxster/Cayman, they should have never used the word entry level. I considered the 911 including the 993C2S and 997S but the Spyder ended up being exactly what I wanted. It is interesting how we all come away with different opinions on these cars. I drove a very well maintained track prepped 964 and although it communicated everything it felt very antiquated and didn't stir my soul at all. The 993's appearance is enough to stir my soul but I have never driven one and judging by what others are saying here I don't think it would be the right car for me as far as the overall experience goes. As someone mentioned, the best car will always be the one you currently own and that makes sense.

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I've always heard it this was the 944 that is the poor man's Porsche and the Boxster was a chicks car or for the type of guy who owns a hair salon. off topic but on topic about the boxster remark You Tube

Great post, and every9one is so civil. Well, except for that last Boxter comment, and yes, they are for women only. In 2004 I test drove a '96 993 and a '00 996, and mainly because my 6'3" frame could not get comfortable in the 993, I came home with the water pumper. I loved them both, but never regretted my purchase. As noted by an earlier poster, I think both models require a few modifications before they really deliver obscene levels of motoring joy. The 996's must haves include exhaust and intake mods, and mine is much happier with replacement "motorsport" clutch and single mass flywheel. So equiped, they sound and drive more like the "more viceral" Porsches of yore. That said, I dream of a G50 track toy with lots of fiberglass and a race motor.

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Was that really Porsche's marketing approach or just kind of a common sense market rationalization based on the fact that, at the time, Porsche had two models and the Boxster was the cheapest model? Doesn't logic seems to dictate that the cheaper of the two is the "entry level" car. Isn't that true of any automaker though; their cheapest model is the "entry level" vehicle? A base Boxster costs $50K before options. If the Boxster is today's "poor man's Porsche" then I think most people would be satisfied with being poor. Everything's relative...but I guess that's beside the point. As for any similarities between the 986 and 996 upsetting the 911 crowd I don't think the issue is unique to Porsche or the 911 and I'm not sure why it was/is a surprise to anyone. Ask most 328i owners if they'd mind if their car came stock with an M bumper and I think the universal answer will be "bring it on!" Ask an M3 owner and they're apt to respond quite differently. I think the same would be true of AMG owners, Corvette owners or any model of vehicle with a significant enthusiast following. If Chevy sold a $30K car that, in all respects, looked exactly like a C6 except from the rear, I think it would confuse and upset a lot of the Corvette faithful. Remember, the front end of the Mk1 986 wasn't just similar to the Mk1 996. They were pretty much exactly the same if not indistinguishable. Hell, I think the issue even applies in more obscure markets. While most people probably couldn't care less about Volvos, I can tell you that many enthusiasts of Volvo's R model cars were up in arms over Volvo's decision to discontinue its performance model and instead release an "R-design" line of cosmetic and performance accessories for its next generation models. The move was perceived by many to dilute the value of the R brand (as if the market even knows what an R is). I'm really not sure why it surprises anyone that applying a carbon copy 911 front end to a Boxster upset many 911 enthusiasts. I'm not even suggesting that it should upset you (or anyone) but I still maintain that THIS was Porsche's marketing failure -- not with whether or not they called the Boxster an "entry level" vehicle (which it is/was). -Eric

If the 996 and boxster are indistinguishable (apart from the rear), and the 996 and 997 are pretty much indistinguishable except for the headlights ... uhh The 996 and the boxtser are very distinguishable from every angle .. except from a low to ground / head on look. About the 993 ... Beautiful looking car, with some nice sculpted lines. Performance wise, it would be difficult for it to compete with modern sports coupes. Still a unique ride. Not my choice of an everyday ride though. Someone posted a beautiful pic of a 964 RSR a few posts ago. That has to be my fav. Porsche design as well!

Discussion starts and stops with the M96 engine for me. Seen one too many which have "done blowed up". Any air cooled I can fix out of my spares.

Yeah, Ill be pissed if my engine blows up on me. Until then ... Vroom Vroom!

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The best handling Porsche I have ever driven is the Boxster Spyder. A perfectly tuned suspension, a simply amazing car.