FLUSHING BRAKES..ABS?

i have done searches and there does not seem concencus on flushing of brakes with abs? i need to do the brake flush and have 1 litre of porsche fluid. there is a write up of the sequence and that seems no problem. questions? do i ignore the abs "issue" and just bleed it conventionally? when i start at further most point....do i flush about 250ml at that point to make sure the line is flushed. do i do that at all bleeding points? thanks

I changed to ATE Blue and flushed RR, LR, RF, LF and would not move to next caliper till blue was flowing. Not sure if that helps....but if the fluid is a diff color that is best way. Other than that, I am probably not much help (sorry). But my next flush is with blue again so I will keep an eye on your thread so I know what to do if the fluid color is the same.

Hey Spikes, I just flushed my system with a vacume bleeder and have a good strong pedal. The shop I often deal with suggested I pump the brake pedal a few times while bleeding the system which I did. I used ATE blue brake fluid so I just bleed it until the blue brake fluid came out. 250ml seems about right though. The front do not need as much. Remember to do the two bleeders at each caliper. Good luck

Hey Dell, Ate makes the same blue fluid in a conventional color. That's what I am going to use next time. That way I can be sure that all the fluid is change.

I don't think bleeding of brake w ABS is any different than normal brakes. At least I don't do anything differently. I know some people worry about the fluid inside the ABS pump or something. To bleed, start w the rear passenger side, then driver side and move to the fronts. Bleed enough fluid to see bubbles come out. You should get about 1/2 cup of fluid from each wheel at the most. 1L should be plenty w 1/4 of it left after you bleed. You can buy a bleeder or have someone else pump your brakes. To me, removing the wheel and jacking up the car is the part that's most time consuming. I suppose you can do it w the wheel on but I haven't tried. It's a good time to clean the inside of your wheels and inspect pad wear/hose conition, tire condition, rotors.

Wow! Good to know. I think I will swap every change then to see the color (or lack of it). As long as the fluid is identical and the only diff is the coloring, then I am going that route. THANKS FOR THE TIP!!!!!

yea i can confirm that. only the color is different...

thanks for the advise....i will do backs with at least 250 ml each

no problem ....thanks for the help..

Dave, where did you get your ATE fluid from?

Hi Dell, I purchased my blue fluid locally. I am trying to recall the name of ate's conventional colored fluid but I am having a mental block. I believe it has numbers in the name. Again it is the same formula as the blue. I bet if you called PelicanParts they would have it. [phone removed] If I find the name I'll post it.

We have ATE blue and gold..... We sell these all day long..... link to page with both -Eli

Thanks for the link Eli! Any reason why the Gold is $.80 cheaper than blue?

It's our discount for coming back for the next can..... -Eli Really: I don't know, it's just priced according to what we purchase them for..... But I still like my first response....

Good one Eli!

Actually, there is. With ABS, you will not get all of the brake fluid out unless you "activate" the ABS system. If you just bleed the brakes the normal way, a certain amount of old brake fluid will remain trapped in the system. The Porsche Dealer or a mechanic can do that with PS2, but I am looking into a way to do it without paying so much for that tool.

First, I personally have no plans to change or flush my brake fluid unless the brakes need work taht results in opening the system. But for those of you concerned there is a fair amount of brake fluid within the ABS accumulator and the only way I know of to get it to flow out is to jack up the rear of the car, C2, put it in gear with the engine running a let the Trac "portion" of the PSM do the rest.

Eeer, brake fluid needs to be bled every 2-3 yrs per service schedule. I've done 3 brake fluid changes now and never done any special bleed with ABS. Is the ABS procedure mandatory? There are tons of cars with ABS so if this is true, all bleeds need special factory tool to activate ABS.

AND THEY ARE OFF.... this is where the confusion comes in...as i said, i read a lot of different view points and it varies with cars in gear...wheels turning...psm activated...etc when bleeding/flushing. until there is a proven way to activate the abs .... - is it a waste of time to do the flush without activating the abs? - how much fluid is in the abs pump? - how does the fluid come from the reservior to the caliper when flushing without going through the abs pump? thanks

There's a difference between bleeding the brakes and flushing the system. If you're just bleeding the brakes the ABS will have no impact, but if you're flushing the system you will leave some residual fluid unless it's activated.

I don't think it is a waste of time to bleed without activating the abs. However, I do think that it is a worthwhile effort to flush your system once in awhile (and far sooner than recommended in the Porsche manual) if you drive your car "in a spirited manner" or track it (I have done both). Unless you do a complete flush (i.e., getting ALL of the fluid out, including whatever is trapped in the ABS), then your new fluid is compromised by the old fluid that is left in the system. Using the Porsche shop tools is the easy (and perhaps most sensible) way to do this. However, I know that there are ways to fool the ABS system without the fancy tools. I am in the process of learning how to do that myself. I use castrol SRF brake fluid, and I flush the entire system at least once each year, but I still bleed the brakes between track events (although I now have a race car so I probably will not take the 996 to the track anymore). What is the point of using such a high performance (i.e., expensive) brake fluid if you leave some degraded/lower performance fluid in the system? Just my two cents.

Agreed, although I wouldn't say that the ABS would have no impact when you are just bleeding the brakes. I would instead say that there are still reasons to bleed your brakes even if you cannot activate the ABS. In the end though, we are really saying basically the same thing.

My 92 LS400 has additional brake fluid bleed valves located at the ABS pump and trac control assembly. The one time in 100,000 miles I had the fluid drained the Lexus technician was not aware of the extra two bleed valves.

you just turned that 996 high performance machine into a boulevard cruiser. TRAITOR! just kidding

Yes, but I will be back when I learn how to drive really well. After writing this post, I noticed the arrogance that slipped through. I should have said "Yes, but I will be back when I learn how to drive." I may come back to the 996 platform for the track, but it most likely will take the form of a cup car or a GT3. By the time I will be ready, I bet they will be more affordable.

Affordable and GT3 shouldn't be in the same sentence.... -Eli

I tried that in my race car days.... once you use blue, I found that anything you put through will be blue for a long time. Just my experience. You def won't see a clear change to the yellow.

Suggestions Lee?

Lee, let's see that avatar change with some of your new mods..... You can't live that day out forever.... -Eli

Good Idea Eli...I think there will be some track day pix from Sunset posted in the next few days. Re: ATE Blue (Dell): You just have to get enough fluid through the system to flush. The first time you change to blue, refill the rez after each corner and write down the volumes. That's my best guess. Maybe someone else knows better.

You can always go gold on the ATE...... -Eli

Not sure I follow Eli......

ATE has blue and gold. I was responding to the idea of alternating them. It doesn't work b/c the blue just stains everything (in my experience).

Maybe we should all go back and re-read our posts I thought we discussed that already? But if I used the gold, would I see the dilution of the blue to indicate that I have bled the brakes sufficiently to that point?

My experience is no, the effect was too subtle. YMMV

anybody with answers to the following... until there is a proven way to activate the abs .... - is it a waste of time to do the flush without activating the abs? - how much fluid is in the abs pump? - how does the fluid come from the reservior to the caliper when flushing without going through the abs pump? thanks

No Not certain, but it is not a great volume. The effect of the trapped fluid would depend upon how bad the condition of the fluid is. If the old fluid is not too bad, then not much of an effect. If it is really bad, then it is the weak link, at least it would seem Think of it like a side reservoir. It does not "block" the fluid to the reservoir. It is just an area where the a relatively small volume of old fluid can remain trapped unless ABS is activated.

thanks for the reply..i think you have answered some of my concerns... let us know when you have figured out the abs activation for flushing

Yes, I brought this up from the dead. I just ordered a pressure bleeder for about $50. I wonder if it is such a big deal not to flush the ABS reservoir, isn't this like changing the oil without worrying about the oil in the cooler circuit? It gets diluted and flushed eventually.

That would be my guess too. Caveat could be that the fluid in the ABS reservoir would not move from there, and therefore never get diluted. That's probably a pretty long shot, esp. if you activate ABS every now and then.

Yeah, I'll just take it out on the next snowy day and hit the brakes. I don't know what California peeps would do, if by chance I activate my ABS on dry pavement with those monster brakes I'm about to crash anyway...

I just used the motive bleeder to bleed brakes, had ATE Blue in the reservoir and was swithcing to ATE Gold (Type 200), even after running almost 2 L of Gold through all 8 bleeder valves there is still a light blue tint to the fluid. I could distinguish between the new gold and old blue by the shade of the fluid. It was much more evident going to blue from gold that I was getting the new fluid at the bleeder valve.

I decided to stay with the gold fluid. I figure it is easy enough to bleed at least twice a year. Have you used the motive on the clutch hydraulics? I hear it is a pain to do...

You do it the same way, so it is not that hard to do (although, without a lift, reaching the bolt is a "little" challenging. The only problem I had was that I do not put fluid in the motive (so that it stays clean), and I drained too much fluid and put air in the system the first time(s).

ouch. I wonder if the Motive can be cleaned with methanol... I expect it can.

Suggest you check out RennTech for info on bleeding brakes. Some folks over there claim that the traditional pump-the-pedal method of bleeding the brakes can damage seals in the master cylinder. I'm not claiming that this is true or false, just bringing it to your attention. FWIW, I use the Motive pressure bleeder and ATE Super Blue. Never had any problems.