Avoid Brandywine Porsche

I lost my engine (or at least a valve on number 2) back at the end of May. I trailered the car back to my local indie and started shopping around for a replacement engine. I'd read a discussion on 6speedonline.com about engine pricing and one of the participants works for Brandywine. He indicated that the price in reman'd engines was about 6800.00. I contacted him via P.M. and he informed me that the engine price was 7500.00 plus a core charge, plus shipping. I was also informed that I would have to wire the total, including the refundable core charge, to Brandywine's bank. I was a bit taken aback by the concept of wiring that kind of money with no realistic recourse if there were a problem. I was also concerned about how the core charge would be refunded and the fact that they would have to cut me a check and there was no indication how long that would take them to do nor any gaurantee they would actually cut it. However, I made arrangements to have that done once I had the bank information and the total charge. I repeatedly emailed and called my contact at Brandywine. I made it very clear to him that my 911 was a daily driver and that I needed the engine as soon as possible. He kept reassuring me that the engine had been ordered and that it was going to come in very soon. In fact, each time I contacted him, he gave me a new arrival date. As you can see from the email thread pasted in this post, he assured me that the engine had been ordered and that it would be in on a certain date. I called the dealership again on July 5 and reached a different parts guy and asked him if he could check on the order. He couldn't find my name in the computer, much less an order for an engine. He connected me to the parts manager who identified himself as Rick. Rick initially put the blame on me for not having wired the money. I tried to explain that I could have understood that if the parts guy had told me that they were waiting on payment before ordering the motor *and* if he had not *repeatedly* assured me that the engine was on its way and would be in on this day and that day. Rick put me on the speakerphone with the parts guy that I'd been talking to for almost three weeks and asked me to repeat my assertion that I'd been repeatedly told the engine was on its way. I did and Rick very pointedly asked parts guy whether he had told me that the engine was enroute. After a very pregnant pause, parts guy manned up and admitted that he had been telling me that the engine had been ordered. Rick told me that he would call me back, which he did. When Rick called back, he said that he would order the engine the next day but only after I wired over ten thousand dollars to them. He didn't offer to expedite the shipping at their expense or anything else. In fact, he didn't even offer an apology. He repeatedly demanded that I send them the money via wire before the engine would be ordered. Furthermore, he said that I could not use a credit card to pay the core charge in contradiction to parts guy's statements to me. Needless to say, I was less than enthusiastic about sending that much money with no recourse to a business that had demonstrated their lack of reliability and trustworthiness. I decided to rethink things and ended up calling Sunset Porsche. They ordered the motor that day, without me providing a bank wire. In fact, the engine was ordered on Friday, July 6, arrived at Sunset and was shipped to me on July 12. The difference in price was so worth it to not have to deal with Brandywine. I'm also concerned about the way in which Brandywine qouted me a flat freight rate of five hundred dollars to ship from PA to SC. Interestingly, Sunset's actual shipping charge was $460 to ship from Oregon to SC. Hmmmm. Sort of makes me suspect that Brandywine was bumping their shipping charges to compensate for the price reduction. I have removed some of the identifying information out of respect for the parts guy manning up and admitting that he'd been blowing smoke and to ensure that no private financial information gets out on the internet. Its threaded backwards so you'll need to read from bottom to top. ************************************************************************ **** -----Original Message----- From: [them] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:06 PM To: [me] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the arrival date is for its arrival here at Brandywine Porsche, the VA was a typo, sorry about that, yes that is correct you can use your cc to pay for the core charge, thank you [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:36 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Thanks for the update. Is the arrival date for delivery to me or to you in PA? Also, the engine is being shipped to South Carolina, not Virginia. Please double check that the engine is going to the right location. As I understand it, I can wire you the eight thousand dollars and give you a credit card for the 2325.47 core charge, correct? If so, I'll have the money wired today and call you after lunch with the credit card for the core. Please let me know. [me] -----Original Message----- From: [them] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:29 AM To: [me] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the motor is on its way it will most likely will arrive on Monday of next week Wednesday at the absolute latest, I understand your situation and we are working to get this wrapped up as fast as possible, when shipping engines the trucking companies take extra care because they are shipping flammable liquids, I will keep you posted on the shipping, the total cost will be $10325.47 this price includes the engine, core charge and shipping, the brake down is as follows. engine = $7500 Core charge = $2325.47 shipping one way to VA $500 w/shipping insurance let me know if you have any questions, thanks again [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:46 AM To: [them] Subject: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. Importance: Low [them], Please verify for me that the engine is enroute. I need a projected arrival date so I can get the car in the rotation at my shop. I also still don't have a total price so I have not been able to wire the money. I'm sorry if I seem like I am bugging you about this but the downtime of my car, since it is my only car, is pretty critical. I want to make sure that there are no avoidable delays. Thanks. [me] ***** This message was sent wirelessly from my mobile handset. ----- Original Message ----- From: [them] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:37 am To:[me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], sorry about the delay, she came in a little later then expected, the info is as followed, let me know if you have anymore questions, thank you [bank info] l Message----- From: [me] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:10 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Any news? [me] _____ From: [them] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:28 AM To: [me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the dealerships accountant had left early on Friday and will be returning today around 10am, she is the only one with the account info, as soon as she gets in I will pass along the wire transfer info to you, if you could provide me with the shipping address I will get the shipping price for you, thank you [me] [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:24 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Looks like this is the way I'm gonna go. Let me know what you need to get it ordered. Also, give me a price on a clutch kit and a can of coolant. [me] _____ From:[them] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:41 PM To: [me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], I looked into the pricing on these engines about 2 months ago and I was under the same impression, its seems that Porsche has increased the price of there engines and dropped the price of the cores, but I have confirmed that this pricing is correct, I would only extend this discounted price to my fellow 6-speeders, and yes I an engine installed by an independent shop can be warrantied but it only covers the engine not labor or anything else just the engine, thanks again for the inquiry let me know if I can help you out in any other way, thanks [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:06 PM To: [them] Subject: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Wanted to touch base with you again and make sure you'd seen the response that I sent to you by p.m. on 6speedonline.com. Specifically, you indicated the motor pricing was 7500 but I was under the impression that the reman'd motors were 6800 and change. Can you confirm the pricing. Also, can you verify that the two year warranty on the engine applies regardless of who installs (i.e. an independent shop). Thanks. [me] (aka viper501) [Me], the reman engine lists for $9304.96 your price would be $7500, at this price i will need the core back, at the time of the order i will have to charge you for the core, the core charge will be $2325.47, i can determen the shipping for you if you provide me with an address, thanks again [me] Cheers [Them]

Thats a very long post, can you summarize.......

WOW, that sucks! Brandywine is now off my list of dealers to do business with in the future. I considered buying one of their cars a little over 2 years ago. Glad I didn't. Whew! < wipes brow >

Michael. Short story is they blew a lot of sunshine up my posterior, got called on it, then gave me the f.o. They cost me a lot of time, money and aggravation.

I've always had a bad feeling about them... won't touch them, even though they're local.

I've actually had good experiences with the guys at Brandywine. Sorry to see this happen to you.

I'm always cautious about commenting on these sorts of things because they invariably have one side of the story without access to....as Paul Harvey says...."the rest of the story". But giving you the credit of acknowledging that what you've posted is true....this is a terrible way for a large company such as Brandywine to do business. I also find it curious that you would have been willing to wire transfer the money like that. Usually, on any order for a large ticket item costing thousands of dollars....a reputable company would simply ask you for a $1,000 or more deposit to ensure that you're not some flake, and have some sort of liquidated damages policy that gives them the right to keep a part or all of the up-front money you've posted. Sunset did it right...and that is the way it's supposed to be done....more credit to Sunset and more reason to do business with them. (They're my first choice anyhow) I find it very disturbing that a company with Brandywine's history and reputation...would process an order like this. From my personal perspective...there were a number of flags that would have caused me to cancel the order long before you did..... and let them know my feelings about their business practices. Totally unacceptable business protocols under the scenario you have posted.

I spent ALOT of money at B-wine that is until Justin left. After he left that craphole went straight into the toilet.

What a terrible story! Sorry to hear that but thanks for the heads up for anyone looking to do business with them. Don't recall if it was here or on a couple of other boards but Brandy has had several other issues as well and that is not the way a good business should be run. Hope everything works out for you and stay away from them from now on. -Ernesto

scary story....fantastic paper trail. Good for you. Pan away. I am floored that they didn't offer to assist you further once they admitted they were in the wrong. I would imagine the 6'er got some heat....especially on the price situation. It does not seem as though you were going to get hit with the bigger bill down the road and that the discount was kind of "off the record". Oh well. Lesson learned. I think I bought a hat from them once......no issues....lol. Best of luck with your "new" engine.....drive it well. Best, J

Reputation? Ask them why they were banned from Rennlist about a year or two ago. I seem to remember them having similar "problems" on a few other boards too.

if you want parts from dealers, buy from sunset and suncoast. otherwise, you are taking a risk period. i dont konw about engine, but i have NEVER found any dealer who can even come close to suncoast in part pricing, pads, rotors, misc.

there are always two sides to a story but it seems that you ended up with some kind of rogue employee - sucks. However, I did buy my car from them last year and found them great to deal with. Maybe it's a difference betwen the parts guys and sales guys?

LVDell - That's a great point. It's not the company that performs well or disappoints its customers; it's the people who work for that company. It was Justin who provided the great customer service, and it just so happened that he worked for Brandywine. BTW over the years there have been many kudos given to Justin from members of this forum.

100% of everything I buy comes now from either Sunset (OR) and Suncoast (FL). And should it be a "track related" item I use TRG (Austin is GREAT!!!), CDOC, and OG. That's the extent of my list.

Thanks for posting this info. I am considering a car from them now and it gives me pause to seriously consider how they do business. Pete

Viper, sounds like your experience was a nightmare. I didn't purchase from Brandywine, but I've had my car serviced by them. Shortly after I got my car (from Isringhausen), I purchased an OEM SSK from Brandywine and had them install it. They additionally replaced a section of my 3M clearbra and removed the Lexan shields from the headlights. Pricing and install were flawless and I had no problems - this was well over a year ago. I did ask them to order a thicker wheel for me through and dealt with Jay in their Performance Parts area - despite multiple calls, the part never came in and I never received a call with any status update. So, I gave up on that one. But overall, my experience has been positive with them.

One of the reasons they were banned was for creating multiple fake accounts and posting their (fake) experiences with the BW parts department...

Now if that doesn't tell you how unethical they are, then nothing will.

Thanks for sharing that bit of info. Enough said.

Requiring a wire transfer instead of a credit card would have been a huge red flag for me, I would have ended the discussion right there. Using a credit card gives you some recourse if they totally flake or try to rip you off.

Yup, especially considering their bank account is situated in Nigeria.

I have to wonder what they imagined they were accomplishing by misleading you over and over. They probably didn't know about your legal expertise. When you commented on B'fest about your engine saga, I had no idea you were really having to purchase a new engine. Sorry that has happened. How did you lose the valve?

The only good thing I can say about Brandywine is that they are very prompt to work on your car when you drop it off without calling first. But I'm now finished dealing with them. Anytime I got an estimate, it was honestly always about twice as much when I'd go to collect the car. They BS'd me about every performance part I've ever bought. 1.GIAC software upgrade, I was told it would add at least 20-25 HP and it would be just as fast as the 3.6 996. 2. Muffler bypass pipes add 25 HP 3. Cat Bypass pipes add 25 HP 4. I was given a price of $199 over the phone for my B&M SSK. Then when I called to back to let them know I wanted that done, it was bumped to $499 I believe. Which then I had to argue that I was told $199 earlier. (By the same guy none the less!!!) 5. Fabspeed intake. No drama whatsoever actually. I haven't gone there now in over two years, other than to just look at the cars on a nice sunday afternoon.

I'd rank Park Place in Dallas right up there with Suncoast and Sunset in quality of service, not necessarily in price however. Randy, the parts manager at Park Place, is an avid PCA track guy and knows his stuff. The knowledge and professionalism of their parts staff is second to none. When I lived in Dallas, they serviced my car. Even though I didn't buy it there, they'd always hand wash the car and provide a free loaner... even apologize when they didn't have a Porsche available and had to give me a Benz. I've dealt with the guys at Suncoast a dozen or so times and have always been pleased with their prices and professionalism (ok, they screwed up an order once but they made it right). however, the last time I called, a guy from another department was answering the phone to help out. He was upfront in admitting that he didn't really know the parts end of the business. After fumbling for 5-10 minutes to answer my questions on gt2 rear brake ducts, he took my number and told me someone would call me back. A week later, I'm still waiting for the phone call. They're obviously short-handed and need to hire some more help. When my indy ordered gt3 suspension parts to install on my car, PCNA screwed up the order and shipped the wrong parts. Unfortunately, they didn't have the right parts in stock and couldn't fix their error in time for my car to be ready for an event I planned to attend the following weekend. I called Suncoast, Sunset, and a few others looking to have the right parts shipped overnight to my indy. I explained my desparation and received a curteous "Sorry, we don't have that in stock." The guys at Park Place didn't have the parts in stock either. But the guy spent about 20 minutes on the phone with me while he searched the inventory of the dealers in North America and found a dealer in NJ with the right parts. He gave me the contact info and I called the NJ dealer and had the parts shipped. The guy at Park Place CLEARLY went above and beyond the call of duty when the others didn't. What makes the story even more impressive is that he didn't gain anything by helping me out. If he didn't volunteer to search dealer inventories, I wouldn't have even known that the parts departments have that capability.

Viper501, Just curious, how's you blow your engine??

Engine was cruising along at 80 in the interstate when the car started running roughly, as if I was going over the edge rumble strips but I wasn't. Check engine light starts flashing too. I pulled off the interstate and car died as soon as I came off the gas and put the clutch in. Was able to nurse it to the Porsche dealer in Kingsport, TN (Rick Hill Imports). Left it there about 8 p.m. and dropped the key in their service box. They called with a report that the number two cylinder had no compression and that they believed it was a bent valve. They qouted 10k and change for a new engine installed. I was a bit leery of spending that kind of money out of town with a dealer I had no experience with so I flatbedded her back home and had the local dealer evaluate her. They came to the same conclusion but were not certain it was a valve but were certain that there was zero compression on number 2. The 'great' part about my dealer was that they initially qouted me 18k to replace the engine, with over 30 hours of labor for the job. I called B.S. on them and they dropped it to 16k and finally to 14k but that was "the best we can do because it is very labor intensive." I have come to learn that there have been other valve spring failures on some cars. Given the fact that it was one cylinder and the fairly acute nature of the problem (in other words it wasn't something that had been progressively worsening) and that the car would run but not well and wouldn't idle, it was obviously nothing catastrophic like the IMS failure. I also wasn't hearing anything bangin' around like I would expect if the cylinder liner failed.

Dwayne, thanks for the condolences. I wish that Porsche would stand up and eat some of this as BMW has done with the S54 engine failures.

The fact that viper501 had a bad experience with a local dealer (Brandywine Porsche) is important to those of us who value dealer reputation and the personal experiences of our online colleagues. I'm always thankful that people take the time to post their personal stories - both good and bad. Thanks, Viper, for sharing your experience with us, and I hope things are resolved successfully to your satisfaction so that you can get back on the road soon. I do have one suggestion, though, mainly because I think it's often unfair to say "don't ever deal with these people because I had a bad experience with them." Instead of a thread title like "Avoid Brandywine Porsche," it might be more informative just to entitle it "Had Real Bad Experience at Brandywine Porsche." This lets the reader(s) decide whether what we hear (both the good reports and bad reports) should guide us to do business with the company or to avoid them. For example, I read one thread where an order for floor mats was apparently mishandled and the writer had a fit (rightly so) about the way he was treated and slammed the business with a "never buy from these people" kind of title on the thread. I think that's pretty extreme, based on a screw-up of a floor mat order. I'm not excusing the company he ordered the floor mats from, but all businesses make mistakes - the good businesses know how to correct them and rebuild the customer relationship when they happen in order to earn back the customer's respect and loyalty. I personally had a good experience with Brandywine when I purchased a Boxster from them and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another from them. I have not, however, had any service work done there, as I prefer to have that done by a Porsche dealer who's much closer to home. Viper's experience admittedly gives me a reason to worry about their service/parts operation.

If you look over at 6speedonline, there are additional posts regarding peoples personal experiences with Brandywine.

Thanks for the info....

It astounds me that in this day of the internet where inormation can be shared so quickly and to such a relatively large audience, that all Dealers aren't extra vigilant to prevent customer dissatisfaction. This forum has a large number of members and I can't imagine the harm done to the reputation of Brandywine from this one thread.

Yeah, they are "toast" around here now.

On a recent BMW posting ( http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8511302-1.html ) an owner complained loudly about a dealership experience. I asked him to name the dealer. Not sure what he was afraid of, but he wussed out and wouldn't do it. It's important that poor quality dealers are exposed on these boards - they read these posts, and I have to believe take them seriously. They can't be all too pleased when they're publically blasted, especially when it's clearly deserved. By exposing poor dealers with questionable business practices, we're providing a critically importance service.

This was the point of my post. It chaps my behind when a dealership behaves this way, or has an employee who does. The real kicker was the total screw you attitude taken by the parts manager when his employee admitted that he'd lied to me, repeatedly. And if Brandywine wants to take legal issue with me, I'm more than prepared to defend myself, seeing how that is what I do, and counterclaim against them.

I would doubt very much that they will take you to court. It would only bring attention to an issue that they would just as soon sweep under the rug.

I couldn't agree more. Dealers must really hate the internet. In the old days they could do their thing without fear of it having any major repercussions, regardless of how egrigious the act. I was just reading over at the Corvette forum where there are several GM Dealers still asking $5K over MSRP for C6s. Imagine how happy these Dealers are when the forum Dealers offer the same car for near invoice.

so here's my story which i posted on other forum- minor purchase but still no product or response to my many emails last week. monday 7/8 bought B&M short shifter from Brandywine via ebay- good price + $12.50 shipping- paid immediately via pay pal- Next morning i get email saying they need minimum of $40 to ship item that they can't even ship to west coast for $12.50 much less to HI. Sent emails over next 4 days questioning the shipping since the ebay offer showed set shipping price- offered to pay us postal rates but said $40 to ship this one item was too much, even to Hawaii. No response to any of my 4 emails- started a pay pal dispute- said i wanted item shipped as shown on ebay or my $ refunded. no response to that either so far. Thurday 7/12 finally called Brandywine and spoke to Brian. His name was on email i received though he said he did not send me any email, didn't know anything about request for more $ and had not seen any of my emails sent to them- said it must have been the parts guys who used his name. He told me the short shift item was shipped -couldn't give me any date or shipping numbers as shipping guy was out. i've not received anything yet as of 7/.15- waiting to see if it will come early next week or if i need to call again. It is inexcusable that none of my emails to the parts folks from monday thruough thursday were responded to, the pay pal item was not responded to. I hate this aggrevation over a small $135 item.

if the listing didn't say the max distance that 12.50 shipping charge covers, they should honor it even if i want them to ship it to mars. plus, you gave them an out. they can just refund $$$. "the shipping guy is out" that's is the worst excuse i have heard. when my employees give me that sh*t, i fire them on the spot and i have done that many times. so if the shipping guy dies tomorrow, the entire brandywhine enterprise closes it's door? have they not heard fail-safe? every piece of info must have backup, if A dies, B takes over, if B dies, C takes over. simple business practice. if my wife dies tomorrow, i sure as hell know where to find baby food for my daughter. i am not gonna tell her geeze, sorry, ma died, you are on your own. what a load of fk. the correct answer would be "i dropped the ball, i will learn from this experience. now what can i do to make you happy."

Unless Brandywine continues to provide **** poor service on a regular basis this will all be forgotten about in two months time.

Amen!

Jason - I use to be in sales many years ago, and my experience is that negative experiences are remembered far long than positive ones. Of course an individual who has a long positive relationship with a company will not likely be influenced by something that he has read. On the other hand those like myself who have little or no relationship with Brandywine will certainly be influenced. Moreover, when a negative incident is reported there's always the ripple effect, like the pebble thrown into a pond. A couple of hundred people read the negative inncident on this forum, and they in turn relate the incident to one or two friends and these people talk to their friends, etc. Of course a neagative experience that happened to someone personally is far more important than one that he read about, and maybe the latter type will be forgotten much quicker as you suggest.

Viper, was thinking of buying a car from them. But not now. Yes, there are two sides to every story but your account is temperate and factual. I have little doubt but that you have got it right. Why deal with a dealership that pulls a stunt like this? Sure, others may have had good dealings. But, this isn't the first time s/o has complained about Brandywine. I'm not willing to take the risk when there are other dealers without black marks.

Chuckla, I'd be just as hesitant to buy a car from them. There is a thread on here or on 6speedonline.com where they screwed someone out of a 997 GT3 after supposedly taking a deposit on the car. It is almost as if the dealership is nothing more than a bunch of 14 year olds w/ a good internet connection. Totally full of it. I really wonder what would have happened had I sent the money? Frightening.

The wire transfer requirement reminds me of the Nigerian fraudsters who have been contacting me, with love, since the 1970s. You handled all of that very well.

It's really discouraging seeing so many people having problems with them. Originally I liked them because they were local, but it didn't take long to figure them out. It's such a shame. You have to wonder if any of them sneak on here under the radar, and read any of this.

I don't know about on this site but I do know that one of them posts, or posted, on the 6speedonline.com site. I also know that a google search of brandywine porsche kicks at least two of these threads up on the first page of the response.

Similar story over here : had some (monetary) issues with them the week Justin left. Credit card was charged for higher amount than Justin made me an offer for. His successor 'could not match Justin's price'. Unlegal situation, since they were bound by an offer, but not worth the amount of money making a stink out of it. My business is now with Sunset.

order some small part from suncoast porsche, arrived quickly, pkg is tight and part is well-protected. credit card was charged with the right amount. there are good guys out there.......

My new engine arrived today! Sunset rocks! I ordered it from them on Friday July 6 and it is sitting at my shop right now on the 17th. Eleven days later. Brandywine couldn't even manage to actually order the enigine in that time.

Thought I would update this. The Sunset motor is in and running great. Also did a new clutch and lightweight flywheel plus update the clutch fork while we had things apart. Very pleased so far. Just need to get all of the air out of the system and it'll be perfect.

Viper - I'm glad you are rolling again!

gota911, thanks for the concern. It took almost two months without my baby to finally get her back rolling. Still need to get all of the air out of the cooling system but otherwise running well. She also needs a bath.

Viper, what kind of clutch and ltw flywheel did you go with? Also, are you experiencing any chatter with your setup? Thanks.

Arnee, stock OEM clutch and AASCO flywheel (sold by FVD (thanks Rhonda) and others). Funny thing about it is very little chatter so far. I was expecting something noticeable, esp. after things warmed up. So far, not much that I can notice. It could be that my exhaust is masking it though.