What does a S get you?

What does a C2S/C4S get you over the standard C2 or C4 other than a few extra ponies? I assume the millage is a hair lower on them as well?

In the 996 world there is no C2S. The C4S uses the turbo body (sans intake sccops). The engine is the same.

C4S= turbo body (without intercooler intakes, but with prettier rear reflector), TT brakes & suspension, full leather interior, awd, memory seat, etc... It's a turbo without the turbo engine.

Here is what I come up with as some of the differences between the S and standard C with 6 spd manual using the 2008 911 sales guide. There might be more but here is what I found in the guide.The S comes standard with: Bi-xenon headlights PASM (porsche active suspension management) Brake calipers in red 19" Carrera S wheels Three spoke sport steering wheel in leather and some interior trim look differences 3.8 @ 355hp vs 3.6 @ 320 hp in the C o to 60 in 4.6 vs 4.8 in the C Top speed 188mph vs 177mph in the c 17/25mpg vs 18/26 mpg in the c I'd also be interested in learning of any other difference others might be aware of.

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This is for the 997. Is the poster asking about 996's? If he wants 997 information he needs to change forums.....

The OP may actually be asking about 997s, as he referenced the additional ponies.

Asking about both really. Trying to figure out what I want, and the budget drops me on a '04 or '05. Have the C2 vs C4 thing squared away in my head, just trying to figure out what a slapping an S onto the name buys me.

For the 996 the only "S" is the C4S. And that does not buy you any horsepower...only some nice features and looks.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Was confusing 996 and 997 options it appears.

Fallon, I see you're in Kuwait, but I thought I would mention the following even though it regards to N.America (and possibly ROW): The last model year for the 996 C4S was 2005, and I think the car was primarily the same throughout it's production run 2002-2005. The 997 C2S was introduced for the 2005 model year. The 997 C4S (and C4) were introduced for the 2006 model year. The difference in price between a 996 C4S and a 997 C4S is probably fairly significant.

Actually I'm only concerned with American models... Friend over here got me hooked when he sold me his 04 996. Unfortunately as I've found out, it's not feasible to bring gulf spec cars back to the states, so I'm figuring out what to replace it with when I head back home from the sandbox. Thanks for all the info on the breakdown for the various models & years for the 996/997 switchover, will help me figure things out a bit more.

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I must be looking at the wrong pictures because all I can tell (body wise) is different front and rear bumper, but Iv been told that the body is actually wider? is this true?

the c4s/tt have the same body. the rear is wider than the c2 car. the engines has same displacement and hp, but the c4s is actually slower than the c2 because it weighs more. finally the c4s/tt are awd cars.

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Half truth

S gets you less money in the wallet...... but a turbo look that just looks meaner, wider and faster and with much better brakes

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bro just call up Behbehani and ask them... PS: all the info you need is on the Porsche Website...

I always wondered why the C4S did not get a few extra HP..At least to compinsate for the extra weight. On allmost all other P cars the "S" equals more ponies. Why do you suppose that is?

because the 996 C4S is so awesome even with the same engine, it would have defied the laws of nature and god to give it more power.

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There's nothing about this sentence I didn't like.

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+2

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You are correct, he is only half right. The full truth is that additional drivetrain losses and a higher coeficient of drag also factor in (along with the higher weight). Porsche's published data indicates that the C4S is a tenth slower to 60mph and has a top speed that is 5mph slower. But as I have said before the C4S is better looking (my opinion) and will undoubtably perform better in inclement weather.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/jumper.gif

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Ray, Ray, Ray... must you force me to pull out the tried and true 'Ring card?

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...because you're not gonna sell a lot of X51 kits that way! Imagine Porsche's margin on that little check box.

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Ben, come on now. You can mag race if you want, but unless you are really going to compare laps that were driven by the same driver, on the same tires (we both know you are not) in similar conditions what are you really comparing? I love the C4S and it has a lot of strengths, but lets not fib about it's weaknesses.

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Ray, see how frustrating and silly it is? People pull out the 'Ring card on me. And, yes, it's all hairsplitting. It IS a half truth. Some scenarios the pork4s is quicker than the regular carrera and vice versa. It is not outright faster like comparing a GT3 to either one.

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Ben I disagree,in the dry a C2 is outright faster. In the wet, a C4 is outright faster. On the street, I'll admit the difference is small. However, if you drive them back to back at a track (I have, but I wonder how many that proclaim to the high heavens in threads like this also have) the difference is brutally obvious. It is NOT a half truth. Even Porsche's published performance figures show a difference. Why do you believe you can add AWD and get something for nothing? Do you honestly believe there is zero penalty? I'll agree to disagree with you.

ray you know i'm trying my best to stick up for the c4s rennlisters! and i've said time and time again the next 911 i get it'll be rwd. not necessarily because i care about laptimes, but i do miss the feel of rwd. but i'm going to point out things you've already heard here before. the c4s isn't bigger heavier and that's it. stock for stock (who does that?) it's got bigger brakes. better suspension. wider track. more grip. this compensates for the weight gain and makes it a HALF TRUTH that the rwd carrera, the more lighter, skinnier brother is faster. palting, where are you when i need you? j/k

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Lets deal with the facts first. The only "S" in the 996 NA line is the C4S. Here, the "S", relative to the non-S C4, has larger brakes, wider tread, wider tires, sportier suspension, wider body, all leather interior, upgraded headlights/turbo-look, more weight than the C2, less weight than the turbo. If you compare it to the C2, it's has all of the above, plus it has AWD. The "S" version of the 997 has more HP/torque than the non-S, but they have the same suspension, same tires, same brakes, same interior, body, body style. OK, now that that's settled, let's move on to the fun stuff . Opinions . The stock out of the box 996 C4S, with it's better brakes, suspension, tires, wider tread, all these more than make up for it's extra weight and is faster than the stock out of the box 996 C2. The Porsche AWD was designed more to enhance performance and less for climatic conditions. Personal experience is that the AWD lets me get around the apex and out to the corner faster. So, in addition to my original statement that the "S" performance extras more than compensate for the extra weight, now with the AWD enhanced cornering, the C4S is faster than the C2 and the C4 in the wet AND in the dry. There are several anecdotal supports for this opinion. Ben has alluded to the "ring card", and Ray countering. For those who have not had the pleasure or agony of previous extended and repeated and repeated arguments, this is a list circulating on the net listing ring times, where the C4 is slower than the C2 which in turn is slower than the C4S. Another supporting point is the infamous Stig, who drove both a C2 and a C4S on a closed track, and he went faster in the C4S. Then of course, there are the multiple anecdotal personal experiences, and you can pick any one you like. Here' mine. As I progressed up the ranks in DE, the C4S consistently was faster than any other car on the run group. I'd like to say it was because I was a better driver than anyone else in my class, but the truth is that the C4S, with all it's "S" and AWD enhancements, was just that much more easy to drive fast than anything else out there. In the DRY. Here's another opinion on what the "S" gets you. It gets you the best looking 996 out there, bar none. Of course, this is a totally impartial, unbiased opinion, and has nothing to do with the fact that I own one . One more thing that the "S" get you. It gets you a bargain, despite the higher price. If you add the cost of the all leather interior, the wider wheels, wider tires, sport suspension, better brakes to a stock C2, you'll end up spending more money. It was true then when I bought the C4S new in 2002, and it is likely still true in todays used car market. Especially where you follow the trend where the C4S is holding it's own better against depreciation. So that, IMHO, is what the "S" in a 996 gets you.

that's my boy who just hit it out of the park

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Palting you don't have to believe me. Just look up Porsche's data for the C4S. They say the car is a tenth slower to 60 and 5mph down on top speed. Additionally, I'd agree that a C4 or C4S may produce faster laps in the hands of an inexperienced driver as the they will both have more understeer which is far more confidence inspiring. Furthermore the C2 doesn't need bigger brakes, it's brakes can go lap after lap fade free (you and I both know bigger in brakes is not always better) and it can fit up to 315's in the rear without rolling the fenders (if that's enough tire for a GT3, it's plenty for a C2). As for the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I will point out in DE you see it all (Cab's, Tip's, C2's, C4's, etc.) because you aren't racing for first or last. However, in Club Racing you see what works because those guys are racing to win. I wonder why you see lots of 996 C2's and few if any C4's and C4S's in CR??? Interesting that they would gravitate to the "slower" C2's, isn't it

Ray, you're not taking over from TD are you? To be honest, I don't know of any Porsche official performance numbers that rate the C4S slower in a straight line. A link would be nice. But, as you know and love, Porsche's are not about 0-60 straight line times. Lot's of arguably lesser cars have Porsches beat in that category. It's all about those wonderful corners, those lateral G's and the ease with which we can achieve them, just like you've got in your avatar . And in those corners, Porsche is supreme. In those corners, my argument above holds. BTW, I think the AWD/understeer thing is misunderstood/misrepresented, at least in the Porsches. Yes, if you stomp on the gas pedal with the wheels turned, the C4S will understeer like a pig. But, if you modulate the gas, the front drive will turn that front around the apex faster, and you can get on the gas and progress to WOT faster, and achieve a faster exit speed. In club racing, we're now talking about race cars. Those cars are gutted to the bare minimum for weight, upgraded as much as possible within their class. That's not what we are talking about here. People will purchase Porsches to convert them into dedicated race cars for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, IMHO, none of those reasons will translate into reasons for purchasing a Porsche 996 for street/track use. I contend that for the average Joe looking for at a street/track Porsche, he will get more performance and bang for his buck with a stock 996 C4S than with a stock 996 C2. Anyway, the OP was asking about what the "S" gets him. I think we've got most of that that covered.

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Sorry, I don't have a link but I'm sitting here looking at Porsche's published figures (you can find them in the back of Total 911 or GTPorsche magazine). I'm sure you can find the figures for yourself with a simple search. Yes and lighter corners better. That's the magic behind the Lotus Elise. Some of my favorite Colin Chapman line are "To add speed, add lightness." and "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." Ben already knows I'm nutty about the excess weight Porsche puts in these cars. Not in the stock classes they are not. They must run with full interiors and are only allowed limited modifications. For them (as in most track work) much of their speed comes down to the power to weight ratio. Like I said before, I doubt I'll convince you (and you won't convince me) so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Ray, one of these days you and I will meet up in a track. In fact, I'm in Mid-Ohio right now and there are several guys from Chicago doing DE. I have a deal for you. If and when that happens, we can swap cars. I don't think we should drive our own cars, since we just might kill ourselves trying too hard. So, we swap cars for one run. I am willing to bet a six pack for the after-event bench racing camaraderie, that you driving my C4S will beat me driving your C2. I know your car and my car are no longer stock, but what the heck, it should be fun. There will probably be accusations of "slumming", but unless we come to a dead stop on the track to allow the other guy to win, it should still be fun. If not, it can probably still be funny as heck.

Better yet, have the Stig drive both your cars...