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YOUR RESEARCHGetting new Chain Adjusters - what else to do?
Leading reported evidence
Use enough
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Read evidence and context
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The parts in the engine that are not acting up at least have been used enough that any chance a new part was bad has been eliminated.
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Suggestion
(the black "button" on the top of the LNE part can be seen by looking directly into the tensioner hole for the IMS chain - staright up, you can feel it with your finger and use light to check for any cracks)
Leading evidence: 'Use enough' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check any cracks)' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Swepco 502 I've been told helps quiet down engines during startup that don't get used regularly.
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Suggestion
(the black "button" on the top of the LNE part can be seen by looking directly into the tensioner hole for the IMS chain - staright up, you can feel it with your finger and use light to check for any cracks)
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Suggestion
But for instance if a broken valve spring replaced Porsche would not authorize the dealer to examine the bearings and possibly replace those as well absent any signs or symptoms pointing to the need to check the bearings.
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They get really sludged up and dirty due to design as there is only one way for oil to check into them and it doesn't check back out unless it bleeds around the side of the piston.
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Check any cracks)
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Suggestion
(the black "button" on the top of the LNE part can be seen by looking directly into the tensioner hole for the IMS chain - staright up, you can feel it with your finger and use light to check for any cracks)
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Suggestion
But for instance if a broken valve spring replaced Porsche would not authorize the dealer to examine the bearings and possibly replace those as well absent any signs or symptoms pointing to the need to check the bearings.
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Suggestion
They get really sludged up and dirty due to design as there is only one way for oil to check into them and it doesn't check back out unless it bleeds around the side of the piston.
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Due to knocking noise on cold start up, the dealer is replacing both chain adjusters under CPO. If there anything else I should have them do while they are doing these? I'm not sure if this is one of those "while your doing this, do that" type of situation as I don't know what's involved.
This car only has 20K? If you really need new tensioners, I'd be looking at the IMS also. I'd be very very concerned about corrosion from water & acid in the oil while this engine sat for extended periods. There are 996s with 140k+ with original tensioners and no start up noise. (and original IMS)
At 2500 miles per year, it possibly sat alot and has a different set of concerns than those of us with 10k/year.
as long as he is covered by cpo... why touch it ?
and Porsche sure as h&ll aint gonna pay to replace a part because it "might fail"
your only option is to smile, drink the free coffee and ask them what time you can pick up your car.
Drive it with a big ole smile
CPO is in effect until November of 2011, so I have 1 yr and 4 months left. They said chain adjusters, but are going off of my recording of the sound. Parts are on order, so I'll know for sure when they finish the work.
Does the tranny get pulled for this job? If so, I'll look at the clutch. If not, then I'll wait just before CPO expires to do the clutch and IMS bearing.
The car had 13k on it last November and now about 21k. So I'm hoping that driving it more during the CPO period will surface more issues since it wasn't driven much prior.
Generally in these situations dealers don't have the freedom to throw new parts at the engine "while there".
Porsche is -- my second hand info -- pretty specific about what it will ok to replace or not replace. Anything obviously wrong or made wrong or compromised by some internal problem will be replaced.
But for instance if a broken valve spring replaced Porsche would not authorize the dealer to examine the bearings and possibly replace those as well absent any signs or symptoms pointing to the need to check the bearings.
However, if chain tensioners being replaced I'd want to be sure all chain guides were in good shape. If tensioners going bad the guides could have suffered some accelerated wear/tear as a direct result from any tensioner problems.
Also, I'd be very sure to inspect the driving and driven sprocket teeth for any wear and have these replaced.
Plus any VarioCam actuator hardware that might have been subject to more wear/tear from failing tensioners.
Sincerely,
Macster.
well "chain adjusters" just doenst ring a bell...
I find it highly unlikely the rail guids are shot. Highly likely the tensioners are scored and not working and somewhat unlikely the actuators are out... is your car 3.4 or 3.6? (IIRC 02' is a 3.4)
so if it is tensioners they wont pull anything BUT the tensioners... there are no other parts to pull. If its actuators... woo doggie, bigger job... cam covers and cams off, and if its guides the same thing as the actuators... big job, going in deep in the heads (no head removal, but cams out)
make sure they look at the button on the IMS chain arm... its a silly plastic thing and has been know to frag.
(the black "button" on the top of the LNE part can be seen by looking directly into the tensioner hole for the IMS chain - staright up, you can feel it with your finger and use light to check for any cracks)
My point was that I would pay for any parts that have been known to fail while the labor was being done. I certainly wouldn't expect Porsche to pay for a non-failed part.
It's a 3.6. From what the service writer said, it's about a 3-4 hour job. I'll talk to the tech when I take the car back in when the parts arrive.
I'm surprised they are replacing these parts based on my recording of the start up noise, but am glad the dealer is good about addressing issues under the CPO.
I would say bring the tech some bagels or donuts and coffee and he might do you a solid and go over any other items that could be R &R under CPO now or in the future...
3-4 hours...?
BOTH chain adjusters?
wierd.
so you have 3 "chain adjusters
996.105.188.00
996.105.180.55 of 56
996.105.186.00
that's the only thing I can think of you could do in 3-4 hours... if you take lots of coffee breaks?
Well, over a large population of vehicles any of the parts exposed during this repair have been known to fail. Fortunately not very often. Not often enough to warrant replacing them as a precaution. There's a slight risk too replacing an existing part with a new one the new part could prove to be defective. The parts in the engine that are not acting up at least have been used enough that any chance a new part was bad has been eliminated. There's value in that fact.
Absent any signs of distress at the cam lobes (pitting perhaps) and absent any signs of any collateral damage from the failing chain tensioners -- such as the sprockets on the camshafts as I mentioned in previous post -- just taking care of the tensioners and the guides sufficient.
Of course, any signs of any oil leaks, seepages say from a spark plug tube, or a cam cover plug, etc., should be addressed. Not even sure I'd replace the AOS.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I dont think the cam covers are coming off in 3-4 hours so there is not going to be any cam lobe inspection....
I am really curious what they are replacing and what caused them to think it needed to be replaced
+1000 on that.
My CPO expires in 2/2011. I am trying to drive it as much as possible.
I've had the Oil pressure sensor and the RMS replaced to date. I had them throw in a clutch kit with the RMS that I bought from Suset.
My starter sounds terribly weak during a warm start up. I guess I have to wait for it to fail (and leave me stranded) before they will do anything.
I recorded the knocking sound with a camera. The noise only lasts about 2 seconds. The master tech based it repair on that sound clip. They seem to like warranty work though.
OK - ask him if you can have the "old parts" (or at least see them)
if he replaces the tensioners, they could be gauld on the sleeve...have him point it out to you.
My '99 C2 6 speed has the same 2 sec rattling on cold start if I have not driven the car in a week or so. What are the parts that might be affected? No rattle when I am regularly driving it.
The rattling is not that uncommon on the 996 engines. The tensioners are fed pressurized oil, so when the engine is off they can go down some. When the engine is started the oil pumps them back up. Look at your oil pressure gauge, it takes a second or two to register pressure when you start the car, about the same time as the rattle typically takes place.
New tensioners tend to be tighter and not have any scoring so they don't leak down as much. They have also had some redesign over the years.
LN and Flat 6 recommend replacing all 3 tensioners with the latest ones when you do an IMS bearing upgrade. The three tensioners can be bought for about $200. As for the time to replace them, the two on the flywheel end of the engine should not take more than 10-15 minutes each. The one on the other end of the engine is a pain to get at. You have to pull the AC Compressor, loosen some brackets, then snake a big socket down in to it. Once it is loosened it is a tight fit trying to get it out from under the hoses and brackets and then get the new one back in. By the way the newer style at this location comes with a hex drive socket (allen wrench style) to make it easier to get at. For this one you could easily spend an hour or so.
Chain guides, chains, sprockets. Theoretically. But come on, a 99 that has been doing this since day one?
Worry about bird flu. Earth destroying asteriods. Space alien invasion.
Seriously, about all you can do if you can't drive the car more frequently is to ensure you use the proper engine oil, a high quality oil, of the right viscosity grade for your area, and keep the oil reasonably fresh. I've done this with my 02 Boxster and it has accumulated nearly 234K miles. Sure, there's a bit of chain noise (sounds like a heavy chain being dragged over a log) at startup, if the engine has sat a while, but the noise goes away in must one or two seconds.
If you want to try it, since you have some history with car, add a bottle of Swepco 502 oil treatment to the engine's oil. Swepco 502 I've been told helps quiet down engines during startup that don't get used regularly.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Mileage isn't what causes tensioner issues... They get really sludged up and dirty due to design as there is only one way for oil to check into them and it doesn't check back out unless it bleeds around the side of the piston.
Typically they can be pulled, soaked in thin hot oil and cycled to purge debris from them and they operate like new. This should be done at least once every 3 oil services.
Start up noise is normal when these wear or get dirty.
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