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YOUR RESEARCHIMS new detection speculation
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big worry
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Leading evidence: 'big worry' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'big worry' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust business model' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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It was designed to be on/off but has proven to be a bit variable.
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The only problem is the fact that October is one of our craziest months as cars from the colder states are coming off the roads for our specialized services and engine reconstructions, electively...
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The system will only be as effective as it's operator, because the system doesn't shut down the engine, only alerts the driver that some problem is imminent and the situation needs to be explored before continuing to
Check b&n again, still only have the october issue.....jeez
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Just checked B&N again, still only have the October issue.....jeez!
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Suggestion
Using diferents ways like ultrasounds, vibrations, temperature you need a very expensive device and a very trained technician to check aproximately the expected life of a bearing.
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Suggestion
How difficult is it to make the system check automatic so everytime i turn my key to the ON position but before cranking the engine, this device will do an auto check just like I pressed that button briefly?
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Suggestion
So I think that if you appreciate your car, you'll be doing the test check everytime you'll be starting the engine on as a mechanical function of your brain, similar to change gear while driving (you do it without thinking, just as a repetitive exercise)l
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Suggestion
How difficult is it to make the system check automatic so everytime i turn my key to the ON position but before cranking the engine, this device will do an auto check just like I pressed that button briefly?
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Reported cause
The only problem is the fact that October is one of our craziest months as cars from the colder states are coming off the roads for our specialized services and engine reconstructions, electively...
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Reported cause
The system will only be as effective as it's operator, because the system doesn't shut down the engine, only alerts the driver that some problem is imminent and the situation needs to be explored before continuing to
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
671 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Its all good now that we have some units in stock.
I thought it would be interesting to see peoples thoughts to what type of IMSB detection system Flat6 is going to announce. It's only opinions of course until Jake announces it. Any ideas what it could be?
A check-list system in which you do various checks on the vehicle during oil changes... Check filter, send oil out for analysis, check for leaks, check for noises. Don't do this, and don't do that, but do this...
And a far fetched hope on what oil they recommend.
What we have developed is based on direct experience with dealing with failures and the elements involved with failures that always exist before the big event.
The product won't be unveiled until July. Until then there won't be any more mention of it from our end or hints. I hate to be like that, but its whats required while we are protecting the technology.
Lots of copycats in this world, after having dozens of items ripped off that I have developed in the past, I am taking zero risks with any more in the future.
It will be cost effective! Integration into the vehicle will also be very simple, capable of a DIY installation. We will be shooting the installation DVD in a couple of weeks!
I just don't want people to think the mystique is something that we want. This product is a real winner for the engine, the owners and the value of the vehicles as well as my company. Better than that its something that originated completely under this roof and was the first good idea I have had in years!
Eddie,
You need not worry. You'll see why when we release the development. On a separate note, I might need to borrow your car when we come to the west coast to unveil this to some of the shops there in person. We plan a west coast tour in July!
Oh, and as long as you boys behave and keep the drama down while waiting there is a healthy Rennlist discount planned for the units bought directly from us :-)
We can't be away from the lab that long, so we'll have to fly out and make the trip in a rental clunker. I had thought about shipping my 996 out ahead of us for the trip and illustrate how the development works first hand and we may still do that.
There is one problem with using a customer's vehicle as a demonstrator.. You'll see why when the development is revealed.
I'd like to have THE CAR that was used to develop and test this unit on hand. We ship cars cross country weekly, so the costs is fair. I have had a car inbound or outbound constantly for the last 22 months! One heads home to Oregon on Tuesday after a 3.8L big bore was installed!
Ivangene,
You'll have one of the first available! Chris and the gang do such a good job that I want them to be a major left coast dealer for the technology.
So, you take a knocksensor. Map the internal noises from healthy engine and engine that has known issue. Calibrate the sensor electronics for this frequency, and there you got it. Sensor that monitors the noises that are caused by faulty ims....
Am I right? Well this is how I would do it
No problem.. It would be fun to see if anyone could even get close to it with a guess... I would ask anyone with a guess to PM it to me rather than posting it. I know we have (at least) one troll that watches what we do here and is copycatting procedures that we originated and have discussed here.
I really do love this forum, the only other forums that will get a discount would be 986 forum, because they support us just as well and appreciate what we have created.
The key is early detection. Period.
This development gives a sense of security when nothing is wrong and it couples that with a warning when something starts to go wrong. This enables the driver to make an educated decision as to what course of action should be carried out. Detection occurs early enough that an IMSR can be applied.
The best part of this for the purchaser is the incentive package that comes with the unit, details on that later... You'll like it.
I have received guesses all over the board.. Its making this quite fun!
We only lack two parts of the system to be produced to hit the market, all the development and test work is completed.
This has been in the works since 2008 when I first had the idea :-)
You won't believe how simple I have made this. You also won't believe the incentives that go hand in hand with it if you have an IMS failure with the unit employed in the vehicle...
3-4 hours at maximum.
I can tell you that in July.
Some people will get to see the unit in early-mid July as we make a cross country tour, hitting some of the most prominent Porsche repair facilities.
For this technology, or an IMSR procedure??
Shops are not pleasing us these days, my recommendations for other facilities is dwindling as we find more and more companies are not carrying out the kind of customer service that we expect. Bad communication, less than effective practices and only being concerned with the bottom line is forcing us to expand our services to other areas via more tucks and cars being shipped in/out of the FSI facility.
We do not utilize the customer base for development, we have our own lab and our own test vehicles. When we sell something it is fully developed. Thats the Flat Six Difference.
IMSR... shops in the tri-state? PM if preferred.
so, the IMS failure detect procedure is easy enough with diy'ers? shipping would prob be out of the questions for many of us here...
Shipping is cost effective and EASY. We move so many cars that we have our own shippers and the pricing is good, we have gotten complete truck loads of vehicles in the past. We are moving dozens of cars some months, from as far away as Canada and California on a routine basis. We have cars here now from 9 states, one more on the way home to Oregon, another shipping to W. Virginia Friday and two inbound from Canada! One was driven in from Minnessota, dropped off and the owner will be driving it home on Friday after a deluxe preventive procedure was carried out.
For an IMSR, just send the car to the shop that did the first IMSR and developed the technology for simple bearing extraction. We co-developed the IMSR procedure with LN Engineering, we have carried out more than anyone and we don't have to call to ask people for help if we hit a problem. If your IMSR extraction doesn't go smoothly, you want your car at my facility.
And we have a IMSR Clinic ongoing this entire month of May, with a 350.00 discount :-)
See these pages for all the details of what the FSI IMSR procedure consists of, overlook the pricing as Rennlisters get the special pricing at 3,150.00 for our version of the IMSR this month.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/serv...shaft-retrofit
There will be no need for anyone to ship a car to us for our detection technology to be applied. The install is so simple that it can be done in the garage by the most non-mechanically inclined person. We are shooting an installation DVD as well that takes the installer through all the processes a step at a time.. You'll see. You'll love it.
It can really consume your mind.. Without my direct experience with the engines and some of my previous experiences I would have never thought of this. The harder you think about it, the further off base you will travel. :-)
The Boxster and 996 can equally utilize this... At our level there are no differences in the engines, just a couple mm of bore size in most situations. The technology can be applied to ANY M96/M97 powered Porsche.
We ship to Europe daily, shipping isn't an issue, even when we ship turnkey engines to Russia! I am sure we will secure some EU distributors before the technology is released to make ordering simpler.
Lots of people want it and don't know what it is. I really wish we could go ahead and release it, but the paperwork takes time and we just HAVE to wait.
Would you recommend purchasing/installing this technology if we've already had the IMSR installed, or can we rest assured those aren't going to go boom?
I'll answer that question after the technology is released :-)
The IMSR with ceramic hybrid bearings are batting 100% in regard to service, NONE have failed to date.
The IMS bearing is around $600 right? Would you buy the IMS Bearing if it were $300 off? Just trying to keep some perspective. I guess there's about $1000 in R/R of the transmission and you may as well throw a new clutch in there so maybe $300 isn't bad.
Jake
Perhaps you've not actually thought of how to do it yet but are using the extensive knowledge, experience and ingenuity of the RLers to give you an idea about how to detect IMS failure before it happens?
Ok, jk.
Good luck with your project. My IMSB is already replaced with an LNE retrofit...so I presume I won't need the magic device, right?
Most people are not carrying out the IMSR themselves, at bare minimum the costs are 2,000.00 and most of the time those prices are only coming from shops that are starving. Corners are being cut to do the job thoroughly at that cost.
This technology will cost 300.00 or less. It does not require any engine intervention at all, nothing has to be dismantled and it can be done asa DIY easily. Quite possibly a DIY'r could do this for only the cost of the technology, no install cost and no costs for associated components.
A lot has gone into the perfection of the technology, most of that has been required to keep the unit simple. Simplicity is of course the ultimate sophistication when developing something like this.
We could release the technology tomorrow if we were not protecting it as well and didn't want to present the product as professionally. The development work is done, testing is done. Like I said this has been in the works since 2008, before the time that most people knew about the IMS Bearing Failure.
I am sure they wouldn't. The economy is forcing shops to do things that they previously never would, just to stay alive. Part of that means exceptionally competetive pricing with compromises in the services that are delivered or the parts that are used.
This is happenning in the areas where the highest population of Porsches and Porsche shops exist, especially in SOCAL. I have had shops call me and ask how they can do the job cheaper to be more competetive; my response was "Don't do the job cheaper, do the job better and provide better customer service throughout the experience".
The economy has INCREASED our business, but few shops can say that.
Yup, you are right Jake - when money is tight people go where the know they are going to get treated right and get the best service which will end up costing less in the end. Best doesnt mean the most expensive, it just means the best....good places will do well and the ones cutting corners will end up cutting their own throats - smart business means customer service
I have heard a couple of horror stories about shops attempting to install the IMS bearing and having catastrophic results. You need to choose carefully when picking a shop. Just becuase they have 20 years working on AC cars does not make them an M96 guru
The shop that installed mine is an authorized dealer for LN and did a great and detail oriented job. They have done many.
Yea, I know... like when I hear people going to "shop X" for a PPI on a water pumper and think... those guys are air cooled guys who may or may not even know anything about water pumpers, let alone tell you things that will be of use - not the same animals
The first and only Indy I've used was strictly an air-cooled shop, but a very good one. They worked on some Boxsters and 996s but really weren't familiar with the water-pumpers. I have been doing all my maintainance for 3 years and hope to continue to do so, unless something comes up that I'm not interested or capable of doing myself.
there is a pretty heavy investment / commitment for a shop to make the transition into water cars...., not all of them are willing to do the homework and invest in the tools and training
People who lack procedural traits need not attempt an IMSR... Technicians that are just working on the clock with no attention to detail, enthusiasm or heart are those who cause themselves issues.
Lots of people that literally laughed at us for developing these engines several years ago are now starving because of their closed minds. The forethought and dedication have paid off because while others are just learning the engines, we are TEACHING people about them.
I laugh when I see shops in highly populated areas fighting each other for work, cutting prices left and right and we are having cars shipped to us from these same areas across the country to have the work done our way. It says a lot when a shop will do a procedure 100 bucks less than another shop thats 5 miles away, but the vehicle owner puts his car on a hauler and ships it 2500 miles across country where the procedure costs more and the shipping adds to it. We charge more, but we do more and we do it better in every way right down to the documentation and follow up.
That said, this development greatly reduces the absolute necessity of the IMSR to gain the sense of security that a dozen people call us in search of every single day. The best part is, that it works.
Sir, give yourself a bit pat on the back for your self-promotional skills. In the medical field, particularly in the areas of elective (i.e. those not covered by health insurance) procedures such as Lasik, lap-band and cosmetic surgery, we are seeing physicians cutting their fees to keep patients from traveling tens of thousands of miles to places like India, Thailand and the former USSR in search of
cheaper
fees. And remember, we're talking about peoples'
own lives
at risk here! That you are able to convince people to pay a hefty premium for a relatively straightforward job
on their car
...well, as I said, a big pat on the back. You should be lecturing at medical symposia, seriously!
WOW,
Lets just say that word spreads quick and when its all good, people listen closely (at least the smart ones do)
Lots of people know that we pioneered this development of the IMSR with LN and that I made the puller, so they want to ship their car to the place where the magic happens to have the procedure done thoroughly.
We also do pre and post eveluations on the engine as well as oil samples and chassis dyno tests before and after, then **I** drive every car at least 100 miles before it headshome to ensure that the engine has no issues, has no leaks and all is working as planned.
There are still a few smart people left on the planet that appreciate value. They find us.
I have to admit to being torn by these IMS treads.
The economics of repairing a 996 engine has shifted from replacement with a factory crate to now being able to repair/rebuild (depending on the extent of the damage). There has been very little incentive to compete for the business until recently. That has all changed and you guys were ahead of the curve. As you know things change quickly.
I own two 996's, so I am not in the market for another, at least not today. I know these cars well; I think it is very hard to beat the fun and performance at past or current prices.
How does it work to your benefit to stay on the internet bashing the 996, scaring the hell out of new buyers and scaring off potential buyers?
The �99s are 12 years old with prices bringing in a lot of new Porsche owners. There is plenty of business in keeping these great cars on the road for everyone�.
There is no way to share the issues with these engines that need to be addressed without some degree of negativity. The majority of the people that call us with IMS failures (4 this week so far) have zero idea that these engines have a problem until theirs stops running.
We share what is reality, nothing more and nothing less. We have done nothing more than share our vast and direct experience related to the things that can stop the heartbeat of the engine dead in its tracks.
Now that we have devised a method of pre-determining imminent engine failure people can have the sense of security that they ask us for, but until now could not receive without an IMSR procedure.
Yes, we were way ahead of the curve with the development of these engines, we did this when WE WANTED to do it and were never forced to. The shops that were not proactive in their knowledge of the engines are left with generally no idea, but a few have attended our M96 101 instruction course and leave with the ability to assemble an engine correctly.
There is no easy way or positive way to get the point across about the reality of engine failures without some degree of nagativity. Trust me, I have tried.
The nice thing is that we have choices. I would pay an additional $500-$800 to have Jake's shop do this vs. a shop that has only done it a few times. They have the the most experience and thorough procedures. If spending $2500-$3000 what's a few hundred more? I'm not a rich (not even close) Porsche owner, but someone who bought a used one like most of us here. The fact they have developed something to deter many of us from the $3500 fee they charge shows a lot in my opinion.
This issue always amazes me. Jake offers a service, if you don't want it done then don't do it. Obviously some people bought a Porsche thinking it was an economy car. If your the type of person who bought a 996, but has trouble trying to justify the expense of the maintenance, then maybe this is not the car for you. These cars are technical marvels, and the cost of that technology is a small price to pay in exchange for the performance and dependability they provide. Just my .02
Having to upgrade the IMS bearing because Porsche failed to properly engineer it and won't own up to it goes beyond mere "maintenance." Don't make this about the buyer.
Not saying it's about the owner, but the owner has the option not to buy the car in the first place. If the IMS is a deal breaker for some one then sobeit. Having a Porsche,no matter what year,is like having a swimming pool,costs a ton of money to get,keep,maintain and worth every penny!
Likewise, don't rip on the guy (Jake) who came up with the solution. You don't have to upgrade your IMS bearing if you don't want to. My car was running perfectly, no leaks, nothing. But I want to keep my car, drive the snot out of it and then pass it on to my son. I made the choice not to risk the motor imploding. I made the choice to upgrade my IMS (and a whole lot of other things). I figured, to my economic disadvantage, to go right to the source for the work. I shipped my car over 2500 miles to Jake's shop. I'm very glad I did. Jake is a pro, especially at customer service. Since I got the car back, I've autocrossed it, bounced it off the rev limiter a bunch of times, basically had a $hit-eating grin on my face for the last 2 weeks. If you haven't learned by now, you get what you pay for. Thanks Jake! See you in July...
Eddie, thanks for the response.. I will say that it took way more than just my efforts to create the solution of the IMSR, Charles at LN did tons of homework on the bearing characteristics and coming up with the retrofit was his idea.
Exactly. Its a matter of personal preference.
And your car NEEDED this to be done. You had no symptoms that the variocam wear pads were degraded to the point where they could snap in half. The difference in the way the car runs now is indicative of how much it needed the updates that were carried out electively.
Thats 2500 miles each way :-)
Thats great to hear. That car is a real performer that runs exceptionally well, reminds me so much of my old '99 C2 that my Wife set her records in, it was prepared very similarly.
I run a tight ship, all of my team members are the best at their areas of specialty and we communicate with the customer at the same level we would appreciate if the roles were swapped. I think the major issue with business today is a lack of communication, or no communication at all.
Beat on it! It'll love it!
Yep. See ya then. I am glad that you feel that you and your car were well taken care of and that you appreciate what we did to keep the car safe for the miles to come.
I was not "ripping" Jake. He is running a business, and is competing for clients by offering a product and service. I took isssue with one method of marketing this service. I totally appreciate anyone bringing value to our cars. I think he knows what I mean.
I have no problem with disagreement, or conflict.
I honestly have no idea how to market things, what I have created has always been good enough to sell to enough people to seldom ever need an advertisement. Today we only have ONE single ad running in a publication but stay more covered up with business than those who have full pages in every publication in the world.
I believe in the old quote from Dr. Porsche:
"If you do what you believe, rather than what is expected, there will be those who believe in what you create and want to share it with you"
The 996 is a great car, in so many ways it is better than any other Porsche ever built. It has one caveat and for that we have created "The Substitute".
"And you got Two" I cant afford the one I got, but i'm keeping her.
Either that or the house will have to go.
Caravans & Tents are good. Who really needs a House?.
Jake, I'm curious, are you going to offer any kind of a warranty or guarantee with this new device? For example, if it should fail after being correctly installed, is Flat 6 going to offer to replace/rebuild the motor if it fails to detect the IMS bearing failure?
I'm curious to see what you've come up with, and it's something I'd consider purchasing.
Thanks in advance for your response.
I am not big on guarantees or warranties because most are pure BS with 4 pages of fine print that make them virtually worthless.
The details about the guarantees and incentives will be released at the same time as the technology, we are making several considerations.
I would never offer to reconstruct someones 18,000 dollar engine if my 300 dollar device failed, because there is some degree of human error that could be a possibility. There will be some degree of guarantee, but it won't be BS and it won't have fine print. I spend my time developing and put our efforts into things that just plain work, not sitting in a Lawyer's Office figuring out ways to give people a false sense of security just to get into their wallet.
Talked to the ad department at Excellence today.. If all works out with the legal processes the unveiling will occur in the Excellence issue that is distributed the first week of July.
Is it just me or is this solution going to boost up the 996 market values closer to where they should be? These cars have been severely underpriced for a long time (only way I could afford one!
) largely due to the IMS issue, in my opinion. Of course there are other factors -- first water-cooled cars, Boxster headlights, etc. -- but I don't think those by themselves are are strong enough to push good 996s down into the high teens.
Not that it matters for me, since I don't plan on selling mine for at least five thousand years, but it'll be interesting to see what a cheap, easy IMS warning device will do to 996 prices....
The development will more than likely increase values, BUT the number of cars built is whats dropped the prices more than the engine horror stories.. Most new buyers of M96 powered Porsches have NO CLUE that the engines have problems until they buy the car and are reading up on it. I have so many of those emails and calls that I wrote a 4 page directive for new buyers that are worried silly after their purchase.
More than anything people will be keeping their 996s longer due to the technology, because they won't be worried. The Sense Of Security (SOS) that we can't give any other way will then be a reality.
Great, my clutch just finally failed on my 2001 Carrera which means I will be doing the IMS bearing retrofit now instead of waiting for this new gizmo to see if it really needed to be done.
Oh well, I will have piece of mind anyways I guess. LOL
Well Jake, the clutch was just showing high level of engagement but was not slipping or anything... but suddenly there was a softer feeling to the clutch being depressed and some vibration through the peddle Saturday. I think the pressure plate actually is the issue... so hopefully the flywheel is still good. I stopped driving the car since and am waiting for my clutch kit to come in. Guess I will find out once we pull the transmission.
David
This is great, the banter/inquisitiveness back and forth and the high level of interest are only one of the reasons why this forum is a teasure trove of great advice and people.
@ Jake, I wish you the absolute best with the new thingy/device/technology...I had your retrofit installed last year by a local indie and they continue to perform retrofit installs for customers....piece of mind, whether it is technology or the kit....either way "THANK YOU" Jake...you have no doubt helped to keep my dream rolling and that has stopped my engine failure nightmares!
We may start pre-sales when we release the technology... We are working on the website now and more of the legal stuff..
The goal is to carry out a National Tour in July, releasing the technology employed in a 996 to notable shops and people throughout the country. Just after this trip we will unveil the technology and begin pre-sales for an August delivery.
We added more functionality to one aspect of the unit this week, its even better than before!
Anyone up for a rennlist 6 assult on shop? We could drive up in silent Pirus,Distract the staff with hookers and blow,grab all the prototypes and leave $300 each. Open to suggestions as to a alternate plan?
Based on the amount of calls we have had this morning related to failures today could be the rapture!!
SEVEN calls before 110:: in the morning! Thats a new record! Amazing!
Good luck on that.. My office is known as "The Eagles Nest"... I have a view of 1,000 yards in every direction and know that people have arrived, before they even know they are here :-)
Its a little different world here, my closest neighbor is 1/4 mile away, we sit atop a mountain in a "compound environment" and love every minute of it!
We'll have to tunnel from underneath or parachute in then. It's the only way.
Seriously though I would be interested in bringing my IMSR'ed M96 down to a shop in Northern Cal if you are going to be around this summer. Heading into the bay area by any chance?
Tunnelling won't be effective.. We sit atop a solid chunk of Granite.
We will spend a lot of time in the Bay Area, thats our first destination in California as a matter of fact, then we'll go from there. Look for press releases soon, the marketing girls are working on all of that this week!
Hope to see you in Denver. Most of the folks in California seem to be heading this way.
It would be great if you could do the installs or have a bay or two available to have DIY guidance while you were out this way.
Alright guys. I am new to Rennlist but have been a Porsche lover/owner since my high school days, though my driver back then was a 944. So to let the "cat out of the bag".....I am Jake Raby's consultant and investment partner on the IMS product being discussed on this board. Jake and I share a similar work ethic and absolute determination for perfection in anything we take on. It has been a true pleasure getting to know Jake as both a friend and business associate; his drive and determination are unparalleled.
So basically, I've been the "mean old bean counter" keeping this product on the shelf while I tied up the legal issues to protect the technology behind the product. With that said, all of the legal work pertaining to the patent on the device has been completed and submitted to the US Patent and Trademark Office. The marketing gurus are finishing up the "bling" to launch the product in several Porsche publications etc. , but I have been given permission to discuss some of the aspects of the product and what is offered with a purchase.
The final alterations to the device were completed at Jake's lab today and I personally watched a full demonstration and am throughly pleased and excited to send it to the factory for production. Delivery for the first 1000 units is scheduled for July 22nd.
We will begin taking pre-orders on the product June 16th. Due to some minor changes in the design, we are awaiting pricing from the factory before we can release an exact price point for retail sales. A refundable deposit of $100 will be required to be put on the pre-order list. Jake has stated on this forum that the "Rennlist" price would be around $300 and I feel comfortable that the final price will be within that range, give or take $25-$50. The retail price for the unit will be 389.00 per kit to include everything needed for integrations into any Porsche Boxster or 996 up to 2005, the units for the 2005 and later cars are still being finished up in regard to the warning lights and alarms so that easy integration into an unaltered Porsche dash can be carried out for a factory-like installation.
There was some discussion on the forum regarding warranties. A warranty will be offered on the product itself, but more importantly Jake will be offering a 150% credit of purchase towards a IMSRS if an IMS failure is accurately detected while using the product. This new product does NOT fix the IMS issue (the retrofit service does). What this product does is alert you to an impending issue prior to catastrophic failure of the engine. If you catch the failure before "all hell breaks loose" you are able to save the engine with the IMSRS. This allows you to fix your current engine without a complete rebuild or new engine installation ($3,000 vs. $15,000). The majority of owners will enjoy worry free driving and never have to address a IMSRS or Complete Rebuild. More details concerning this will be released in the coming days and there will be some conditions to the warranties.
The true value of this product is the sense of security (SOS) that it gives an operator. We understand and appreciate that some owners are hesitant to spend the $3000+ on a IMSRS when it may not be needed today or anytime in the near future. The key is identification of an impending failure before the collateral damage occurs. At that time you can make the more expensive decision of a IMSRS or possibly a full upgrade on your power plant. Remember that the IMS bearing failure may be a primary mode of failure, but it alone does not compromise an engine, the collateral damages are what can�t be reversed with an IMS procedure after the bearing has failed
Jake will be issuing a post in the next week or so regarding the pre-order instructions. Jake you're a hell of a good product developer and I look forward to many more ventures in the future.
Sincerely,
James
Is this freaking great or what?!
The only question I have - ok two questions James (or Jake). 1. Will this 'item' be user freindly - IE can I install it - or would I need my indy to do it? 2. Will it also work on a 'tip'?
Thanks in advance.
Hey James, glad to have you here and we love any kind of news like this. I suppose this ends the "guessing" game - and for those of us that already guessed correctly, if we pony up our $100 for pre-order and guessed correctly, I'm "guessing" that money will be refunded to us?
The cat is out of the bag. :-) Well sorta. Moles and troles can begin!!! LOL. J/K.
I sincerely respect and admire anything that comes out of the flat six brain, and great news that you are getting a patent/etc. Now you'll have some ammo for those thieves out there.
-Cheers
YES!!!
This system is VERY EASY to install, installation in less than 1 hour with the instructional DVD that we are producing is a reality.
Literally two wires are connected with spade terminals into your vehicle's electrical system and a rocker switch that easily installs into your unaltered Porsche dash is all thats related to this.
This system installs like a factory Porsche item, easily and seamlessly. Once in place the system is in stealth mode and no one even knows it is there, until the warning buzzer and red light illuminate, warning of an impending engine complication.
Literally the only thing thats even a challenge is routing the wire harness from the dash to the engine bay, which is just a few minutes of time and varys from car to car and model to model but none are difficult to install.
One of my biggest goals with this product was to make it effective, easy to install for a DIY and to create a system that literally pops into the dash and operates without being noticeable.
This system will work on any Porsche Boxster, 996/997 or Cayman despite the engine or transaxle.
It sounds too good to be true, but it really is this simple, this concealable and this effective.
We will be able to unveil the product in July, everything else is now either completed are in the final processes concerning the protection of the technology. James and I are planning our nationwide tour now, where we will have a display system with us and another system installed into the 996 that we'll be driving on the nationwide tour, with engine monitoring and security provided by the system.
Guys,
I have the mechanical ability of a twelve year old girl and believe I could put the unit in after watching the DVD Installation Guide.
It's basically plug and play. I suspect it will take about an hour to two hours to install. When installed the unit will have a factory look. If and when your IMS begins to fail, you will be ALERTED LOUDLY AND VISUALLY something is going wrong.
Part of our testing involves installing a factory IMS bearing on the brink of failure in a perfectly good M96 engine.....in fact it is MY ENGINE on the line.
Yes, it's unnerving putting down a deposit on a product that has yet to be fully revealed. Remember, you are buying a Flat6 Product developed by Jake Raby. The deposit is 100% refundable if you are not happy with the price or product once the marketing gurus launch the campaign. We don't want anyone to be unhappy with our service or product.
The pre-order campaign is to gauge market interest and give us a guide on how many units to order from the manufacturer. The more units we buy, the better pricing we get and can pass on to the retail buyer. We are in active discussions with a few distributors for mass orders.
If you pre-order you will not only receive the Rennlist pricing, you will avoid any retail markup by distributors which Jake will have to also go by in his Flat6 store (assuming negotiations work out with the distributors). Not trying to hard sell anyone, as thats not my style. It's a hell of a good product backed by a 150% guarantee if your IMS fails.
I told Jake that some people will simply buy the product to get the discount on the IMSRS. That will be Jake's call on whether or not he will allow that to happen.
James
The retail price point will be +/- 389.95
The latest version of the product is even more diverse and incorporates a feature to test the unit's function from the driver's seat. This inclusion was required to give a full sense of security to the driver at all times, on demand. We decided to incorporate the changes on all the systems and it did increase price, but seriously increased the function of the unit.
James and I are discussing the possibility of sharing the technology earlier, since most of the protection is in place. I don't want people to believe this is a Rabbit in a hat, but I also don't want to get ripped off... I have had that happen with EVERY innovation I have ever created and it is so sickening that words can't explain it. This is a very simple arrangement, but affords unreal protection and sense of security. My background, experience and our exposure to so many failed engines all coupled together to create this product.
This is a true game changer for the M96 powered Porsche, it
could
stop the downward plummet of vehicle values and will give the sense of security that a car can be operated without the necessity of an IMS retrofit. As it stands NO VEHICLE leaves my facility without an IMSR procedure, but this product eliminates that necessity.
I personally love the suspense and don't mind waiting another month.
That being said if you've got all the legals in place, and the patent is yours - then what have you got to lose (aside from the suspense/wow factor) - who knows maybe it will build it up even more.... and you'll get flooded with pre-orders.
I'll probably pop one in (but don't have a rocker spot available, I guess it will have to go in the arm rest).
Great great great great stuff I tell you.
I really dislike the suspense... I hate that we have to go through all of these channels just to ensure we are not ripped off.
Honestly, right now we can't handle the added calls and emails that the unveiling will create and we don't have the webpage, logos or even the absolute product name decided upon yet.
When I develop I care NOTHING about anything except making the best damn product I can, testing it to infinity and then I worry about selling it. I am driven by the challenges, not by the money and thats why what we create is always worth more than it's purchase price.
owe owe owe... I have a question....
if you buy it for the ~$400 and install it...then it "catches" an impending failure and you do the IMSR, whould you:
a. keep the system on the car to monitor the new ceramic IMS
b. remove the system and return or re-sell to someone who doesnt have the IMSR yet
I'm a thinkin over here
Jake or James, Will this device alert me upon installation if my IMS is less that perfect. I wonder if it works off a base line established at the time of installation and needs to degrade further based on that reading. I'm eagerly waiting and now find that I dive my car less (fear driven). Am I the only one driving less in anticipation?
I guess it would be weird if you installed the wiring and hooked up the switch and light only to power it all up and the light glowed RED. HOLY CRAP - what now - a wiring issue or your bearing is already puking!?
I like the rocker switch idea - as I have a couple spots on the dash I can use but the concept of the switch... is it to turn off the warning light and operation? If so, why give that option? I would wire it straight into the ignition so as long as the car is running in 'run' mode - the system is armed.
Or is the switch a 'test' point - only to confim the 'item' is working?
What time frames are we talking about when this light comes on? Is it seconds and get the hell over to the side of the road and shut off or is it drive to your indy/dealer slowly? Know what I mean? There are warnings and then there are WARNINGS...
Well, I am usually never an early adopter of anything, but this sounds better and better with each update we get from Jake and James.
Count me in. How do I make my deposit?
The system features the ability to do perform a system test with the press of the two position momentary rocker switch. When this is done the wiring and all associated components are tested for continuity. The amber light turns red and the warning buzzer sounds, when the switch is released the light returns to amber, the buzzer goes silent and the system is armed.
The system will run at all times while the ignition switch is in the "on" position and cannot be disarmed. This is done to ensure that the system is never accidentally left in the off position, resulting in an engine failure with no pre-warning.
Knowing what I know about these failures and the way this system works, when I get a warning I'd shut the car off immediately and call the 24 hour Flat 6 hotline for assistance concerning what should be done next to avoid complete engine loss.
When the system gives an alert the driver/ owner has many choices. I'd never promote trading a car in or selling it with an issue, because I HATE people that hand off their problems to others. I have to admit that the one person that we showed this to looked at it and 5 seconds later he said "Jake, that light isn't a light telling you that you have an engine problem, thats the "trade in light", when it goes off you take the car to carmax and get what you can for it... The scary part is this came from someone who we approached as a potential large scale distributor of these units! Needles to say, he won't be carrying any of these units..
In reality with this technology you have a CHOICE concerning what to do before the engine is a complete waste. The unit pops a warning and alerts the driver and smart ones will stop the car in their tracks and NOT do what we see people do all the time and drive to a shop. The system in some situations could give miles of advanced notice, in others it could only give seconds. When the light pops and buzzer sounds, stop, call Flat 6 and then have the car towed to an M96 engine specialist for diagnosis and to have an IMSR carried out, thus saving the expenditure for a new engine.
IMS bearing failures are all a tad different, so one must believe that an alarm is the "big one" and take necessary action. Continuing to drive the car to a shop can cost you 15,000+ dollars and it is simply not smart.
I appreciate all of you wanting to place deposits on systems, this is giving James and I a good idea of how the technology is being appreciated thus far, but lets wait a few days and work out the exact prices and delivery dates before we commit with deposits.
As per ivangenes comment, I was thinking along the same lines.
For those of us that have had the IMSR upgrade installed in the car already, and the failure rate (as far as I know) of the ceramic bearing assembly is zero, why would you need to install the early warning system (EWS) ?
Unless of course the EWS can help predict similar types of componant failure .....
Details concerning integration of this technology couppled with an IMSR will be released at a later date.
The IMSR maintains a 100% effectiveness rating.
Hi Jake,
I'm interested; will your system work with my setup? I have a 2003 C-2 that has a reman engine installed in 9/06. IMS went at 23K and was replaced under the factory warranty. The engine has parts with dates in May of 2006. I assume I have the IMS that cannot be upgraded without a complete teardown. I currently have 40K miles on this "new" engine.
Will your system still be a DIY and will it work? Thanks.
YES it will integrate with your vehicle and yee it will work..
However, if you apply the technology and receive an alert that ends up being "the big one" nothing can be done for your engine in regard to a retrofit.
In the 2006 and later 997 and ALL reman engines the key benefit of this technology will be to identify an issue before complete failure occurs. Though these engines can't be retrofitted, the engine can be stopped before every part of it sees the impacts of a catastrophic IMS bearing failure.
(or in these cars those with less than ground level morals could consider the alarm as a "trade in warning")
This technology will integrate with ALL Porsche 996/997, Boxster and Cayman models. It can even be applied to the DFI cars up to 2011 models. The only difference is the dash warning light styles. The DFI cars may not have an IMS, but the system can still benefit them.
Long story short, EVERY M96/M97 powered Porsche can fit this system simply, easily and at a cost of less than 400.00 retail as a DIY.
Thanks, Jake, for taking the time to answer our questions.
Sounds good except for the fact that there is no retrofit kit for my application.
If I get the big one and shut the engine off once the light triggers, I could then pull the engine and ship it to you for an upgraded engine (core or exchange it). Would you have any need for a '03 3.6L 996 reman 2006 engine with an IMS failure; if so how much credit?
You really won't need one.. It is seriously that simple.
I have such a hard time "approving" shops, I have had less than favorable experiences when doing this.
Chris' shop will definitely be on the list.
I may end up having "round ups" where we'll gather a group of cars from a certain area at a small event and we explain the technology, how it works and then do a mass installation of units all in one day.
yippy - Porsche cowboy days.... if this happens I will be there to see all my good ppeps getting their cars dooded up so they can sleep at night and start them without that little Q: is this the time?
Jake, considering the time factor of the audible and visual alert "miles or seconds" to detonation, and you are the type of driver who likes to keep one eye on the road and the other on the exposed thigh of your passenger while blasting a Snoop Dogg tune ...........can your unit be hard wired to the steering wheel airbag ?
?
what?
maybe deploy the airbag to get your attention? Sorry but I hope that was being humourous. I was thinking engine OFF wired in, but that could be dangerous so dont think that will be the case...also electric shocking gas pedal?
seriously I am thinking the detection system allows you more than enough time to get the car off the road and maybe even to the shop .... that is somewhat the point of "early detection"
The early detection should be enough to allow time to drive to a shop, however I can't recommend this. I know how quickly an IMS failure turns from bad to horrible.
This is why we will be offering the hotline, so those that get a warning can call and talk to an expert, give symptoms and explain the intensity of the light on their dash aw well as the audible alarm. At this point we can offer application specific directions as to what can be done..
I get really tired of people driving these cars to their death trying to make it to a shop, trying to save a 200 dollar tow bill KILLS engines on a daily basis.
Yes, in testing the system has proven that "lesser threats" can be identified by a less intense red light and by a lower tone being emitted from the warning buzzer.
It was designed to be on/off but has proven to be a bit variable.
Guys,
I am DYING to share more on this product with you, but Jake (and the marketing consultants) would shoot me if I do. For those of you who know Jake and his rather extensive collection of firearms, I will opt to keep my mouth shut for now.
This device has come together like a dream....from design, to testing, to production. A lot of hours, late nights, hard work and stead fast determination have gone into its creation.
I am extremely proud to be a part of it. Anyone that owns a M96 powered engine is a absolute FOOL not to purchase this device.
As the bean counter in this operation, I pushed Jake for a higher retail (as it is justified) but he believes in collecting rolls of nickels not just a single dime laying flat. Good for Jake and good for the consumer.
James
Well considering you can source a bearing kit for a little more than double what the suggested MSRP is on the detection unit... albeit - the DIY retrofit is fairly technically complex but do-able for most intelligent shade tree's. I wonder how many people in that case would just go for the retrofit rather than the detector. (not talking about sending a tube in for retrofit, just the bearing replacement). Of course, having a shop do the IMSR is considerably more than the detector...
I for one want the peace of mind on the ceramic retrofit I did, and will pre-order.
Smart men though keeping the price low - the more the merrier (didn't you ever watch Billy Mays?). Who knows, perhaps Porsche will OEM it or offer to buy flat 6? Doubt it.
Congrats for this new product.
The IMS retrofit/upgrade contributes to be as an active seccurity system, but combined to this new prevention system will give us the ultimate solution to avoid an engine failure.
I am installing a unit today into the first beta testing vehicle...
I don't know how much longer we can keep this quiet, its killing me to share what this is, how it works and what it can do!
I bought my 2003 C2 in Jan and had planned to do the IMS. I got the car from a dealer with no service records but I was able to track down the previous owner who told me he had just had a new clutch installed.( He wasn't aware of the IMS issue) He also sent me the service documentation. Since it has a brand new clutch, I've been reluctant to do the IMS. Needless to say, I've continued to worry. What a relief with this device. I can't wait.
Sounds like a very exciting product! Any idea of false alarm rate? Or it's so reliable that something is
definitely
wrong with the engine when the alarm goes off?
Good question. I'm curious as to the
likelyhood
and
causes
of possible false alarms in two scenarios:
1.
False Positive
(Type 1 error or alpha) i.e. The buzzer goes off but your engine is fine.
2.
False Negative
(Type 2 error or beta) i.e. The buzzer is silent but your IMS bearing fails.
Maybe a bit premature to ask such detailed questions, but hey, this thread is many pages long already
Similar thoughts here. I just assume that 2 will be really low (<< 10%) for this product to make sense. 1 is interesting since it involves overhead to tow and inspect the car even when the engine is fine. I do not expect numerical answers since the product is brand new but some qualitative descriptions would be very helpful.
There are no false alarms. If the unit alarms you have an issue that requires attention, that could be as little as some simple service work or as much as an IMS Retrofit. All of this will be released in the future and will be clearly addressed in the video and the instructions.. Those who purchase the support package will end up with a lifeline to call to receive direct assistance from an M96 specialist 24 hours a day..
If you have an IMS bearing failure and you are the original purchaser of the technology from my company (not one of the wholesalers) and you experience an IMS bearing Failure, you will receive a 200% money back guarantee toward an IMSR or an engine solution. The details of this will also be released soon. The purchase of this item will just plain make sense.
With this unit in place, if an alarm sounds you have an occurrence that requires attention- period. Those who purchase the support package and the system from Flat Six directly will get expert assistance if and when the alarm ever sounds.
As for beta testing, we do all our own lab and road testing for all products in house. We will have very few beta testers because we have done so much development work already and because beta testers usually don't give the feedback they should for the discounts they receive. I want any beta testers to be close to our cacility so we can monitor the engines very closely. I take R&D seriously and won't sell anything that doesn't work. Never have. Never will.
Well it looks like with all the hopla and drooling and members trying to throw money at Jake to get their hands on the proverbial "technology", it just cost all future buyers an extra $100.00.
Thanks guys!
Phil
The final changes to the system that incorported a means of testing the system from the dash added quite a bit of money to each system. Other increases came from improvements in the hardware of the system.
The final changes are made now and the pricing is set. The additions that we incorporated just made sense and I know that it made the product better and was worth more than what it cost to incorporate into each unit.
Being able to press a switch and test the entire system for function is priceless to the driver that is looking for a sense of security from this system while driving their car.
Less than one hour... But we are experienced. I see no way that this install could take more than two hours at absolute max. With the exception of one wrench the list of tools required to do this job can be found in a leatherman multi-tool.
Thats no joke at all.
As for a less complete kit for less money, thats not a possibility at this time. We want the system to provide a sense of security that can only be delivered through a push to test feature that tests the system in it's entirety, from the Driver's seat.
Jake,
Put your gun up and post the video that was FINALLY edited today. Everyone on this board is waiting to see this device in action!
Guys, it's done and I've seen the device in a 996 Millennium Edition. Its simple to install, easy to operate, and you don't even know its in the car.
James
The first production unit as installed into a 2000/ 996. This installation was carried out with a leatherman multi-tool and two wrenches. We can now install these units in 30 minutes.
Look how clean and seamless this engine failure detection system integrates into the stock 996 dash. When engine failure or issues are imminent, get a visual and audible alarm with enough warning to safely exit the roadway and call for assistance
I had problems embedding the video, sorry.
http://youtu.be/35o5r1HUMuI
Now we need to shoot the instructional DVD, write up the instructions and await the first big load of units ready to be distributed. We have a car heading out on a 5- 7,000 mile trip with the unit installed next week as a final test for the unit before we make our cross country run and debut this bad boy.... I take development seriously, 1,000 miles a day kind of seriously!
The line starts here...
I think it uses "The Force" to tell me when my car is about to explode if I read that video correctly.
I am your father.
Oh, and your car is about to blow up.
Looks clean, great job!
Jake, here's your video emebeded.
The installation certainly looks clean, but the video leaves out a ton of detail. How does the unit install? How does it detect an IMS problem? What is the price for the unit? What is the specific guarantee it will function as advertised?
Thanks for embedding the video.. I have no idea why it would not embed for me, I do that all the time!
Yep. On purpose, because it isn't time to show more. We have been spending ALL the time on development, testing and integration of the system into the vehicles and ZERO time on marketing, brochures, details and anything related to sales. I am the developer, I suck at using buzz words and making people all warm and fuzzy inside. :-)
If I shared that the product would be unveiled completely, we want that to happen in Excellence Magazine.
Same answer as above and something people have been guessing at for 6 weeks here on RL in PMs to me.
Retail 389.95, RL members will get a healthy discount and will be the first able to buy the units.
Thats James' task.. He is the one heading up the money end of this and his job has just started.
My job has ended, its developed, tested and the first production unit has been sold, now I can go back to development on the 2011 DFI engine thats on my bench downstairs.
Unfortunately my entire dash is littered with switches.
This newfangled whizbang gizmo will have to go in the center console below window actuator controls, or perhaps I will have to ascertain a new location for one of my pre-existing rocker switch placements.
I presume the rocker switch will be available to source in both gloss and matte black.
How difficult is it to make the system check automatic so everytime i turn my key to the ON position but before cranking the engine, this device will do an auto check just like I pressed that button briefly?
Only gloss black. The unit can go in dash or in console with equal simplicity.
This is all about engine protection, not bling or sex appeal.. It just so happened that we were able to design a switch that fits in the dash easily and look stock.
No auto check will be available, doing so is too complicated from model to model and car to car. This way you can test the unit at ANY TIME, even while driving.
Using the Gartner Technology Hype Curve, I'd say this one is approaching the "Peak of Inflated Expectations".
Nice marketing job, but so far I have seen a switch with a light that changes color, and beeps.
I am curious as to how one induces an IMS failure in order to test this, and how many cars had to be wasted in order to get a proper test sampling.
Can you share your test methodology so that those who are interested can get a sense of how well this has been tested? That shouldn't give away any trade secrets.
The webpage for the unit will include the test data, methodology and all the things you have asked for..
Inducing death is fairly easy, when you have saved as many engines with impending IMS failures as we have and have a whole slew of bearings that are within just a few thousand miles of complete failure. Basically extract a perfectly good bearing, replace it with one thats mostly spent, then throw my Nephew in the car and have him drive till the car stops.. If the light pops red before the engine dies, its pretty much self explanatory. This will also give an indication of how much time after the light pops and alarm sounds that one has before the engine suffers a full on engine failure.
This video wasn't meant to be explanatory, it was meant to be a teaser to illustrate just how seamless the dash interface installs and functions. It was also to prove that we are making headway toward a product release and that this actually exists.
This development began three years ago. We are known for true innovation with these engines and trust me, this product has to make me happy before it falls into anyone's hands. Thats very hard to do and so far has required 6 revisions this year alone before getting to this stage of completion.
I know exactly what makes the IMS failure occur and what happens before, during and after one of the episodes, that knowledge coupled to some previous knowledge and experience I have had lead me to this system.
Some people will call it hype, there are always 10% of people that find something wrong with everything. Trying to please everyone is a really big mistake.
Everything I have purchased (and read about others) who have purchased that comes out of Flat 6 simply just works.
Have you been on their website to read some of Jake's excerpts?
This business man is a religious fanatic that will stop at nothing to reach the complete truth and provide you with absolute certainty at every corner.
Sincerely.
(and I bet I could get 10,000 people or more to say the same).
I'm just asking the basic questions. At the selling price, I figure their gross profit will cover 1 motor for every 40 to 50 units sold.
I don't know what % of these cars actually experience the failure as there are still a lot of them on the road. Even if it only detects 50% of impending failures, it's probably a good risk adjusted business model.
I respect the approach on the marketing. I'm just curious as to how rigorous the testing was.
I hope it saves some folks a lot of money and hassle.
SSST, Your questions are fine.. This seems too good to be true and someone should be asking questions. I honestly expected the detractors, vendor haters and trolls to show up weeks ago in this thread and I have been glad that they haven't.
Remember: I own an engine development and production company, this unit isn't being purchased from Wal-Mart.. If something happens we want to know how, why and when and we have the means to support the product better than anyone else in the world should an engine go south while under protection.
My business model has always been to sell things that work.. Because of that we generally don't have to advertise to stay 6 months backlogged and our reputation precedes us on just about every Continent. I developed the extraction procedure for the IMS Retrofit technology and designed the first puller for widespread bearing retrofits and those are much like this technology, simple, smart and effective.
All I do here is development work. This technology was my idea from start to finish and if it fails, I fail and failure is not an option to a person with my background. How much money it generates doesn't matter to me at all, how many engines it saves is the only thing that matters.
I'm not trying to be a detractor or even challenge your experience.
However, you are using an interactive internet forum, catering to technically curious Porsche owners, to build some interest in advance of a product release. I don't expect you to give up any trade secrets, but I think it's fair game to ask questions given this is an interactive venue.
If your answer is be patient and all wil be revealed, that is fine. But you have to admit, what you have provided to date could be viewed as snake oil given all the fear over IMS failures.
Your loyal customers are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. The more skeptical among us... we'll just have to wait an see.
At any rate, I really do hope this works out for everyone. I know the IMS issue is a big worry to many.
As an unabashed capitalist, I admire the interest you have generated in advance of the product release. Well done and good luck with it.
If only the loyalist purchase these units, the numbers will more than exceed my expectations..
Be patient and it will be revealed and when it is, the descriptions and details will be explicit and all completed for posting.
The IMS issue is real, I have 3 cars inbound right now with them, all were scheduled today and this technology would have saved all 3 of them.. The bearings may have failed, but the issue would have been caught prior to the big bang, resulting in the possibility of salvation through an IMSR procedure.. Now all 3 of them are toast, they were driven to death.
Being somewhat questioned is actually a welcome thing to me.. It means that we are close enough to release that people are taking it seriously...
Very simple explanation in the video.
It looks simple, as It should be.
I think that It will took one hour to be installed for those who know how to install a dash button. I suppose that people who did the rear wing button conversion will do it very easy.
It's a pity only have a gloss finish, but the most important thing is the protection, not aesthetical devices.
I have an hybrid bearing installed with a 'homemade' reinforced bearing support.
This device will be the perfect symbiosis to "rest in pace" about IMS issues at all
A Soloporsche user opened a thread in our spanish forum, and we are following with attention. I'll post this vid.
Thanks!
Jake,
Is this same thread in the Boxster/S forum? Any way to put a link over there to keep those guys up to date on the product release.
I still question the whole marketing approach, but I guess thats why you paid the "gurus" for the campaign. I like the idea of the Excellence ad to announce the product, but I along with countless others have no patience.
SSST makes valid points and I would feel the same way if I hadn't been working on the project with you.
I am hoping to have the product warranty/guarantee done by the end of the week. Jake, would it be ok to post that information on the forum?
James
JAmes, I believe that some input from a great group of guys, (like those who frequent this forum) could help us develop some ideas for the guarantees for the unit as they may bring up some points that we have not considered..
If you guys have some ideas about what you'd think would be fair for a system like this, based on the price of the unit please feel free to post these here and we'll talk about them. There are no promises that we'll use the ideas, but we will be open to hearing them. I have always been an Enthusiast operating in the Industry supporting the cars that I love, so hearing your ideas is something that we'd be open to.
Concerning installation:
The unit is self contained and stand alone. To begin the installation pop off the dash or console panel where you'd wish to locate the rocker switch. Pop out one of the switch blanks and install the rocker switch. Remove the wire from pin 3 of an adjacent rocker switch and plug the yellow wire from the IMS Guardian wire harness into that position, then connect the wire that you removed from that switch into the IMS Guardian harness. This effectively provides the necessary power to the IMS Guardian in the simplest fashion possible and doesn't even require splicing or crimping of wired in the dash.
Once the switch is installed and wire harness is routed, simply connect the red wire into the fuse panel using the supplied hardware and the console power portion of the install is complete. All of this can be done with a leatherman tool to this point.
The audible alarm and circuit board are easy to locate and they are contained in a single unit incorporated into the harness. In the install that we did yesterday I simply slid the circuit box / buzzer into the open space behind the dash and then popped the cover back on and it fit like a glove and is plenty loud, even with the radio playing. This keeps the install quick, clean and simple while retaining full function.
Once complete route the wire harness through the back side of the dash or console and tuck the wires away neatly. We have used heavy grade heat shrink to complete the harness to add durability and ease for routing the wire bundle.
Route the wire aft to the engine bay where the final termination point will be, cut the excess wire off and install the supplied connectors for integration into the sensor portion of the system. This completes the installation of the IMS Guardian.
We are currently working on the webpage for the product. It will include a specific web forum for discussion as well as product support for the buyers/ installers. We will also offer telephone support and a 24 hour hotline for those who experience an IMS Alert from the IMS Guardian unit and need direction as to what should be done.
This has been a lot of fun to develop and test, which makes perfecting it so much easier. The integration into the factory dash could not be cleaner and the system could not be any simpler to install. Making a good product is one challenge, but making it work while retaining simplicity is always what separates the men from the boys.
All that said, I believe that the majority of the users on this forum can install this unit in about an hour using the DVD that we will be providing. The very first one that we installed only took 2.5 hours and that was slowed down by taking notes, having to figure out the smartest way to integrate the wires into the switches and dash and etc. We can now complete an installation in about 30 minutes.
We are going to stay away from gimmicks and fine print, thats the way that I do everything.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you mentioned that there is no automatic checking of the IMS? The user would have to click on the button in the dash to get a reading? Is that correct? I hope not since this is something that can happen at any time while driving.
Fernando.
The unit test feature is just to ensure the detection system is functioning properly and is ready to alert you in case of a real disaster.
You don't have to press anything to get the warning if it actually detects a problem, it will go off "on it's own" and works "all of the time" without you doing anything.
You are confusing the posts earlier where someone suggested an enhancement for the unit so that it does a self check periodically or when the car first starts.
It is possible to swap the cover on a Porsche rocker switch.
You need good vision and a magnifying lens, very small flat head screwdrivers, and nimble fingers. And of course, a donor switch. I've done it before.
I think the guarantee should include a free replacement engine if it does not properly detect an IMS failure. Of course, then you would need a black box to record the events since it doesn't sound like you are integrating into the car's DME... then again we haven't heard the full product details.
The wording is going to be tricky because of that, I would guess you're going to have those people who "didn't hear or see" the alarm. To that point if it were my product I would heavily disclaim the liability onto the end user that the detection system is only as good as their own recognition capabilities - and as you've made it sound - sometimes there are only seconds to react. If you're going 80mph, only seconds to pull off the road and shut the car off is pretty dangerous under some circumstances. Unless of course you have a 7th gear (manual gbox coast gear).
Jake, is the switch a standard Porsche rocker switch? If so is there any reason why we couldn't also connect up the dimming wires from an adjacent switch - otherwise that LED during night driving is probably going to burn through our retinas - kinda like in the movie Xmen with the dude that has to wear those glasses otherwise he'll burn right through stuff.
So, as I work as a diamond jewelery engraver, I have good magnifying glass lens, and nimble fingers.
I didn't know that we could change the switch front part
Thanks!
If it's the stock Porsche lighted switch (and it appears from the video that it is) you'll hardly notice it. I have a similar switch set up in my 986 to turn on (amber) when the rear spoiler deploys and turn off when the spoiler retracts and I only notice it if I'm looking right at it..
Hah, yeah you probably don't notice it because a standard on/off lighted switch is wired to the dimmer circuit. Try driving at night and turn your lights off, you'll see how bright those little LEDs can get !!!
Anyways if it is a standard Porsche switch (I guess why wouldn't it be?), it's easy enough to wire it up to the dimmer circuit. You can just steal one or two more wires from an adjacent switch.
Jake,
Being that you have to press the switch before you ignition on.
Could we just not wire across stage 1 of the ignition as sometimes we are going to forget to press a button?.
It would be a simple, no margin for error system as you need to pass stage 1 on the ignition to start the car!.
we still would have the function to test on the rocker.
Ummn, the reason why we tie into the supply power from the adjacent switch is so the dimming feature is retained in the IMS Guardian light, just like the rest of the dash lights..
One thing that there is no cure for is STUPID.. Unless someone is both deaf and blind they can't miss the IMS Alert given by the IMS Guardian. The fact is that today a lot of people aren't honest, so unless one of us were sitting in the passenger seat of their car no one would really know what happened.
We can't cover every stupid little challenge, but I believe that the smart guys understand the IMS failure and will be attuned to this product visually and audibly. The system requires driver input to save the engine, we simply provide the means of driver notification. You can lead a Horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
What you have seen so far is the driver interface portion of the development, the business end of things is even simpler and easier to understand. No, I do not care about matching your switches or anything other than saving your engine through early detection of problems and advanced notification.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PRESS THE SWITCH UNLESS YOU WISH TO
TEST
THE CIRCUIT!!!
When the ignition is powered the system is armed automatically, the driver needs to do nothing unless they wish to gain an additional sense of security that the wiring and sensors are connected and functioning properly!
Thats already done! The system does not require driver interface to be armed! ONLY TO BE TESTED.
DONE!!
Yes you do.
Just to be clear, the rocker switch only tests for connectivity. This is something derived from Aviation as all switches are "press to test" allowing the pilot to carry out thorough evaluations on the systems onboard during pre=flight or checklist operations. Having this feature ensures the system is connected, but it doesn't ever have to be used for the system to be armed and effectively establish an early warning for an impending Engine Failure.
Get it?
I think that all the products made for saving the engine are for those who like, love and enjoy our cars.
People who is concerned about IMS failures, with information enough to know what are we talking about.
So I think that if you appreciate your car, you'll be doing the test check everytime you'll be starting the engine on as a mechanical function of your brain, similar to change gear while driving (you do it without thinking, just as a repetitive exercise)l
Yes, this is very correct.
In fact I added the audible alarm to the design for safety, since we did not want people driving around staring at their dash all day and crashing their car. The audible alarm actually has a secondary benefit in the fact that based upon threat level it can be faint or very loud and intense like in the video. That loud and intense sound comes every time the system is pressed to be tested, so the driver will be attuned to it and know what a worst case scenario alert sounds like.
As you can see, it was easy to put 3 years of thought and development into this.
I'm sure that the original idea was very very easy. I don't know how It works, but must be based on the same way that other engine's sensor.
It will send the info of a wrong function to the dash. Very easy idea... yes,
but I'm sure that developing this, would have been very very
difficult
. And I'm sure that you'll be upgrading this kit in the future looking for the perfection.
I heard a soloporsche user (aeronautics engineer) talking about ultrasonics machines to detect bad funcionaities in the IMS area last year. But the challenge was hot to make it... Just an idea.
Your 'basic' idea, is probably the most revolutionary tool we have to keep our engines saved (besides retrofit kits, optimum maintenance, etc). So I'm one of those happiest 996 owners who applaud this 'new tool' as a real innovation.
When released everyone will be very blown away by how simple it is.. I am not the only one that has thought of this means of engine failure detection/ advanced warning because three forum members on various forums have PMed me their guesses that were spot on. Those people do not know who they are and I will not tell them until the product is released...Everyone who guessed got the same response from me, right or wrong.
Then they get one for free! Having others guess what this is correctly made me fell very good, because it was proof of concept and just made common sense.
I received over 400 guesses, but only 3 have been correct
Great idea Jake to open the warranty drafting to what those that buy the product expect in their warranty.....I kind of feel like the cook in the Dominoes Pizza Commercial where the users get to "Rate Tate's Chicken".
For starters:
1. Flat6 will be offering a minimum of 100% (probably closer to 150%) credit towards an IMSRP if your IMS fails while being monitored by the IMS Guardian. This service would have to be performed by Flat6 Innovations.
2. If your engine fails while using the IMS Guardian we WILL NOT replace your engine. There are 22 modes of failure for the M96 engine. In addition, what would keep someone who has an IMS Failure Alert to continue driving their 100,000 mile car until failure occurs and asking for a Flat6 CPO Engine. Jake's no idiot boys.
3. If the IMS Guardian has a manufacturers defect for a specific period of time TBD, it will be replaced with a new unit.
4. Flat6 will be offering a HotLine to discuss alerts of the unit. We can advise what course of action needs to be taken.
5. The IMS Guardian is NOT FOOL proof. However, the product will be able to alert the user of imminent failure. Whether or not you respond to the ALERT is up to the operator of the car. If your wife is driving your Porsche and hears the alert and comes home to tell you the radio is making some loud crazy noise....don't blame her for being an idiot, blame yourself for letter her drive your car without proper training. She may have compromised the engine at that point in time.
6. The IMS Guardian will NOT save or solve the factory IMS bearing issue. The IMSRP addresses that problem. Even with an IMSRP there are 21 other identified modes of engine failure. The IMS Guardian can potentially identify 10 other potential failures. Those ten other modes failures were not the primary focus for the development of this device, but we believe can be beneficial in early detection of those failures. Testing for detection of those other ten modes of failures is proving difficult, as we are not able to manipulate failures as we can in the IMS testing.
Thats what I can share for now. Lawyers will draw up the warranty and protect Jakes interest and hard earned reputation. Paper warranties are worthless but Jake Raby's word is priceless. Just ask around the forums.
Wives will need to be trained as to what the sound is and how to respond.. We will cover this in the DVD... A sense of urgency will be key if an IMS Alert occurs.
Doing marriage counselling now too?
If I used the word 'trained' around my wife in regards to anything... I would need another device from you that detects a Tefal frying pan with lid coming towards me at a high rate of speed...
Would it make any sense to have one of these installed AFTER you have the IMSR kit installed? At that point you have an IMS upgrade - I imagine the chance of IMS failure is VERY low after having the IMSR installed.
You can have double protection through an IMSR and the IMS Guardian.
The IMS Guardian can detect other modes of failure or engine degradation, so being doubly protected does make sense.
The car we installed the system into on the video has our IMSR.
I wonder if you can modify the device to kill the fuel pump and starter relays if the red light kicks on...How many times has an M96 IMS issue occurred where restarting it put the final nail in the coffin.
It sounds like with this system you have a small window of time to either pull over and have the car towed home/indy or at the very least drive the car to your indy and pull the starter relay as to avoid any more rotation of the engine.
I'm sad I just sold my 996 as I was looking forward to installing this...I'm definitely going to let everyone with an M96 know about this especially any local PCA members.
I take it that all LNE dealers certified for IMS retros will be able to stock this IMSG device as well?
Yet again,. there is no cure for stupid... Having the system kill the engine would kill people. Imagine travellon the 5 freeway in Socal and getting an alarm that shuts the engine off while you are in the center lane of a 10 lane freeway running 90 MPH...
Exactly and based on the tone of the alert and its intensity that time can be more or less.
Thanks, they will know... Every publication we have talked to is ecstatic about this and wants to cover it ASAP.
No, we have our own dealer lists and this product will work a bit differently.. All LN Dealers will get a package in the mail, but just because they are an LN Dealer doesn't make them a Flat 6 dealer.. LN and my company develop together, but operate completely separately.
Bummer on the gloss only. Not looking for bling or sex appeal, just matching finishes. Many of our cars have the matte finish switches. Small price to pay for the great protection that is being offered.
I have the perfect solution for our wives:
We have to tell them that if the alarm buzzer is on, and they notice a red led light in the dash, It means that they will be winning a 'Manolo Blahnik' shoes if they stop the car.
And what about th heart the alarm travellingn in the highway and you are in the center lane of a 10 lane freeway running 90 MPH...
I think is a big risk to be pressed by the alarm and the trafic condition at the same time. One trained person could make a mistake and......
When you receive a phone call you can delay the answer but if you are advice about your engine is close to be destroyed your reaction could be impredictible.
Bye
???
What would you do if you got a flashing check engine light at freeway speed? Why wouldn't you do the same thing if you had an alarm from Jake's system, i.e. safetly pull over to the side of the road, stop in a place where it is safe to do so, and call for a flatbed?
Thats best case scenario.. That means the system is doing it's job and has alerted you of an engine issue that requires immediate attention.
What about the risk of traveling on that same highway and experiencing an engine failure at that same speed without any alarm? Which do you think would be more dangerous:
1- Hearing an alarm that you have trained yourself to be attuned to and have created a plan for in your head for a "what if" instance.
2- Experiencing a full blown engine failure that can send your car out of control when it spins in it's own oil that it just dumped all over the road. This instance is not just an alarm, its a big boom that sounds like a shotgun that is followed by a total loss of power and total engine loss.
Tell me which one you think is more dangerous.
18 months ago I received a call from the NTSB with questions regarding IMS bearing failures when they were investigating an occurrence that happened on a busy high speed freeway that created a 12 car pile up.
Even though a sense of urgency is required when the alarm sounds to ensure the engine can be saved without collateral damage, we'd like to think that at least 30 minutes of easy driving could be carried out before the issue becomes lethal. This is why we have the Hotline option, a true 24 hour lifeline.
The person on the other end of the hotline will base recommendations on the information the driver tells them.
But remember, there is no cure for stupid... If someone hears an alarm and loses their marbles that person doesn't have the discipline to have a driver's license in the first place!
I leave on 6.20 for a 5,000+ mile test for the system in it's production state. I will make reports from the road, but won't be stopping in to see anyone on this trip. I need to drive 5,000 miles in 5 days to get the data I need and test the final changes made to the system and sensor before we can begin sales of the system. We will do another cross country test at the end of July that will put units in the hands of shop owners and enthusiast and have a display set up to demonstrate the way the system functions.
5,000 miles in 5 days, YES I am crazy, but more determined than anything.
The more dangerous advice the Porsche DME can give to you is the low oil pressure and is only a red lamp no sound is given.
Under my personal point of view when you found a place to call the flatbed your engine will be dead.
Best regards.
Incorrect.
This system has the ability to detect engine failures 100 miles before they become harmful enough to create collateral damage that can kill the engine. This doesn't mean the driver should take their time with action, just that the system can catch the issues MILES before damage is done in **SOME** instances. In other instances the warning will give less advanced notice, but the engine can still be saved.
Remember, a team that has seen more engine failures than anyone in the world has created this device and system. We know what happens and when it happens in the four stages of IMS Bearing Failure and the system is designed to detect these traits and then send an alarm that says "take action".
A flashing CEL can come from valve timing deviations, single of multi-cylinder misfires and etc. By the time a CEL flashes engine damage is DONE.
Now, I see where this fellow is from and I see his post count and I bet I know who he is.
yea well engines die everyday... I think the system is designed to give you a warning with "some" amount of time to get stopped (as is the Porsche DME) and it will not take into account how many cars are around you or what road you are on and how much space you have to pull over... I mean if you are on a one lane bridge going 90mph in the rain at night you might be a differant case than 45 thru town.
Jake,
Does the system record any information at the time of alarm like a "black box" of sorts? If so how is it accessed? Would you know how many miles or how much time it took for someone to stop the car? The point I guess is this: What are the odds that if I do everything right, pull to the side of the road and call a flatbed, that my engine will still be toast? It seems you are guaranteeing that if do what you advise that the engine is salvagable. I am assuming IMS failure not other modes of failure. Seems that it must record some information for your purposes, warranty, etc.
Thanks.
Look,
most
people are perfectly capable of reacting and responding in a reasonable manner to alarms indications and warnings (radar detector, CEL, low fuel indicator, low tire pressure indicator, etc) when they are operating a motor vehicle. If you honestly believe that you will freak out behind the wheel due to a simple audio and visual alarm indication, perhaps the device is not for you.
I think the idea here is that it is a means of advanced warning that we haven't yet seen for IMS failures. We get the warning light - as Jake said - in some cases 100 miles before it turns to disaster.
We don't have the full details yet, but it doesn't sound like there is a black box or integration with the DME event recording, take a look at post 249 and especially 257 - it basically says:
"The IMS Guardian is NOT FOOL proof. However, the product will be able to alert the user of imminent failure. Whether or not you respond to the ALERT is up to the operator of the car."
Just my opinion - but at the price point and possible profit margin, to add memory to the control box or reverse engineer/integrate with the DME's flash recording - although NEAT - would probably cost a lot more money and development time. Who knows though, perhaps we'll all be surprised.
In other cases from Jake's earlier posts it sounds like there might only be seconds to respond - in which case - if you aren't fast enough certainly the scenario you pointed out above could happen. It would warn you, you would react - but perhaps your reaction wouldn't be fast enough to avert a financial disaster. Of course, Jake's crew are miracle workers and I'm certain that reacting as soon as the warning comes off will probably mean less of a chance of replacement engine and increase the chance of saving your engine.
Personally - assuming it is safe to do - if I ever hear the alarm - I'm turning the engine off as quickly as possible, car in neutral - and coast to where I can stop safely. Done it before for other reasons.
Regarding the gloss to matte switch cover swap... even though it can be done, one thing I forgot about is the painted "IMS" switch label. Not that it is impossible to paint or stick on an "IMS" label to a matte cover, it just makes doing that swap more difficult. Or you could always go stealth mode and have an unlabeled switch - which might be kinda cool - assuming the other drivers (wives) have all been trained.
Look, the warnings (radar detector, CEL, low fuel indicator, low tire pressure indicator) you mean can not cost to you life (for blokcage of the engine) or some k of dollars in the best of the cases and for this reason your reaction could not be the same.
In the other hand I do not want to focus if the alarm could be usefull o dangerous for the owner. For me is more interesting to know is the thousand of miles made to test the device was made with an engine :
a) in perfect conditions to check wrong alarms.
b) With a used bearing that is in very bad condition waiting for to destroy the engine to test the effectiveness of the IMSG.
Only to check the capabilities of this new device.
Best regards.
eltiolavara - look at post 161 for your answer.
https://rennlist.com/forums/8605733-post161.html
"Part of our testing involves installing a factory IMS bearing on the brink of failure in a perfectly good M96 engine.....in fact it is MY ENGINE on the line."
Other posts as well... "3 years of development" ... "driving a car 5000 miles" ... etc. etc. etc.
Hi Jake - I've rethought my guess about the technology and I am PMing you. Is the contest still open??
5 days for a 5000 mile road test eh? Sounds like a fun week.
Will you not play the stereo at all so you can monitor the sound of the engine directly?
Sorry you can understand that I have some questions about this new device. I spent more that 20 years in machine maintenance and I surprice how a device that cost some hundred of dollars is capable to check the situation of a bearing with a accrary of "100 miles".
Using diferents ways like ultrasounds, vibrations, temperature you need a very expensive device and a very trained technician to check aproximately the expected life of a bearing.
I am not a fellow I only want information to decide my purschase.
I think we are going to be pleasantly reminded that the car has a few "ultrasound vibration temperature" sensors in it already.
Given the amount of experience Jake's shop has with these failures, knows enough to know that when the car reports certain things from these various sensors, it generally means impending doom for a bearing - be it 1 mile or 100 - to what degree of accuracy - I might agree with you eltiolavara - if you had very sophisticated tools (we aren't sure yet if Jake is adding a new sensor or using existing) I'm sure you could obtain a much more accurate estimates before failure. :-)
Not to mention, this is the experience we are buying from Flat 6. Because of their years of product development we don't have to be a very trained technician to interpret the data - his device is doing that for us.
I personally would rather have 1 mile of warning than 0 miles of warning.
The system has one black box, what it does you will learn later when the time comes.
If the person doesn't make the right decisions the engine will be compromised, the technology cannot and will not make up for bad decisions of drivers. The principal object of the IMS Alert Hotline is to provide support to the drivers have received an IMS Alert..
In this situation a credit (TBD) will be offered to the owner of the device toward engine repairs or replacements performed or purchased through Flat 6 Innovations to remedy the situation. These will be covered directly and thoroughly with no fine print in the coming days.
.
Absolutely. Engines are mechanical and no two failures are the same, so results will always vary. With ANY ENGINE there are no guarantees, even F1 and NASCAR engines fail while under live telemetry with thousands of Engineers having developed them.
The system is being employed to assist with advanced warning and I will tell you now that all 4 cars that are inbound here with IMSBF occurrences would have thrown an IMS Alert based on the symptoms the driver's have relayed to me through my consultation this week. That would have saved roughly sixty thousand dollars worth of lost engines for less than 1600 dollars of products purchased.
You must be realistic.. People will always try to take advantage of situations, companies and guarantees when multi-thousands of dollars are on the line. The means that we will utilize to keep people honest is still being devised.
I will be a man on a mission. My trip will end near Ivangene hence the reason that I will stop by to see him.. I need focus and won't be stopping and shaking hands on this trip, that comes after the product is released. 5,000 miles in 5 days is my self imposed goal to push through this and test the final changes made to two aspects of the system.
A sense of urgency is the best policy. Passive drivers thinking that nothing is wrong, or those in disbelief that "This is happening to them" are responsible for almost ALL of the engines that we see that cannot be saved after an IMSBF.
IMS Bearing Failure is a Heart Attack for your engine, consider the IMS Alert the Chest Pain that comes just before that.. If you keep running the IMS Guardian will do nothing to help the situation.
Exactly. Performing an IMSR is a miracle that we do everyday. There will always be less than perfect scenarios and we have the flexibility to deal with these deviations, we already do it everyday with people all over the world.
Exactly. You will then open the drivers door and refer to the IMS GUardian Installation decal located in the door jamb, noting the serial number for your IMS Guardian system. Then call the Hotline and speak to someone just as experienced as I am. If its in the middle of the night you will probably speak directly to me. After I take a second to wake up I will then ask you some symptoms and ask you to perform a press to test of the system WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING. If this press to test is carried out and the result is a red LED that shuts off when the rocker switch is actuated this will ensure the issue is real and that action is necessary. Based on the situation at hand and the answers to the questions you are asked, coupled to the intensity of the audible and visual alarms you will be directed whether you could drive the car to a shop, have it towed or etc at your own risk. This would only pertain to those who purchase the support package at the time the IMS Guardian is purchased. Those who do not will have to make their own decisions and act based on their best judgement.
-------------
I
Ever had a blown tire before?? If you have what did you do? Hazards are real, life is a risk.
This is what I will be testing on my 5,000 mile trip that I will embark upon on June 20th.
This has already been done. It will be carried out at least two more times within the next month, both in James' 996 as well as in my Lab on my M96 Engine Dyno. We will be documenting both these occurrences with video to help prove the technology to those who disbelieve or want to see proof. This means total and complete loss of two complete M96 engines that are in perfectly good running condition, one of which we assembled to test some other new technology. To us engines are disposable means of development, no matter what they cost.
Thats fine, just respect the knowledge that created this development and those of us who are putting every minute we are awake into its development.
My reputation is on the line. I entered into the Porsche and VW Engine Industry at age 13 and have built this company, these buildings and my reputation from scratch with my own hands. I attained a reputation for excellence and must retain this, so I am taking this development and testing more seriously than anything in my life right now..
I spoke to the victim of an IMSBF yesterday who killed his engine by cranking it up to move it into a parking space. Ten feet of advanced warning can make all the difference in the world to an engine being repairable or not.
My electronics consultant and designer of the electronics portion of the system is a Medical Device Engineer, it took both of us to make this effective and simple.
I am the only person in the world to have driven to my Office this morning while being protected by the IMS Guardian. I believe in it.
Perhaps similar to a cell phone that gets dropped in water. The water sensor trips, and once it does - there's no fooling anyone about whether it was or wasn't when the carrier gets their hands on it for warranty replacement.
Just to be clear, if you don't purchase an optional "support package", then we will not be able to call you for advice when this device goes off?
If so, any ideas on how much this support package will be? So basically we are paying you so that we can disturb your beauty sleep, right?
Correct, at least not the hotline... The IMS Guardian Support Forums will be free for all purchasers of the unit.
Probably 24.95 additional.
Yep... You are paying for a life line.
How about a "not going to get laid tonight detector"? She's giving it up light is green, she might give it up yellow, LOL. Now that would really save me some money
Just a couple of days before we start taking pre-orders for the first 500 units. We already have 100 of these units spoken for and expect the remaining 400 to sell very quickly.
We will open the pre-orders up to Rennlist members first and will not post or link this anywhere else, at the special Rennlist price. No money will be required to pre-order a unit, simply log in, make your purchase and we will complete the orders when we receive the units and will charge your card at that time. I will have our site set up to allow us to manually process the credit cards for the orders so no one will be charged anything (not even a deposit) till the units are ready to ship.
We do not plan any other promotions like this, get in on the ground floor for the best price ever and availability. I will post the link on the 16th.
Maybe I am missing the point here and I do realize that what Flat6 is doing is great work but as a newbie and not a do it yourselfer, I do have a question.
As I understand it, there is the dreaded IMS issue with 911's from the late 90's to the mid-2000's (I own an '02 C4 Cab). If you get hit with the dreaded IMS problem, you are looking at a repair cost anywhere between $8k - $20k, depending if they can do a rebuild or if you need a new engine.
The solution to date was either to do nothing and pray that it doesn't happen to you or to do a retrofit through LN Enginneering that installed goes for around $1,600. The retrofit ensures that you never have to worry about the problem again. Flat 6 has come up with an innovative product that may sell for around $400 that will alert you if your IMS is about to fail, giving you time to get it repaired before it destroys the engine. The Flat 6 innovation does not prevent the IMS from failing but rather alerts you if it is going to thus saving you the cost of replacing the engine however you would still need to shell out about $1,600 for the LN Enginnering retrofit at that time.
So the choices are:
(1) Do nothing and simply pray the IMS gods like you
(2) Do the retrofit and spend the $1,600 now and never worry about it again
(3) Do the Flat 6 Alert system and spend $400 and pray the IMS gods like you because if the Flat 6 systems alerts you to a pending failure, you'll need to spend $1,600 for the retrofit, meaning that you would now have spent $2,000 for the fix.
So my question is this: Is the Flat 6 innovation simply a way to potentially save $1,200 or worst case, end up spending an extra $400?
Like I said, I am not trying to be difficult but simply rather trying to understand. Thanks.
did you read the post from 6/10. they'll offer acredit towards a fix if your IMS fails and is detected:
"In this situation a credit (TBD) will be offered to the owner of the device toward engine repairs or replacements performed or purchased through Flat 6 Innovations to remedy the situation. These will be covered directly and thoroughly with no fine print in the coming days."
That's great but then that leads me to a follow up thought:
If their product alerts you to a pending failure and they offer a credit (assuming its close to the cost of their product) if the IMS failes so that you can do the IMS retrofit, then the expected failure rate of the IMS must be extremely low otherwise how could they make any money at all.
So it might seem then that the expectation for IMS failure is extremely low in the first place but for those that can't sleep at night, here's a $400~ solution to ease their minds somewhat. Maybe I am being foolish but if I can afford to buy a 911 and I am willing to shell out $400~ for an alert system, why not just shell out another $1,100~ for the retrofit and just call it a day and then sleep like a baby? Like I said, I love what Flat 6 is trying to do and I am not being a naysayer, i am just trying to gain perspective, that's all as I need to make the same decision myself
I don't believe you have read the entire thread, its long, somewhat boring, but very informative.
Correction: The IMS Bearing issues have impacted EVERY Porsche M96 and M97 engine in some way. Thats every Boxtster, 996/997 and Cayman built through 2008. Though the issues are worse with some years and models, they globally effect the entire range of vehicles.
Thats a very low-ball price for the bearing retrofit.
Correct, but LN and myself have stated that the bearing retrofit should be considered a 40,000 mile fix for the problem. The new technology thats the topic of this thread is also effective with an engine that has been retrofitted to the LN/ Flat 6 IMS Bearing. This is because the technology can detect other impending engine issues and can help with early detection of about 10 of the other modes of failure for the M96. The device is called "IMS Guardian" because thats the primary application for it, but it has the ability to detect even more issues.
Correct. The device still requires user input to keep the engine from failing. Those who use poor judgment when an IMS Alert occurs will not receive any benefit from the unit.
.
Yes, but if the driver had not been warned and since the IMS has no symptoms before failing those drivers would be looking at a full engine replacement if the Alert had not occurred. Note that a Flat 6 Credit will be issued to any driver who purchases the IMS Guardian from Flat 6 and receives an IMS Alert, resulting in an engine being saved via retrofit.
In simple terms this means those who receive an IMS Alert, use wise judgment and don't re-fire the engine will get a big discount on a retrofit procedure from Flat 6 to save their engine.
So the choices are:
Prior to 2008 when LN and I perfected the bearing and extraction procedure this is the only choice you had.
Again, the 1600.00 figure is a bit too cheap for the procedure for parts and labor. I'd honestly be apprehensive to allow anyone charging so little to complete the procedure on my vehicle.
This technology is more for the person who is absolutely against ELECTIVELY spending 1600+ dollars for the retrofit procedure and wants to be protected. Also, as the value of the cars continue to degrade the 400.00 fix is more appealing to those who have vehicles that aren't worth of a 1600.00 ELECTIVE PROCEDURE.
Remember, if the IMS Guardian is employed, the driver is alerted and an engine is saved via retrofit the procedure is then discounted through Flat 6.
No, its a way to save 15,000+ dollars on a new engine because it allows the driver to know an IMS (or other) significant engine issue exists that requires intervention. This allows a retrofit or other procedure to be carried out BEFORE the engine becomes a total loss.
You will still need to spend money to rectify the issue, but you will receive discounts by purchasing the IMS Guardian.
All three cars that we have here right now with IMS Bearing Failures are terminally effected because their driver's "Drove them to death". The IMS Alert provided by the IMS Guardian would have saved ALL of these vehicles.
The "Sense Of Security" provided by the IMS Guardian can't be achieved in any other way for such little cost. That feeling is what every worried Porsche Driver that calls us is looking for and we simply can't give to them in any other way.
You bring up valid points, but the big picture you need to see is the IMS Failure that is not identified leads to a 15,000+ dollar expenditure. We deal with at least a dozen folks a week that have experienced an IMS BF and their stories are all the same concerning the way the engine failed.
Don't read things into the story that are not there.. We know that we'll end up dealing with experiences where the IMS Alert saves engines and will have to issue credits. My company specializes in Engine Development, we are not afraid to shell out a few dollars to issue guarantees for technology that we know will work.
On top of that, the data we'll collect from those who buy systems will finally provide the needed sampling to determine what the actual failure rate is of the stock IMS Bearing...
Jake - that was an AWESOME and VERY INFORMATIVE response and I can't thank you enough for it. Your response sums up 20+ pages of comments on this topic in one concise place and it is much appreciated.
As for the cost of the IMS retrofit, I had received estimates from two seperate indy's that specialize in only Porsche's in CT, one of which is on the approved vendor list for LN enginnering and they were both in that ballpark but admittedly, as estimate is one thing, the final cost is another.
Thanks again for such a great response.
We are finding that the economy has hurt some areas to the point where Indy shops are fighting tooth and nail for the work.. Because of this we are seeing prices that are too low and that leads to issues where corners are cut during procedures to speed them up. This is not good for anyone, including the purchaser.
Having completed the first retrofit myself and knowing what needs to be carried out during the procedure I can state that I'd LOSE money ( a lot of money) if I did an IMSR for 1600.00. Without ensuring the engine is healthy enough for the procedure these shops are risking their reputations and the reputation of the IMSR by doing the work too cheaply.
I sent a car home 3,000 miles last week because it failed my pre-evaluation that we carry out prior to an IMS Retrofit. The car was low power and failed a leak down and compression test horribly. The engine was not worth spending the IMSR money on with only 76K miles on the odometer. When the IMSR is carried out and ANY future issues exist with the car near term the finger will be pointed at the IMSR, but that doesn't have a chance to occur under this roof.
The IMS Guardian allows a DIY owner to install a monitoring system in their car in less than an hour (install time varies based on year, model and DIY capabilities of the installer) to receive an IMS Alert. This means 400.00 buys the system and you don't incur the inconvenience of dropping the car off at a shop, or have to even deal with the shop unless you choose to have them install it.
1600.00 outfits FOUR cars with the IMS Guardian by Flat 6 Innovations.
Hi Jake,
Can you please explain what are my options if I get the alert on my 996? I have the 2006 reman engine in a 2003 996. You mentioned there is no retrofit for my 997-style IMS.
You also mentioned pre-orders. Please post the link or explain the process.
Thanks,
Eric
Correct. With these vehicles you will be alerted that you have an impending issue. At this point the owner could halt operation of the car and consider their options before the engine scatters.
,
James is taking charge of this, but unfortunately he has a medical emergency in his immediate family that popped up last night and he has more pressing things to do than the IMSG right now.
Expect the pre-sales to be halted for a while while James gets through this medical emergency.
We know better than anyone that success can't be rushed, but failure can. I have been working on this for 3 years and as bad as I want to finish it up, I won't compromise completion for sales. In case you haven't figured it out yet, what motivates me are the challenges the engines impose, not the money that my developments generate.
"Our" best hopes for whatever James is dealing with.
Certainly the world can wait, and "we" certainly all appreciate the perfection you strive for.
Sincerely.
"Correct, but LN and myself have stated that the bearing retrofit should be considered a 40,000 mile fix for the problem."
This is the first I'm hearing about this and I find it quite disturbing. If you average the lifespan of the OEM IMS's, I would suspect that it is higher than 40,000 miles. So you're saying that the LN IMS retrofit is the same or worse than an OEM IMS? Seems a little late in the game to be making this announcement.
This is a good read for you in case you haven't yet, it's been there for a long time now.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
"...also providing increased bearing area and dynamic load capacity of almost 5,000 lbs. with our triple bearing - compared to 2200 lbs. for the single, 3060 lbs. for the dual row, and 3650 lbs for the MY06 and later single row..."
"Does installing an IMS retrofit or doing an IMS Upgrade make my engine immune to an IMS failure?
It's hard to answer that question. Porsche revised the design three times across the MY97 to MY08 M96 engine and eventually decided to eliminate the IMS completely from the new MY09 engines. It may be advisable to consider the IMS a service item, like a timing belt in many modern cars. Seeing that we started to see more MY05 engines with IMS failures in late 2009 as well as failures in MY06 (with revised 3rd gen bearing) in late 2010, that may suggest that bearing replacement (or inspection at bare minimum) should be considered every four years or 50,000 miles to 5 years or 60,000 miles, similar to many manufacturers' powertrain warranties.
That said, we've put the best bearings we can in our IMS Retrofit Kits and Upgrades to give your M96 the best fighting chance for a long service life. Currently we have three years of service of our IMS Retrofit and IMS Upgrades with zero failures and several thousand in service. "
Edit: I can see why you insist on doing a lot of the IMSR yourself Jake. I can only imagine how many shops out there have techs who haven't read the above, or have read it, but fail to mention it to their customers - or just trying to cut corners in general.
Hey Guys,
I just sent Jake a post to review prior to posting. This post will have specific pre-order information. Should be up before 12:00
Thanks,
James
It is important to always remember this simple fact: In automotive repair, repair parts and maintenance there are no guarantees past a certain point. Or, to quote a certain 1980s movie, "It's an imperfect world. Screws fall out."
James and I are finishing the details of the pre-sales now and we are outfitting the online store for the pre-sales.
With any luck we'll be on-time with the pre-sales processes later today!
Guys,
Sorry for the lack of communication over the last few days. My wife is 28 weeks into her pregnancy and started having strong contractions Monday night. The docs were able to stop the contractions (for now) and give the baby steroids to help speed the development of her lungs. We are back home and now I am back focused on the IMS Guardian Project. The internet at the hospital was spotty at best....my mind was even less clear.
Yesterday afternoon, we spent over an hour discussing the IMSG with a distribution partner in the UK. After fully detailing all aspects of the product (with NDA executed) a decision was made to move forward with a distribution agreement. This conversation, again, confirmed that the product will be well received and useful to the Porsche owner. This businessman got a full introduction to the product and is willing to make a large financial commitment to the product based on our conversation.
While we are still waiting on the "BIG Announcement" in the trade magazines to launch the product, I can tell you the following:
1. Retail Price: $389.95 (+ shipping)
Rennlist Discount Price: $365.95
2. Rennlist Pre-Order Pricing: $339.95 (+shipping)
Good only through June 30th, 2011
Must use promo code "RENNLIST" when ordering
3. No deposit will be required when you pre-order. This is simply a pre-order list to prioritize your position on the first order of product and you will be added to our database for information transfer, receiving the most up to date information and breaking news when it happens. You will not be spammed or pestered, but we will send you an initial email so you have our direct address in the event that you have questions.
4. We expect delivery of the first units in early August. We will personally inspect and test each unit prior to delivery to our customer. You should expect delivery of your product in mid August.
5. The product will have a one year warranty against manufacturing defects. If you have a problem, call us and we will exchange units with you with no hassles. Each IMSG unit is tested in house at the Flat 6 facility prior to shipment, this includes powering up the unit, verifying sensor integrity and ensuring that the switch, LED and buzzer are functioning properly.
6. Flat6Innovations will be offering a 150% Credit towards Service Work or towards the purchase of a CPO Engine if you have an Alert and engine problem. This means you have a $525 credit towards service work on your car (IMSRS etc.) or a replacement engine if your wife informs you that the radio is making a loud noise
This credit will not be valid at your local dealer of independent workshop, it is only issued if the work on your vehicle is carried out by Flat 6 Innovations at the Cleveland Georgia location, so it does not pertain to international purchasers. This is also only available for units bought directly from Flat 6 Innovations (Continental US Only).
7. Included with your order will be:
1. IMS Guardian (including all required installation accessories, wire harness, dash mounted switch interface, audible alarm and the associated engine mounted sensor)
2. DVD Installation Guide
3. Installation Instructions
4. IMS Guardian Door Decal with unique serial number for the unit installed into the car (this will enhance resale value)
5. Product Registration, including the optional "Hot Line Registration" for additional $29.95. The "Hot Line" gives you instant access to diagnose a IMSG Alert, but must be selected at the time the IMSG is purchased.
HOW TO ORDER:
We have set up two means of accepting pre-orders, by telephone and through our online store. You may choose whichever method that you prefer.
Flat 6 Innovations Online Store Ordering:
- We are setting up an item in the store for the IMS Guardian. I will post a link to this product here on Rennlist, once we have the store entry made.
- The published information on the store regarding the system will be very limited
- You can use your credit card to pre-purchase the system on the store. If you choose this method we have set this item up for manual card processing in our store, so you will not be charged until the product is released and you are happy with the technology.
- We will contact each pre-purchaser before the product is launched with the sneak peek information regarding the system and at that time we will process the cards and complete the orders.
- To ensure you get the promotional Rennlist Pricing simply type in �Rennlist� into the customer notes portion of the checkout page of the Flat 6 Online Store. If this is not stated the unit will be pre-sold at the full retail price and you can�t reverse this later.
OR
Call Flat6Innovations: [phone removed]
1. You will need to tell the gentleman answering the phone you would like to Pre-Order the IMS Guardian and would like to use the RENNLIST Promo. You will be talking to Dean Jones, the Raby Enterprises Director of Operations. Dean is not a technician, he keeps things moving smoothly here at our facility, so he will have little technical information to share with you. Jake will be available directly to answer questions for a very limited time over the next few days, but if he is available he can answer more of your questions, but please make them quick and direct.
2. You will need to give him your name, address, phone number, email address, payment instruction. We will accept your card number but this will not be processed until we release the product and you have authorized the card to be charged via email or telephone..
3. You will then be given a "Priority Number" that will match the Serial Number on the IMS Guardian Unit you will receive in the next couple of months. These first units will be first come, first serve and it appears they will go quick.
4. An email will be sent out after the product launch promotion. This email will confirm your order which will be placed and shipped to you after you authorize the card charges.
Even with the L/N Engineering Retrofit, this product is still effective for other modes of engine failure. We talked with Charles about this and are expecting a product endorsement from him very soon.
Shop owners that would like to stock these units, please call our facility to discuss bulk pricing and wholesale purchasing.
Thanks,
James
Just a comment here but I don't think driving 5k miles in 5 days will simulate real world conditions that include starting and stopping, varying speeds, turning the engine on and off at various operating temperatures, etc. If you drive 16 hours per day you'll have to average 62.5 mph. This is hardly a realistic test of this new technology.
To understand the significance if the 5k mile test one must know the elements of the system that were changed. The biggest mistake that we could make is trying to please everyone.
We strews receiving pre order calls 3 minutes after James' last post... Please hold off until we post the links, we are literally finishing the order forms and spreadsheets as we speak.
The phones are blowing up and orders are coming in through the store like crazy... We haven't even finished the organization of the pre-sales just yet.
We will be ready for orders in the next hour or so...
This pre-sales period is for those who are willing to read what we have posted here and share in the technology.. Those that want pictures of the system and infinite details before pre-buying will have to wait until the product is launched completely. We still have not received all of the required paperwork back for the protection of the system, so we cannot post any more information than we have already.
PEOPLE THAT HAVE PURCHASED ALREADY ARE NOT REFERENCING RENNLIST IN THE CUSTOMER NOTES! THIS MUST BE DONE TO ATTAIN THE RENNLIST PRICING!!!!! Pre-Sales are open to everyone as of today but ONLY RENNLIST MEMBERS are receiving special pricing!!!
ALL ORDERS WILL PROCESS IN THE STORE AT THE FULL PRICE. When we process the orders manually at THE TIME OF SHIPMENT we will run the card at the special promo Rennlist price. Don't expect the store to show the reduced cost, the store has been set up for manual processing for this item, for these pre-sales.
The PROMO CODE "RENNLIST" should be put into the customer notes field of the shopping cart.
Here are some screen captures of what your cart will look like when ordering the IMS Guardian from our online store.
Note that this screen capture includes the "Support Hotline" and thats why the unit cost is 419.00. The Rennlist promotional cost with the "Support Hotline" will be 369.90
The promotional price will not be on your invoice from the store, the discounts will be added prior to your card being MANUALLY PROCESSED at the time the orders are ready to be shipped.
Each pre-sale will be authorized for the total amount, to include shipping before any credit card is charged.
So, make your screens look just like these and you will receive the Rennlist discount.
The link is on the way!!!
Those that had ordered have you bought the support package? If it goes off, it's likely getting towed anyway, so why would anyone need to call right that second? I would hope we could call during normal business hours (but maybe not get someone right away) and talk to someone.
I included the support package. For $30, I'm covered for all potential scenarios. e.g. Saturday night, it picks up a different fault in the motor (I believe there are 12 different faults it will detect), where I can still drive it home... saves on the inconvenience.
Without the "Support Package" the driver of a vehicle that receives an IMS Alert will have to make their own decisions as to what should be done with their vehicle. Without the support hotline option, you have no lifeline to Flat 6 for assistance. NONE.
Each unit that has the "Support Package" added will have a unique serial number from the very beginning and will come with a door jamb decal that has the IMS Alert 24/7 Hotline phone number posted in case of emergency. The IMS Guardian Hotline phone number will not be posted for general reference, only in the materials accompanying the units that were sold with the support package.
When a driver of a vehicle who purchased the "Support package" calls the Hotline they will be prompted for their IMS Guardian Serial Number. This Serial Number is located on the door jamb decal along with the Hotline phone number. At this point the "On Duty Failure Specialist" will answer the phone and ask the driver a series of questions and then make a recommendation as to what the driver should do in the immediate future for the vehicle.
Yet again, without the "Support Package" the driver has no lifeline and will have to make decisions on their own, even if they call our office during business hours. The Support Package is the key to buying Flat 6 Assistance through the IMS Guardian.
Alerts won't be happening at opportune times... I keep a Hotline phone in my pocket for our Engine Purchasers and have had to answer that line has rang at 0300 on CHristmas Morning before and I have answered it, this is the same hotline number. Typically it takes an 18-22K dollar engine purchase to gain this level of support :-)
I already placed the order and got a receipt confirmation. I can't go back in the site and just add the support package only.
Jake, please advise. Should I just call this in to modify my order?
Thanks.
The link below takes you directly to the Flat6Innovations Online Store and to the IMS Guardian Order Page. I commend all of you who have already tracked down the product in the Flat6 Store. I like people who take the initiative
http://www.flat6innovations.com/shop...roductid=16285
1. Please check the box listed if you want the $29.95 Hotline Support Package. This gives you the 24 Hour Hotline to help diagnose any alerts you have.
2. In the "Customer Notes" please put RENNLIST to get your discounted price on the product.
WE ARE OVERWHELMED WITH THE RESPONSE IN THE FIRST FEW HOURS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TRUST YOU PLACE IN FLAT 6 INNOVATIONS. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.
OFFICE HOURS CLOSE AT 5:30 pm (EST).
Ok, now you can place your orders.. I'll stay late today and will be here until 6:00 PM EST to take orders..
After that you'll have to order online at the link James posted above, until we open the phones back up at 0830 tomorrow morning!
Jake,
Response has been incredible. Order #078 was just processed and announced on the RennList board.
I want OVERTIME and BONUS if I stay late tonight.....support the working man
James
The phones are going non stop on both lines... More phone orders than online at the present.
Glad to see this day finally come, it means 3+ years of development are coming to a successful end!
Ok fellas,
I am headed home now..I turned the phones off. I showed up for duty at 0745 yesterday morning, crashed at 0515 this morning and never left the shop... Back up again at 0750 and now I am whipped!
I did not want any orders left via voicemail, so I turned off the answering system... Please call us at 0830 tomorrow morning and we can take your pre-order, or you can use the website :-)
Jake, i'm in Honolulu, HI and notice that your warranty with 150% value
says it's for the continental US only. Any chance of revising that to cover
all of the U.S.- so folks in Hawaii and Alaska will be covered also just in
case we elect to ship engine to you for rebuild or repair?
Barry
Not the first generation system.. Literally the only difference is the dash interface.. We are now working on the switches and dash interface for the 987 and 997 dash.
Thanks to all of you who have pre-purchased... The first three hours of sales were insane.. We can see that we need to go ahead and get the factory working on a second batch of units, which was the reason why we wanted to carry out these pre-sales..
So many times people don't follow through, but not in this case! AMAZING!
This is one of those, hope it never goes off but glad it's there units. A must have if you ask me.
Imagine if you hear the buzzer rocketing down the highway at 100mph. Exhilaration and the overwhelming need to vomit all in one neat package. But at least your engine is safe.
We have begun to get orders outside the US and need to disclaim that due to our distribution partnership (pending), orders originating from the UK will have to be handled by our distribution partner. Email:
[email removed]
for details on how to contact our UK partner.
Thanks,
James
I think this speaks volumes to the reputation of Jake Raby and Flat 6 Innovations, and the desperation of 996 owners for some peace of mind
Even without the 150% credit, I'm sure you'll take good care of us Canadians when we need your help.
About to place my order online... one final question (after reading and re-reading entire thread) - What is the likelihood that an engine with a properly and fully functioning IMS Guardian still have a catastrophic failure without an IMSG alert?
Curious because I just purchased an '02 C2 Cab that had the engine replaced 2 yrs / 5k miles ago. Total 32k on odometer now. Runs great right now but thinking of the added "insurance" of the IMS Guardian...
Misc question...
Porsche Dealer Service Invoice in 2009:
HAD CODES P0344 AND P0346 PHASE SENSOR BANKS 1 AND 2. P0021 CAMSHAFT POSITION WITH RESPECT TO CRANKSHAFT BANK 2. P0355 RPM INPUT CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT. P0300, P0305, P0301, P0306 MISFIRE CODES. CHAINSHAFT BEARING HAS SEIZED CAUSING CAMSHAFTS TO JUMP TIMING ON BOTH BANKS. OIL HAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF METAL IN IT.
REPLACED ENGINE WITH REMANUFACTURED UNIT. TRANSFERRED OVER A/C COMPRESSOR, EXHAUST, COOLANT HOSES, CLUTCH AND FLYWHEEL. ALIGNED VEHICLE. TEST DROVE VEHICLE.
QTY FP Number Description
1 996-100-995-DX 3.6L 05 996 CARR
-1 996-100-995-DX CORE RETURN
Does the "05" mean it was an 2005 engine?
If the reman motor is a MY05... No IMS fix for you! Unless you decide to pay for an engine R&R plus tear down ($$$). If your car's date of manf is less than 10 years ago, you could buy a 3rd party warranty for 4-12x times the price of the IMSG. What do you think the IMSG will do for you?
Currently, the distribution only affects those customers in the UK. If you are in Sweden you would still order from Flat6 directly.
For those in the UK that ordered the product prior to the distribution announcement: We will honor the Rennlist Pricing of $335.95. We will forward your pre-sale invoice to the distributor.
If you are in the UK and wish to place a pre-sale order, you can still use the Flat6Innovation site to submit the order.
Thanks,
James
PS: Thanks AGAIN to the Rennlist Forum and its participants. We are completely overwhelmed by the support and intend to overwhelm you all with the product.
# 96 (it was meant to be) is now taken. Well done James and Jake on the buzz you've surrounded this product launch with.
Looking forward to satisfy my curiosity and celebrate the genius design. However simple it is.
Numbers would be impossible to calculate.. Because the system relies heavily on driver input when an IMS Alert is received.
There will be people who receive an IMS Alert and continue to drive or make dumb decisions because they don't want to stop, be inconvenienced and call a tow truck. This is the reason why the IMS Alert Hotline is such a good option, because it gives a lifeline that the driver can use to attain an expert recommendation.
There are people today who do receive some sort of warning from their IMS in the way of a noise or oil loss and guess what, they continue to drive one second too long and destroy their engine.. There is no fix for stupid!
This situation is what pushed me to develop the IMS Guardian. The DVD will cover more than just install, it covers what to do in the case of an IMS Alert and we also have devised a checklist that can be kept with the Owner's manual in case a driver receives an IMS Alert. The system will only be as effective as it's operator, because the system doesn't shut down the engine, only alerts the driver that some problem is imminent and the situation needs to be explored before continuing to
safely
operate the vehicle.
My reputation precedes me :-)
As long as someone was willing to assume the costs of shipping their car to our Cleveland Ga facility I'd have no problem carrying out the work and issuing the credit. We have cars shipped from canada regularly as well as every state in the US just for IMSR procedures.
Order #98 for me. I want the works and the Rennlist discount! So let me know if I screwed anything up in the order process.
I know you spent a lot on research Jake but it seems you've got a nice little chunk of change coming your way this Summer. Good job on developing and releasing this product!
Sorry Jake - I may not have been clear in my question. Have you in your testing run into any instances where the IMSG did NOT provide an alert and the engine failed due to an IMS issue?
I understand that nothing is 100% foolproof but I'm just trying to figure if this is installed, how much peace of mind one would get.
Also, *if* the engine does fail without an IMSG alert, is there the same 150% credit? (All the posts I've read specifically state the credit is good if the IMSG sends an alert.)
Thanks!
Okay, so if I was number 2, who was number 1? They should get a plaque or something...
Nicely done Jake and congrats on a very successful product launch!
No, but we also have not forced an engine to fail while being monitored YET. This is my next and final test for the technology and it will be done in my Dyno Lab under full documentation.
I can tell you that the piece of mind will be priceless. When I get into my 996 with the unit installed and perform a press to test and drive down the road I feel better about the car than I ever have.. Keep in mind that the engine does have the IMSR performed and I still value the Sense Of Security that my system brings to the driver's seat. The people who have seen it have been astonished, the term "brilliant" is the common response.
If this occurs we WILL apply the 150% credit to any Flat 6 Engine Solution.
The terms are simple, as long as the mode of failure that the engine experiences is
determined to be one of the advertised modes of failure that is detected by the IMS Guardia
n we will issue the credit with no questions asked.
If the mode of failure is determined to be something outside the realm of detection by the IMSG, we will not issue the credit. I am easy to work with and would probably treat someone "right" if this did occur, no matter what- as long as they remained respectful and sensible in regard to their expectations.
For any credit to be issued the car or engine must be shipped to our location. We will not issue refunds, parts or etc otherwise. To receive the Flat 6 credit, flat 6 must carry out the entire job.
Hope that makes sense and is direct enough to understand without confusion.. I hate fine print, nothing we do has fine print...
Thanks!
What a great couple of days with pre-sales for the IMS Guardian!! We continue to accept more phone calls than online, but since we don't work weekends here you guys that order over the weekend will have to use the store site..
After an 80 hour week my *** is dragging and I am headed home... Anyone who wants to order by phone, ring us on Monday...
Thanks again for your support.
This is just presales and for internet nerds like us. Wait til it get's published in the magazines and the traditional folks catch on...
I'm just glad I got my order in.
No doubt...Just wait until Autozone or O'Reilly calls up wanting 5000 units to start stocking...I'm just kidding but there could be an explosion of demand even if it is every Porsche dealership in North America like the Suncoast, Braman and Sonnen type dealers.
Excellent work Jake!
Hello Jake
In ref that Norton warning while going to the site, went ahead entered the site and no problems noticed while running a scan upon leaving, so it is all okay.
While the 996 Turbo does not have an IMS to monitor, the product does monitor 10 other modes of failure some of which the 996 Turbo could experience. Probably overkill protection but for the money it's a pretty good investment.
The winners will be notified when the technology is unveiled.. That should be just after our July 4th shutdown. We will be closed the week of the 4th-8th and when we return it should be time to spill the beans.
Thanks so much for your support.
This innovator needed to hear that after the hellacious Monday that has been transpiring all day!
BUT the IMS Guardian is still kicking ***, no issues to mention with it and we are awaiting final samples now from the factory! They should be here tomorrow.
Amen to that!
I can personally attest to the peace of mind provided by the installation of a "devoid of mode of failure" IMS bearing in a Box! The freezing of it made it a bigger breeze to install and relieved much of the anxiety involved in tackling a "foreign to me" project.
The engine purrs and I sleep with ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz's.
Regards, Maurice!
I could not agree more..
BUT with the diminishing values of this series of cars and the fact that an IMSR is not a DIY for most folks, generally costing well over 2K or more, the IMS Guardian is a lower cost means of attaining a similar sense of security.
I have to admit that even though one test car that has the IMSG has a retrofitted IMS Bearing, I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling when I start that car up, perform a press to test and take off on my morning commute. Being able to look at the dash and see the amber light illuminated with no sign of red is security defined.
Some of that warm and fuzzy feeling comes from knowing the application of the technology was my idea and a damn good and effective one. Seeing this go to market means more to me than any dollar it will generate.
I like it!
As someone pointed out earlier, the light may interfere with night driving. You may want to minimize the "white borders" as much as possible to show the unit name but minimize light noise.
I think I would have prefered simple text on the button to match the factory font and blend with the interior. The gimmicky logo is cool, but not on my dashboard. Just my 2 cents.
Couldn't agree more. If it's supposed to integrate seamlessly into the dash and you went to all the trouble to put a standard switch, why not make the graphics look OEM as well? Reminds me of, well whatever, just my opinion. Not a fan of the logo though on my dashboard.
LOL, Now just let me see that in my Car and ill be WARM FUZZY.
I love it, OEM gave me the wooden leg in the first place.
I'm gunna print that out and stick it to the dash for the weekend.
I feel fuzzy just thinking about it.
100% agree - don't like the artwork at all. I'll find some spray paint that has a matte finish, cover the light with a tiny piece of tape and it should look fine.
If it's just a sticker, then hopefully we have the option to get it without the logo.
Thats fine, we'll leave the decals off the switches and put them in the kit for self-installation if someone wants them. That makes things even easier for us.
In some applications cars may have other switches that could be confusing for drivers to differentiate from the IMSG, hence the decal.
You can have it however you want it. I always consider function over anything else.
Back to it......
I feel like you all just rared back and kicked me right between the legs......more importantly you all are substantiating my EX-WIFE'S statement when I told her I didn't have any particular taste or "style": "James, you do have taste....its called BAD taste!" Don't miss her one bit.
THANKS A LOT
Seriously, I was really proud of not only the logo, but the fact we could get it that small to fit on the switch. I will give Jake credit; he told me not to spend a lot of time on that part of the project, as Porsche owners were more into function than bling. Again, Jake is proven correct.
So here is our solution: The IMS Guardian will come with two stickers....My "IMS GUARDIAN" bling Logo and a more traditional "IMS" sticker. You can put either or none on your switch once installed.
James
Je voudrais m'exprimer d'une autre facon, but...out of respect I will simply say:
Give me a VERY LARGE BRAKE, Please!
On second thought, give me an EXCEEDINGLY LARGE BRAKE, PLEASE!
Regards, Maurice.
#130 Peace of mind until I do the IMSBR myself, and then make sure everything is good for a while. Once I feel confident all is well, I can always remove it and resell it, so the long term cost can be minimal. Really, any high quality desireable mod is like that. If you can afford the initial coast, you can usually recover at least 50% or more down the road if you decide to delete it later.
So can you specify matte cover for those of us with matte buttons? I have "White over Clear" extra strength adhesive P-touch ribbon, so I can use that if the IMS decal is an issue on matte. Better than one shiny button amongst the matte ones.
I've done it the opposite way round by spraying a matte finish Targa blind swith with gloss lacquer (to use as a garage door opener button). I don't see why you couldn't just spray it with a few light coats of matte lacquer.
The switches come either way from Porsche. Shouldn't be a big deal for them to supply it either way, considering the small runs, & hand packed design. They're not THAT expensive.
Hey Everyone,
First, all of us at Flat 6 Innovations want to wish everyone a Happy Independence Day. Lets all remember what the day truly celebrates and appreciate the fact we live in best country since man walked this earth.
Just wanted to let you all know that Flat 6 Innovations will be closed from July 2 - July 11 for the summer break. We have been busting tail to get this product out to market ASAP and need a break.
We want to thank each of that has taken the time to pre-order the IMS Guardian from Flat 6 Innovations. The trust each of you has put into our company by pre-ordering a product that is yet to be fully revealed to you, gives us great pride in our reputation.
A few updates on the product:
1. We have tested the IMS Guardian against extreme conditions including exposure to 515 degrees Fahrenheit. The unit worked as planned with no deficiencies.
2. We just purchased a slightly wrecked 2003 Boxster S with a perfectly good running engine. We will be sacrificing the engine to failure on our chassis dyno in the coming weeks. To induce failure we will be removing the current IMS Bearing and replacing it with one pulled from an engine that had early symptoms of imminent IMS failure (Stage 1). This test will be the final test for the IMS Guardian. The expected result will be an IMS Alert prior to failure. We will then run the engine until it completely fails giving us an estimate of the time you might expect to have from Alert to Failure. This test is applicable to all Boxster and 996 vehicles (1998-2008). If anyone needs Boxster parts we will be parting out the rest of the car when the test is over.
3. We did reveal the complete technology and blue prints to a pair of technical writers and the editor at large for a Porsche trade magazine. We're not going to name drop on this board, but most of you know who they are. Here are the direct quotes from them:
a. “The technology is really cool but the way you are applying the technology is brilliant, a relatively simple and effective solution for a complex situation."
b. “I must say that I am impressed, we are impressed, I grew up in shops, around motorsports to boot, and thought I have seen it all, this is brilliant, job well done.”
c. Editor at large: “First thought was: pure genius.”
Validation from respected peers in this industry proved to be one of the most rewarding days at this facility.
Take care and we will be in touch when we return back to the facility.
James and Jake
2. We just purchased a slightly wrecked 2003 Boxster S with a perfectly good running engine. We will be sacrificing the engine to failure on our chassis dyno in the coming weeks. To induce failure we will be removing the current IMS Bearing and replacing it with one pulled from an engine that had early symptoms of imminent IMS failure (Stage 1). This test will be the final test for the IMS Guardian. The expected result will be an IMS Alert prior to failure. We will then run the engine until it completely fails giving us an estimate of the time you might expect to have from Alert to Failure. This test is applicable to all Boxster and 996 vehicles (1998-2008).
WOW, how very scientific of you...
Shouldn't this test already have been carried out before you started selling the product?
I'm all for it if it works, but seems a little late to be testing the product when the first run is already sold.
I kind of agree here....
Nothing has been "sold" as of yet. Anyone who has pre-ordered has the option of cancelling their order when the technology is released, if for some reason they would like to. We have yet to charge anyone, or any distributor a single dollar for these systems. Pre-orders have been a way for us to communicate with those seriously interested in the technology, first and foremost. These "pre-order" individuals will have the technology released to them first.
The product testing is complete, however the one final thing remains and thats sacrificing an engine purposely, while protected. This is simply required as it is "real" and not done with any variables, like any other sort of testing we have done in my lab. As the developer of this system I must pilot a vehicle, see and hear the IMS Alert and then push the engine to final failure. This must occur successfully before I take a single dollar from anyone for this product.
This metod of testing may not be scientific, but engine failure isn't very "correct" when it occurs. This is a crude way to top off all that we have been doing for the past several months in regard to final testing of the product. Here engines are simply disposable in our quest to continue the evolution of the breed, if you guys had an idea how many of our own engines we have broken in our quest to gain knowledge, you'd have a heart attack. There are times when the only way to get the job done is the old fashioned way.
All that said, we are all officially on vacation until July 11th, the entire facility is closed for the next week. We need time away from the shop and this development. We will come back refreshed and ready to finish this development.
Thanks to the believers. I am very excited to say the least, especially after the comments we received this week. See y'all on the 11th! I am outta here!
The story will be covered in Excellence, we just don't know when. More than likely it will be the issue that is released in October 2011. The issue that is posted will not have the story included.
When I know for sure I will let you guys know.
Joaquin:
I'm always very excited at the prospect of a newly-hatched issue of Excellence Magazine, as it always contains a veritable wealth of information. The subject issue (around OCT 2011) will be especially exciting with this kind of bear ring content and all of these technological exploits to be finally revealed. I have used the contents inthe correct context professionally in my own endeavors to a great benefit.
The only damper on the whole situation
(IMNSHO) is that the word "
unveiling"
as used in Mr. Raby's quote traditionally has a connotation of death in one of the major religions (which shall go nameless for obvious reasons). Suffice it to say that following one year, all of these testings and actual real-world conditions of purposefully blowing up an engine with this one scientifically-targeted- mode- of- failure as its intended target/victim should be simply amazing, albeit tinged with sadness at the passing of one of Dr. Porsche's M96 powerplants.
(
I had to take that other aforementioned exceedingly large brake
), now.
Anyway, Like the man says: Drive it like they are meant to be driven, and don't be concerned about a few engines blowing up in the vicinity of the Flat6 Innovations testing grounds! You couldn't be near a more
experienced
and
committed
kind of guys.
This shall undoubtedly enhance the
reputation
of all of those involved or in the market for Porsches, whether they are 911's , Cayman's or Boxsters, and in ANY state or in AllState s, without or without any service contracts in the aftermarkets!!!! So, keep up the good werx and keep the
tomes
coming!
Excelsior!!!!
Up! Up! Awaaaaaaayyyy!!!
Most Excellent,
Regards, Maurice.
I've read through the whole thread and so far am awaiting the full product announcement.
While I appreciate the concern about shops cutting corners with IMSR installs, I would be more attracted to this product if the credit after an alert could apply to parts purchased from FSI instead of only the full package requiring the car be shipped to FSI. If the issue here verification? Or is it designed to lock the customer into FSI as their IMSR shop?
Assuming I've identified a shop that I trust, with other related work (i.e. lightweight flywheel & performance pressure plate) to be done along with the IMSR procedure, I'm more inclined to just do the IMSR sooner rather than later versus installing this device and waiting for the alert. I do realize there are other failure modes the device can supposedly detect but without more information that is a different value proposition than detecting the IMS failure.
How about taking 500.00 to the casino and see if it can be tuned into enough cash to replace an engine.
I would rather buy Jake's IMS Guardian, it's an insurance policy that I am eagerly waiting for...
If the system fails to detect a failure I want to personally inspect the engine. This has nothing to do with securing additional business for our engine shop, as we can't keep up with what work we have as is.
As the developer of the technology I feel it is very important to see any failures of my system to work as I have designed it.
We are now back from summer shutdown and will be posting updates to our pre-purchasers this week.
Thanks for the continued support, and patience.
Hi Jake,
Hope you had a great break.
I have a ?: Is there a way to turn off the system after it has detected a failure? Or will it continue to buzz until we turn off the ignition?
Thanks.
This is understandable, but it doesn't answer my question. The terms stated for the credit were:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, you only get the credit if the work is done at FSI.
You say you're unable to keep up with the work you've got now, before everyone starts attempting to schedule their post-IMSG-alert services. If a consumer gets an alert and has their car immediately flat-bedded to their local trustworthy shop, why not can't they apply this credit to the parts required for the IMSR and have their local shop perform the procedure?
At the present time the "turn off" feature is the only remaining change for the system. I do not want to "switch" the system so it can be accidentally turned off while monitoring is being carried out.
I will say that the alarm is loud and obnoxious, designed to alert the driver even with the radio blaring, but the caveat to that is the fact that it is very annoying after the driver has been alerted.. Thats the way it is supposed to be, because "driving a car to death" is a very real occurrence. With these types of engine failures and we do not want the car further driven until the driver references the handbook that we include with the unit or until they the IMS support Hotline if they purchase that option.
That said, the main lead wire for the system connects to the fuse box, I plan on installing a quick disconnect in that main line that the driver can simply slide apart with no tools should they receive an IMS Alert and wish to disarm the system for whatever reason.
Again, I do not want to "switch" the system as it needs to be automatically armed every time the car is started and remain armed at all times while the ignition switch is in the "on" position.
I have one test car wired "live" 24/7 even while the engine is not running, I have done this for a specific reason, that I will share with you later.
Last week one of my employees drove one of the test cars 2,000 more miles on vacation and gathered even more data. We are planning a web based presentation with the pre-purchasers this week, so you guys that have already made your orders can be looking for some dialogue from us concerning this in the coming days.
All of the other tasks on my plate were worked off before we shut down last week, so the IMS Guardian has my 100% undivided attention until it is 100% complete in every way, to include having the first batch of units put into the hands of our pre-purchasers.
My main concern is the ability of this chosen shop to help us understand the things that lead up to the IMS Alert. We have very few shops across the country that we work with, because many lack the detail oriented specialty focus that is required. Others lack the customer service required to satisfy discerning purchasers, then we end up with indirect complaints and have to answer for the mistakes of others, which is never fun.
The main situation that I am concerned with is any vehicle that experiences an IMSBF for some reason does not receive an IMS Alert before this happens. These cars (if they ever exist) will have failed engines, and we must do a post-mortem to see why the system did not do its job, and that means the car must come to our facility.
In the situations where the system is employed and does it's job giving advanced warning of an actual IMSBF and the car can be retrofitted, then the system has done it's job and saved an engine.. Here at Flat 6 we'll be grinning from ear to ear and can then determine if a local shop is experienced enough with the retrofit procedure to carry out retrofitting a bearing that is failing. This will also depend on the degradation of the failing bearing.
Perhaps what you guys don't fully understand is the differences in the IMSR procedure when a bearing has begun to fail.. It is MUCH more difficult because the conventional pullers will not extract the bearing easily in some cases. Here we change failing bearings frequently and have the outside the box thinking and tools to effectively do the job. The worst case scenario is a shop attempting to change a failing bearing that isn't accustomed to complexities and adversities with the procedure, then having problems. In this situation, everyone is put in a bad position and that can be avoided by the car taking a trip to Flat 6 Innovations.
Extracting a bearing that is crumbling isn't easy and no instructions can be written to dictate the process. It is a true Improvise, Adapt and Overcome situation and we have a 100% success rate for removing failed bearings from engines that were otherwise salvageable.
Unfortunately the most convenient approach with these engines is generally the least effective. Thats why we have two trucks zig zagging the country picking up and delivering Porsches continually.
"Unfortunately the most convenient approach with these engines is generally the least effective. Thats why we have two trucks zig zagging the country picking up and delivering Porsches continually."
This is why it took me exactly 1.7 seconds to decide to ship my car over 2500 miles to Flat6.
Eddie,
The Cali trip is off for now as James has a baby on the way and can't make the trip with me.. His wife had a scare a few weeks back and he decided that he should not leave at all until the arrival is all good to go and healthy.
It was going to be a marketing trip rather than a test anyway, since all of our primary test work is completed. We will certainly keep working to make it better in very subtle ways right up till the day the product ships.
Yesterday the Technical Editors from Excellence called and requested a unit to review and install.. I suppose if they are impressed enough with what we have created that you'll see a story in print on the technology at some point. :-)
Thats a good idea.. The only problem is the fact that October is one of our craziest months as cars from the colder states are coming off the roads for our specialized services and engine reconstructions, electively...
It really never slows down, though.. :-)
Today we sorted through 80+ IMS Guardian surveys that were sent to us from our pre-purchasers. I chose these based on several key parameters and we now have selected the group that we will be using to help us critique the install, instructions and DVD of the system. The function tests of the system are not our primary concern, because all of that is done except killing an engine here at the lab purposely..
I have learned a lot in the retail automotive development world with critical systems.. Many times a product that works awesome, but isn't presented completely is not as effective as it can be. It is very important to us that the systems are easy to install, confusion is kept to a minimum and that we can convey the critical points clearly.
Those who were selected for beta testers have been sent a notification email, those who were not selected were not sent an email.
We now await one circuit board sample from the factory. We have a unit headed to the Excellence Magazine Technical Editor team. We are making huge progress.
Okay, supposedly, there is some discussion on installation ease buried somewhere in the previous 31 pages. Umm...how easy is it?
What's involved? I'm fairly adept mechanically but I hate electronics. On a 1-10 difficulty scale where 1 is a project for the average DIYer and 10 is one reserved for a certified technician, where does installation fall?
-Eric
We're being told very easy. Maybe 3ish range.
You open your switch panel next to the radio with a butter knife and cloth.
(courtesy renntech)
You remove a blank switch cover with a screwdriver, then pop the IMS guardian switch in.
Then hide the box that comes with the kit inside the dash near the radio or under the dash somewhere and route some wires to the button (and possibly piggy back off another button or other wires in or under the dash). I'm guessing they'll supply compression style "piggy back" splice wire clips so you don't have to do any splicing, just snap them in place, or it might even just piggy back onto the switch with spade connectors, so you wouldn't have to use many of them...
The only hard part it sounds like is you might have to run a wire to the engine bay? That can be a little tedious. You can route it inside the car or drill through the floor if you know what you are doing or go through one of various grommets in the car.
That's about all that has been revealed so far.
I'm sure their included instructional DVD will spell it out very clearly.
We haven't been told where that engine bay wire goes to if it splices in or plugs into a new component that is installed.
Edit: here is the post from Jake about installation (which apparently only requires a few basic tools)...
https://rennlist.com/forums/8623951-post238.html
After being presented with the tool list and task the Excellence Tech Editors have said they will rate this a "DIY Level 2" task.
We took a few steps backward this week in regard to the red tape associated with the development.. We have to gain a few more clarifications from our legal advisors based on these recent complications. Its the first problem we've hit in several weeks. Its keeping us from even revealing the technology to our study group, but thats OK, because we can't make any mistakes with the paperwork and etc at this point.
Trying to do this right.
Is a level 10 someone that can build rocket ships that go to the moon?.
Or some one capable of repairing a VCR?.
Id like to think I’m 6 or 7 but if its a rocket then I’m a 2 :-(
The site has no issues.. The majority of people have not had any issues with it, but it seems that sometimes Norton pops a false alarm..
There is zero info on the site anyway.. Literally if it wasn't for this thread and a couple of spin offs the IMS Guardian would be still under complete wraps until the Excellence article hits the stands..
James and I spent the day today working on some of the items related to product release. The Excellence article will be published in November and we are going to allow that article to debut the technology to the public.
We need the extra time as James' baby girl is due any day and he has been an instrumental player in getting this product out of my brain and into the hands of the buyers.
Our pre-purchasers who were selected for our beta testing group will learn the technology before anyone, probably within the next two weeks as long as the Attorneys give us clearance to do so.
This IMS failure potential has been the most discourging aspect of looking in getting into the 996 scene, it's a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation.
That said, in just the last month I've seen two 996s with high mileage on them (80K miles and 110K miles), neither of the owners even knew of the IMS issue and the cars are still on the original IMS bearing!
OMG, how is this possible???
I have never heard of a high mileage 996 on its original detonation device that has not blown up yet.
Perhaps it has to do with the clueless owners, maybe some wierd version of "ignorance is bliss".
I have 167.000Km on my 996 Carrera 2 year 2000 with Original IMS bearing on it.
I do regular service since new every 5000 Km with no excuses.
The car runs just perfect!!!
Here in Kuwait nobody know about IMS! nobody! Not official, not non-offical. Porsche official maintenance is requested every 5000KMs, thats all.
Regards
Hi spanish friend!
Show these guys the desert dust pics you posted on Soloporsche please
That's one of the reasons to go for a closer maintenance period there in Kuwait
This is consistent with what I have observed. In my experience many 996 owners buy on impulse. Most I have encountered were delighted when they discovered that the car they bought has a M96/0*AT*** reman engine. I guess they don't know these engines are typically not eligible for the LN Eng retrofit. I suggest they keep $18,000 in an envelope in their sock drawer for a "rainy day".
Hi Juankimalo!!!!!! Long time...
These pictures shows how I found my car in the parking after a heavy dust storm...Imagine how long took me to clean it!
Sorry for the bad quality, phone camera...
Curious, I read through most of the pages here. Did you guys pay for this product thinking you would have it by July/August and now it's delayed until November/December. Were your credit cards charged?
No credit cards charged until product ships.
Pre-orders can be cancelled once technology is revealed.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/630121-ims-new-detection-speculation-12.html#post8681956
Very clear statements were made concerning charges and delivery dates. We have not and will not receive one dollar from the pre-sales of this unit until its time for the units to be finalized. We have stayed in touch with the pre-purchasers and will be doing so again this week with an IMSG Newsletter.
Once the technology is unveiled anyone that wants to cancel their pre-order can do so with no questions asked on this end. If ANYONE decides they don't want to continue waiting, or wants to cancel the order- no problem at all because all we have to do is delete it since no money has changed hands.
We want the transactions to favor these pre-purchasers and we want their feedback before any other units are shipped.
Finally, after the technology is unveiled but before any cards are charged we will send out an "authorization" form to the pre-purchasers. We will only charge the cards that we have executed authorization forms to accompany. I can't think of any more thorough and fair way to handle these pre-sales.
I have a quick question and I apologize if it's been answered already in the previous 33 pages
The site allows for you to purchase additional Hotline Support for $29. What does this provide that wouldn't otherwise be covered by a call to you saying, "Hi, my IMS Alert is on, I guess I need to schedule an IMS replacement," my assumption being that once the alert goes off, the driver would need to stop the car as quickly as possible and call for a flatbed/tow.
So, assuming I know that much already, what kind of additional information does the Hotline Support provide?
Thanks,
-Eric
"We have stayed in touch with the pre-purchasers and will be doing so again this week with an IMSG Newsletter."
I have received no correspondence at all since placing my pre order (#132) a month or so ago. ???
We have sent out two different group emails. One of these had the IMSG Survey included with it. From those surveys we chose our group that will be receiving the first units.
With your order being #132 it was placed after the mass amount of pre-orders was received and after we had selected the beta testing group. Due to this the next correspondence that you receive will be the IMSG Newsletter sometime next week.
Thats partially correct, but there may be other scenarios where you could need expert guidance.
The Hotline gives you direct 24 hour link to an M96 engine specialist from my company, most of the time this person will be yours truly.
When an IMS Alert occurs there are scenarios that should be considered based on the circumstances. Things like should the car be driven or towed to a shop, should it be shut down immediately and etc. We will also be able to help drivers understand the chain of events that a local shop will take in diagnosing the severity of the condition that created the IMS alert. Buying the ability to attain this type of information is virtually priceless when you are on the side of the road with a problem.
That said, we'll have some updates for this thread next week and the newsletters will go out to the pre-purchasers as well and may even have a sneak peek at the system, but not spill the beans as to the technology yet..
The Excellence article is written. The tech writers were blown away!
Thanks for the reply. I've already placed my order but I'm wondering if it is possible to add/remove the Hotline Support to/from the order when the confirmation of purchase email goes out.
-Eric
As I have stated before:
All the pre-purchasers will confirm their orders before their cards are charged. At this time they will have the ability to cancel the order completely, add the support hotline or subtract the support hotline.
We try to go over the top with giving people what they want. No one will be charged without confirmation of the charges and the ability to upgrade or downgrade their order.
The IMS Guardian newsletter has been sent to all pre-purchasers of the system. We included updates on delivery times in this newsletter as well as other updates.
We will now be sending these every couple of weeks to the pre-purchasers as we work to fill the first orders.
We have halted further sales of the IMS Guardian units for the interim and will more than likely not be accepting any more orders until the Excellence article is published in the November issue.
Thanks again for your interest in this product development. We appreciate the willingness of Rennlist to host this thread.
Wow, I just read this entire thread. I really hope the people who have pre-orders have way more info than what's been posted. (Yes, I know they won't be charged until shipping) I find it amazing that a company shows off a light/buzzer that can prevent bearing failure, but gives absolutely no details on how it works. Instead of people being skeptical, they get in line super eager and with a "fuzzy feeling" to hand over nearly $400. I'm not saying the product doesn't work, or it's not a worthwhile investment. However, there is absolutely no way I would buy one without knowing more, regardless of the companies reputation.
Seriously, DK570, such a novel and constructive post. There is absolutely no point to your post. You know the old saying about opening your mouth and removing all doubt? Probably not. Everything to gain and nothing to lose from a proven expert on these engines, that for no reason except to solve the most fearful (by many) unknown issue in a way that would likely lose him repair business, and at a discounted price, just for signing up, and that's how you respond. If you're a Doubting Thomas and wouldn't buy it, then a simple "Not for me" would suffice, if you felt your first post had to be useless.
Than do not buy one, Jake has a good reputation and actively participates on these forums. I don't think he would risk his reputation by selling one of the largest online Porsche communities a Poor product. I know he stands behind what he sells. Thats why many people here have purchased already, and if you read the thread there are of course some skeptics.
In any case, Welcome to Rennlist.
Why? Its a pre-order, they expressed interest in the unit but to date they have been charged nothing.
As I have stated many times over.. This thread is the ONLY place you will find information concerning this system. You will not find any info on our website or otherwise, because we had planned on simply releasing the technology and going from there. Fact is someone started this thread after I mentioned in another thread here that we had devised a way to forecast IMS Bearing failures.
That should tell you just how many people take the IMS bearing failure seriously. It also speaks volumes for the reputation my company has earned in this industry.
Then what is your complaint? What was the motive for your post? You haven't pre-ordered one of the units so I am a little lost when trying to understand what your view point is. I suppose there is a possibility that you are just a "Vendor Hater".
I understand this and thats why many times throughout this thread I have stated that ANYONE who is skeptical about the technology, how it works and what comprises the system should wait until the technology is released before making an order. Of course, those who have done this will not get any special pricing like the pre-purchasers have.
Post like this one never bother me.. There is always 10% of the population that seek out things to complain about.
Wow. I can see that you are going to be a nice addition to the community.
Might I suggest you just lurk a while until you have a clue what you are talking about?
And an inaccurate rat at that... (for someone who's apparently read the entire thread, I would question that statement).
The cost for some pre-orderers was closer to $300, not $400.
"Rennlist Pre-Order Pricing: $339.95 (+shipping) Good only through June 30th, 2011"
The system does not "prevent bearing failure", it just provides advanced warning of possible failure so the educated can replace it or save their investments from total melt down. Nothing can prevent the bearing from failing. If it is going to fail, it is going to fail.
"6. The IMS Guardian will NOT save or solve the factory IMS bearing issue. The IMSRP addresses that problem."
They obviously also don't know about flat 6's reputation and generous guarantee about the item's usefulness (oh, did they miss the part about paid for repairs should the system not warn about a IMSB failure?).
"1. Flat6 will be offering a minimum of 100% (probably closer to 150%) credit towards an IMSRP if your IMS fails while being monitored by the IMS Guardian. This service would have to be performed by Flat6 Innovations."
Welcome to Rennlist.
I actually meant educated as to the use of the IMSG.
For example call from friend, wife/etc. in car. Hey what's that noise coming from that IMS switch, and why doesn't it go off when I press it?
BLAM. 1 minute later. Engine toast.
You are a pot stirrer! If you don't like the product leave it alone and don't buy it. That is best form of harm you can do to a vendor.
If you have no idea if the product works or not why would you criticize people like Jake (who are filling a documented need) or people like myself who view $350 as cheap insurance compared to $20k in an engine. Jake would not stake his rep or his company on a device that doesn't work. Unless he truly does not value what he does for a living and where his bread is buttered.
In all fairness this happens frequently. Pre-purchase and Pre-order serves many purposes to a business and sometimes it actually benefits the purchaser who is willing to partake of the offer. Could be a better price, the need to be the first to own, the sense of assurance that one will own, etc. To the business it is a very sensible way to test perceived demand, willingness to buy, and ability to pay. Some also use it to judge the volume of product to manufacture. I see nothing wrong with it. (and that is my opinion and I hope I am still allowed to post my opinions here)
I also see nothing wrong with you posting your opinion from your perspective. Plenty of folks on here "stir the pot" on a few common topics, one of which is the IMSB issue. Some specifically and chronically talk about the failures and provide photographic evidence, just in case anyone believes that the failures aren't real. Others like to quote the high miler's on the original IMSB. I would tend to believe that both extremes are true.
I also trust that folks who decided to take advantage of the pre-purchase offer have their own very real and very sound reasons for doing so. And those of us who chose not to most likely have our own very real and very sound reasons for not doing so.
I would have responded sooner but I chose instead to wash the 996 because I am still amazed by how fantastic I think a clean and shining Porsche looks.
It's pretty clear in my original post that I'm not complaining about anything, or criticizing the company. I'm just amazed that people are
eager
to spend hundreds of dollars for something when they have essentially no details about it other then it warns you before the bearing fails. If I do buy one, it will be after more details are released, so I actually know what I am getting. For those who claim there is "no point" to my post, I will direct your attention to all the posts similar to "#xx online".
DK,
You might want to re-scan the thread.. I see lots of skepticism expressed. You shouldn't be surprised that 996 owners are willing to spend $340--sight unseen--for a device that ostensibly can save them from a $20,000 engine failure. Keep in mind that 996 owners pay $300 for an oil change or dinner at Ruth's Chris... $340 could be cheap insurance.
I hope FLAT6 will develop one more 996-specific tool... An IMS center nut size measuring device that doesn't require pulling the transmission! I'd pay in advance
I preordered based on the reputation of the people in this forum. $400 is just less $$ for the strippers. $25k loss for them would be serious...however, none of them seem concerned. I know where to get good advice
Didn't receive anything so far (aside the survey early July): is the newsletter in electronic format or post-mail?
Order # 106
At least he never said "There's a sucker born every minute" (
http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html
)
Porsche should step in here, if these cars require this kind of aftermarket device to tell you that you are screwed the factory should be willing to stand up for extended warranty.
regards
The newsletter is electronic.. We did have 5 bounces of the newsletter; perhaps yours was one of those? Email us and we'll re-send to you.
It may well be in your spam box.
Just tuned in here after visiting J. Raby's web site. What's up with the IMS GUARDIAN? Program cancelled? I was looking for update on estimated delivery date but the product seems to have disappeared from his site. What's up with this?
It sounds like he's working out the legals and details with the suppliers so he's stopped accepting orders.
Once this hits the magazine my guess is it will explode and he better have some units ready to ship.
"We have halted further sales of the IMS Guardian units for the interim and will more than likely not be accepting any more orders until the Excellence article is published in the November issue." -Jake (a few posts back)
The newsletter that was sent to all the pre-purchasers explains the current status of the orders in detail.
The response to the pre-orders was overwhelming. I don't think that people here realize that other than this thread we have not mentioned this development ANYWHERE ELSE! It was not even mentioned on the Flat 6 website except under the pre-order offering when has already expired.
Literally had this thread not popped up there would have been zero mention of this product until it was featured in the Excellence article and was available for sale. We did all the development behind closed doors.
The best news is that the technology is patentable and we are moving forward with the full patent to further protect the technology.
At the present we have two objectives with this development:
1- Fill the IMS Guardian pre-orders.
2- Make as many units as possible in preparation for the debut that will occur in mid October. (I am sure we will sell out of what we can have made and on hand the first day anyway!)
Everything is working smoothly now. The best news is that the units will be made in the USA (at least for the first major production run)
We have worked very hard on this, it has taken all of my time for the past 6 months and I haven't even been able to host an engine rebuild school since February! I often find myself staying at the shop two-three nights a week all night, working till 0400 and then back up and going before our organizational meeting at 0815 and then working that whole day, going home and working on it there until I crash. We have done this right and you will appreciate what we have created, it is much more than just a product.
No more sales till the full debut and all the discounts are over!
We are working a modified schedule this week due to the "M96 101" Engine Rebuild School that Charles and I are instructing here at the Flat 6 facility.
I'll keep the update short:
-Most subscribers will begin receiving their November issue of Excellence in the next 10 days or so. This may be sooner for some.
-We have depleted the entire world supply of Porsche seat heater switches that are required for the product to seamlessly integrate into the dash.
-We have dedicated an entire section of the Raby Engine Development facility to the assembly and production of the systems and are carrying out all related tasks here under our roof. The factory is only providing sensors and printed circuit boards for these units as their quality did not meet my standards for the completely assembled IMS Guardian System.
-Patents have been filed and the provisional has been issued, it will take the required amount of time from the USPTO to carry out their processes and red tape. We have received the Trademark registrations as well. Our Patent Attorney had to search over 80 similar forms of art to ensure the system both did not infringe on any currently patented art and to ensure that the technology was unique enough to qualify for its own patent. The features that we incorporated with the system made the big difference.
Pre-Order purchasers will receive another newsletter as soon as I am finished with my duties at the engine rebuild school :-)
Pre-Orders and pre-order pricing has been over for weeks.. You can place an order when we open the site up, which will occur when the Excellence article hits in the very near future.. I am working hard on the site but its not quite done yet.
Just watch for ordering details, unfortunately if you didn't submit a pre-order you'll be waiting a hefty amount of time for a unit...
Actually the beans weren't spilled until you made that post. I really appreciated the method that the Excellence writers approached the description of the technology and want people to read that article before conclusions are jumped into..
The writers explained the technology better than I can, because they didn't care what sold, they just did an overview.
Anyway, the link that you posted isn't the greatest comparative due to the way those sensors work. We used a certain placement for the sensor and worked to design characteristics into it that optimize it for this application specifically.
The key with this technology is that it samples the very first symptom of IMS bearing failure and can catch a bearing failure as early as stage II of the four stage process. This means before ANY harmonics or camshaft deviations are present the bearing can be noted as beginning to fail and the proper action can be taken.
The majority of engines that we can't repair are taken out by the collateral damage that occurs when the sample medium the IMSG utilizes effectively destroys all the internally lubricated components.
By the time you experience a camshaft deviation the engine is completely compromised due to foreign object debris that has passed through the engine (which is all ferromagnetic) and has effectively taken out critical internal clearances. The stock oil filter includes a bypass, at start up (when pressure is high enough to pop that bypass) and when the filter begins to become clogged the filter does very little to protect the engine up stream.
The IMSG is also a modular system that can be employed at other places in the engine and gearbox. The additional components to sample even more areas of the drive train are already underway and part of the patent. Unfortunately the full patent is going to take 3 years to have processed, the provisional is already registered.
The system will have lovers and haters. Its simple, effective and easy to install while being very effective and well developed. No perfect product exists.
So I suppose a dumb question now that the beans have been spilled.
Does the wear sensor you selected monitor for both ferrous (stock bearing) and non-ferrous material??? (lne ceramic hybrid)?
Their is no provision to test for silicon nitride material in the retrofit bearings as it is not ferro magnetic. The races of those bearings are ferro magnetic, so the system is still effective for engines with a retrofit bearing. With the retrofit having a 100% effectiveness rating currently its a non-issue.. Those who want to monitor other wear within the engine that can emit ferromagnetic material can employe the IMS Guardian for the ability to monitor engine condition from the dash.
The pre-purchasers will be the first to get their systems.. They will start shipping next week, just waiting on the switches from Porsche. It could be 12 weeks before we can fill the mass of orders that were not pre-purchased.
I came in this morning to 60 emails about the system, so the magazine is definitely out. While I have been instructing the class this morning we have received another 12 emails. Our phones will be busy for weeks it appears.
Interesting to see how this plays on the decision to purchase for those who have retrofitted the bearing already. Although I understand your point about the system's ability to be "effective" for engine wear including the race of the retrofit bearing. Would you not agree that this is targeted more for users who have not retrofitted yet - since it seems bearing meltdown and the presence of enough ferrous metal floating around seems to be synonymous with IMSBF. And I'm not saying there aren't other modes of failure within the engine that could trip your detector.
I understand you had a limited testing schedule and were focused on the IMSB, and probably did not simulate other primary failure situations such as spun rod, shaft/bearing damage, etc. - I would be very interested to know how effective (tolerances) the system would react in those possibly "already too late" situations as well...
Great stuff though Jake !!!!
Yes the beta test is still being done. The only thing that the beta testers were ever going to help us with was the initial overview of the kit.. Things like packaging and instructions. The function of the system was not something that we needed them for as that development and testing is complete and has been for months.
I opened up the ordering pages on the site again last night. The first units are very near completion and will soon be shipping.
We ONLY have enough switches to make another 35 units after filling the pre orders. This means that if you nab one of those 35 you could expect your unit in mid October... Otherwise a reality of 6-12 week backlogs eill exist. All the units are being assembled and tested at our facility as the factory failed to meet my requirements for quality on 3 different occasions.
I will have more web pages up in the next week or so about the technology to include FAQ. We have been primarily focused on manufacturing to fill the orders we already have.
Most subscribers have tgeir Excellence Magazine now... Or will in the coming week.
All orders up to #144 will be shipped in this first batch.. We are now just awaiting a couple of simple things and finishing the install DVD.
Its been a long road full of hurdles and bumps. Nothing about this has been easy and I will be VERY glad to get the development behind me.. This technology is going big places outside of the Porsche world; too :-0
Jake,
Sorry to ask a question that you have probably already answered?.
Will you be emailing us when you take payment and ship?.
Thanks in advance and sorry if its already been mentioned.
Regards
Richard.
Hello Jake:
I've just received the November Excellence issue and read the whole article.
What I can see is that the system is really basic, and was designed to send an alert when the 2 magnetic poles are bridged by debris closing the electrical circuit.
I can imagine when this ocurred, we have time enough to look for a security place to stop the car and asking for tow.
As both poles are very close, I supposse that we have a comfortable margin of security to save the engine.
Good to know that It could prevent another failures different to IMS too
The dash button, could be placed in the rear center console if the upper console is full up interruptors...
What about those who installed a Sylicon Nitride hybrid bearing?
If it would fail, the resultant debris is not metallic to be magnetize.
Thanks in advance for the system and your response.
Kind regards
Joaquin
Haven't received the magazine yet so thought I will ask: are you shipping domestic only or overseas as well?
Same question: will you ship overseas (I'm #106)?
Maybe I'm assuming too much here, but if you've been using the LN magnetic drain plug and spin on filter adapter, (like I have) which are all good things, wouldn't that also delay or maybe prevent the IMS Detector from giving adequate warning?
The magnetic sensor will be installed in the same place of the drain plug as It's a modified plug, magnetic with 2 poles. So It replaces the one you have
Uploaded with
ImageShack.us
Rinchard,
Pre Authorization Forms will be emailed to ALL pre-purchasers TODAY! The email includes a very detailed description of the device, warranty information and FAQ. You must fill out and return the form before October 7, 2011 or you will be bumped off the list. We will be process your credit cards and ship the product out the week of October 17th.
Thanks,
James
No, not at all. Because the oil that is being sampled by the IMS Guardian is BEFORE any oil filtration. The IMS Guardian sensor totally replaces the stock drain plug or the LN magnetic drain plug.
The system is unaffected by the choice of oil filter, however a good filter greatly reduces the chances of a false positive occurring.
This question was asked earlier in the thread but I am happy to answer it again. The LN products are wonderful products. We work hand in hand with Charles and think the world of him. The IMS Guardian (as well as the LN Magnetic Drain Plug) are located in the return oil system before any filtration. Thus, in theory, the magnets of the IMS Guardian will pick up any ferrous material prior to getting to any filter.
There is no problem in leaving your LN Spin On Adapter in place with the IMS Guardian. This will only further protect your engine in the event of a bearing going out.
James
The spin on adapter provides 100% full flow filtration, whereas the stock system allows oil to bypass the oil filter in certain situations.
http://www.lnengineering.com/spinonfilteradapter.html
"The LN Engineering Spin-On Oil filter adapter also helps improve the longevity of your engine by providing full flow filtration, which means 100% of the oil gets filtered without having oil bypass the filter (as the factory filter housing allows for)."
Hey Everyone,
For those of you that took advantage of the "Rennlist Pre-Purchase" Discount, you will be receiving an email today. This email details the product (if you haven't read the Excellence Article), answer FAQ, and also details the warranty information.
Please read this email over and download the ATTACHMENT that includes the Authorization To Purchase Form.
You will need to initial the Authorization Form where indicated, and return back to Flat6Innovations.
NOTE: PLEASE INDICATE BY CHECKING THE APPROPRIATE BOX IF YOU WANT A FLAT MATTE OR GLOSS FINISH.
Yep we listened to the demands of our customers and went ahead and gave you a finish color....you have no idea how difficult it was to make that happen.
Thanks,
James
Maybe I'm making it too simple but wouldn't bead blasting with the appropriate compound have achieved this effect?
In the watch world, this is commonly done on bracelets and cases.
If anyone is going to be at Road Atlanta for The Petit Lemans Race, Jake and I will be around on Friday. We have a functioning demo IMS Guardian with us and would be happy to show it to anyone interested. Give us a call at [phone removed] and we can set a time to meet up.
James
Just curious as to how the wiring is routed from the bottom of the oil pan and if there are any concerns with the wiring getting snagged from road debris and such.
James, thanks for that post. I am at the track today and have the temporary 888 phone line forwarded to my cell phone.. If anyone is around and wants to see the device today, just give a call. When prompted state your name and say "I'd like to see the IMS Guardian".
Beadblasting did not yield positive results. We made the switch covers as cloe to the OEM finishes as possible. They are close enough that unless someone stares at the switches for 30 seconds they won't know the difference.
Raby Engine Development is a technology company, not a fashion company. What we care about most is a simple installation and a functioning system that saves the life of an 18,000 dollar engine. The exact finish of the switch covers is important to the owners and thats why we made them as close as we possibly could.
Fashion doesn't save engines; if it did all you'd have to do is wash the car twice a day and it would never experience an engine failure.
Concerning road debris and the IMSG Sensor:
We are going to offer an optional sensor protection plate that will cover the entire bottom of the engine. This will guard against any other possible road hazards.
I will add that I have done all the testing of the IMSG on the backroads of North Georgia. This includes dirt roads and situations that would almost be considered "off roading" to the majority on this list. I have not had a single problem even when I was not driving the car carefully.
The sensor protection plate can be added at a later date. If anyone does have a situation where a road hazard failure occurs we can sell them the sensor replacement only without a complete system- no problem.
I even ran over the remains of a blown tire at 80 MPH with the IMS Guardian in place with no ill effects. It damaged my front bumper, but not the IMS Guardian sensor.
Unfortunately I'm going to be letting my pre-ordered unit go to the next in line.
That money will likely go towards F6I crankshaft balance/magnaflux and possibly some others.
I will probably order the unit again at some later date.
Sure or fax it to [phone removed]
Logray, reply to the email and tell us that you do not want to follow through with the order. No problem.
I have met with a couple folks here at Petit already, both of them saw the IMSG and bought a unit on the spot :-) They are at the end of the line behind the pre-purchasers, though...
The factory skid plate will work but it is seriously over priced..
The install is no different for a tiptronic car or a manual.
The next add on to the system will offer a second sensor and an iterrated light and buzzer that can install in transaxles and front diffs on C4 cars.. This allows the entire drive system to be monitored from the same dash interface as a modular system. Just install the secondary harness for the transaxle additions and monitor everything at once as a plug and play system.
A few questions:
1) My car has an hybrid bearing installed. It's a SKF Sylicon Nitride ***** bearing. It's supposed that my IMS engine is reinforced. But my question is:
What happen if my IMS begins to fail? There are no metallic debris to be captured by the magnetic sensor. Or, Could it be useful in this case?
2) Do you consider important to get an oil sample to analyze at least every oil service period?
Thanks in advance
Question.....my order did not go in until July 9th. On this thread, there are three pricing options listed:
While we are still waiting on the "BIG Announcement" in the trade magazines to launch the product, I can tell you the following:
1. Retail Price: $389.95 (+ shipping)
Rennlist Discount Price: $365.95
2. Rennlist Pre-Order Pricing: $339.95 (+shipping)
Good only through June 30th, 2011
Must use promo code "RENNLIST" when ordering
But on the authorization form, there are only two options:
__________!I!agree!to!purchase!the!IMS!Guardian!for!the!cost!of!339.95!( pre"orders!made!in!June!2011!
only!all!orders!placed!after!June!30,!2011!are!not!part!of!the!promotion !and!are!sold!at!the!retail!costs!of!
389.95)
What happened to #1 with the Rennlist discount?
If I got the email does that mean you were giving me the Pre-Order Pricing???????(cause you are nice)
Thanks
Excellent...I was out of stamps! It's scanned and emailed to
[email removed]
. Apparently we will be contacted later for payment info. Or maybe we provided that before...I can't recall.
Any Papal Dispensation with the one year warranty for the tundra dwellers who will be hibernating soon for 4-5 months and thus loose out on the full warranty protection ?
Yes because we are nice..
All orders placed before June 30 were given the 339.00 price.
All orders received between June 30 and September 22 were given the 365.95 price..
All orders placed after September 22 are full retail at 389.95
We had 4 winners, actually just two of them nailed the technology perfectly, the other two were close enough that we wanted to be fair. Both the winners were in the Aerospace Industry.
I placed my order in that time frame but my receipt shows the full retail price. How does it get adjusted if I'm going to go through with the purchase?
-Eric
We have all the orders logged by date. Your cc charge will be the discounted price of $339.95 plus $15.95 S/H (Flat Rate Continental US) if you ordered by June 30th.
Thanks,
James
But what does your pre-authorization detail state? Thats what matters, it suprecedes EVERYTHING to date.
As James stated, we broke it all down by dates, so even those who forgot to state "Rennlist" on their orders still got the discounts.
So what does your pre-authorization state? No need in posting any of this here, just reply to the email that you received and let my team work it out.
Tomorrow is the cut off for the pre-authorization forms to be returned. Orders that are not pre-authorized by midnight 7 October 2011 will lose their promotional pricing and will be sold at the full retail price of 389.95
I just fired off another IMS Guardian newsletter with details.. if for some reason you ordered the IMS Guardian and have not heard from us, or authorized your order, please contact us ASAP as you are one day away from losing your unit to someone on our backorder list.
The Instructions and DVD are being finished up tomorrow.. At this time we just lack a single component to wrap up (supplier sent us the wrong damn connectors for the fuse box) this first round of 376 units.
Thanks for all the kudos, private messages of praise and especially your support of this development.
Here is a completed, boxed and ready to ship IMS Guardian!
Thanks guys for getting those back to us by the deadline. We now have all the authorizations except for about 8 of them, so James will be calling those folks today to ensure they received the emails and that they either do or do not want the IMS Guardian.
Out of all the pre-orders we only had two cancellations, which is pretty amazing considering so many people bought something blindly and had to wait two months to have it unveiled to them.
We will extend the cut-off date through today to give you guys one more chance... After midnight EST you will lose your IMS Guardian and your discount and your IMS Guardian will be used to fill one of our backorders.
We are on schedule for the shipping of systems the week of October 17! Thanks for support and thanks to Rennlist for allowing this thread.
Well Guys,
It looks like Dominoes Pizza in our War Room, but the IMS Guardian is coming together exactly as planned. Jake is now editing the Installation Video and just like everything he does, it is perfect....honestly, if this Porsche Development stuff doesn't work out, he has a good future in **** production...I'm thinking his first production is going to be: "Fast and The Curious: Bozy and Their Toyz Part 1". Just kidding Jake.
If everyone on this forum knew the countless hours put into this project, you would think we are either crazy or 100% committed to Excellence.....Probably both.
Shipments start next week.
James
The cut off for the pre-purchasers is just an hour away.. We only had a few that did not end up purchasing the system, which is fine because that will take away a few of the back orders...
This has been a fun developmental process but I have to admit that I am ready to hand the product over to my retail team and get on with the next project.. Every day for the past 3 years I have thought about this and every hour of my time since February of this year has been dedicated to completing the development. James has busted his *** with logistics which allowed me to work on the testing and confoiguration of the system.
Together we have created an awesome product that installs seamlessly without a single splicing of an electrical connection. Creating something is what anyone can do; making is simple is the genius part...
Next you will see an IMS Guardian "extension" that plugs right in and creates a modular unit that also monotors transaxle wear and even front diff wear in C4 models. We designed the ability for the unit to be expanded to monitor more than just the engine, from day one.
You will see this technology in other places very soon... I have a universal system in testing now and one of these is finding its way into NASCAR where it is being used to monitor drivelines on cars being used to test changes on a chassis dyno. We are now trying to get the unit approved by NASCAR for competition use; especially on road courses where tranny failures are the primary cause of attrition. With any luck this will happen in 2012.
Seeing those boxes all packed up gives me a chill up the spine... We don't do this for the paycheck as much as the sense of accomplishment. Under paid and over worked is just fine as long as we get the job done better than everyone else.
Thanks for all your support. Can't wait till you guys take delivery and start installing the units. I have set up an IMS Guardian Support Forum on our Raby Engine Development Forums.. Thats where your tech questions and support needs should be posted.
Pre-Authorization for the first batch of systems has now ended. If you were a pre-purchaser and failed to return your worksheet your order has been cancelled.
Thanks to all of those who followed through with their commitments.
Here is what you have to look forward to very soon!
I'm thinking maybe I'll replace connectors on the sensor with more weather proof connectors for long term durability, especially for people in the snow states.
Thanks for the pics Jake. Question: How would we secure the wiring around the oil pan?
Do you know the life expectancy of this sensor?
Are the crush washers("sensor sealing gaskets") a standard size we can purchase at any auto parts stores and will it matter if we use copper or aluminum?
@alpine003,
Very good point about the connector?.
@Jake
Would it void our warranty if we change it for a Weather proof connector?.
If water/damp shorts across will it possibly throw an alarm?.
Thanks.
Jake,
Are the orders being shipped Monday? Just curious as I'm taking a trip to The Dragon next weekend and hope to install before leaving. I'm have almost 8k miles on my Motul oil but I will change it before leaving no matter what.
Thanks again for all the hard work on the development of the IMSG.
Regards,
mike
We have lots of kits ready to be shipped.. They just await a single damn connector that the supplier goofed up on.
The MCD sensor connector IS weatherproof. We have sealed these units from the elements with longevity in mind. The test units we have worked with have not had sealed connections and in testing had no issues with corrosion or negative aspects.
I designed the system so the circuit is completed by the sensor, but that circuit is a GROUND circuit, so there are no chances of shorts to ground like could occur if the circuit completed a positive charged circuit.
You could change the plug if you'd like, but I'd rather the system be left as shipped since thats the way that we have developed it. We have used high quality automotive grade wire even though the max load of the system is less than 1 amp; this wire will also resist corrosion better than cheap aluminized wire made for appliance applications.
Concerning the life of the sensor: I have tested the sensors to 515F in hot oil before they began to show signs of failure; even then it took an hour at that temp to compromise the unit. The sensor was tested for 30 hours at an oil temp of 350F and it did not show signs of failure, and the magnets were only slightly weakened even at that elevated temperature. I spend 3 months researching and testing magnets before we settled on the units that the IMSG uses. We had to consider strength, resistance to heat (to above 325F sustained) and the ability to withstand thermal cycling.
At the present the IMSG sensor has a very conservative service life of 45K miles based on the data we have collected. I believe the sensor will live longer than that, but always go conservative. Each IMSG system has a serial number located on an asset tag thats attached to the circuit box. If anyone needs a replacement sensor simply supply us with that unique number and we can provide a sensor without a complete kit being required.
In aviation applications the MCD sensors are generally changed every phase inspection for drivetrain systems, @ 400 hours, which would equate to around 24,000 miles on the ground. The aircraft applications are generally 1/2 what the component is actually good for and turbine aircraft engines and gearboxes run much hotter than anything on your M96.
As for torquing the sensor.. Its not rocket science and can be done without a torque wrench. Tighten the sensor by hand and then tigthen it 1/4 turn further than that with a wrench and the torque will be spot on what we developed the sensor to be torqued to... We don't want anyone to require special tools to install this or change their oil so I put time into this aspect of the unit.
We will be offering special sockets for sale on the store site that are modified especially for MCD torquing, but these are not part of the kit.
We have the system down to a science to the point where no splicing is required and everything clicks right in to place.. . The system is so simple that the entire install DVD is only 12:54 in duration. The install DVD is now completed and includes 18 steps from draining the oil to performing the operational check after install. Installation manual is 16 pages, written very clearly and concisely for the DIY enthusiast.
Kits begin shipping Monday, we will forward each buyer tracking info when their system leaves. It feels good to be done with this one.. Now to finish testing with the modular system that allows add ons for the greabox and front diff (C4 only) into the existing IMSG system.. Literally you'll be able to daisy chain the add ons to the existing system with no major effort.
Then its time for the aircooled Porsche systems and the universal systems for everything with an engine or a gearbox. We are awaiting NASCAR approval now for use in Cup cars in the 2012 season. Joe Gibbs Racing has already ordered units from us for their engine and chassis dynos and they are pushing hard to have these devices approved by NASCAR for competition use in engines, gearboxes and differentials...
The IMS Guardian technology has a big future and has already decreased the unemployment rate in our town by creating new jobs.
Optical TDI,
Thanks for that...
I am a bit of a freak with perfection and don't know when to stop. Hell I have 18 hours in editing the DVD alone! Thank goodness this is fun for James and I..
For those of us whose driving includes urban areas with stop lights... 400 hours is more like 12,000-15,000 miles which when doubled (using your negative guardbanding QA method) gives 24,000-30,000 miles. Maybe there is another sensor with a better MTBF for auto applications. How will the system indicate a failing or failed sensor? Hopefully the additional non-crankcase sensors that you have described will have longer MTBF in their applications.
If the sensor fails the system will also fail the "press to test" function test.
The sensors will be very cost effective to replace if they ever do need to be replaced. Those cars that might only see 15-20K in traffic also don't see oil temps that are elevated like freeway driven vehicles, so the life would be increased.
Nothing lasts forever; thats what Porsche tried to do with extended oil service intervals. The sensor can be swapped at an oil service in less than ten seconds. By the time that anyone reading this post reaches the end of the effective service life for their sensor we will already have the v2.0 sensor tested up and available for upgrade to all existing systems. This version adds the ability to remove a bayonet from the center of the sensor and inspect it without draining the engine oil. The v2.0 is more intricate, not as simple in construction and is requiring much more testing than the current version.
Never fear, you will WANT to upgrade before your current sensor even gets close to the end of it's service life. Thats the engine evolution I shoot for~
Clarification:
The sensor that we are providing is our product 100% and is application specific to the M96 engine application. From fitment into the sump plate to magnet spacing, strength and elemental composition we have designed, built and tested this sensor for the M96 engine from scratch.
Thanks for the great response and product Jake. I know there is an automatic check when you start it but for any reason if the sensor fails or wires get torn from road debris and such while you're on a long road trip, will there be any alarms going off? Or do you either need to restart your car or press the test button?
Also, any plans for coming out with piggyback unit to sense the cabin filter? lol.
No alarms will sound if a wire is torn off.. However the sensor and wires/ comnnector is robust.. If you have any road hazard conditions that would damage this; you'd know it.. A few weeks ago in the test car I had a little inclident where a Crow didn't get out of my path quick enough and I ran him over. It was a really big bird and I even felt the floor of the car move with the impact. After the contact I simply performed a test of the circuit using the "press to test" feature and all was well. Thats what I'd recommend anyone to do after impact.
A "press to test" can be carried out at anytime that the ignition switch is in the "ON" position, even if the engine is not running.
We have an optional debris protection plate being manufactured now that will provide the ultimate protection for the IMSG sensor and wiring. This is of course an option and is not mandatory, but people requested it as an accessory so we designed one.
You should order now.. General availability may never occur because we can't keep up with demand.. Primarily because Porsche can't make enough switches fast enough.
We still have 300 more units on backorder to distributors, thats the entire next batch. I think we have 13 left out of the current batch.
The damn switch makes the install seamless, but it is expensive as hell and hardly available.
Jake, how about an option for those who are not as concerned about aesthetics, rather function...
Maybe the option to install a "provide your own" simple spring loaded rocker switch like this:
For example switches inside a race car are built for purpose, not looks.
This would appeal to me, not sure about others...
The Porsche rocker switch is just a switch after all right?
The switch has a small circuit board in it's composition that allows for the self test and two different color LEDs... A standard switch won't allow this.
HOWEVER!
Since we have developed universal set ups that can be installed into ANY car, truck, plane or train we have had a switch made for these applications that is much simpler. We may offer this for the guys who are not concerned with looks, but thats very, very few people.
The problem with selling a system without a switch is the fact that we lose our control over the quality assurance of the unit; something I am not open to at all. I have no tolerance for returns or things that don't work out of the box.
The 987 and 997 will be getting the universal IMSG arrangement since the dash does not have any switches that are properly configured for the IMSG to work. This same universal set up is what we are providing for Joe Gibbs Racing.
Believe it or not my Wife is the one who recommended the seat heater switch be used as the warning/ test interface for the system... Not bad for an Accountant that holds 4 Land Speed Records at the present :-) Until she had that idea we were going to use the universal switches even for the M96 units.
The universal switch is expensive but it is very small and features the light bulb inside it for the "press to test" feature. You two are the first people who have been accepting of "function over looks" since February!!!
We have sourced every salvage seat heater switch on the planet, we may sell some units that have a "previously loved" switch when we run out of the current batch.. These people will be given a choice to wait, or get a used switch.. The switches never go bad..
Jake,
I apologize in advance for my laziness but I just couldn't go through 630 posts to find the answer. Here are my questions.
1. Will IMSG detect imminent failure of of retrofitted LN Engineering IMS Bearing also?
2. What does the IMSG install entail and do you provide an instruction?
Thanks,
Yes- If that ever occurs. The IMSR races are ferromagnetic, so they can also shed material that can be monitored by the IMS Guardian.
A 16 page full color instruction booklet is included with the kit and will be uploaded to the website soon. A 15 minute installation DVD is also included that walks the installer through the 19 step installation process. This will also be embedded onto our site in the coming days.
IMS Guardian order processing is underway. The first batch of kits were processed today and will ship tomorrow, some people that are in the immediate area will have their IMS Guardian in their hands by the end of the week.
I have opened up an installation support forum on our online community, this is where I will be supporting installations.. I ask that all technical questions be posted on that specific forum and not here... I can't be all over the place!
Jake,
Addressing this to you as you are the only one I know.
Trial post to see if I setup my account properly. Photo (if there is one) is off my 996 on the lift in the pristine shop of Vertex Automotive. A wider angle would show engine parts strewn all over the floor. Anxiously awaiting my IMSG connected to the new Stage II motor at the end of the month.
This is a test.
Your IMSG will be installed next week; just prior to the 3.8 liter beast that is being assembled as we speak.. The nightmare you have been experiencing from dealing with sub-standard individuals is almost over!
We've been shipping around 50 systems per day this week.. The last units will leave on Monday.
Remember: We have set up a support forum and I'd like for all the tips, comments and etc to be posted there.. This is so we can build a searchable data base of info as well as immediately answer questions.
I have closed the entire facility tomorrow in remembrance of my Dad who passed away two years ago tomorrow..
Oh yes, I forgot about your forum. I registered the other day, but Rennlist is daily habit. I'll remember to check in there and post feedback. I hope to install mine next week. It's about ready for an oil change anyway.
Great question......I've got one concerning the queue also, If the last shipment for the pre-orders was on Mon. 10/24 and # 93 received his on Thurs. 10/27 what happened to order # 82 ?
Same here, order#106 is queued, though I e-mailed back the authorization in due time.
Never received the Excellence magazine either, so I'm actually starting to get cold feet about all this, and in particular the torquing method.
Having to place a second order for the adaptor is only a great news for shipping company.
Hi Chris,
Regarding the Torque adapter,
like the video said 1/4 turn with an adjustable or a crows foot with torque wrench should be fine I think flat six are just offering a more convenient method.
I see the adapter as a necessity.
Regards.
I was the #3 phone order. Didn't receive a tracking # until I emailed and requested one. I'm guessing they are pretty damn busy over there so hence the lack of communication. Be careful because they initially charged me full price and had to call but they corrected the problem immediately.
As far as the kit goes, installing it tomorrow, had a hard time finding Locktite 5900 but after talking to Permatex, The right stuff is the same as 5900.
The kit is constructed excellently. It is very comprehensive and the quality is great.
Instructions are hard to read, very low quality printed instructions, and the video is whatever. The video and instructions leaves out some information such as torque specs (I'm sure there is a reason for this). I'm also not sure on the cleaning of the sump pan and what kind of "mineral spirit" to use. Any input on that ?
Is it just to clean the old gasket material off or are we suppose to wash off the pan?
But other than that, the kit looks great.
Yes we are extremely busy, but that is never an excuse not to communicate. I will answer all of these recent questions in this post. Remember that we have set up a support forum for the IMS Guardian and this is where all technical questions should be posted, we can only monitor that forum on a daily basis.
ALL the systems that we received authorizations to process have been shipped! The last of these was shipped one week ago today and all orders (authorized) have been filled to date.
Due to the nature of the way these first units were sold the online store was not used for the processing of the orders in amy manner other than name, address and card details. We processed the orders manually so we could be very comprehensive in regard to filling the orders.
We shipped the systems in the order that they were AUTHORIZED, not in chronological order based on the sales ticket number.
Also, the kits that received the support hotline also left last since we were awaiting the custom door jamb decals for those kits.
We had over 300 pre-orders to fill all at once and had new orders coming in daily, so there is a possibility that we missed someone's order. We now have units in stock (only 50 or so) and since the article has been released and the site has been opened with all the info we are no longer having to go through extra steps to fill orders. Place an order and it ships hassle-free today.
If someone has not received their system this would be the reasoning:
-1 The buyer did not supply the authorization form by the cut off date. We required authorizations on all orders to ensure the purchasers were happy with the product, shipping costs and technology overall. We did not charge any cards or fill any orders from those that did not authorize them.
-2 The kit is still en route and was shipped last Monday.
-3 The buyer did not communicate or accept our newsletters/ emails and therefore could not authorize their order. We had 13 buyers who NEVER responded to our emails, newsletters or multiple emails to include the authorization email. We finally canceled these orders and destroyed their card details AFTER we tried to contact each by telephone at least twice with no luck.
Believe it or not the phone orders were the most difficult to process and I know of at least two that we did not have correct email addresses for.
ANYONE WHO PLACED AN ORDER AND HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED FOR IT PLEASE EMAIL
[email removed]
ASAP.
ALL orders that were authorized have been charged and have been shipped.
We do not wish to leave anyone out! Having such an ungodly amount to process at once was a total nightmare. While other companies are laying off employees and having a hard time, we find ourselves much the opposite by having too much work. I like organization and hate it when we face constraints that make us feel disorganized.
To answer some technical questions:
Why get cold feet? The adaptor is not required!! In fact through all of our testing we never once ever torqued the sensor until we were forced to do so during the development of the torque adaptor! The fact is that some installers lack the ability to know when something is correctly tightened and these people want a torque value for everything. Receiving emails asking how the unit would be torqued is the only reason that we made the torque adaptors.
The torque adaptor is simply an option that we created based on requests from IMSG purchasers. Nothing more and don't feel like you have to buy it to carry out installation, because we have never needed it.
Believe it or not I believe you were the only person that was charged full price by mistake.. The Rennlisters on this forum were the only people that received special pricing and some orders did not have "RENNLIST" at the bottom of the order form.
We had considered supplying the sealant with this kit, however I was concerned that we'd have someone use too much sealant and create an engine failure from a blocked oil pick up tube, or that they would have an oil leak and point the finger at the sealant. For these reasons we did not supply sealant.
Thank You.
The written instructions are also posted here as a PDF right on the Flat 6 Innovations site and have been for two weeks now. They are more clear than the printed directions supplied in the kits. The printer of those directions really stiffed us and the issue has been rectified so future kits will have more clear directions.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/imag...n%20Manual.pdf
What did you feel the video left out? I put a lot of time into the video, trying to make it comprehensive enough but not intimidating for those who viewed it. The goal is for vehicle owners to install the kit, not shops because it is really simple.
This is because the MFR has changed torqued specs 3 times for this engine. Also because of liability if someone cross threads a fastener and it snaps off before it reaches the specified torque and they come looking for a handout because they "were only tightening it to what the instructions said".
This varies from state to state, especially in California. Typically paint thinner is a good solvent to use, but a can of Gunk engine cleaner will also work. Ensure that the rubber windows on the sump plate do not contact any solvent! If so they will be compromised!
The job is intended to ensure the sump plate is free of existing ferrous material
that could mean you are experiencing a failure immediately. It is also intended to remove this material so the chances of a false IMS Alert are avoided as some ferromagnetic material will collect in the corners of the sump plate.
When pulling the sump plate the main objective is to clean the area, secondary objective is to document the process for future reference.
The instructions have been made more clear and are posted online. We now have the sensor torque adaptors ready for sale and all orders that were authorized have been shipped one week ago. Like any new product we had a couple of gremlins to work out and those are now behind us.
I HATE complaints with a passion, but it looks like one day I'd realize that any time you interface with 300 people on a business level that they are going to exist- I never learn.
We have also had one concern about the sensor location and protection from road debris. We are finishing up a protection plate that can be purchased to guard against road debris contacting the IMSG Sensor.
We had to grow the company to support the IMSG demand and it appears that more growth may be necessary. We are very busy but doing our absolute best to stay on top of orders and questions. If anyone has any questions or concerns about their order please contact me directly and I'll ensure that if you were left out in some way that we take care of the situation right away. Its all good now that we have some units in stock. (not expecting them to last long and Porsche can't deliver more switches till the end of November)
Napa carries a copper 5920 that works great.
7.5ft lbs for the pan.
Acetone.
Just to clean the old selant. But the purpose I suppose of opening the sump plate is to ensure any existing debris is cleaned out of it so you don't get any (early) false alarms.
This is the only part of the process which I am a little concerned about, the recommendation to remove the sump plate seems a little on the more advanced DIY side compared to the rest of the procedure.
I can envision a situation XXX months later where people have applied more than the recommended 1.5mm bead of flange sealant or in the wrong places causing a.) leaks, or b.) potentially worse: too much silicone floating around the oil galleries and clogging up a hole leading to other more serious problems.
If the sump plate must be removed, for this reason I would recommend professional installation.
Just one viewpoint on the sump plate.
I agree that sump plate removal complicates the install. Through our development I did learn that it was something that should not be avoided unless the installer was willing to accept a false positive from residual material in the sump.
Anyone who can change their own oil can remove and replace the sump plate. The process could be skipped, but the chances for the false positive is greatly increased because most cars have NEVER had the sump plate removed, so 80-100K of residual material needs to be removed.
I'm a believer too Jake, but would you have a guy at Jiffy Lube do this on your car?
I don't know if you provided this info, but here goes just in case:
(I suppose I should register over on your forum too...)
Just please... a LITTLE silicone really does go a loooong way. Here's an example of what the application of flange sealant should look like just before you reinstall it (camshaft cover is shown (ignore the red stuff you only need the line around the outside) but sump plate is the same):
edit: after having assembled my own engine using 1.5mm and then disassembling again to see the results I can certainly agree even that is too much! I would follow Jake's advice of using 1mm.
Here is the recommended bead location (black line), and keep the bead close to the bolt holes when you get around to them (if you put the bead on the wrong side of the bolt hole it will leak!!!!):
Also important to ensure the pan is installed straight and is aligned perfectly with the bolt holes FIRST time!!! You don't want to wiggle the pan around after you've pressed it onto the crank case.
Jake has an excellent You Tube on the deep sump kit installation, which may also cover some of these points. (of course you only need the part about removing and then reinstalling the sump plate, not installing the deep sump kit).
edit: Note the expert use of a razor blade to clean the sealing surfaces in these videos. Be careful using a razor blade unless you have experience with that, if you use it at the wrong angle you can easily gouge the metal.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hksmnbT1ew
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7ox-DVE5eg
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3XNbwzM57g
In my M96 "101" Engine Rebuild School I instruct the assemblers to only use a 1mm sealant bead and a little does go a long way. More is not better.
I will probably end up going over this aspect of the job more on the site since it seems people are making it out to be much more difficult than it actually is.
Thanks Jake for the explanation it does ease the frustration......but here's my sit rep. My authorization was faxed on 10/01/11 at 9:17 am. On 10/20 I received c-phone message from Dean that my address wasn't complete and advised me to call him at [phone removed]. Attempting to make contact, I got a recording that the number does not accept outside calls. I made contact with you at [phone removed], corrected the address and informed you about your phone prob. Today I received another message from Dean about my address and to again contact him at [phone removed] which still spits out the "this number does not accept outside calls and your other line is nonstop busy. Soooo if you could verify your Latitude and Longitude, I have in my possession a most highly trained pigeon and we can complete the transaction old school.
Dean has been made aware of this order and will be calling you immediately.
The order is being shipped via Next Day Air on our dime. You will only be charged the standard 15.95 shipping charge.
I guess as someone who works very closely in video production and videography, I found the video to be a bit lacking. I would have done it a bit differently with a person narrating the video with pausing in-between to caption what was necessary. Kind of like a walkthrough.
The quality of the video was not very clear either. It definitely is acceptable in the realm of automotive videos but with the easy access to Canon 5d or 7d with HD capabilities, it would have been nice to see a HD video. Considering that I was using my laptop to do it.
The video was shot with a Canon XL-2 Camera. I purposely reduced the quality to favor posting on the web. I am an engine developer who has completed many instructional videos for myself as well as other companies in the automotive world. All I care about it getting the point across. We are a technology company, not an entertainment company.
We have already sold the IMSG in 16 countries, (most of which are not English speaking) so doing a narrative would have been a nightmare.
You can also use
Drei Bond Silikon - 1209
, which is recommended by the Porsche workshop manual. The part # is 00004320373 and it can be purchased from any Porsche Dealership. $14.18 wholesale. It's also known as ORMD-WINDOW ADHESIVE.
We use the Drei-Bond exclusively.. HOWEVER it is much more difficult to apply and has to be used very sparingly.
The 5900 is far from my best choice, it became the preferred sealant after technicians were using too much Drei-Bond and creating engine failures. Used properly the Drei Bond is definitely the best product.
Jake,
The product looks like a nice complete kit. However....
Kit is sitting in my garage. I probably won't install it until I change my oil in the Spring.
Removal of the sump plate takes it out of the DIY realm for me, as I don't have a lift and laying on your back with the car on jack stands is ok for oil change, but not fun for removal/replacement of the plate.
My suggestion for the second gen IMS Guardian...........
Utilize a wireless transmitter like the tire pressure monitoring systems to eliminate the need to hard wire anything.
Terry
The R&R of the sump plate is not a requirement, however it is highly recommended to reduce the chances of a false positive. Removal of the sump plate is not that difficult, however it does add time.
I had considered a bluetooth version and the universal system we are developing now for other applications, but cost will more than likely be prohibitive.
BUT the wiring aspect is simple as hell.. Its really as simple as robbing power via a jumper from an existing switch, then stick the "add a circuit" adaptor into the fuse box and its done. It can't be any easier or better.
Jake,
Firstly my kit has cleared customs I have now paid import tax and its on its way!.
Many thanks.
Secondly on the mention of false positives would I presume that the first thing to do after switching off the engine if it were on, Would be to remove the sensor and inspect what and how big the debris is that has triggered?
Will Curil-T work as a sealant? I have that.The only auto parts store here is NAPA and they don't have Drei-Bond. I am taking my car to my mechanic friend today for install and he believes he has an appropriate sealant but not Drei-Bond. I'm thinking the Curil-T is better than Locktite products but I don't know for sure.
Thanks for the input. The IMS Guardian is installed and working. We used Locktite 5900 sparingly on the sump after meticulously cleaning it . My mechanic had some difficulty with the connections due to my car varying from the instructions and video. He called Flat 6 and Jake happened to answer the phone and provided the needed info. Thanks Jake. My sump was very clean after 79K although there was some very small fine black granules that broke apart to powder when rubbed between my fingers. Mechanic wasn't concerned-thought it was carbon. Does that sound right? It was a very small amount and barely visible.
I'm curious, for those who have installed the guardian, where did you route the wire through the firewall? I've done wiring in my Jeep before, and usually getting wires from outside the passenger compartment to the dash is the least fun part.
That is certainly the least fun part of the IMSG.. We made the wire harness long enough to support any routing that the purchaser could imagine. every different year and model has various routing methods, as long as you stay away from heat sources and road hazards it really doesn't matter how you pass the wires through the body.
We will have IMSG units on hand at The Mille Porsche event at Atlanta Motor Speedway tomorrow and will be offering special pricing at the show :-)
Jake,
firstly, many thanks mine arrived today it only took USPS 3 days to get it to the UK but then the postal service in england took two weeks to travel a hundred miles LOL. No wonder we are an island.
I have a question, Would it be necessary for any debris to short across both contacts to throw a warninng?
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
