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YOUR RESEARCHMuffler extraction issues...
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I soaked all in WD 40 several times, used heat on all of them and they still snapped.
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I was always going to replace the brackets, but some 2 years later I have never gotten around to it.
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Suggestion
To use them I would have had to replace the hangers (17 & 18 on the diagram).
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I thought that the brackets that came with the PSE (I bought it from another member and it came with a set of brackets) would help, but the bolt pattern changed sometime after 2000 and the PSE came with the newer brackets.
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So - thought this would be an easy Sunday morning task. I was dearly wrong. 7 years of heat, moisture, vibration and road salt turned every nut into something that more resembles an artifact from the Titanic.
Needless to say, heat, nor WD 40, nor elbow grease succeeded in getting them off. 4 broken bolts and the POS still won't come out. I give up - will take to my indy and let them lose skin getting them out unless someone has a brilliant idea.
Just venting. Why, why, why wouldn't someone have used stainless hardware for this particular application?
Doh!
Check out this thread with a
great annotated PET diagram compliments of Tim
(thanks Tim!). Make sure you didn't do what I did and randomly discombobulate connectors. Each muffler only connects with 3 bolts.
The vertical bolts can be inverted and you can use them next time you want to swap mufflers.
-td
First off, thanks to Tim for the diagram it helped tremendously.
You know, I read this tip about inverting the bolt but after taking them off I don't think this would be particularly easy at all.
In the bracket the stainless steel 'wool' vibration bushing is a tighter fit than anything else and I can't imagine trying to get the muffler tabs lined up and the bolt through.
Next time I take the muffler off it will be the same way with the three bolts on each side. ymmv.
Y'all are welcome! I'm glad it helped.
I agree with K996's statements above. The first time I removed my mufflers I did invert the bolts (#24 & 25 in the diagram). When I went to swap the mufflers again, I couldn't get decent access to the nut on top of one of the bolts, so I removed the three nuts (#16) which was way easier. I also agree that the stainless steel 'wool' vibration bushing is a very snug fit and would be more difficult that aligning the 3 bolts in the bracket holes.
I guess you could remove the rear bumper and heat shields to access the two bolts, but I think that take more time in total.
4 bolts. 2 that go through the muffler (24, 25) and 2 through the clamp on the one side (29)
This is seriously more way more trouble that I thought it was going to be.
There are 5 bolts per side. You may be trying to remove the wrong bolts. The bolts required to be removed should come off quite easily. Remove the 3 nuts on the bolts to the mounting bracket (item 16 in diagram above) and then loosen the bolts on the sleeve (item 29)
You DO NOT even touch the long bolts (items 24 and 25)
Yeah I know, but the 3 bolts through the mounting bracket are so rusted that I'm afraid they're going to snap like the rest have. If they snap, can they be replaced easily? If so, I'll go that route. Either way, I would have needed to remove the long bolts as I'm replacing the stock mufflers - right?
They are stainless steel nuts and bolts and I cannot imagine them cooroding to the point that they are difficult to remove. I have removed these mufflers for the first time on 99's recently and they are amount the easiest ones to replace.. The bolts are NOT removed.. Remove NUTS only.
Even is the bolts were to snap....easy replacement.
Glenn - muffelers are you going to put on the car. If they are OEM mufflers and don't already have the brackets, they you will need to reuse the brackets. Some aftermarket mufflers will also requite that you reuse the brackets. If the bolts on teh bracket do break, yo ucan always oeder another set of brackets from a dealer, or get some at a dismantler or wrecking yard.
Like
1999Porsche911
said above,
1. loosen the bolts on the cat clamp (#29)
2. slide the clamp on to the cat
3. remove the three nuts (#16) from the bracket
4. push muffler toward the fender, then drop and rotate it to get it out.
Thanks guys for all the help. Tried to do all of the above - the nuts are literally one with the bolts. For both the 3 on the bracket as well as the 2 in the actual muffler, to the 2 in the clamp to the cats. Broke the 2 bolts on cat clamp, broke the 2 bolts on muffler and am worried if I get aggressive with the 3 on the bracket they will break too. I soaked all in WD 40 several times, used heat on all of them and they still snapped. Didn't budge. They were absolutely not stainless - none of them.
The rust may be from the road salt in the winter? Have you tried penetrating oil (e.g., PB blaster or Kroil)? They work much better than WD40. Maybe pound on the nuts a little before trying to crack them?
GL.
- Ahsai
I had similar problems when I took off my old exhaust and put on a PSE on my 2000 C4. This was after five years (five winters). The bolts on the clamps (noted as 29 on the diagram) were so rusted I ended up cutting the clamps off and replacing them. the nuts that hold on the bracket (16 in the diagram) were also so rusted that even with WD40 and penetrating oil I ended up snapping off two or three of the studs. I thought that the brackets that came with the PSE (I bought it from another member and it came with a set of brackets) would help, but the bolt pattern changed sometime after 2000 and the PSE came with the newer brackets. To use them I would have had to replace the hangers (17 & 18 on the diagram). I ended up drilling out the studs on the bracket (they are welded in place) and refitting bolts through the brackets, worked out fine. I was always going to replace the brackets, but some 2 years later I have never gotten around to it. So good luck, if you break off a stud you can replace it.
Thanks Dharn55 - I was beginning to think I was the only one. The rust is absolutely from the salt. Funny though - while under there I couldn't see anything else that was rusty. I know the heat from the exhaust will accelerate oxidization, was just a bit surprised, as I have a 35 year old 911 that didn't have anything close to that level of degradation.
This is on the project list for me this weekend. Car has been driven during the winter also. I'll let you know what I run into. I'll just cut off the bolts if a quick hit with the impact doesn't work.
