996 vs Boxster S

Hello everyone, I posted yesterday that I am looking to purchase my first Porsche. Im looking at 2 different 911's 1- 2000 and the other 2001. Now my wife wants to look at a Boxster S, 2003 or 04. Has anyone purcahsed the Boxster S then regretted that move and purchased a 911....Any feed back would be welcomed.

I have both (although my Boxster is not an S I have driven a lot of 986 and 987 "S's"). Here are my thoughts. 996 - Way more power. Even the later 280 hp Boxsters (I have not driven a 295 version) feel down on power compared to a 996. I have driven a Cayman S and that also felt down on power. - Back seat is useful in a pinch. - 996 exhaust note sounds better, especially with PSE 986 - Hands down better handling - Lighter and feels it. - rear trunk is not as big as a back seat but is easier to access for transporting stuff. - Looks much better as a convertable than the 996 (this is just my opinion). I love both cars and they are both remarkably different and similar at the same time. I don't buy into the whole 911 is the ultimate Porsche thing and I wouldn't buy the 911 just because it's a 911. My advice. Go for as many test drives as you can and buy the car that "moves" your heart most. Or............just buy both.....

If you were looking at a 987 I might say to consider it, but not a 986. The engine noise intrudes uncomforatably so. The handling is good, but not fantastic and certainly below an M030 996. I've never been in one that did not have a major rattle. You have to choose between legroom and backrest recline. There were a lot of major improvements in the 987. The handling balance is far improved. The chassis is significantly stiffer. The engine noise no longer intrudes into the passenger compartment. The stock exhaust now sounds like a sport exhaust and you can hear it very clearly. There is far more legroom/backrest room. If I were to make a choice between between a base 987 Boxster and a 986 Boxster S, I would easily take the 987. There also isn't much of a performance difference between the 2: 258 hp vs. 240hp, but the base 987 is lighter and handles better. You probably put yourself on a capped budget of $35-40K. I would definitely go for the 996 based on your choices. If you are set on a convertible, I am not a fan of 996 cabs due to the weaker chassis and the 200 lb weight penalty. I would then recommend to get a 987 Boxster, which an 05' is now going in the mid-$30's; which should be in your range.

go and drive both and tell us about it...

buy a 996......

Thanks again for all the advice. Budget is not a real issue. I m looking at something in the $50-55K range, thats in Canadian dollars...This will be a second fun car for the two of us.... I like the back seat option as somewhere to throw my golf clubs etc.......and I like the power that the 911 brings to the table......I will have to take both models out for a test drive...but if the Boxster doesn't come through with flying colors then the wife will have to accept the 911. Maybe I could trade her in and upgrade to a GT....hahaha

check out some canadian rennlist's posts regarding buying a used car in US and ship to CA. i believe you can save a bit if everything works out

911......... i was debating this as well when i was shopping around... but i was looking at the 01 911 and the 05 boxster........i love the 911...it just looks nicer..... in my opinion

Thanks pl, not sure where to look on rennlist for that info..thought about that, but in the end I would only save about 4-5k and alot of paper work..Has anyone here in the Great White North (Toronto) area done this....if you can offer some advice that would be great..Thanks again everyone...

I concur with the assessments regarding both the 986 and 987 Boxsters. I test drove a Cayman S and almost bought one, but I live and work in the country and having a car without at least a sun roof would not make me happy in the long run. So I test drove a 987 Boxster S, and almost on a lark, I decided to test drive a Boxster. I thought that there was no way that I could ever like a car that had less HP than even a Toyota Camry, but was I surprised. The Boxster is a ball to drive, and you can actually enjoy driving the car without flouting speed limits. I almost made the error of paying $5K more for an Audi TT, Porsche was discounting and Audi wasn't, but am I happy I decided to test drive the Boxster. It's a better car than a TT in every way ,and you can buy one for less than a TT. As far as chosing between a 987 Boxster and 996, I agree with others who suggest that you test drive both cars. Both are outstanding cars and it comes down to individual preferances.

My first porsche was a 986 S and it was really nice. However, it took 4 months until it turned into a 996. The main reason was the size of the boxster S. We took a weekend fall trip and it was really tight in the cabin, I had to stuff my jacket between the seat and the door, it was too much. The size coupled with the fact that my friends immediately called me 'the hairdresser' when they saw the car gave it make a quick exit. Performance wise the 's' handled a little better and the 911 had a bit more power. Another quick note: my wife fought me to keep the boxster but, when she went for her first ride in the 911 the boxter became a distant memory.

WOW Thank you for all the advice..this is great....I will post pics of the car when I get it....hopefully nextweek...CHEERS!!!!

GO FOR THE 9 9 6! Here's why....you won't hear many people saying....."geez...why on earth did I buy this 911 when I could have grabbed a Boxter instead?" Now, the opposite has been said many many times. Not ragging on the Boxter, but I'm just saying..... J

You can't even spell it..... Sounds like you have a ton of experience with the car... Not ragging on you by any means, it's certainly your prerogative to buy a car based on its name. I've always preferred to make my purchase decisions based on how they drive.

The size coupled with the fact that my friends immediately called me 'the hairdresser' when they saw the car gave it make a quick exit. No offense, but it seems to me that you may be a little insecure. I never let the opinions of others influence my car buying decision. If my friends like my car that's great, and if they don't TS. I remember meeting a very attractive girl at a bar several years ago, and one of the very first questions that she asked me was what car did I drive. I was driving a 993 at the time, but for the hell of it I told her that I was driving a Lexus. She smiled and said that's great because she doesn't date guys who drive sports cars because she believes that most of them are insecure and need a car to bolster their self image. I don't believe that her observation is true, but sometimes I'll read a comment that suggests that maybe she had an insight.

Isn't it great having to choose between 2 great cars? I was in a similar position a few years ago. Like most have said, drive them and pick the one you like the most. I wanted a convertible and I'm happy with my choice. If I wasn't looking for a convertible, the beautiful lines of the 996 coupe would have drawn me to a 996. There's a noticeable difference in power between a 986S and a 996. That being said, the 986S is pretty damn quick itself. Unless you track the car, it's more power than you'll ever need. Then again, you might just want more anyway. Best of luck in your decision.

Hi Ray....haha....you are right...I won't even bother editing that error...but you nailed me. I did drive a few "boxters", but not the s....and while it's a great car, and handles better than most on the road...it just didn't do it for me. Reminded me of the feel of my old MR2....and I needed more. I still respect the car and admire the looks....just not for me, and I stand firm on 911 owners not regretting their purchase over a boxster. There are plenty of people who buy 911's after the boxster, but far fewer the reverse. Best, J

I think it's a power thing not a nameplate thing.

Well I've owned three 911s, the last being a 993, and I just bought a Boxster. In my case it was buying a car that best met my driving needs. When you live in a beautiful part of the country as I do, then you want a car that enables you to enjoy the outdoors. I considered buying a 997 cabrio, but when I found that I enjoyed the Boxster just as much, why pay the extra $50K? I also considered a 996 carbrio which would have closed the price differance with the 987, but I have never owned a used car and I didn't want a Porsche to be my first. In my case it is getting to be more and more difficult to find opportunities to push my car hard. Even in the country there are more and more cars, and to make matters worse traffic law enforcement has increased dramatically in the last ten years. My local government has discovered that it's a great way to increase revenue without raising taxes. I suppose it's just a matter of time before speed cameras are installed since surrounding jurisdictions already have them and they are boasting about how effective they are, i.e., how much revenue they are taking in. Moreover, with the ever increasing price of oil, I feel as though I'm being responsible by driving a car that gets great gas mileage. One of my neighbors bought a hybrid, and I really surprised him when I told him that I was getting around 27 MPG in my Porsche. He was only averaging 34 MPG since he does mostly highway driving. Hybrids do best in the city since they can operate off of their batteries in the city. So it's not always the case of buying the best car that you can afford.

Thanks again to everyone who responded to my question...I will post again when I get the car..Cheers

Non taken. I get needled about the c2 as well, just thought 'the hairdresser' thing was a good one.

Thanks Duffs4. I'm happy you took the post in the spirit in which it was written. When I owned my 993 I kept getting asked if it were true that all Porsche owners had small organs.

I'll throw in a few things not mentioned so far. The difference between a Boxster S and a Boxster is not very big....the difference between a 986 and 996 is HUGE. On a track, you may be able to really use the extra HP of teh S and the bigger brakes, but I had a 97 986 and on mountain roads, 986S's couldnt pull away from me. The cars are both VERY good....you feel in control and the handling is almost psychic...you think about it and its done...its that fast. The 996 though is a BEAST of a car. The extra hp and torque are WONDERFUL and in the right hands you will be faster than the 986. The 986 is EASIER to drive fast and is very forgiving up to a point. The 996 (and I am speaking of the C4 as thats what I have and drive hard) is VERY stable..much more stable than the 986. It fells like its on rails and in fact many C2 guys say a C4 isnt as fun to drive because well it feels too planted. Also if you ever get caught in the rain, or wet roads, the AWD system is a dream....My Boxster used to have the rear out ALL the time on canyon drives, but the 996 never gets out of step, and goes around the corners faster...The 996 also has a faster corner exit speed and you can get on the gas faster...the 986 allows you to go into corners deeper, yet you need to wait longer to get back on the gas....All in all both cars are a hoot to drive. For daily comfort the 996 winds hands down. Looks is a toss up, maybe a slight nod to the 996. Driving experience...both are good....I have to say that both cars I had did not have stock suspension....the Boxster had Eibach pro springs, and teh 996 has PSS9s....the ride of the 996 is WAY better than the Boxster...the Boxster felt like it was riding on bricks. Drive both, EXTENSIVELY...dont go on the around the block test drive....get an extended test drive in a 986 and a 996 and pick the one you like best.

Man, get the 996.

I use the 996 as a daily and find myself using the backseat to transport items... the 996 interior feels a lot roomier than the boxster... I sat in a Cayman S and I thought the interior in that car was also kind of small... nice car though!

My wifes had her Boxster for 5 years and I've had my Carrera Cab of nearly 4. These are not our daily drivers, just toys. I like the Boxster but it ain't no 911. Same argument I hear all the time...a guy wants a Harley, so he buys a Sportster, has it for a week, proud a hell, his lifelong dream is finally fullfilled. Then he goes to the bar on a Saturday night with the Bros and when he leaves he can't help but to hang his head in shame... he bought a girls bike. From this point on he cant' wait to get a REAL Harley, a guys bike. Maybe a little over dramatic, but there is a lot of truth in that. I know a lot of guys with Boxsters and they all say the same thing...the 911 was so much more money, the Boxster has a lot of the same parts and is a lot cheaper, the Boxster handles better, the Boxster is better looking, the Boxster is mid engined like the Carrera GT. These guys are trying to justify to themselves why they cheapened out in my opinion. My wife sincerely thinks her Boxster is better looking than my Carrera but admits my car is a lot more comfortable and better for traveling.

I don't want to be confrontational, especially over a subject like this one where I believe both cars are exceptional, but I find it intriguing that so many of you are influenced by stereotypes, i.e., the Boxster is a good car but I'm not going to buy one because it is a girl's car. I can understand it when a teenager is easily influenced by what others think, but my assumption is that you all are mature enough that you wouldn't let a stereotype influence you. On the other hand if someone's ego is frail enough where he is concerned about how he will be perceived based on the car he drives, I suppose it's best to acknowledge that fact and chose your car accordingly. Be careful however, since another stereotype is that anyone who owns a 911 has a small ***** and is trying to compensate by driving a "masculine car." Another stereotype is that a Porsche is nothing but an overpriced VW. I get allergy shots on a regular basis, and I had that response from my allergist. Initially I thought that he was joking, but after a couple of minutes it became apparent that he was serious. I suppose that his perception resulted from the Porsche /VW joint effort on the 914 or maybe because Porsche is a major shareholder of VW. It is such a ridiculous perception, just like the others, that I thought it was pointless to attempt to educate him. Bottom line , all I'm suggesting is that a car buying decision should be made based on what your driving needs are and which car best meets those needs, and not on stereotypes. I agree that the 986 has some comfort and aesthetic issues, but Porsche addressed those concerns with the release of the 987. I believe that anyone who test drives a 996 and 987 will have a tough time making a choice between them since they both are outstanding cars.

From my limited experience with the Boxster (non-S) when I had it for a few days as a loner car was enough for me not to want one. Having driving 911's C4's daily since my 2001 I have become used to the handling characteristics of the car so I'll use that as a disclaimer. Turns that I would take in my C4 effortlessly scared the **** out of me in the boxster I felt it could let loose (and did once) and recovery was scary at best. Just my experience.

Fast1....no offense....but you wouldn't be driving a Boxster or any other Porsche if you weren't into how you appear by driving it. There are loads of other cars that have similar performance, everyone knows that, and I think most would agree with my next statement. You drive Porsches because you love them....just like most of us. While I cherish the feel and history of these cars, it is nice that there is some status in ownership. Of course that is not solely why I own these cars, but it is a nice plus. Will I go to a Miata down the road?.....probably not, but they are fantastic cars too, along with the 350Z, G35 Coupe, etc. Again, just being real here. J

totally JBR

Having owned both a Boxster and multiple 911's, the extra room, power, better looks, etc. would always incline me to go for the 911. Having that extra room in the cockpit behind the front seats is always very useful, much more convenient than the extra trunk. Still my advice has always been if you want a convertible go with the Boxster. I think they look a lot better than the 911 cab. But then again, I think the 911 coupe looks the best.

JBRipps - Maybe you are right from a subconscious perspective because by definition I have no idea what is happening at that level, but consciously I never give it a thought. I have driven the Miata on several occassions and I think it's a super car and I would have no problem owning one except for the concerns that I have over its safety. It's just too small for public roads IMO. I also test drove the 350Z and G35 but I just wesn't very impressed with their build quality, and for not much more money I could buy a lightly optioned Boxster after the discount. So from my perspective I didn't see anything under $50K that came close to matching the 987 from a perspective of performance, build quality, and interior and exterior appearance. For those of you who believe that the Boxster doesn't have enough power, believe me I understand because that's where I was for the last 15 years or so. I couldn't get enough HP and I was always modding my cars for more and more power. Maybe it's because I'm older or because I'm getting tired of worrying about Stae Troppers or maybe because I don't track my cars any longer, but HP doesn't mean much to me anymore. And to my surprise I'm enjoying my car more than I did my prior cars which had well over 100 more HP, notwithstanding the perception that the 987 may be a girl's or a hairdresser's car.

a 911 is a 911 perioid.

I agree with rmillnj's comments. And I, too, have had both the 911 and Boxster models. Good luck with your search.

Well its apples and oranges really. Its like saying should I buy an X5 or a 5 series. Do you prefer a Sports Coupe or Roadster? People who say why buy a Boxster when I could have gotten a 911 are people who don't understand that sports car world has many types of sports cars: ,roadsters,convertibles,sports coupes,GTs,impractical track only cars. They all have different types of driving in mind. The BoxsterS is the car that sets the bar in its roadster class, albeit in way overpriced manner. On paper, an S2000 and the upcoming CR version, will perform just as well for less money. So obviously there are other factors that have drawn so many rave reviews of the first pure convertible of Porsche mass production. Steering feel, braking, styling, exhaust note, etc. I've lost count at the number of random strangers come up to compliment my car and think its way more expensive than it is. I always encourage them to buy one because they are very affordable and as low maintenance as you will ever get in Porsche. My buddy who has an S2000 simply doesn't have this experience with strangers and compliments. And he gets taunted by the spikey haired kids into drag racing much more than I do. As far as power.... If that's your game I wouldn't buy any non-GT/Turbo 911 or Boxster/S. I found them *all* to be undwerwhleming in horse power. There are much better options for the money if one dimensional "seat of the pants" oomph is your primary concern. On handling I found the BoxsterS to be much more nimble than the C2. Not sure if that down to engine placement (Mid vs. Rear). And The C4 felt way understeery and heavy, my two least favorite things. And most importantly on this issue, you have to decide if pendulus cornering is your thing or not. I found it to be fun but I prefer a sharper response from steering inputs in a corner. Both have excellent feedback from the low weight up front. Personally I measure a car by how it feels when it's rotating and not in a straight line. With 250HP I get from 0-100 in a blink, the last thing I or a passenger have ever said as the Boxer engine makes that harmonious wail directly behind the shoulders is "damn I need more power!". And in track/autox getting it wrong reminds you that you are a long way from being able to knock out 10/10's from the car 99% of the time. That momment of polar inertia is scary but the Boxster doesn't stray far from the point where the tires maxed out the grip and begins to over rotate. If the car is for fun and you have a more practical car to fall back on, I'd get the BoxsterS. I have several friends who have owned Boxsters in addition to Ferraris, Lamborghinis, M5's, GT3's and all say the BoxsterS is right up there on driving satisfaction. But at the end of the day you have to be either a top down person or you are not. A tough call in Canada I imagine.

let's keep it real at least these kids have hair to spike LOL j/k I've gotten many a compliments when I had my S2000. Not sure where you're going with that one. Porsche Boxsters are EVERYWHERE. Good advice all around. I'm a fan of the Boxster S, but had the S2000 instead so I never looked to upgrade to the BS because it really wasn't.

The Boxsters are everywhere when you live in a high income concetrated area! From 97-2004 Porsche only produced about 100,000 Boxsters. Compare that to the number of S2000 Honda made in 2006 alone. Outside of car clubs, I've never met another BoxsterS owner in the time I've owned mine. That was a big part of the appeal for me. I like to be the first of the people I know to try things.

Try Rural Kentucky, I am impressed when I see a 944! Aside from in Lexington I hardly see another Porsche outside of the PCA events.

Dude, your laser sight needs some alignment! I've had 914, 944, boxster (correctly spelled), and C4S. I loved every one, and didn't care what anyone thought. I agree with the prevailing idea that if you want a convertible, get the boxster... the 911 cab just doesn't look proper to me. But if you're into driving, get a 911 coupe. Any variety. Period. (If you're into fixing your car by the side of the road, however, get a 914! I loved every breakdown!!)

I traded my 996 for a new cayman s, needless to say I could of got all manner of used 911, even a 996 TT for the cash I could spend... my wife told me if I wanted to get a 2 seater, to get one now before we have kids. only two other cars I would trade the cayman for is the new R8 or a gallardo. realistically it would be the r8 since I can get it serviced locally....

maybe 9,000 S2000s each year bud

Not anymore. Honda let this car die on the vine like the NSX. Stick a fork in it, the torqueless wonder is a dead car walking.... Too bad, Honda could have tried to update the car (beyond the lame move to a 2.2 that is no faster than the 2.0). However in the end they make a lot more money pumping out Accords, Civics, Odessey's and Pilots.

Imagine what they could have done by simply adding a supercharger and beefing up the suspension and brakes to handle the extra power. All of this could have been accomplished, and the price of the car would still have been under $40K.

The second gen (2.2L) S2000 is an awesome car, the car is faster on a straigh line than the 250hp 986S (pre2003).. the 986S with 258hp should be a bit faster... the S2000 does not provide the same feedback that the 986S does, and the brakes on the Porsche are better.. If I wanted a convertible I would get a Boxster S not a 911 with the roof chopped off, the Bosxter's structure was designed to be topless from the begining, thats why is soo good as a roadster...

Boxster v. 911 This is easy and not because I have the 911. Stay away from the boxster. This car is as common as the vette or the H2. It makes the middle class feel and think like they have something special when they really don't. Once upon a time it used to say something when you saw someone rolling down the street in a caddy or a jag or even a vette. Now they are too common place. At least in my market. Personally I got my car because I had always dreamed of having one. I only chose the newer water cooled version due to my part of the country and its heat. Some get them for show. Others it's a dream thing. When you look at either car, which gets your attention most?

What's with the Avatar? This isn't Gunlist.

Loved my Boxster and Boxster S just as much or more than my 911 .......except my TT.

Ben, whats with YOUR avatar? This isn't "Boyz In 'Da Hood" LOL!! Jk brotha! ........don't shoot me!

Ray, read what the other dude wrote - he's implying somehow that the S2000 is a mass produced vehicle when in fact Honda produces less of them than the Boxster. The S2000 is a fantastic car and a car I'd still pick over the Boxster S. No hesitation.

Yea you're in front of a keyboard right now dude no **** and don't need my AK... just need to say boo and you'd start crying for momma. it was a good day

Honda S2000 over a Porsche Boxster S? I have news for ya Ben. I've owned a Boxster S AND a C4S like yours. The Boxster is every bit as great of a car as the C4S. Add to that the engine note and handling balance on the Boxster S and you can forget about it. The S2000 is way underpowered. Honda has NOTHING on the feel of the Boxster S!! The experience in the Boxster S is 100x's what it is in the S2000!! What a joke, honda hasn't added any power to their S2000 in 8 years. Even a brand-new S2000 only has 162 lb-ft of torque. I've driven several S2000's and I'd take an a Boxster S in a heartbeat!! You saying you'd pick a Honda S2000 without hesitation makes me really wonder about you...more than I already do.. The Boxster S is PURE PORSCHE!!!! EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS YOUR C4S!!

agree 100%

Disagree

I agree with you, if you buy a car based on what others may say. They are BOTH great cars and BOTH EQUALLY PURE PORSCHE! Both have the same PORSCHE FEEL, quality and experience. Drive BOTH and make your decision based on which car you like the feel of better. Not what others may say.

I agree with Ben, people should drive extensively a vehicle before giving opinions I have owned (996's and S2000s) and driven 986s at the track and based on that S2000>986(97-2002) 986(03-04)>=S2000 987>>>>>S2000 but still for the money and reliability the Honda is hard to beat.. I agree that the feedback and the Feeling of the Boxster is superior and the brakes are better but is embarasing that an "underpowered" NA 4 cyl vehicle can hang and beat SOME of our 6 cyl Porsches...

It is not faster in a straight line. Honda indicates the top speed of the S2000 is 150. Porsche indicates the top speed for the 250hp S of 161. Finally, the S2000 is not as quick as the Boxster S. In fact in SCCA autocross, the S2000 is classed against the Boxster, not the Boxster S. The AP2 S2000 has no more horsepower than the AP1. It has more torque so it has better drivability around town, but it also has a 900 rpm lower redline. Head over to S2Ki.com and you'll find those guys arguing almost daily on which S2000 is better/faster (AP1 or AP2).

Very true. It's amazing how many 'purists' are influenced by the opinions of even non-sports car people. Why buy a Cab when you can buy a Boxster? Why buy a Boxster when you can buy a 911? That sorta commentary makes me wonder if some people understand sports cars at all. Every car has it's unique purpose. I was set to buy an S2000 but wasn't 100% sold on the driving position or the dull feel at low rpms. A friend and former junior formula racer (who once raced against one of last year's McLaren F1 drivers) suggested I try the BoxsterS, as he regretted not buying one himself. That got my attention. The driving position for me was PERFECT, the braking is the best I have ever gotten in any roadster and throttle response was flawless, steering..as much as I liked the feel on the S2000 which was nice (I'm thinking due to the engine sitting rear of the front shock mounts) the BoxsterS steering was in its own league.. I got out of the car scratching my head "why would I need to spend more?? this covers all the bases for this category." My bank ended up getting back 60% of the money I borrowed for my next sports car purchase. The only thing I wish were different is that the car were about 500 pounds lighter. But you can say that about every modern Porsche.

when I said faster in a straigh line I didnt mean top speed.. I meant how fast it accelerates.. There is a lot of arguing on the internet about AP1vsAP2.. the truth is that in a track AP2s are faster

Couldn't disagree more. I'd take a 2.5l Boxster over an S2000. Sure the S2000 has better acceleration, but that's it. It's no faster (top speed) and it does not handle as well. If you want to disagree that's fine, but the fact that the base Boxster was classed against the S2000 in SCCA B Stock and the Boxster S was in A Stock (producing faster times) gives a lot of evidence to prove my point. Let's be honest, out of a 201 hp Boxster, a 237 hp S2000, or a 250 hp Boxster S none of these cars are particularly quick (compaired to fast cars today). These small roadsters are all about handling and the Boxster is flat out better than the S2000 in that department. The bottom line (for me) is, the single piston brakes on the S2000 suck, it has twitchy handling, a steel suspension, the aerodynamics of a brick, and it can't hold a candle to the Boxster in looks. Feel free to disagree, but every person (including me) that purchased a Boxster from 2000 on passed up on the option to purchase an S2000 along the way (and save money in doing so). People vote with their checkbooks and the public seems to agree the Boxster is worth a whole lot more..... Sure it's a great "value" choice, but so is the Sizzler steakhouse. Sorry, but I'd rather get a quality steak at "Mortons" and I'd rather drive a Boxster than be the king of the Fast 'n Furious set in an S2000.

I often point out the SCCA classing of the Base Boxster and S2000 to friends considering both. I think you really feel the difference in exiting corners between base Boxster/S2000 and BoxsterS in my opinion. You get the nimbleness of the base but with extra torque of the 3.2 The 3.4 engine in the new Boxster must be even better in this regard. But I agree *all* non-GT/Turbo Porsches are underwhelming in the power department when you consider what you are paying for. But that's the tradition. p.s. I wouldn't compare an S2000 to Sizzler. There's nothing budget about its construction, engineering and reliability. The fast and furious crowd may call it one of its own but that doesn't take away from the car or its 'better than any Porsche" gear box.... Does look dated though.... a make over is long overdue and the CR S2000 seems to be breaking no new ground in this regard.

I partially agree with you.. as I said in my post "I agree that the feedback and the Feeling of the Boxster is superior and the brakes are better" I do recognize that overall the 986 is more refined.. About the SCCA Classification please read it again, it has changed... now us 996's have to race against SRT-10 Vipers... Here is a link http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2006/stockc.html

LOL Ray man... talk about driving with blinders on let me cross-post this sucker

Brilliant idea.... Let's bring a whole bunch of 16 year olds from Honda Tech and S2Ki over here and we can really raise the bar on this discussion.... They can go on to tell us why the NSX is the best sports car ever made... How about YOU address some of the negatives I raised about the S2000 (rather than bring a teenage posse over)? If the car is so fast and powerful, why did you feel the need to supercharge yours? Why did you trade up to an E46 M3 and then trade up again to a 996? Man up Ben, don't bring some kids over to fight your battle.

Man or Mouse Ben??? http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=505946

Agreed, that is why I wrote "was" classed in B with the Boxster back when the Boxster had 217, the S2000 had 240 (237), and the BS had 250.

We don't need additional 16 year olds, we have Ben - he counts for 10. "Ben - 10": that's even a rhyme.

you Porsche cheerleader you Ray - just sit back and enjoy man - I think it's absolutely hilarious you post top speed as a negative LOL are you kidding me bud? And hey, nice internet sleuthing. You get a cookie for that one. Now you can thug out and tell them directly exactly what you think of S2000 and the stereotypes you put on them owners being 16 and whatever you got concocted. I like the Boxster S and think it's a fantastic car. Heck, I wave at them drivers just as I wave at the 911 drivers on the Seattle roads over here. But to pounce on the S2000 and call it a performance joke is... esp when you own the regular Boxster is... well. hilarious.

Ah Ben, still have not answered any on my S2000 negs. - The brakes - Single Piston and relatively small. If you took your old S2000 to the track I'm sure your familiar with the term "fade". - The handling - The AP2 is not quite as spooky as the AP1, but neither car is up to Boxster specs - The power - fantastic above 6k, but a dog under that. (I've driven Civics that feel spunkier down low.) - The dash - Did I miss a memo, is Atari cool again? - Radio - Don't make me go there... - Wheels - I know how you love your steamrollers on the 996, AP1's roll on 16's - Interior - Miles of hard black plastic - Storage space - Not why any of us buy a sports car, but it would be nice to carry more than a duffle. - Engine sound - Not bad for the first 5 minutes behind the wheel hitting VTEC. But tiresome over the long haul and a poor subsitute vs a Porsche flat six. - Finally, the drive - Every time I've been behind the wheel of an S2K, it seems like every car with stickers and a fart can exhaust wants to play Fast 'n Furious with me (sorry street racing is just not my thing, that's what race tracks are for) I'm not trying to be mean and I honestly like the car (just not as much as a Boxster). It really is a shame that Honda didn't continue to develop the S2000 with the same level of continual upgrades Porsche gave the Boxster.

Why would I want to do that? They obviously like their cars. Flame wars between boards are pretty childish don't you think? Never said it's a joke. In fact, I believe I said it's actually quicker than a base Boxster. What I would say is that neither car is a very good dragster (sure you can get to 60 in under 6 seconds in an S2000 IF you could care less about your clutch). What they both do well is handle.......except the Boxster does it better, IMHO.

Wow -- lots of factual errors being made here. Some background: I currently own a 2003 986S with the M030 suspension, and it's the best car I've ever owned. I also owned an S2000 for two years, and owned a 2000 986S before that. I have multiple national-level SCCA autocross trophies to my name, have a decent amount of track experience, am the author of the S2000 autocross setup FAQ, and was formerly on the SCCA's Stock Advisory Committee (the group responsible for autocross classing of stock cars). So I know a little bit about both the S2000 and the 986S, and how they perform when pushed to their limits. Firstly, the previous differences in autocross classification proves nothing. The SAC initially thought the 986S should be faster than the S2000, but were proven wrong when B Stock S2000s were regularly matching A Stock Corvette and Boxster S times. That's why the S2000 was moved up to AS -- it was clearly a match for the other AS cars, including the Boxster S. Since being moved to AS, the S2000 has enjoyed much more success than the Boxster. For example, at last year's national championships, the top S2000 placed second, while the top Boxster S (driven by a former national champion who had won a different class' ProSolo title earlier that week) was 1.6 seconds back -- an eternity in autocross. I personally think the Boxster can get the job done, which is part of the reason I'm driving one this year, but almost all of the autocross data to date indicates that the S2000 is at least a match for, if not better than, the Boxster S. Secondly, handling is a subjective criterion, and although I personally prefer the Boxster's handling, it's not obviously the better handling car. The Boxster has much better steering feel, and is more forgiving at the limits, but the S2000's handling has a directness that no other road car could match until the Elise came along. It's spectacularly quick in transitions, which is a big part of the reason why it's a match for the more powerful Boxster in autocross. Lastly, you're calling out a bunch of things which are subjective at best, and completely irrelevant at worst. Who cares if the S2000 has steel suspension as long as it works well? Do you ever hit your car's top speed, and even if you do, does the ability to go a few miles per hour faster or slower make or break a car for you? It's obvious you've made up your mind and have no intention of changing it (calling Honda owners the Fast and Furious 16 year-old set wasn't exactly classy), but hopefully my post will prevent others from taking your word as fact.

Nice post pedal faster. I like 'em both myself. I view autocross as significantly different than DE and racing. For DEs and/or racing, I personally would prefer the Boxster S. Just my two cents.

Bud, you're just digging a deeper hole. My point is, the S2000 is a fantastic car as is the Boxster S (not even going to mention the Boxster) and are very competitive to each other. Admit it, you're being a Boxster cheerleader and it's making you look like you wear Porsche panties, honestly.

Looks to me like you are simply enjoying sticking Ray with a fork. If you wanted to have an interesting conversation, you could respond to the factual assertions Ray made . . .

Great post, PedalFaster.

Read what he wrote up. I'm hardly sticking anything to anyone. He stuck a trite, heavily biased fork into this thread and even went so far as to throw nonsensical stereotypes against the S2000 and its owners. Sweet. Sounds like you aren't actually reading but instead conveniently skimming and giving him the benefit of the doubt in this thread. All I'm saying is, don't be so elementary and put down a car because it has single piston brakes that flat out work? C'mon, bro. I guess I just expected more of Rennlist/track vet like Ray S. Perhaps this is where I went wrong? I just did and I did you guys one better by having someone much more credible than I from the performance perspective share his thoughts (voluntarily, mind you). I kinda knew what he was going to say all along, but it just means so much more when coming from the horse's mouth - an accomplished horse at that.

sounds like you aren't reading my post. I said I like both cars. I haven't weighed in at all. I pointed out that your post was like doing the victory dance in a way to egg on more bickering from Ray. If you wanted to have a conversation you could have responded to the list that he most recently provided. I don't really personally care because I do not plan to buy a Boxster or an S2K, and I don't really care what people think about what I drive anyway

I am reading the post to which you directed at me. 1) I replied to his post line-for-line 2) Egging on or bickering, it's his will to do what he wants and given that we are on an on-line forum where we WRITE stuff, let it roll And you obviously don't care much because I'm sure you get a lot of **** for driving a 911 suntan barbie edition car. j/k

I didn't think I owned a real 911, or even a real Porsche for that matter. As I said, I buy cars for ME, not for anyone else, so I don't really care about "image." Funny, I didn't see your reply to his line by line. Again, not like you have an obligation, but I think you just like continuing the bickering. There are ways to end things, and ways to keep them going. methinks you enjoy the bickering Finally, I don't care much for arguing on the Internet. It would be much more fun if you could ever bring your C4S to one of the tracks I frequent and I would love to try to make you cry in my lowly little 147 hp n/a (non)Porsche 944. Now that would be fun.

Talk about panties...... You didn't have the ***** to answer a single criticism I laid out. Instead you cross-posted and brought someone from S2Ki (who only chose to address the autocross argument). Weak sauce Ben....

I'm kind of dense when it comes to parsing bulletin board slang and online intonation, but I think you just insulted me? What is a suntan barbie 911?

First, the Boxster S started in SS. The S2000 started in AS, directly against the base Boxster. At the start of 01, the SCCA re-aligned the stock classes shifted most cars down one class (mostly due to the Z06 being so much faster than the cars allowed to run in SS). BS Miatas were not in CS. AS base Boxsters and S2000s were now in BS. Even with the re-alignment, the Boxster S remained in SS. Later that year, Rob Falkner (probably 1 of the 10 best drivers at the national level) got 3rd place amongst a field of Corvettes at the national final. The next best Boxster S was around 20th. At the same time, the S2000 was continuing to dominate BS over the base Boxsters. The following year, the Boxster S was moved down to AS to be more competitive. After 2 years of BS S2000s running consistantly as fast as AS C4 Corvettes, they moved the S2000 and the 986 base Boxsters up to AS. The S2000 has consistantly proven to be a competitor due to its small size and light weight. But also keep in mind that 1 of those nationals, they had particularly tight courses and CS Miatas ran as fast as AS S2000s. To support a good part of this disucssion, the SCCA has also supported that the new 987 Boxsters have improved handling. The 987 Boxster S is in SS, while the base 987 Boxster is in AS. The 986 base Boxsters are proposed to be moved back down to BS at the end of this year. There is all the autocrossing history. A road course is very different from an Autocross. While brake are used for such a short time that fade is not an issue in an autocross, on a road course brakes are a key differentiator. The best autocross brakes pads (typically organic with high cold friction like Axxis/PBR Deluxe) tend to be overworked after only 2 hard driven laps on a road course. The same goes for brake design. The single sliding pistons of an S2000s calipers really start to show problems on a road course. They tend to overwear and cook the inside pads on the front. The other differentiating factor is power. With big sweapers and long straights, the S2000 doesn't have quite the pulling power across the rev range of a Boxster and speeds are much close. Boxster S models are noticeably faster. We even have a local DE driver who switched during the last year from a S2000 to a 987 Boxster S and he is significantly faster. Even with all these facts, I would not strictly follow the SCCA and their class structure. The SCCA Committees are both biased and predjudessed. They tend to make decisions that favor the individuals on the committee and not the masses. Try to figure out this one: The 405 hp 3150 lb C5 Z06 and 500 hp 3400 lb SRT-10 Viper are both allowed to run in SS, where the 280-295 hp 3050 lb 987 Boxster S competes. They are now going to let the 505 hp 3150 lb C6 Z06 and the upcoming 600 hp SRT-10 Viper run in SS. They stile do not allow the 400 hp 3400 lb 993 Turbo, 415 hp 3500 lb 96 Turbo, 480 hp 3500 lb 987 Turbo or the 415 hp 3250 lb 997 GT3 to run in stock classes. The reason consistantly given is to control the cost of the sport, even though you can buy a used 993 or 996 Turbo for significantly less than a new SRT-10 Viper. The interesting part of all this is how many national competing C5 Z06 owners are on the committee and are looking to move up to C6 Z06s. Hmmm....

Nice post. For a road course, I would unquestionably take a Boxster S, as I mentioned before. In fact, 100% stock for 100% stock, I would take a Boxster S over a 996. However, with suspension modifications, even "relatively" modest ones, I would take the 996.

A well presented argument. However, back when I was autocrossing they were classified together and the Boxster held up very well against the S2000 in spite of being way down on peak power. I am not into SCCA autocrossing anymore (all DE's now), but I seriously doubt that the current 237 hp S2000 could be competitive with the current 295hp Boxster S (then again I don't follow Solo II's anymore). Sure it's subjective, but if you really have experience in both cars the Boxster and Boxster S are subjectively better IMHO. BTW, the majority of the automotive press seems to agree with me on this point. This is precisely one of my points. The S2000 is obviously a quicker straightline car than the Boxster. However, to be quicker requires a major clutch drop that I would doubt most owners are willing to perform. It's low torque (off the cam) makes it feel week and unispiring (my opinion) around town. Couple that with the other aspects that I brought up (space, interior, equipment, materials, etc.) and I would argue that the Boxster and Boxster S are well worth the extra $$. Subjective yes, but a look at the sales of all Boxter's vs S2000's and it seems a ton of people spend the extra coin for the Boxsters. It's called sarcasm and it's unfortunate that you could not "read" it in my posts (it was really intended for Ben). However, I seriously doubt you would deny the "Fast 'N Furious" image that the car has as well as it's popularity among very young (and sometimes immature drivers). For just a taste of this, one has to go little further than the "Street Encounters" (read street racing) forum on S2Ki and other Honda sites. As I said in my earlier post, I like the S2000 but I believe the Boxster and Boxster S are better cars. That is my opinion, you are certainly welcome to disagree. Now, you may or may not have noticed but this is the 996 forum and the topic of this thread has nothing to do with Honda's. I'd suggest we get back to the topic and agree to disagree about 986's vs S2000's.

Ray, if you think that peak HP has anything to do with success at autocross, well, I just don't know what to say...

If you think that it has nothing to do with success, well, I just don't know what to say.... Clearly it is not everything. It is not. But your implication that hp doesn't matter just doesn't wash.

I can't believe someone trotted out the lame anti-Porsche conspiracy theory. The 987 Boxster S won't go into the current A Stock because it would be considerably faster than the rest of the class, making it an instant overdog. The current best car in AS is the ~$15k C4 Corvette, and even newer STis and 986S's can still be had in the mid-thirties. If the 987S became the car to have in AS, it would radically increase the class' cost of entry, which is why it's banished to SS, along with other expensive or rare potential overdogs like the BMW MZ4 and the third generation Mazda RX-7. The reason the 993 and 996 Turbos are still on the exclusion list is that no one has bothered to ask that they be moved to Super Stock. Write a letter to [email removed] requesting the 993 be moved and I bet it will be accepted. The 996 would also have a good chance. (Edit: I just wrote the letters myself, so we'll wait and see.) As for the alleged bias, only one of the SAC members campaigns a Stock class Corvette, and he's balanced by another who campaigns an Elise. When I was on the SAC, four of the committee's six members had or were currently campaigning Porsches. If the committee were to have been biased, it would have been biased towards Porsches, not against them. We're a long way from the original thread topic, but again, when someone posts a "fact" that I know to be false, I feel compelled to rebut it.

Notwithstanding some informative discussion, I thought that it would be useful to post the initial question since the thread has gone so far afield. I purchased my first 911 in 1970 and over the years I have owned three 911s, the last being a 993. So my perspective about regretting buying a Boxster over a 996 will be far different than someone who has never owned a Porsche. The mere fact that you pose the question suggests to me that this may be a concern for you, and therefore should be part of your decision making process. If you haven't bought the car yet, I would like to make your decision a little more complicated. For just a few thousand more than the price of a low mileage CPO 2001 996, you can buy a new, lightly optioned 987. The 245 HP 987 Boxster has less HP than the cars that you are considering, but it has more than enough power for the street, and you'll have a car that has outstanding handling and of course a four year 50K mile warranty.

I said peak HP, which is what you were comparing in your earlier post. And IMHO and in my experience, it's pretty far down the list of things that make a car quick in autocross, given the speeds are so low and so much more is riding on the suspension, available torque at the typically low exit speeds, and so on. Peak HP is a bench racing BS number under many circumstances, few moreso than in the cones.

I never said it was the most important factor. However, it is one factor (along with a slew of others) that does have some influence. It sounds like we agree.

God you guys, what is going on here? If you like a Porsche, buy a Boxster. If you like a racy car with NO torque that HAS to be drivin' up around 7k RPM's, that hasn't been improved upon in 8 years and goes fast around a track but drives like a civic on the street, buy a honda!

Harsh, but essentially true. I remember reading many years ago that the S2000 could do a 0/60 in 5.4 secs which was quite respecatble back in 1999, and then I took my test drive and as you suggest it felt like a Civic under 4K RPM. I have to admit however that the S2000 comes alive over 6K RPM. It's unfortunate that Honda didn't evolve the car because it certainly has a lot of potential.

And then we could do a 100m dash and make you look old and tired.

You still run dashes?

Yea just like I'd run you off the track sucka

Maybe speedwalkin is more your thing?

I am old enough not to care what you think about me

Ghetto Racer, is that you? I would be happy to race . . . TD

and you're all class bro with your mad amateur/hobbyist tracking skills. do you knit too? but not to fall too far off topic... I think bottom line, my point's been proven. The S2000 is a fantastic car and so is the Boxster S. It's OK to like both. It's OK to recognize the pros/cons of both cars. You don't have to put down one to raise up the other.

Ok now, looks like we have all kissed and made up .....Can we just all get along here?? Bottom line a Porsche is one hell of a car to own...Im looking forward to getting my first one....May have to wait an extra couple of weeks now...the wife just booked our family vacation in Huntington Beach California.... Maybe I should pick up a 996 while Im down in the LA area...and drive it all the way back to Canada...that would be an awesome road trip....

I love HB. I picked up my first 911 a few months ago in SF and drove it up. It was a fun drive. HWY 1 is amazing.

I have never been to that part of the States...usually go to the east coast (Boston area) only a 10 hour drive from Toronto ... I just love visiting the States...I can't wait the see what the Beach Boys sang about ... "California Girls".....my 16 year son must be going crazy counting down the days.....

You're in for a treat

I rented a Dodge Charger while Im down there...tought about getting a convertible....but I just couldn't drive a Sebring...should be fun::

Say what you want about TD, but I think it takes big stones to track a N/A 944. The only way to pass others (and 99% of those others have more hp) in a car like that is to be an exceptional driver and carry momentum (heck even my little 217hp Boxster has a massive advantage over his 944). Give someone a TT and almost anyone can appear fast as they mash the throttle down the straights. Give that same person a 944 and they need to be damn good just to keep up in anything above the novice levels.

Hey man I believe, I believe and i'm not doubting TD's skills or whatever cuz i couldn't care less, but the whole d!ck measuring effort is well.... laughable. that's all. Now if he was making $$$ off it... then I'd recognize, but otherwise, it's just another guy spending $ and time to do a... hobby. like knitting. haha am i impressed? hardly. am i amused? yes.

Benjamin, you are hilarious. Don't ever leave this forum.

who said anything about dick measuring? I am confident enough about the size of mine that I don't need to compare anything. Besides, I don't want to get near enough another other dude's tool to even verify, aaiigghtt? Also, if you look at my posts, you will see that I never said that I would crush anyone. I said that I would have a lot of fun trying to crush you. That is 100% true and I know I can back that up. And I don't get the "knitting" "insult". WTF? I haven't insulted anyone, including you, Ben, and you are trying to insult me with that? WTF mate? It doesn't even make sense. ppssssssstttt. I am not taking this seriously. And I don't give a shiiiittteee about the S2K or the Boxster S. ok? Jeez . . . too much testosterone and not enough racing around here. What's the most amusing thing around here? Your avatar!

It is the same reason why it is so much fun to pass faster cars, including 996s. I love hearing the excuses later

Me too!!

Join the fan club, though I think you may be the one and only member. Should you so choose to join I'd appoint you VP of Online Relations.

you took "knitting" as an insult? Wtf is right. Yea, and it's funny how the most insecure people seem to gravitate toward a lil' graphic - that's the whole reason why I put it up - it's an insecure dudes magnet. A you're the one who brought up the whole "meet me at the track" thing. Why don't we also line up our sandboxes and see who can build the biggest sand castle as well? Or who can rep a set of three piece wheels BBS wheels X times on an incline press? c'mon dude you're all huff and puff ready to burn the internet car forum house down with your mad hobby speed racer skills that no one cares about but you.

Now now Ben, don't be upset. If you didn't put it up to be funny, did you put it up because you thought it was cool? No insecurity here. I would drive a honda, a hyndai or any other car if I felt like it. I don't need to brag to you or anyone else. You either miss the tone of my posts, or you intentionally try to stir the pot. So, you are either an idiot or a troll, which is fine with me either way. I said that I would rather race on the track than brag about which car is better on-line. How you can twist that into a "dick measuring" comment is really beyond me. Why anyone would own a Porsche and not track it is inexplicable to me. There are so many other cars that are better for pure street use. But, again, I don't care why others do what they do. So, in sum Ben, since you cannot seem to understand what I have been saying, I will spell it out. 1. I don't care what kind of car you, or anyone else, drives. It is irrelevant to me. 2. I don't care what you think of the cars I drive. I bought them for me, not you. 3. I prefer to go to the track than get involved with, or even read, endless paper debates about which car is superior. How can you argue with, or be insulted by, that? Seems common sense to me. In fact, apart from sex, and spending time with my family, I can think of few other things I would rather do than go to the track. Talking about the track has nothing to do with huffing and puffing about mad skillz. In fact, my friends give me a hard time because I say that I am slow . . . so where you get this huff and puff BS is beyond me, unless, again, you are just stirring the pot because you like "drama" 4. If you don't go to the track, or are too scared to risk damaging your car, more power to you. Again, I don't care. It is irrelevant to me. 5. I hope you have a nice weekend, and that you find a better way to enjoy it than trying to start on-line arguments with people who are not even trying to argue with you. If it makes you feel better . . . you win almighty ben. Your avatar, knowledge of cars, and debating skills are second to none.

And I thought we had all kissed and made up.....can we all get along here... as for dick sizes...count me in for 21.5 centimeters that is...got love the metric system .. everything is so much bigger up here in Canada....

I wasn't even aware that there was a fight in the first place.

everyone have a great weekend....

S2000's suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so you really really care or don't care? care bear stare?

You too. The bottom line is that you cannot go wrong. Drive both and pick the one that makes you the happiest. If you do pick the 996, I will say that I was much happier with mine after I upgraded the suspension. I pretty much hated it before that.

TD - Well whatever it is, it's been entertaining. BTW what track do you frequent? I'm in northern MD and there's nothing close to me, and it's one of the reasons that I don't track my car.

If this isn't entertaining, there is no point to it. What????? there are PLENTY of tracks around you. I live in DC, Georgetown to be specific. I frequent Summit Point (both main and Shenandoah Circuit), VIR, Watkins Glen, and Mid Ohio. These are all outstanding tracks, and they are all as close to you as they are to me. Shoot me a PM if you are interested in getting involved. There really is nothing quite like it. DEs are so much fun, and racing is like chess at 100 mph. truly addictive.

I don't care Ben. Have a great weekend.

this is so much like the "dance offs" in that 80's movie "Breakin" with the break dance contests. When the guys go chest to chest and give mean stares......no punches tho of course....pure fighting by outdancing and outmoving each other. I love it....it amazes me how Benjamin is never at a loss for words.....brilliant. Let's have a dance off then. Have a great weekend everyone. J

That's why the track is so much better. You, the other guy, and a stopwatch.

I considered Boxster S and even had one on order from the dealer. In the end, I opted for a 993 C2S because it was a far more interesting car (to me) than the Boxster. You might want to consider a 993 as an alternative to the 996.

LOL I use to race at Watkins Glen, but it's hardly close for either you or me. Unfortunately, my job commitments make any weekend excursions all but impossible. Retirement for me however is less than two years away, and if you are still active at the track, I'll try to hook up with you. Best of luck at the track, and I'm happy to see that you like many Porsche owners do your racing at the track and not on the street. Have you been following the story of the five teenagers that were injured this AM in an auto accident in MD? Apparently the driver was racing, lost control of his car, and hit a tree. All five of them are hospitalized, but only the two that were thrown from the car are in critical condition.

Particularly if you want to drive a slower and heavier car. YAY, let's beat it on a Friday!

I hear you. I am finding the pressures of work and family (4yr old daughter and 3 year old twin boys) to be fairly intense. I may have to take a break for a few years myself. But it is fun. I haven't followed that story, but I have zero respect for street racing either. I am no angel, and certainly do things I should not, but I prefer the track environment. Hopefully we will join up at some point.

Hey, we are supposed to be making the guy's decision easier and not tougher by adding more choices. I suggested the 987 Boxster and now you suggest the 993. As a former owner of a 993, I believe that it was one of the most enjoyable cars to drive that I have ever owned. My recollection is that my car only had around 270 HP, but it just goes to prove that a car is far more than just some HP number.

Hopefully we will join up at some point. Looking forward to it TD.

The 993 is a very interesting car to own as a third car. Much more so than the Boxster, IMO. The 996 is great too, but the special features of the 993 make it the perfect hobby car for a Porsche enthusiest-- last of the air cooled, classic (some say the pinnacle of) 911 styling, retro cockpit, rarity (relatively speaking)- for e.g. only 1700 993 C2S's imported to the US-- so you don't see them everyday. Plus, they are holding their value better than any other modern iteration fo the 911. If the guy has about $40 K to spend, he could get into a very nice 993 and really have something special.

very true just joking around on a friday, but yes, I drew it!

TD, you crack me up......LOL

Mission accomplished.

T.D.....I rarely laugh to myself.....congrats....you got me on that one. Still giggling. J

Quick Ben......cross post to the 993 forum......

Lets face it fellas: 986's aren't better than 996's simply because 996's are more expensive. Porsches only attract admiring men, hardly women unless you're good looking like I am. Cabrio's are for good looking people Coupes are for ugly folks who hide in DE helmets. Wannabe boy racers at road course tracks are in the minority. Its just your hobby not a career. So what you earn $200k or $2m it doesn't earn you the right to be a *****. Any questions?

Yes, one. Did you have a rough night?

Nah, just F'n around.

Hey, from your description of wannabe boy racers, sounds like you would fit in better than I do. Hell, you might even win right away.

No DE's for me, I'm not smart enough to make car driving my hobby. DE drivers are like the classic jock stereotype from high school on this board. Stop trying to push non DE folks around. Damn bullies, I tell you.

Owning a fast car in the US, especially in Virginia forces you to go on a track. Speed limits are from the horse-drawn carriage area and law enforcement is just ridiculous (a cop told me lately on the NOVA toll road that it's really dangerous to go with 70mph). Puh, even a Ford Explorer is too fast for this environment! If someone likes to drive fast and doesn't want to stand with one food in jail all the time, then the track is the only place to go. I lived most of my life in Europe and never had the desire to go on a track. Traffic pace is just much faster there. So please no stereotypes for DE guys.

Hwk72, those bullies know who they are. There's no need to explain why you DE just as there isn't a need for folks who don't.

Nah, DE guys are just pretend racers. We have no winners, no losers, no passing in the turns. At the end of the day we don't even get a gold star. The wheel to wheel guys (club racers) are the real deal.... Pyramid of Speed

You choose better by price? Restaurants love to hand the wine list to guys like that. Heck even Porsche is worried that the Boxster/Cayman are "better". Why do you think they give them the smaller motors? Could they be protecting the goose that lays the golden eggs?...... The OP should drive both cars and choose the car that he likes to drive the most. Who cares what everyone else thinks?

I really don't care, it was just a joke. I won't get worked up one which is better. I sure know I wouldn't buy a Boxster but the Cayman's looks are growing on me though.

The OP should drive both cars and choose the car that he likes to drive the most. Who cares what everyone else thinks? Truer words were never spoken. As a matter of fact it's a fool's errand to try to please others because of the diversity of opinions. For every person like us who believes that Porsche offers the ultimate driving experience, there's probably at least one other that feels that anyone who buys a Porsche does so to compensate for some actual or perceived inadequacy.

Did someone say Oil???

I'll agree with you on that!!..

Oh, I took your post as being very, very serious, particularly because this thread is extremely serious (no joking around here) and there are some big *** bullies around here. Makes me tremble just reading this thread

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

Yeah, I've seen that before, now where am I on the pyramid hmmm?

Ahhh, finally some progress..

I'm coming down the Gtown to pick up some chics tonight you coming out?

In my house right now, there are 5 chicks vs. myself and my two sons. I don't think I could stand anymore of the better half. Big Love sounds great in theory . . . but I am just too lazy

After watching Big Love I realized it's cheaper to cheat..

I'm selling my 2000 996 for $29,000 U.S. and I would be willing to let you have it for $30,000 Canadian if you cover the costs of import tax and duty as well as any necessary conversion (daytime running lights is all I think). I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't cost much more than $5,000 tax and duty. I'll even drive it up there for you (I'm from Toronto). If I don't sell the car, I'm going to be driving it up there next month anyway. Think about it...

Hi Paul, thanks for the offer, but Im really looking at a 911 cab.