Ok - planning to put a techquipment roll bar in my '02 996 cab...harness question....

I want to put a 5 harnesses in the car as well but don't know much about this stuff. I have stock seats (manual - not power). Any recs on brands - there are so many choices I don't know where to start. Also, how does the anti-sub strap mount to the car? Do you have to drill into the floor? The Brey-Kraus mount (for the seat rail) states it needs to be used with a one piece seat with a hole for the sub strap - can you use a 5 point harness with a stock seat? The basis for my question is that the club I'm doing the event with requires a roll bar for all cabs with 5 point or 6 point harnesses. I'm only going to do 2 or 3 DE this year.

Hi Jason, got your email but figured I would post here so others could benefit if they have a similar question. You can run the rollbar with the stock seats but you HAVE to use the 3pt belts. The second you drop in a set of 5/6 pt harnesses. You HAVE to install seats that are made for that appication. In otherwords, seats that have shoulder harness holes and sub mount openings. But just running the shoulder harnesses around the side of the factory seat and the running the sub either over the front of the seat or through the back opening is actually MORE dangerous than you can possibly imagine. As an instructor I would NEVER NEVER NEVER get into a car with a student that has a setup like you are talking about. I know of another instructor at a recent event (good friend of mine) that actually did the same thing. Told the student about the risks and that he (the instructor) would only run the 3 pts and suggested the same. The student continued to ignore that advice, ran the harnesses as well as defying many other things so the instructor "fired" the student. If you are serious about safety the BARE minumium is rollbar with 3pt belts. Optimal would be proper seats and 5/6 pt harnesses.

+1 also PCA will begin enforcing these rules at the national level(meaning turning you away at tech) for 2008. My region actually started to enforce it now and then pushed it back to follow National. In the meantime everybody will encourage you to just use the 3pt seatbelts until you get appropriate seats. The idea is that this is a safety system and they all work together.

Not sure what your budget is Jason or when you plan on installing these items but I will know after this coming weekend if I will have a the Teq bar from my CAB and the GT3 seats for sale. If my wife likes the GT3 this weekend then we will share it for all upcoming DE events and turn her car back into a blvd cruiser. The Teq bar and seats have propably 3 DE weekends on them.

Dell, Let me know what you are looking to get for the seats. Thanks.

Thanks guys. I completely agree and would NEVER try to save $$ if safety is an issue. I'd be happy using the 3 point seatbelts alone. The problem is, the Audi Club REQUIRES a roll bar AND harnesses. I usually run my Audi S4 at these events but since it's highly modified and getting older, it sometimes isn't the most reliable to beat on for 3 days. If/when it breaks, I'd like to be able to go home and pick-up my other "track car", the 996. I really don't want to put in aftermarket seats too but may have to if there is no way to run harnesses with stock seats. LVDell - I'd be very interested in the roll bar. If I get seats, I'd probably get seats that are cheaper than the GT3s and just swap them in and out for DE. Any recs for cheaper seats? I may be able to find a set that can serve double duty - in my S4 and the 996 (assuming I can just install different sliders). Thanks for the advice.

Why is the special seat needed for safety? (serious question) Bill

Not 100% sure but I thought it had something to do with a 2 piece seat breaking under extreme forces and, with harnesses, potentially causing more harm than good.

Not so much a "special" but rather a seat designed for use with 5/6 pt harnesses. The stock seats are NOT designed for use with anything other than the 3pt belts.

996....I'll know if I am going to sell them after this weekend. Jason.....I'll shoot you a PM when I get back from the track this weekend regarding the harness roll bar. It all depends on if my wife prefers to track the GT3 with me or would prefer her CAB. As for seats, there are several options out there that will work other than the GT3 seats. Sparco, Recaro, etc., all make a great line of seats. I inquired about them as well and at the end of the day for not to much more money I was able to get a set of GT3 seats. Don't forget with the "other" seats you will need to buy all the req'd hardware to install them, brackets, sliders, etc. Keep an eye out for a Monday post regarding my seats. (jason) I'll still post the roll bar for sale but give you first crack at it.

To add to Dell's point about seats: the reason why a lot of us use GT3 seats instead of another brand is that they are pretty much "plug and play". In the 996, the space between the transmission tunnel and the sill is fairly narrow, so it can be difficult to find a seat that will fit low enough. If you do a search, you can see the problems that bnewport had with alternate brand seats. I spent some time with Advanced Motorsport last year measuring up Recaros, and we couldn't find an easy solution, so I got a pair of GT3 seats on ebay instead. [Prepares for flaming] If you're looking to save a few dollars to fund the seats, there are plenty of cheaper but still legitimate suppliers for things like helmets and harnesses (I use G-Force) [/Prepares for flaming]

Great follow-on Simon. That is one of the main reasons I bought them. I would rather spend a bit more and have EASE of installation rather than TRY to fit an alternate solution in. It literally takes me 10 minutes per side to remove the comfort seats in my wife's cab and replace with the GT3. 4 bolts out, 4 bolts back in.....and the seat belt receiver.

Just to add to everything Dell said, since the stock seats doesn't have any openings for shoulder belt, the only thing keeping them from sliding down are your shoulders. The belts are not there to create a pressure on your body but to hold you tight. If you go with recaro pole positions in cloth/velour (not expensive seat), by the time you'll be done with hardware, sliders, side mounts and belt hardware, you'll be equal has getting a decent set of used GT3. Getting seats in and out of cars is only fun the first couple of times, once you'll scratch the car with seat slider while getting it in or out, you'll find this irritating. Good luck and if Dell's wife decides to requisition the GT3 after this week-end, I say bite the bullet and go for it.

Makes sense to me. The benefit I'd get in buying a set of aftermarket seats vs. GT3s is that I could use them in my S4 with different sliders and then put them in the 996 for events as well (my S4 doesn't have aftermarket seats either) - sort of serves a dual purpose. anyway, Dell - let me know for sure re: the roll bar. Hopefully your wife will like the GT3 - tough decisions you guys have

This is why I like them so much for my wife's car. VERY easy to install/uninstall since she doesn't like the GT3 for daily driving. Personally I love them for both track AND daily driving. My GT3 runs the GT3 harness seats 24/7

Sounds good dell. Hope your wife makes the right decision, for me at least.

Sure thing. I'll PM you on Monday morning. By the way, I am VERY lucky to have a wife that loves to do the DE thing as much (well, almost) as I do

good one

I'll throw in my 2 cents. First, I just put Sparco Evos in my Boxster and that was pretty much plug and play by using the Brey Kraus hardware. I'm considering getting a second set of mounts for switching those seats into my S4 (B5 avant). I haven't investigated it, but startupracing seems to have some sort of easy setup for switching Sparcos into a B5 S4. (I don't know if you have a B5 or not, but "highly modified" makes me think it is a B5.) If it were me, I'd go the Sparco route with BK hardware. Second, BK makes an adapter for mounting the sub strap to the seat rails. The club I run the Boxster with (Porsche Owners Club) doesn't allow that, but I doubt Audi Club will give you a problem with it. I don't have an opinion on the safety of such a set up, but am sure others do. Finally, keep driving the S4 like you stole it. Mine hasn't let me down at a DE (yet).

egress91506 - lol - yep, it's a B5 (stage III, big brakes, etc...). I bought the S4 new 6+yrs ago and have put 145,000miles on it. I love the car (and I usually keep cars for a year or two) - this one's a keeper for sure. I missed the last day of a DE last year because my S4 shattered an exhaust manifold (doubled walled) and one of my KO4s ate a piece of metal manifold. I really wanted to bring the 996 out for the last day but couldn't because it didn't have a roll bar. This year, I'd like to be prepared. Thanks for the input re: the Sparcos - I'll look into that.

One last thing to add. I went vintage racing last weekend and we had 2 cars upside down that a full cage saved the guys lives! I personally would never set one tire on a track with only a roll bar. Draw a line from the bar to the front of the car and figure out if your head might be in the way. Most times the answer is yes. Then you say, oh no this is just a DE and this could never happen. Well, in the Maverick region a year or so ago a guy flipped a 996 and by luck walked away...during a DE. I have been racing in our vintage club for 5 years and this was the worst weekend ever. It can happen and does more than you think. I am a saftey nut and wear a HANS and use a RaceTech HANS seat so take my advice as you want.

Steven - the ACNA (Audi Club North America) requires the roll bar pass the broomstick test (with 2" of clearance) or else the car doesn't go out on the track.

I installed gt3 seats, schroth 5pt harness, and a brey kraus harness bar in my 996. As I understand it, the main reason to have seats with the proper openings for the shoulder, lap and sub belts is to make sure that they are properly aligned with your body. Under severe deceleration, misaligned belts (for example a shoulder belt which doesn't come straight back over your shoulder, or a lap belt that rides up over your stomach) can apply tremendous force to your body in all the wrong ways, including spine compression and damage to internal organs. There's not much point in having the harness for looks if it can't do the job it was designed for.

I didn't think K04s ever exploded! I'm still on my original K03s (73K miles, I'm the original owner), but am Stage II (along with Stoptechs and suspension upgrades). Very fun car.

KO4s don't explode! (Except for when a double walled exhaust manifold fails, sending metal through the turbo).... Don't ever drive a KO4-ed S4, your check book will not thank you

Dell, How'd your DE go? Mine was great. The x74 made such a huge difference. My instructor had a 996 coupe with the GT3 seats and fivepoints. Boy did that help as well. Any updates on whether you'll be parting with your GT3 seats? Thanks.

I did and before I even made the decision, Jason decided he would bite the bullet and buy everything and made me an offer on the entire setup (seats, rollbar, harnesses, mounting parts, sub strap bars, etc.) and do it right the first time since he found somebody to fabricate an adaptive slider that will allow swithcing between the P-Car and Audi. It's much easier to just ship the entire lot to him instead of having to disassemble the harnesses from the rollbar and take the seats apart to get the sub straps and mount bars removed. I'll keep an eye out and if I hear of another set of seats I'll definitely PM you.

Doh! Understood. Let me know if you hear anything.

Sorry 996 convert - and thanks Dell! The best part about it all is that Dell says he will deliver the stuff personally AND install it! What a guy OK, maybe not but I'm still excited.

Definitely will. I spend most of my time on the GT3 board which is where I hear most of the seat for sale posts so I will shoot you a PM if a set comes up.