HOW STRONG IS THE C4 DRIVETRAIN??

I am curious to know iwho has broken a c4 drivetrain and how. Will they handle redline launches? Will they handle drasticall increased power? Anyone know the limits??

The TTs driveline seems to handle huge power (I believe it is the same as a C4 but I could be wrong), jump on that froum and search driveline mods. There is plenty of 10second TTs on there drag racing the snot out of their cars. Plenty of people are going to tell you that a Porsche was not designed for that, just giving you a heads up.

Yes, the driveline will handle it, the clutch will not...you will probably burn out clutches with just a few redline launches. Again, if you wanna do that, its the wrong car to do it in.

I am trying to decide on a 996 to look for. Obviously the car will handle well, but I gotta at least get 11's out of it at the drags or I will get embarressed off every stop light around here.

Wrong car.....The weak link in the 996 and almost all Porsche's is the off the light performance....but despite that you will get 0-60 times in the hogh 4's and low 5's....but a drag car this is not....get an M3. You will be better off if you are looking for a stoplight racer.

Why is the weak link off the line performance?? Does it just need more power??

Its designed that way....Its designed to be a great car where they want it to be, and stoplight to stoplight isnt what a Porsche is about. I wonder how many of those off the line cars will do 175+ mph? Or handle the canyons as well....if you want off the line fast, get a vette or something...it has PLENTY of HP...and more of it would not be a big help.

supercharge it and get some drag radials . I have seen people break axles but not very often (and always on street tires, wheel hop is a killer) the drive train will hold it, get a performance clutch youll be ok, Thing may break, any car running 11s has the potential for massive breakage

I am not saying it again, get a TURBO if you want to hop it up or you will be disappointed!

On an AWD car the weak link will be the clutch on a high RPM launch since the tires won't slip unless they are worn. For that reason I'd rarely if ever attempt a high RPM launch on any AWD car.

Hey Nitro, if it is a drag racer you want, there is a guy selling his 800+ HP Chevelle on this Forum....... oh wait...... that's your car! Never mind! As others have said, you may be looking at the wrong car it all you want is off the light 1/4 mile speed.

Nitro, why do yo want a Porsche anyway? Maybe I understand. My tastes are all over the place as by choice, my daily driver is a lifted '99 Cherokee. Simple, light, bomber. My wife drives a Lexus Hybrid SUV and a Boxster which she perfers over my 996 Cab. I've always had a Harley and a GSXR, or Honda something since the '70s. Your project could cost more than a Trophy Home. If you are serious, start with a GT2, or if you can do without AWD a GT3. Hey, maybe you could find a retired GT2 racer and make it street legal. My best advice is to buy an inexpensive high miler '99 996 for around $30k or less and get your feet wet in the Porsche world. Your future plans could drastically change.

I agree with firehawk. With enough power you can easily get into the 11's. The rear engine configuration is actually an advantage in a drag race. However, beware of wheel hop and the stock clutch.

After you supercharge, you are dead in the water with making more substantial gains, that is why I say go TT.

I actually already have a set of twin turbos for the car. I just need a car now!! I don't want a drag car, My Chevelle is not a drag car, but anything I own better be DAMN fast or why drive it. Those who have put the pedal to the medal with 1000 hp know what I am talking about. It is over the top, unusable crazy, insane, adrenaline pumping craziness!! But I LOVE it. I want the porsche for something different. I have spent alot of time to make the Chevelle handle like a good track car, I figure if I started with a porsche I would be able to take the handling even farther. Realistically, if I do not get what I want from my chevelle money wise, I will just keep it. It is pretty fun having the capability to spin the 12" GSCS racing tires at 140+ mph if I want to!! Plan is to find most likely an early model C2 or C4, bring it home and yank the motor. From there I am going to swap out the rods and pistons and mount some turbos on it, For 5-6 grand or so I will have a bullet proof twin turbo setup. I realize I will never have the performance and power of my Chevelle, but I would still be happy with 500+ RWHP on the Porsche. To be honest my biggest fear with the Porsche is I will be dissapointed. I have not driven one yet, But from what I hear, they handle better then anything. Are there any cars in the league that handle better?? I am just getting bored... We'll see, I am still researching.

GT2's are RWD, not AWD.

If the front end can handle abuse, I would like the AWD. My twin turbo Audi A6 is too much fun bringing the boost up off the line and launching like a bat out of hell, so far that has held up fine, but the car does not have much power either.

You gotta do more research...you CANNOT just yank the motor on a 996 normally aspirated car and throw some Turbos on it and have a "bulletproof" 500hp setup for 5 grand....thats absolutely ridiculous. First of all the 996 motor and the TT motor are COMPLETELY different motors. The 996 motor is NOT designed for forced induction. Its got too high a compression ratio....also internal parts are not readily available because Porsche does not sell them....some companies are just now starting to sell them, but again, upgrades are not readily available, and when they are they are quite expensive. There is a reason people are selling 3.8L upgrades for $23k....putting out 380 HP....its not that easy to get high HP out of a normally aspirated 996. Get a TT if you want that....a chip and turbo upgrades can get you 5-600HP.

The Porsche AWD system and the Audi do not work in the same way....you will be very dissapointed if you expect it to jump off the line like a rocket.

Porsche has been selling replacement parts for all M96 engines since almost the beginning of production. Only the transmission parts have been scarce up until about last summer.

I don't think I agree with the assessment that 911's aren't good drag cars, esp when compared to an M3, The rear weight bias and wider rear tires give the car increased grip, which results in more power to the road. The 911 is also lighter.

Huh?????? A Porsche as a drag car? Have to agree it is a drivers car not a drag car. Take your very nice Chevy up on the Autobahn maybe a curvy one like A62 and you will kill yourself at 160MPH, but not in the Porsche. If you want a drag car save your money and stick with what you have and enjoy the 16 year old kids at Sonic.

Why not go with a Corvette? It's got good handling (different from a Porsche but still good), room for a zoomin' V8, rear wheel drive, and good looks.

Tons. Get a Lotus Elise if you want handling. But realistically, what everyone is trying to tell you is that you belong in a Vette.

The base engine of a 996 NA is a completely different platform or design from the TT, GT2, or GT3. It was designed to be built at a lower cost than the air cooled motors that preceded it. The way in which is holds the crank, the wet sump, and other too numerous to mention items are totally different from the other 3 models. Their engines are based upon the racing GT1 architecture. If it's higher power or performance you want, get a TT. They can be had for $50-60K. Add $10K of mods, and you'll have plenty of power. In summary, there isn't much margin left in the 996 NA engine. The TT has lots of upward potential. Good luck with what ever you buy, but buy smart. Cheers,

Newport means stronger parts like rods and pistons that handle big power, not the facory ones. The TT has just about anything you need for beefing up the low end.

M3 is geared differently and designed to be quicker off the line. The 911 is by design to have a weak clutch at takeoffs, which is why you can burn one out in a weekend if doing burnouts. The reason is to not damage the engine or transmission, they would rather you damage the clutch and replace it. The 911 is geared for top end performance, not low end. Just the facts on the car, now after 30 mph, the 911 is faster than most other cars with the same HP...which is why they are deceptive.

I just don't get it. The guy is looking for advice an many are knocking his ideas at every turn. He seems to know his way around an engine and enjoy modding cars so why not? I agree that the TT motor would be a better starting point, but M96's have been made to work with boost by others so it can certainly be done. There are many ways he could effectively lower the compression ratio and the internals while not up to TT specs are far from weak. As far as the "if you want handling, buy an Elise" comment........what are you thinking??? The 996 has fantastic handling. It will run circles around 99.9% of the cars on the road and it will clean the Elise's clock on all but the tightest race tracks.

Lets be realistic....if you want to perform surgery, dont use a steak knife. Use the right tool for the job. He said he wants a "bulletproof" 500WHP motor, and a car to beat people at stoplights. NEITHER is a NA 996. How many NA 996's have EVER gone to 500HP? NONE....so why not inform him that: A: He WILL NOT get 500HP out of that motor at the crank and definitely not at the wheels. B: The car is not designed to have breakneck speeds from a dead stop. He mentioned the Audi AWD system which is probably the BEST dead stop car out there as you can launch that car and not burn clutches and or break other components. C: The 996 is a drivers car with great HP and great handling and appreciate it for that. D: If he wants 500+ HP, he needs a TT as the platform. I dont care how much he knows his way around a motor, you cant get the 500HP from a M96 engine.... I guess what we are telling him is that as Porsche owners, we usually are not racing EVO's and WRX's from stoplight to stoplight. Bottom line is he wants the prestige of owning a Porsche, but wants to street race it. Its not a street racer....He could save alot of money and get a 944 turbo and then he can get hos 500HP, and still have a Porsche and save about 20K....But a 996 is not a drag car and not a street racer, it was designed to go fast, turn fast, and stop fast...not just go VERY fast in a straight line. I think all the responses have been actually very nice and I personally think he's a troll, or a 12 year kid with nothing better to do....but no one yet has called him that.....I say that everyone is being quite civil.

I love it when people say something "can't" be done......especially when those people have never even tried to do that "something". Consider for a moment how you react when people say you "can't" put 19's on a car, or you "can't" make a TT rear bumper fit. Trust me Newport if tuners can get over 1000 hp out of the 996 TT motor they can get 500 hp out of the M96 if they really wanted to. Here are some M96's making close to 500hp already. The TPC supercharged 3.4 makes 434hp. The Evo/VF SC kit for the 3.6 makes 475 hp http://www.ndimports.com/01_por/00_shop/shop.asp Here's 450 hp from a 3.2 Boxster M96 (not the GT1 block) http://auto-specs.zercustoms.com/g/g...fications.html http://www.supercars.net/cars/1631.html My point is as follows; Stock clutches can be replaced with higher performance varients. Stock internals can be upgraded. With enough time, money, and perserverance I really don't see why it could not be done (especially considering that Gemballa has already made 450hp out of a twin turbo 986 3.2 with the same block). I'd agree (and I already stated) that the M96/76 (GT1 block) is a better starting point and as a result that is where most tuners turn to make the huge power However, I think it's pretty silly to make a blanket statement that there is "no way" to get 500hp from an M96/01, 02, or 03.

OK Ray, so maybe my post should have been, it'll cost you more than 5k to get 500 wheel HP reliably, like the poster said he was going to do. NONE of your examples are less than 10k, if not more like 20k+...this is why people put the extra 20k into a TT and then mod it. Nowadays a TT is only about 10k more than a comparable 996 of the same year....but again, I wish him the best of luck...

475 at the crank is about 130-150 hp short of 500 to the wheel. IT could be done, but its really not practacal to do with a m96 engine. If i had the time (and a 996) id probaly play around to see how much it would hold, but I really thing there are to many defienceys in the engine design to support 600 fwhp reliably especialy with forced induction. Im all for trying it...................... best of luck to you and let me know how it comes out

O.k. mister smarty pants... What breaks in a motor at this level??? I know as much as anyone about a forced induction motor in general. After all, not only do I build them from scratch, I tune them as well. Sucks to ask some questions on a forum and then have to come on and defend yourself. I do not hear of blocks breaking, so with that said, a simple piston/rod swap would eliminate the breakable parts in the motor. As long as blocks are not splitting and heads are not lifting, you can make as much power as you want, 500, 600, 700 etc. Boost makes up for any bottlenecks in the engine tat normally limit power. Also, if you understand how a dry sump works, you will know it has no effect whatsoever on engine power capacity. It is simply a different kind of oil pump best suited to cars that see tracks use because you do not have to worry about sucking air in oil slosh situations. What is with the troll comment?? I am on hear researching, which is something it sounds like you need to do more of yourself. Thanks to all for the info!

theres no simple rod and piston swap for these cars i dont know of any aftermarket suppliers for either. I would also suspet the crank would fail at those power levels but have never been there so Im only guessing i have seen broken cranks on stock m96 motors . The block aligment has been questionalbe from the start onthe m96 (im not speaking either way on this) and the streo has the sngh of the cylinders them selves( staying quiet on that too) . The heads lifting is also a definate posibiltiy as we do see headgasket failures on stock na cars, head gaskets.......... I dont think your going to find any aftermarket for this either so plan on o ringing the block. and then theres the stress on the valve train, finding valve springs that will close under the added pressure and the additional stress on timing chains and the intermedate shaft. really you would be far better ahead to start with a turbo/gt car or start with a 996 and use an air cooled motor

First off, my posts are not meant to make you defend yourself....what I PERSONALLY think is my opinion, and why should you care what I think personally? But anyway, thats what I said, 'I Think...." and if you are not, my apologies for thinking you were....as for my info...its based on my knowledge and research I have done on M96 engines. I am on my 2nd M96 engined car and I looked into what was available and why there were not more options. The first thing I said was, I have a Boxster, can't I just bolt on a few turbos and bump it up a few hundred HP? Then I realized the answer was yes, if you wanna spend $20K+, and there is no long term reliability tests because so few have done it. Then there was the supercharger question and yes its done alot more often, and there are some with good results and some with bad results....for me, it wasnt for me. I dont pretend to know the aprticulars of engine building as the last time I did any motor work was on a 1976 BMW 2002 and those were soooo simple to work on....Also dont you have to modify the ECU with all that HP? and get the air/fuel ratio correct? if not can't it blow? Also will the sock injectors deliver enough fuel? Will you need larger injectors? How will you deal with the extra heat made by the Turbos? and where will you put the intakes for them? The TT has them in the rear fenders...I guess you could get something made for the rear wing, or decklid...but we are still dealing with cooling issues of 2 hot Turbos in the cramped engine compartment. There are not many aftermarket internal parts available for this engine so maybe you would have to have custom pistons and rods made? Those are just a few of the issues I know of that come to mind when trying to add that much HP to a NA engine.....maybe others will have solutions to those issues...maybe some are simple, maybe some are not, not sure....

Turbos create heat but the heat is very controllable. Minor heat shielding will solve any potential heat problems you might have. Injectors woul have to be changed along with the factory fuel pump, simple aftermarket units will solve that problem. Headers can be made from some 321 stainles for about $900 bucks. I do not know what is available for tuning yet, does someone sell software so you can tune yourself? Well see what happens, Ideally it would be nice to find a C4 with a blown motor. I would just buy a turbo motor and throw that in, that's another option. No way in hell I would pay the outrageous cost for a twin turbo car fronm the start. Used high mileage cars go for $60k+ So you guys do see cranks and blocks breaking? What happened?

why the c4 fixation? c2 with some 315 drag radials should do the trick. are you shooting for the hp goal or the et goal ?

you can get high milage turbos in the mid-low 50s now na car + built engine is goin to be way more then that

I want the C4 because I really like the launch capability of my A6 and a tiptronic C4 with turbos would screem! I hope. I may just toss a whole TT motor in a C4... Depends what I decide on in the end, and what I actually find. I don't know, I will have to see. I can TT the C4 for about $7k with billet rods and forged pistons, I just have to find out more on the blocks and cranks though. Like I said before If my TT Chevelle does not go for what I want I will keep that and spank on some Porsches at the track until I can save to buy a Porsche outright. My other issue is that the wife is driving me nut, says I should buy an M5 instead for the "family". That does not impress me at all.

A C4 Tip? OK...I am not so sure it can handle 500hp launches. You may need to see what the C4 Tip can handle and if its the same tip as the TT...I dont think so, I think th eTT uses the Tiptronic S transmission and the C2/C4 use the standard Tiptronic. Good luck, but I think you are taking on alot and have unrealistic expectations of what you will end up with....but again, Good Luck and keep us informed.

The trans are different? Dang! Oh well, I just hate sticks in turbo cars, they suck. Anyone want my car?? If you buy it I promise to build a modded to hell 996! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...QQcmdZViewItem

I honestly dont think you could spank any Porsches from the 996 variants with a 12-bolt rear end, plus a '71 Chevelle weighs nearly 4000lbs. Straight axles are too sketchy on curves. On the tiptronic situation, get a tip out of a 997TT, it is probably stronger than the C4, but I dont know just something to look into. The TTs are built strong on the low end, I think the vendors do not change out internals until about 650-750 hp. The blocks are indestructible, the rods and pistons are not from what I have read. You need to jump on the 996TT forum and get a feel for what can be done. Rods and pistons swaps on a 996 M96 motor will have to be custom made, maybe someone like Carillo (make Porsche rods already), JE (not to favored by the Porsche crowd), Mahle (makes Porsche pistons). Being a Chevy guy, you should know about Eagle rods, Scat, and Trick flow, maybe they could make some custom rods for the 996.

The Chevelle weighs 3600 right now. I wish I had a chance to track it with the new suspension, looks like I will never know. I will have to look into the trans thing.