HELP! Type 2 Over Revs Make Me Very Leery About My Dream 996tt

I was ready to pull the trigger on this car and go pick it up tomorrow. It's a 2003 with only 9700 miles. http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national The appointment had been set and it was essentially a done deal, pending a diagnostic check at a local Porsche dealership to pull the codes from the ECU to see if it had ever been moneyshifted. The results were quite unsettling.... Type 1 - 7830 Type 2 - 364 The tech who did the diagnostic inspection at the local dealership was telling me that it was no big deal. I called a couple local ones, however, that seemed to think it was rather significant. One, in particular, I called and spoke to the service manager. He seemed to think it was alright and I should go ahead with the purchase, but then he decided to put me on hold and speak with one of his techs/mechanics who was more familiar with the over rev codes. When he came back, he essentially said "I'm glad I went to ask my tech, because he seems to think it's a very high number and you're taking a big risk." That did not sit well with me at all. *sigh* I guess I'm no longer interested. So disappointing. I'm planning on modifying this quite heavily, so I must have a rock solid foundation from which to start. I moneyshifted a car of mine back in the day at the dragstrip, with no immediate resultant problems. About a year later, however, the engine had an absolutely catastrophic failure. I can only assume that it was caused, for the most part, by the moneyshift, as a rod bent and subsequently exploded almost the entire bottom end. What do you all think?

from what I head type 2 are fine, no guys ? I think there are type 3 and 4 and 5 and only 4 and 5 are real over-rev...but I might be mistaken. wait for confirmation or ..make a search

Quotes source post: 8306107

No no, that's on a 997. On a 996, it's just type 1 (hitting the rev limiter) or type 2 (moneyshift).

364 type-2 ignitions would not be a big deal for me. There are 3 ignitions per crankshaft revolution. The Turbo has a 6600rpm redline, which equates to 110 revolutions/second or 330 ignitions/second. It sounds like this car has been past redline for about a second. And you don't know what rev range past redline since type-2 is any number over redline. So it could have simply been that the ECU could not keep up w/ the laws of physics when the engine bounced off the rev limiter. FWIW, upgraded ECU flashes will increase the rev limiter to 7k rpm. Anyway, if you don't have warm fuzzies regardless of forum opinion, then just pass on it. Best to own an auto that you feel 100% confident and happy w/ then to have this linger over you. Michael.

Did they give you the total hours on the car and the hour when the overrev's happened? If they happened years ago, I would feel better about it. If they just happened, you may have some damage that hasn't popped up yet. Good luck!

FYI Chipped/ECU Tuned Cars its counts as a "Over Rev" eveytime you go over the Factory Limit rev limit... ECU Tune is usually 200-400 RPM more than Factory... im preety sure thats where Michael-Dallas is going aswell

thats a nice turbo... however, at that price you should buy something that you will be happy with... without a nagging thought thats gonna eat at you. Thats prime $$$ for a turbo.

What are the total hours? What hour did the Type 2 take place? With that said, those type 2's are nothing. I'd be concerned if there was 3640 not 364.

That would be a non-issue for me. That number is insignificant.

Talk with one of the head techs at a large P dealer and ask his thoughts, also ask at what point, # of and type revs, would exclude attaining CPO status. You may ask at P car race shop as well as they build motors and work with altered DME/CPUs.

Quotes source post: 8306135

The Ecu can keep up just fine or the engine would not run at higher rpms. The Ecu is responsible for determining when and for how long it opens the injector for each cylinder and when to trigger the spark. It also performs real time measurements/calculations looking for misfires. Porsche for these cars only has two ranges. Rev limiter hit and over rev limiter. Chances are if the overrevs did any damage the car would exhibit some symptoms from this unless the overrevs maybe happened on a test drive the day before the overrevs were read out. It would be nice to know what the run time was at the time of the overrevs to know how long ago (or not) they occurred. Still, I'd be leery of the car that had any range 2 overrevs. There's a reason Porsche deemed them important enough to record them. Sincerely, Macster.

So... can a range 2 event be recorded for anything but an overrev on a downshift? It would seem that any acceleration related event would be cut off by the rev limiter.

Yes. A type two can be recorded (that I know of to date) two ways as well other than a downshift (mechanical over-rev). #1 is when the car has been tuned and the tuner built a higher rev limiter into the flash program. #2 an anomaly where a type 2 (extremely low number) is recorded but no such event took place. Just a glitch and usually in the <100 range.

Quotes source post: 8308533

Taken from the another forum : The thread is old, but john rice appears to be in your area (norcal). Perhaps you should take him up on his bet if he still owns a 996 Turbo? And there's a reason why the 997/987 and above have more than 2 types of ignition ranges. Michael.

So how many type 2's are too many? From the statements above I understand a mapped car can gather them more easily, but at what point do you say, "sorry the cars not for me"? What is the consequence of too many type 2's?

From my understanding, you should be able to get two numbers for each type. How many ignitions past redline and how long since the last time it happened (in op hours). For my 04 C4S Ign 1 3920/2570 Ign 2 3/2024 Total op hour count: 2576 According to Durametric, that means my type one ignitions (hitting the rev limiter) happened mostly when the car was new....sounds like someone was learned to drive a manual xD In the first 6 hours of driving the car they bounced off the rev limiter (roughly) 10 times. As for the type 2 ignitions...I think 3 is a nice, low number...regardless how long ago it happened =D

You have the interpretation of the hours backwards. The DME printout will list the running hour of the last occurrence. So your last Type1 occurred 6 hours ago, not 2570.

That's impossible. I had owned the car for 2 weeks when I pulled these numbers. Drove it across the country in fact. I never hit the limiter nor missed a shift....

Not impossible. That's how the system is setup. It records Type 1 and 2 over-revs as they happen. The hour stamped on the DME reports indicated the time stamp of the last instance. The 3 recorded for type 2 is more than likely a circuit anomaly so don't worry about it. The Type 1's are really nothing other than hitting the rev limiter which is there to protect the car anyway. And Type 2's are not just missed shifts. They can also be rev-match over revs during a proper shift with the clutch disengaged at an RPM higher than redline. Again, 3 is nothing and if it even did take place (which is virtually impossible as it is a millisecond). If you give me a second I could get you the actual amount of time it represents. **edit...calculation is .009 seconds**

Quotes source post: 8320157

The information in the thread from the "other" forum is not correct. I have gathered from PIWIS /Vehicle Analysis Logs data for most 996/997s to evaluate overspeed events here: https://rennlist.com/forums/8801553-post60.html As for your second question, the answer is simple. They implemented the rev range categories in the newer DMEs in order to "properly" accept or deny warranty claims and .. to make their life easier accepting cars for their CPO program..

EDIT: I see that I haven't included the information for the 996C2/C4 there so I will post it now here and update my older post that contains all of them. There is a newer TI for the VAL: Technical Information Service 06/09 EN 0335 Apr 9, 2009 Vehicle Analysis Log: Evaluating overspeed events (Boxster 986/Carrera 996) (6/09) Model year: as of 1997 up to 2004 Vehicle Type: Boxster (986)/Boxster S (986) 911 Carrera (996)/911 Carrera 4 (996) Model year 1997 to 2004 Rev ranges - 986 + 996: Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL: Rev range 1: 7,200 -1 ... to 7,900 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible. Rev range 2: over 7,900 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage probable. Information Before starting engine repairs and submitting a warranty claim or granting a pre-owned car warranty: In the event of overspeed events in range 2, we recommend that you contact the Technical Hotline before starting repairs or granting a pre-owned car warranty in order to find out how to proceed and agree on warranty entitlements. References: → “After Sales News 11/2007” and “Porsche Aktuell”: PIWIS Tester: Function for returning Vehicle Analysis Logs (VALs)

Quotes source post: 8988287

The type 2 number doesn't bother me because it happened before I bought it...but the type 1 number would indication I bounced off the rev limiter 6 hours ago. I pulled these numbers right after driving across Canada....for 2 days....using cruise control. The time indicated, as you describe it, would be squarely on a long, straight and empty piece of road. The last 4 hour leg up to my town. I know for a fact I didn't hit the limiter. It was roughly 4 in the morning...I didn't even have to pass anything. It was the most boring part of the trip actually. I think you've got it backwards...

I'm not going to argue with you. Call the dealer and verify. That's where I got my info from. p.s. check out this video from the Durametric website to help you understand it. LINK DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE VIDEO: "...and second, the total number of operating hours of the car the last time the engine entered that range" Unsubscribing.