996 Colonoscopy after IMS failure...

Tucson Porsche has had my 2003 C4 for a week now following IMS failure with 11,400 miles on the clock. Last week the service advisor indicated they were starting the process to replace the engine on my CPO warrantied car. Yesterday, the service advisor called and said Porshe wanted them to use a camera scope to examine the inside of the engine - cylinders - to see if Porsche direction would be to repair or replace engine. I'm unsure why, this makes me uncomfortable and feels like a high school lab experiment. And I am getting irritated that after 1 week, this is as far as we've gotten. I was settled on having my car back in another week with a reman engine, but seems like its not that simple. Have any of you heard of this diagnostic before regarding IMS failure? Any recommendations on next steps I should take wrt to Porche / service advisor in terms of direction?

Hopefully he has small hands. Have you ever been to a Turkish prison? Seriously though, you can talk to the manager about the slow turnaround time to try and speed things up. Kent

I'm sorry for your trouble, and I hope it works out for you quickly. But, selfishly, I have to say I would be pleased if they started repairing these engines. Because it would mean the beginning of an aftermarket in M96 guts, as there is for older Porsche engines. That would not be a bad thing at all.

The reman engines have the latest updates and would be much better. Your dealer most likely has never rebuilt a 996 engine. Perhaps Porsche has seen that on inspection the damage trends to less and have been replacing more motors than they need to. I would real push the dealer for their help in getting a reman. You are the dealer's customer. The Porcshe regional rep's job is to do the least. I had a reman due to RMS and it was a great motor.

My engine went through thorough testing by PCNA before they determined they would replace the engine under warranty at their cost. This is not unusual. They had my car for about a month through all of this. They gave me a car to drive, and made a few other concessions that were wirth my while when my car was away. I wish you the best, and I can tell you when you get the car back with the new motor you will be astonished at how much better the car will run and perform. Good times are ahead just be patient.

thanks for sharing, blk on blk. I'll be traveling abroad a week from now through mid-may, so that helps time go by while they work on my car.

PMNA had my dealer inspect my engine when the IMS bearing failed. Inspection was accomplished by tearing it down, not by scoping it. The engine (M96/03S, i.e. X51) was shot inside, so PMNA replaced it. Here was sequence of events: - Without warning, engine simply shut off when I was pulling into a parking space. When I restarted it, it sounded like a bucket of bolts being shaken, so I immediately turned it off. No oil was on the ground, so I had it towed to the dealer. - At the dealer, I started it in the presence of the assistant service manager (at his request) and let it run for about 2 seconds before turning it off. Lots of noise, but still no oil. I then took a loaner car and left. - The service manager told me later that the mechanic started the car with several people present and ran the engine for 4 seconds in "bucket of bolts" mode. They heard a loud thunk, the engine shut off instantly, and oil began flowing from the IMS/RMS area. - PMNA instructed the dealer to tear the engine down to diagnose the extent of the damage. It took several days to do the teardown, get PMNA the info, order the replacement engine, and return the damaged engine. The dealer told me that PMNA also covered the dealer cost for engine teardown. - Total time to retrieve the car with replacement engine was 2 weeks. Overall, I'm satisfied with the dealer's work and Porsche's response.

mine was great as well. Since it was the RMS leak the dealer ordered the motor. The had my car for two days and I was back on the road with a new(rebuilt) motor.

Once again though, another garage queen bites the dust. 11K miles on a 2003. Higher mileage is no guarantee of living forever, but it certainly does seem the less a car is driven the more likely it is to experience problems.

This isn't an uncommon practice at all... these days its getting to be the norm. PCNA wants dealers repairing engines which have had IMS failures and the only instance which will allow dealers to install a reman engine is if there is damage to the case halfs. In my experience, I would say about 75% or more of engines are rebuildable and show now damage to the case when inspected. When the dealer rebuilds the engine they will use the new shaft/bearing/bearing cover.

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So what is the cost difference between the dealer rebuild vs. a Porsche reman?

sorry new to this p forum,was the ims failure only happen to 996 and not 997?but why so many ims failure at so little mileage?i luv the 996 the way it look over the 997,but if this ims problem only happen to 996,then i might be looking into the 997 in the future,sorry not trying to hijack your thread jsmirand,and sorry to hear about your ims failure at such low mileage,but at less your are under waranty still,you'll be having a stronger motor at the end,

Buy what you want make sure it is CPOed and drive it. If the IMS fails drive it until it grinds up the bits and get a rebuild on PCNA

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The cost difference between a 996 and a 997 is very likely much more than the cost of a new engine, worse yet when you add in the depreciation you're going to eat on the 997. I think that the 997 is a lovely car, but if the only reason you're buying one is to avoid an engine failure, I think that's false economy to the nth degree.

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Nothing to you but time. I would rather have a reman that was put together by a guy in Germany that does it every day. Ask your local dealer who many 996 motors they have rebuilt in the last 12 months.

Send PCNA this picture, and you will get a replacement engine....

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lol

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peace of mind wise, most def i'd want a reman engine fresh outta porsche stuttgart than some service tech at a local dealer no matter how competent he/she may be. you cannot replicate the effort from factory in the service bay in podunk, usa.

also what about warranty issues...will the dealer warrant the engine the same way??

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ago and spotted Carrera on lift with engine removed. Spotted various engine casting hanging around and then carts with Carrera engine internals laid out. Short version is engine suffered IMS bearing failure. New info -- at that time -- is new engine was not slam dunk. Porsche changed its practice. Dealer tore down engine and disassembled engine -- not completely -- to determine if engine likely rebuild candidate. If engine metal bits in high pressure pump, on bearing side of filter, if in scavenge pumps then no. Also, an obviously broken engine casting might also be grounds for scraping engine. If engine passed these checks then engine completely disassembled, cleaned, and all necessary parts replaced. In this engine's case, new intermediate shaft and one maybe two chain guides (which were broken) were all that were required. (I have picture and can possibly supply links. Haven't tried this but you can: Visit www.tinypics.com and search for M96 or M96 engine tags. Can't remember if I stored pics there with those tags or not.) Sincerely, Macster.

Quote: "you cannot replicate the effort from factory in the service bay in podunk, usa." Any idea of the capital investment and ongoing overheads for a Porsche (or any) dealership? Porsche AG. controls what happens to the repair of the engine. Under warranty, they make the decision. Bearing in mind the resposibility that the dealer accepts when rebuilding the engine, under factory or extended warranty, the statement about service bays in podunk, USA isn't very relevant.

GMS, that's all great for you... but if this was your car... youre telling me you wouldn't pull for a reman engine from porsche? you'd rather have the work of local service guys led by PCNA doing the rebuild of your nice sports car? it's completely relevant. if u ever decided to sell your M96, you would be more comfortable telling the potential buyer this was rebuilt at the local porsche dealership or would you be more comfy telling them it got a fully updated engine from porsche factory w/ 0 miles?

gary?

pls don't tell me gary is a porsche dealer employee

I would buy a replacement Porsche engine. However, with car under warranty, Porsche AG makes the choice whether to repair or replace. Same with all manufacturers.

I'm trying to take this in stride wrt to where Porsche AG takes this, and have been told that if its a rebuild, the master mechanic at my dealer has 30 years of Porsche experience and is very good with these cars. I don't suspect I have a high influence level with Porsche AG, although I indicated to the dealer that at this point, I would prefer a reman. However it gets sorted out, I'll still have 18 mos of warranty remaining, so I suspect if there are any weaknesses associated with a local motor rebuild (or a reman, for that matter), they will get exposed sooner rather then later. Ultimately though, I just want to enjoy cruising in my car again, top down, with the engine smoothly running and not get overly consumed on if a rebuild is slightly worse then a reman or vice versa.

I wouldn't worry about the "camera scope" internal inspection of the engine. I've been in aviation maintenance for 23 years and we do borescope engines all the time for 1200 hour inspection or for finding causes of low torque outputs on engines combustion section walls and stator vanes, sompressor blades, etc.. to find cracks, chips and bend parts. Damage limits are very small. If its marginal, we change either the module or the whole engine. Of course I'm talking about aircraft engines. Anyway, all I'm saying is the borsecope procedure is pretty simple. I wouldnt worry about it specially in a boxer(horizontally opposed) engine.

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i would ask porsche to get me a reman engine, i don't want a rebuild effort at the dealership.

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that's a healthy way of looking at it - at the end of the day, rebuild or reman, if the car drives and works and does all the right things it's supposed to do - you're fine. but we're on rennlist cuz we are passionate about our 911s.... to this end, reman is the way to go.

i am glad i dont have a 996...my boxsters had problems(rms--reman engine)...

not THE joey c are you??

Quote: "I would ask porsche to get me a reman engine, i don't want a rebuild effort at the dealership." If the vehicle is under Porsche warranty, the decision on repairs is made by Porsche NA. If it is a customer pay, that is a totally different matter.

Porsche NA authorized a new engine! I'm happy about this, a better outcome. According to the service rep, the new engine includes all the core accessories such as starter, water pump, etc. The bad news - it will take another week and a half to obtain and install the engine. The good news is wife and I are off to Tahiti for our 10th anniversary on Tuesday so that won't matter.

great news. The same with mine. It is basically plug in and go.

I'm happy for you that it went your way! You'll have better peace of mind Just curious, anyone know how much a 3.6 "reman" engine is if you're just buying one (with core replacemement of course). TNX

today.... $12-14K is what i was told

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You're completely over estimating the complexity of these engines. Its lot of work to rebuild a 996 engine but its really faily simple. As for it being built in a service bay instead of the factory.... what do you think goes on over there? Pixie dust gets sprinkled on pile of engine parts and magically an engine appears? Last time I checked with Germany it was still righty tighty over there. Pretty much the only advantage of getting a reman engine over having it rebuilt by the dealer is you get new accessories, ie water pump, power steering pump and alternator. The fact of the matter is these things have nothing to do with IMS failures and by demanding you get a new engine you're demanding things get replaced that there is nothing wrong with. Why not demand they give you a whole new car?