The search begins!

At my recent wedding anniversary (7 years) my wife gave me a card including the lines �Let�s go buy that Porsche you always wanted!� Good news! I have been wanting a 911 since I was around 8 years old (I will be 40 this year). I had never driven one until yesterday because I didn�t want to tempt myself until I was ready. My problem is that (frankly) I love to drive and I take good mechanical care of my cars but I also use them every day and don�t spend a great deal of time worrying about keeping them spic and span. As such I don�t want a brand new car because I am going to lose a huge amount in depreciation. I am thinking, therefore, that a used (or should that be pre-owned around here?) 2002 C2 or C4 would probably be about what I am looking for. I went to the local dealer test drove 2 cars. A Porsche certified 2001 C2 cab. was the first out and I must admit that I was very disappointed. The performance didn�t feel any better than my MR2 spyder, it rattled, some of the warning lights would not go off (engine cover for example) and the brakes sucked! I was surprised and almost put the dream to bed there and then. Instead I asked to drive a 2003 C4S. Wow! This thing was fantastic � great power and pickup, good handling, a nice quality feel and superb brakes. Shame it was out of my price range or I would have had it on the spot. So, what am I missing? If the first one was certified and had been through the 125 point inspection (which it had) then why did it feel like crap? It had 35k on it � is that a lot? Anyway, enough of my rambling and down to some questions that I am hoping people can help me with: 1. Does my experience mean that I absolutely must drive a car before I buy? I am assuming yes but this probably means a lot of the deals available on the Internet are out of the question 2. Is the �certification� worth anything? 3. Are there other forums that have good information? 4. Is the power difference between the standard and the �S� significant? 5. Who is a good dealer to deal with that is within a couple of hours drive of New York city? 6. Anyone have any idea on how much insurance is going to cost in NJ? 7. Do I have to get it maintained at a Porsche dealer? 8. The factory options are outrageously expensive � I am assuming that there are no problems fitting non factory stuff. For example a CD player that is not a Porsche approved one. 9. What is your preference C2 or C4? 10. Is it true that the red ones attract the police? I certainly felt conspicuous today. 11. How will the new model (due next year I beleive) affect pricing of the 996 models? Thanks in advance! Barry P.S. This is a cross post from another forum so I hope most of you have not already seen it.

Barry-i have owned about 10 porsches over 20 years, and presently own a boxster (my wife), a 996tt, and a cayenne s. first of all, these are highly reliable cars that serve as daily drivers with little maintainance. if the used car that you drove performed poorly, then someone abused it. s models have the same horsepower as non s models of similar years. carrera 2 versus 4-i would make the decision purely on whether you wanted the car to have all weather capability, with the addition of m+s tires. the way the market is now, you might able to do very well with a left over 03 or 04 car. my advice would be to contact michael schwartz at schneider-nelson porsche in west long branch , nj, at [phone removed]-he is the gm and can best explain your options to better illustrate what you can get and how it drives. i have sent at least 20 of my friends to see this salesman/gm which gave excellent results-my advice is to give him a call-he is close by-he can get you to drive his cars . tell him that i sent you.

Barry, Wow, you sound exactly like me about 6 months ago! I purposely never test drove any Porsches because I'd end up wanting one. Here are my thoughts in line, and good luck -- I haven't regretted my purchase for a minute, except I shouldn't have waited so long... Yes, absolutely drive before you buy. Drive many -- the feel can be very different, depending on how the car was treated by the prior owner. You'll know it when you find the right one (this sounds corny, but it was completely true for me). It means the car has a Porsche extended warranty, which is worth a bit. You can't get the factory extended warranty except through a dealer-certified car. However, you pay a premium with the dealer. You can get a car for quite a bit less if you're willing to search with Private Parties. Also, it's a bit more work, but some owners treat their cars much better than others and you'll never find this out through a dealer. When you talk to a seller and watch how they treat the car as they show it to you, you learn a lot about the car. You won't get the factory extended warranty, but since you're looking at an '01 or '02, the car will still be under the regular warranty. No, but while it's under warranty the dealer can do warranty work while they have it. Maintenance schedule is pretty light, too. Some feel that this detracts from resale value in the long run, but that's pretty much up to you. On this forum, most seem to really enjoy modifying the car. C2, because it was more affordable. Any red car stands out in a crowd. Most Porsches do as well. I say pick the color you like. Good luck, and let us know what you get.

Whoops, just remembered. I hear the radio is really difficult to upgrade from '02 on. Something about the MOST bus system. Do a search and you may find more info.

Barry: I am on Porsche number 4, a white '99 with Aerokit with 8500 miles. I bought it specifically to use everyday. I bought a white one because it is easy to clean - 10 minutes to wash, and no need for Rejex or buffing or any of that business. I bought it from a Porsche collector I trust - it was in perfect condition and is trouble free. And finally, though I vowed I would never own a water cooled 911, it has proven to be the most useful everyday Porsche I have ever owned - I don't look at the temp gauge every 30 seconds because the water cooling works so well. I drive my 3 daughters to school in it everyday and it kind of sticks out in the line of mini vans and SUVs. Find the right car and you will be happy. A dealer might be a good place to look, but there are some reputable independents out there. Sometimes these certification programs are more about getting you in the front door than making sure you get a good car. Steve 99 996 64 356C 76 930

Barry, I agree with your original thoughts--I would stick with an '02 or newer. Despite that, the '01 should have been more impressive than it sounds like it was. Even though C4S's have larger brakes, in street driving an '01 still should have outstanding braking performance. C2 vs. C4 is a hot topic--search for same here in the archives. I prefer C2 handling, but this is one of those topics in which everyone has an opinion which usually coincides with what they're driving! '02 cars still have the pre-MOST bus for the stereo; later cars are more difficult to upgrade, if that's important to you. A big plus if you're looking at cabs is the change to a glass rear window in '02. Good luck in your search. Andy

The '02 was a major model change from the '01. Aside from 20 more HP, they stiffened the chassis considerably and improved the aerodynamics of the car. They may look the same, but they are not. Plus they solved a lot of the squeaks and rattle issues. I spent a few $$ more for a certified '02 and think it was well worth it. As someone who made a mistake with their first P-car purchase, let me provide a little insight. These cars are basically built a-la-carte. The option list is endless-the basic car is stripped. Make sure you understand what options you want on your car, i.e., PSM, litronics, heated seats, full leather w/lumbar & memory, 18" wheels, etc. The first P-car I purchased didn't have a bunch of stuff that I wanted. Ended up selling it in 7 months (ouch) to get the one I wanted-with the right options. Don't rush. It took me four months to find the one that I wanted.

Thanks to everyone for the information to date. In terms of all weather capability I am looking for a car that I can drive all year but I am not looking for something that will go through deep snowdrifts. My current car is mid-engine rear wheel drive and works fine as long as I have switched to snow tires (don�t even THINK about taking out in the snow with the OEM ones though � yikes!) and I would be assuming that the same would apply to the 911. If that is not the case then please let me know. Regarding the stereo � I�m not really into having top quality audio in the car but a CD player is a must (and I believe was not standard) so that would need to be done if it did now have one already. My assumption is that most of them would already have this. Thanks for the info on the difference between the 01 and the 02. I knew about the power change but was not aware of the glass on the cab (big difference IMHO) and the sundry other changes. One big question that I have seen mention of (and I will probably find it elsewhere when I go and look) � what is the RMS problem? Is this something I should be worried about? Thanks again! Barry

I've owned a 2001 C4 and currently own a 2004 C4S Cab. I've used both as daily drivers from Monroe, NY to NYC and Stamford, CT. and they make great daily drivers! I highly recommend the C4 for daily driving in the northeast. And yes, you do need snow tires. I have 17" Dunlop Winter M2 tires that are perfect, I can drive through 5" of snow with no problems, with the summer tires I can't even get up my driveway - even with the awd. I would also suggest, as others have, in getting a MY02 or higher. Even the interior build quality is so much better. RMS (rear main seal) shouldn't be a huge concern, just make sure you get a certified Porsche or have a PPI done on one that isn't. I would try Pepe Porsche in White Plains (there service department is fantastic and I won't take my car anywhere else)... try to avoid Prestige, if you want details about them e-mail me. I bought my 04 c4s cab from Alfie at IRA Porsche (rennlist sponsor) in Boston and it was a very good experience give him a call. Best of luck to you! Rob

RMS = Rear Main Seal ... A design flaw in the engine can result in a leak at the main bearing seal between the engine and transmission. If it happens under warranty they fix it no problems, if it happens after warranty they still might fix it for free if you have a good relationship with the dealer. It is not a catastrophic problem, and if you do buy a cert. pre-owned you won't have to worry about paying for it for years. A C2 with snow tires will definitely be fine in the snow, but a C4 with snow tires is a tank in the snow. I use mine to go skiing in VT without any problems. As far as the glass back window, since you're in NJ, you should look for a cab with a hard top, so the glass window really only applies to warmer weather when the top should be down anyway Tho CD players are not standard, most cars at least have a in-dash CD. You can get a porsche CD changer on ebay for not too much, if you want more than one disc, or for the same money you can buy an Ipod and tap into the AUX feature (very easy to do). Instead of 6 discs you get 40 GB of music, literally thousands of songs. Tho there are hundreds of options, many can be retrofitted. The few that can't (at least not without major difficulty) are PSM (traction control), PCM (nav sys - VERY hard on pre-03 cars), heated seats. Most everything else can be added later on...even xenon lights. So keep that in mind if you find 'the one' but she is missing _____! Good luck with the purchase, keep us updated and post pics once you get it...

Thanks everyone. What a fantastically friendly bunch. I am certainly enjoying just looking right now so I will try to curb my normal reaction to just go and get 'one' and wait for 'the one'. Barry

The 996 had a facelift in '02, which included new headlights, stiffened chassis, increased power, finally a decent Bose stereo option, and overall refinements. I had a '99 C2, then a '02 C2 and now a '04 C2, and each one was an evolutionary improvement over the last, with the '02 facelift being the most noticeable. '03+ cars have the MOST (fibre optic) bus, so upgrading with anything aftermarket stereo wise is a major effort. My '04 is light years ahead of the '99 (and--to a lesser extent--the '02) in terms of driving enjoyment (power and handling) and build quality (much less squeaks/rattles). There are goods buys to be had on used 996s, but I wouldn't buy one without driving it. If you find a nice one out of your area, have a PDI done by a Porsche dealer, and if that looks good, then fly/drive out to inspect it yourself before buying.

During my test drive I found myself heading down a highway with a 55 limit while doing 75 in fourth. The car felt perfectly composed and I didn�t feel any need to switch to a higher gear, particularly as 4th gave effortless acceleration when needed. So�the obvious question is�does anyone actually use 5th or 6th in normal day to day driving?

I use them all the time. You're going to burn up allot more gas if you only use 4th gear on the freeway.

Choices...choices... My dealer just rang and said that he has two cars within my budget. One is an 01 Cab. C2, the second is an 03 C4S coupe. The 03 is around 10k more. Both are in the right color and have the options that I am loooking for. Milage is similar - condition is good in both cases. Which would you chose given the choice?

I confess to being biased! I would go for the C4S. Given that it's an 03, the advantages of the later model years have been covered already. I drive my C4S all year, and with the winter wheels, I haven't had any problems. Good luck!

There is a 2 year difference there, so even if the cars were comparable mechanically (which they are not), you'd still have 2 years more warranty. I'd say go with the C4S, excellent car, and with winter tires you can use it all year round. Before you do the deed, ask the dealer to certify the car so you get an additional 2 years or 50k miles (total of 6yr/100k since in service date).

with all due respect, there is little to compare between an 03 c4s and an 01 c2cab. the only way that i would get the c2 cab is that if i had to get a cab, and i was on a budget. if i needed a cab, i would try to get the higher hp. 02 and newer. otherwise, for 10k more, i would get the c4s coupe, especially since you are from the northeast and would need all weather capability. just one more point-there are a load of new 03 cars out there at big discounts that i think that you are missing. the same goes for early 04's. i would do more shopping if i were you.

Take your time it's a buyer's market right now.

Thanks - you guys are the best! I certainly believe that my dealer has added a significant markup to the '03 C4S and that he would be willing to come down considerably. I think there is less room on the 01 but still bargaining to take place. There seem to be plenty around right now so I am willing to take my time...but that doesn't stop the fun of talking about it!