Swapping rear tires to even wear

Rear tires wear fastest on the inside. Does anyone remount their tires to exchange left and right rears? Anyone know what the cost would be? Apologies if a repeat question. Search function would not work.

Since many, if not most, high performance tires are directional, there is no way to exchange left to right. Most differences in tread life occur front to back.

I think he/she is referring to the tendency of the rear tires to wear more on the inside shoulder than the outside one. In theory, you could swap left to right without changing the rotating direction. But I don't know if it's a good idea or not.

Yes there is. You dismount the tires from the rims and swap them from side to side. I've got a local guy that does it for ~$20 a tire. -Andy

As AudiOn19s mentions this can be done, although I haven't done it on my Porsche - new tyres.

I asked the local tire rack installer to do this (dismount, and re-mount correctly oriented on the opposite side of the car)and they refused saying it would be unsafe, and the tire had already "worn in" with the alignment settings etc from the initial install.

So I guess the installer is against changing over to winter tires also, what with his concerns about the alignment settings from summer tires? Sounds like a load of BS to me.

If your tires are ONLY directional, then yes...it will work...some tires are symmetrical as well they have a specific rotation direction AND a specific inside and outside. For example this is my tire the Sport Conti..... Its designed to have a part of the tread on the OUTSIDE of the wheel and a certain part on the INSIDE of the wheel...flipping them would reverse that and probably produce some interesting handling....

I have done this on my A4 without any problems. I was getting too much wear on the inside fronts as the alignment couldn't be adjusted closer to 0 degrees since the car was lowered quite a bit. I can't see why turning around directional tires on a wheel would be a problem, as long as it balanced and torqued correctly back on your car. Of course, new tires are better but why spend more $ when you don't need to? To reverse all 4 tires, balance, etc. cost me $80 CDN.

How about this...the tread is designed to evacuate water by channeling it in a certian direction with respect to the way the wheel rotates...you reverse that, it loses its ability to evacuate water effectively, and you have created a situation where ALL 4 tires are prone to losing grip in the wet. Not safe. Thats just ONE example of why its not good to reverse a directional tire.

You have to consider whether the tires are symmetrical (same tread inside and outside) and directional (the manufacturer designates the direction of rotation on the sidewall of the tire) and also whether you have whitewalls on the inside or outside (hehehe yup, I know, not quite). The assumption below is you have same size tires left and right side. The examples below don't include swapping front to rear since the majority of high performance cars have different tire sizes and in some rare cases wheel sizes front and rear. symmetrical means same tread pattern across the surface of the tire. Asymmetrical means different tread pattern across the surface of the tire and manufacturer probably has indicated on the outside of the tire which side is outside and which is inside. Directional means the tires have been designated by the manufacturer to rotate a specific way and this is usually found on the sidewall of the tire. 1. If your tires are symmetrical and non-directional this should not be a problem. Same tread pattern is presented to the road on inside vs. outside of tire if swapped left to right and vice versa. 2. If your tires are symmetrical and directional this should not be a problem. Same tread pattern is presented to the road inside vs. outside of tire if swapped left to right and vice versa. 3. If your tires are Asymmetrical this also usually means that they are directional as well and this would be a problem (as illustrated by the Conti picture above from newport996). A different tread pattern is presented to the road on the inside of the tire vs. the outside of the tire for various reasons by the manufacturer (i.e. rain/wet handling vs dry handling vs cornering vs sidewall stiffness vs. wear etc.). Whether under conditions 1 and 2 you want to present a different wear pattern due to usage to the road or not is another question. If the swapping is done somewhere in the middle of the life of the tire it probably won't make a lot of difference. If you are at the wear bars on the inside and then switch this might be more of an issue to be aware of (outer or inner now has much greater wear than before the swap, older tire, harder rubber, change in the handling characteristics of the car that you have become used to). The tire rack and tire stores are being safe and conservative. Track guys do it all the time to manage wear on tires at different corners of the car. Experienced street drivers do it too with knowledge that the handling characteristics of the tires might be different temporarily or until the tires are used up in comparison with the new set. You'll make an informed choice and deal with the issues I suppose. I've personally done this on my track car in that past but I had the same size wheels and tires at all 4 corners and swap and move them around to manage tire wear. And, I've done this on my street car on the rear where I've got symmetrical directional tires and an agressive camber and wanted to manage tire life. Regards, Marc

I have CSC2's as well. Now, Since, I think they are not directional (I don't see an arrow on the side of the tires), can I instead just directly swap the rears to the other side without dismounting the tires? I've dismounted tires to rotate them on my Bimmer (directional & staggered) before, and it cost about $60 for 4 tires (including balance) at Discount Tire.

Most asymmetrical are not directional -- they just have a marking "outside" to ensure which side it at the center of the car. These can be rotated left/right -- however most people find their left/right tire wear pretty even. Symmetrical tires that are directional can be dismounted from the rim and remounted on a rim from the other side of the car safely -- this way the rotation (direction of the arrow) is the same, but the opposite side of the tire is on the "inside" Symmetrical tires that are NOT directional can be reverse mounted on the same rim, on the same side of the car. Old bias ply tires, and earlier radials, had problems with belt movement inside the rubber when you rotated them. Due to this, manufacturers had very specific instructions on which tire could be moved where for a regular rotation. These days, tires (especially performance tires) are a much higher quality, and do not have these restraints. The shop that refused to remount the tires is probably working under this assumption.

He's not a surgeon. He's a tire changer. TELL him to do it, don't ask him. Tell him you'll pay him.

Well, looks like I need to add a new category based on the cosmosc4s question and the picture of the CSC2 tire. 4. It is asymmetrical but it appears to be non-directional. Further support is that the tirerack website does not mention that it is directional, and, the continental tires website does not indicate that the CSC2 is a directional tire. It is asymmetrical (has an inside and outside tread pattern). "Bionic Contour for precise steering and braking BiNet tread compound provides optimum traction and handling on wet/dry surfaces Stiff ribbed tread pattern maintains stable contact during braking and cornering PURE PERFORMANCE FOR THE TRUE CAR ENTHUSIAST Asymmetrical tread pattern optimizes each side of tread Excellent handling and outstanding traction Bionic Contour (Advanced Mold Concept - AMC) - narrow, rounded ground contact patch when driving Deformation-Resistant Shoulder Grooves for water dispersion Asymmetrical with solid outer shoulder for optimum handling. Extra wide circumferential grooves for efficient water dispersion" So, this means that theoretically it could be swapped from left to right and vice versa while staying on the same wheel. It will rotate a diferent direction than it had rotated on the opposite side. On modern tires this is not usually a problem. Older tires might have had an issue with this due to construction and technology. Regards, Marc

If the tire changer guy thinks he's doing something bad for which he might be liable, he's going to refuse and that would be his right. Not many people you can "tell" to do anything in this world.

Some good points by all. We don't recommend it. For track use, you may get a bit more life out of the tire if the tread depth is at 2 or 3/32 or almost worn completely. Above that and the car could seem unsettled. Some track tires are designed with body plies that come together at 45 degree angles. Turning them around allows the ground to "pick" them apart because the leading edge of the splice is hitting the ground first as opposed to the trailing edge had they been rolling the intended way. For street use it may be bad as it throws too many variables into the mix. Asymetric tires usually have larger tread block on the outside shoulder and are designed to move laterally a specific way according to how they are designed, and actually use the hinge points of the tread design to move as they corner. When you flip them and then push them into a corner and they are backwards, the tire could deform significantly more than if they were installed correctly. If they are directional, the above happens on top of a significant reduction in hydroplane resistance. Some tires (the PS2, for example) almost certainly use different rubber compound mixes on one side of the tire than the other as well. Flipping them could result in much faster wear than expected - several times faster. Of course you could tune some of the camber out of the alignment and reduce the improper wear, but in doing so you of course reduce some of the steering ability and capability of the car. I guess the bottom line is that nobody can make the promise by doing so you will not gain a bit more tire life at the expense of wrecking your handling. And unfortunately, it takes the expense and risk to your wheels of a tire change to see what you have done. Cost of ownership......

The contis, and all asymmetric non-directional tires, can be swapped (without dismounting from the wheel) from left to right without a problem. But it sort of defeats the purpose since the inside of the tire would still be the inside of the tire. These types of tires should NOT be dismounted from the wheel and reversed since they are by design, intended to have the interior of the tread block facing inwards. Turning it outwards would undermine what the tire engineers designed. Symmetric directional tires CAN be dismounted from the wheel and swapped to the other side of the car if you are wearing away the interior of the tire. However, they must be dismounted, for if you simply swapped the wheels without doing so, they'd be facing backwards. You can do whatever you bloody well feel like with symmetrical non-directional tires. Make a tire swing for all one cares.

Or you could just pony up for new tires. Seems a shame to squeeze a nickel too hard on something like this when you own one of the best handling cars ever made.

My buddy does it all time with Michelin Sport Cup tires he never had a problem. He drives 110miles to the track and back home. He has a 03 TT and has been doing this for a couple of years.

Newport996 - How about this...the tread is designed to evacuate water by channeling it in a certian direction with respect to the way the wheel rotates...you reverse that, it loses its ability to evacuate water effectively, and you have created a situation where ALL 4 tires are prone to losing grip in the wet. Not safe. Thats just ONE example of why its not good to reverse a directional tire. Good point, I don't mean reversing the direction of the tire - I mean dismounting and remounting the tire so it goes on the other side of the car in the same proper rotation. And mine are just directional not different tread pattern from inside to outside.

I told the surgeon to "take my gallbladder out" and I switched my p zero rossos rears left to right (no dismount ) without any problems.

Ah, the "I/my buddy do/does it all the time and never has a problem" argument. More power to you, but I could use the same defence for jaywalking. Doesn't make it a good idea. My money is on the tire guy.

Of course, the board-certified, Ph.D. in quantum physics, automotive engineer. He's a tire installer. Nothing more. Nothing less. It's all hearsay. But as someone mentioned above, it's really squeezing nickels. In the end, the cost of remounting and rebalancing the tires probably offsets any savings.

I was actually referring to Damon, the Tire Rack guy. And, yeah, my money is still on him. Setting aside my personal crusade against nickel-squeezing with your Porsche, you have to admit that these decisions are not simple, binary arguments. You're playing the odds. To me (and I'll confess the bias of being involved in a lot of gear-intensive sports), the price of riding on fresh tires is worth the confidence you get when those super-legal speed opportunities come along. My car will occasionally see 200kph. The dubious advantages of delaying - not even avoiding, just delaying, mind you - a tire purchase pale at those moments.

BruceP, Do you think that tire change mechanic subscribes to this rigid code of ethics? If he does, d oyou think he has the knowledge? As far as "squeezing the nickel too hard", our friends at Porsche have managed to give us a suspension setup that is probably the most abusive on rear tires compared to almost anything on the road. I've been driving 600 HP Corvetyes for a couple decades and get 2 or 3 times the tire life than my 320 HP Porsche. The Corvette rear geometry doesn't use such stupidly high numbers for negative camber. I think it's within the owner's rights to try to get a little more use from his tires than just the inside edge. Damon, Agreed. Directional tires should not be rotated the wrong way. Agreed, asymmetric tires should not be run with inside edge out. But it seems to me that you're combining two not necessarily unrelated things together and assuming they both apply to these (any) particular tires. The only tires that could not be switched because of these rules would be ones that are both directional and asymmetric, right? This would mean that your rear tires would have two distinct part numbers, correct? So if the tires are the same part number left and right, and have less wear than you'd like to see, what is the reason not to switch them?

Bruce, that's a very good point, and I personally adhere to your logic. But.... He makes an entirely correct observation. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with swapping them, even if you or I wouldn't do so. P.S. - This spring, I might have accidentally put the left rear wheel/tire on the right rear and vice versa when I was putting on the summers. I just couldn't remember which went where. No worries, though, I stored the winters in a manner such that I'll be able to recall it when it's time to swap back into them. Then again, I have Pirelli PZero Asymmetricos (which I'm not likely to be purchasing again by the way, but that's for another thread), so as long as the interior is still interior, I'm good to go. Not for nothing, the car's riding fine.

On your tire mechanic question, no, I don't. I imagine he just heard it somewhere and figured better safe than sorry in this litigious age. On your Corvette reference, good for you. That's why the 'vette is the poor man's exotic. Rear tires are consumables on a 911. The work Porsche had to do to make a rear engined car handle as well, as safely and as predictably as the 996 and 997 do created a lot of compromises, as all engineering does. One is that it eats tires. If that's not tolerable, drive something else. If you're content to stretch them out a bit, even if it costs you some margin or some performance, you're correct. That is your right. All I'm saying is, I wouldn't do it. Not my lifestyle. If I took that attitude with every toy I have, the cumulative risk to my poor old bones would be unmanageable. So I take care of my stuff, and that includes not compromising safety and performance so I can leave a few hundred dollars in the bank for a few more months... 'cuz remember, you're buying tires eventually anyway. To really get ahead by stretching them out, you're not going to see any real benefit financially until you've gone through several purchase cycles. It's false economy.

nycebo, I hear you. I guess if I was going to do that, I wouldn't wait until there was wear on the tires. I'd treat it as tire rotation, and do it at regular intervals. Doing it when there's a lot of wear is still, IMHO, not worth it.

I'm 100% with ya on that one. If you're seeing one side going away, it's too late.

YES it can de done provided your tires are NOT like newport's...I have done it with several cars of mine that tires would not have inside/outside labels...

Maybe this has been covered, but why would you switch sides with an asymmetrical tire? The inside of the tire is still the inside of the tire after you switch it.

yes, it has been covered...

Actually, the original question was about demounting the tires and remounting them on the other side so the inside was now on the outside. This would be with directional but symmetrical tires.