New Member, possibly moving from M3 to a 996 soon...

Firstly, I apologize for the "how much is this car worth" thread below. I realize these can get old. I am looking at a higher mileage, 2-owner, 2001 996 Carrera 4 coupe to replace my 2003 M3 as my DD. I'm primarily looking for some guidance on pricing. It seems that the values on these cars are all over the place. Info on car: -Lapis Blue Metallic -Black Full Leather Interior -Aero Kit -Heat/Power Seats -Xenons -122k miles The car appears to be well cared for both inside and out. The seller also claims that the IMS bearing, rear main seal, chain tensions, low temperature thermostat, third radiator, and x-51 oil pan have all been replaced preventatively. I will double check all of this when I see his maintenance records. Assuming a PPI checks out to be good, what would you guys expect to pay for this?

Year? That's potentially a 7-year spread, so it does make a difference. Given the high mileage, and considering the PM work that you won't have to do, I'd say 25ish.

Sorry, forgot to add that. I edited my first post, it's a 2001.

For reference, I paid 30 for mine about a year and a half ago - black/black, full aero (GT3-look), all upgrades except IMSB, 45K miles. Given what it would have cost to build a standard 996 into the car I purchased (roughly $20K in upgrades), $30K was a great price in my opinion. The intervening 18 months have not been especially kind for 996 resale, so I think I could do better today...but ultimately I'd still pay $30K for the car. It's f'n awesome.

I'd guess $20K-$25K range depending on the outcome of the PPI. It's not a garage queen, it is more a car to enjoy on a daily basis

I paid 19500$ Canadian for my 99 coupe c2, with 70k miles, no problems, beautiful shape

How much is it listed for? Based on that, we might be able to help you determine whether the seller has realistic expectations of value.

For that kind of mileage < $20k

122K? Has a 60K major maintenance been done? That is a $1500 to $2000 ticket.. At what mileage was the suspension replaced? I would not pay more than $19K for that car. Less if there is no suspension work.

Pre facelift C4, you are looking at $20-25k. Ignore the BS about 60k being a $2k service. Independent Porsche mechanic will do it for $600 in my area (includes oil/filter change, replace spark plugs, air filter, cabin filter, drive belt. Full vehicle inspection with DME report. Full fluids check). If you are doing it yourself, it is a sub $300 job. Pay less attention to miles than to the owner. If it was a commuter car, driven a lot on the highway- jump on it. Verify the maitenance history and go from there. Mileage bias on this board is everywhere, so 80k miles is high mileage here. From my experience reading this board and from posts in my fuel mileage thread, I would stay away from any low mileage 911; a lot of them get treated like abused ******. IE, they sit unused for week(s), then they are raped on saturday when sky is clear and owner gets his blue pill in the mail, then they go back to the garage for "babied low mileage" life .

If it's "just a 996," lowball. If it's _the_ 996, I'm sticking with $25K number. Kalashnikov isn't so far off... my '96 Corvette only has 25K miles on it, but some of those have been HARD miles earned at autocross, the drag strip, etc.

it's a $20k car.

A 120K+ mile car will not need new coil packs, brakes, fuel filter, tranny flush, brake flush, wheel bearings, clutch or possibly a 2nd round of AOS replacement soon? Maintain your car anyway you want to ensure your personal safety when pushing your car. Read your manual on recommended parts replacements and fluid changes. Any seller will be happy to have a buyer overpay. It is your money and no one here can tell you how to spend it.

Make sure you drive one first. Compared to the M3 you may find that you dont like the power delivery or chassis dynamics. If you are just going for status then yes, its a better car.

Devil's advocate; I would rather have an M3 as a DD...I have an e46 325Ci that I DD and take on long trips over my 996 all the time. A lot more room for people and cargo, better stereo, and more comfortable. Not to mention the tire budget for a 996 is a lot more expensive than an M3. But for the real driving on track and at autocross...the 996 is where it's at.

I wouldn't go one dime above $20,000. Not even if the Queen of England herself once owned it. With 122,000 miles on the clock. BUT BUT BUT the fact that it has aero kit, has heated seats and is a C4 doesn't make any difference to me at all. If it was a cab I would say $25000. Hey if you like it then go for it because you will get all kinds of different prices from us guys.

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It's funny you say that, because I have not actually driven a 996 yet. I have always loved the 996 body since I was young, but I could say the same for the E46 M3. This will be my DD, but I do AutoX pretty frequently during the summer. So I'm looking for a better dual purpose vehicle. I'll have to test drive a 996 and report back. As for this car in particular, the seller just got back to me and it seems to be really well maintained, and will come with some goodies... • KW V1 coilovers • GT3 swaybars (front and rear with adjustable droplinks) • GT3 lower control arms • GT3 brake ducts • X-51 oil pan • 997 shifter • Evoms intake • GMG WC rollbar (rear seats are currently removed but included) I've always been told within the BMW community that mods do not add to the value of a car. Same rules apply here? The seller is super knowledgeable, I feel good now having spoken to him. He's a real Porsche nut. The seller just lowered the price down to 22k, which leads me to believe theres some wiggle room in the price. Although I will know better once I get a good look at it in person. All of the added goodies do make this pretty enticing. Keep the tips coming guys.

How many miles on your M3? A car that has over 100k will not only need more work, but also be worn more inside - seats get worn more, carpet, leather, steering wheel, etc. Why not look for a lower mile car??

KW V1s are decent but its the cheapest in their lineup. Mods don't add value. It helps selling the car to the right buyer with similar intentions. Roll bar is a sign that this is a tracked car. Make sure maintenance records reflect a tracked car maintenance and not at street car intervals.

For reference, my M3... http://www.flickr.com/photos/102256928@N08/9811500883/http://www.flickr.com/photos/102256928@N08/9811500883/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/102256928@N08/, on Flickr And the 996 in question... http://www.flickr.com/photos/102256928@N08/10297952983/http://www.flickr.com/photos/102256928@N08/10297952983/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/102256928@N08/, on Flickr A little off topic, but how does the C4 drive compared to the rear drive 911's? Lots more understeer or just more available grip? I'm wondering if you can still break the tail loose with the C4. I do enjoy a little controlled slide from time to time.

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My M3 has 179k miles so I'm very familiar with what a higher mileage car will need, and I will be prepared for that. I'm used to paying through the nose for ///M parts so why not make it porsche parts instead? I'm not looking for a minty fresh 911, I simply can't afford one. Plus this is going to be a DD, why buy a perfect one if it's going to see salt/snow/rain/sun etc... The car has seen some track time, and the maintenance list seems to account for that. Again, I'll know better once I see everything in person and get a PPI done.

I would drive that 996 before you fall in love with it. With the modded suspension and roll bar, the car may not be as fun to daily-drive as your M3.

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You know what is funny kn? I was checking Ebay and craigslist for 2nd set of rims for 996 for possible winter use, and what I found is that people are dumping factory 17"/18" wheels with good tires for $600-$1,000. It is absurd, but it seems like buying a full set of slightly used rims with good tires is much cheaper than buying brand new set of N rated tires. I was mindblown with people selling MY 2011/12 Cayman wheels with almost new tires for $750.

That does look like a nice 996 to be sure, regardless of miles. Good news about the 996 4wd drive system is that it is entirely mechanical, so if you get tired of the extra weight, you can just unbolt the thing and drive the car as a 2wd for a bit. Guys do it to turbos; there's a thread on here somewhere showing a DIY... I don't think I would want to replace an m3 with that car, though. Can you afford to keep both?

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How long do rear summer tires usually last on these cars? I normally get around 12k-15k out of a set of rears on the ///M. I can't imagine that a 996 could be much worse. ^I wish, maybe if I won the lottery. You guys aren't helping me make a decision. I'm beginning to rethink selling the ///M.

Looks similar to mine... 2003 C2. Bought it with 101,000 miles. Paid about $21 K, but then did a bunch of preventative maintenance. It was all "optional" PM, but was rather expensive. Whether or not the mods add value... I think that's BS to say they don't. Of course, they will never add value in the amount that they cost. But, if they are mods you want, then they should add value to the buyer. If they are irrelevant mods, then maybe not so much. That's the thing about mods, they have different value to different people. The point is, use them as a bargaining tool. I really like the aero kit on the car you are looking at.

The mileage for rear tires won't be much worse, but the price for 285 width tires will be. I love the 996 but if I could only have one, I would pick even my 325Ci over the 996, even though the 996 is way sportier. I don't think it's worth the premium you'll pay selling the M3 and then getting into a 996. What I would do if I was you is keep the M3 and get a 944, which is another fun, "cheap" Porsche.

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+1 on this suggestion. There is no better bang for the buck (Porsche-wise) than a 944. I would recommend an '89 or newer, preferably a 944S2. I started out with 944s (3 of them over a period of years). Even though I now have a 996 Cab and a Cayman, I actually still miss the 944s.

The 996 is a better cruiser car than dual purpose car. The oiling system on the M96 is crap whereas your M3 already has dual pickup sump and an oil cooler from the factory, big radiator, and a finned differential. Its a nearly a race drivetrain for the street. The M96 with a X51 pan is not even close to one. To try and match it you would need a L&N oil filter kit, 3rd radiator, motorsport AOS, IMS bearing, better pump, and pray your sleeves don't fail, crack, or heads crack. 50/50 balance on the M3 is also way easier to drive at the limit than the 996 on track.

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Huh, you seem somewhat biased. Which 996 do you own? I'd argue the AWD of the 996 being looked at by the OP will outperform an M3 on a twisty track, as I've done in my C4S running against BMW's at one of their HPDE club events.

I went from an E36M3 to a 996C2 and it felt softer. Both are great DD's, but a 996.1 is going to be more along the lines of E36 interior and the 996.2 is more along the lines of E46.

If your interested in a cab as a DD with the hard top I just listed my car this weekend on Craigslist and it looks like your also in PA. Send me an IM if your interested its a 99 45K miles, well maintained including IMS upgrade, new clutch, etc, etc within the last few years. Its a great car and I hate to part with it but I need the money for a new business interest......then in a couple years I hope to step up to a 997 S.

I tend to agree the with m3billy. E46 m3 is a better dual purpose car, easier to own and take it to the track... Now the 911 (any variant imho) is not just how individual part of the car works or performs but how the sum of parts come together for experience. 911 (except for the latest Turbo IMHO agian) is never a car that wins best car of the year awards based on quantitative reasons but usually the overall experience. It the feedback, unique balance and driving characteristics that made me switch from my e36 m3 and 986 boxster to my current 996 c4s. There are many cars that are faster, cost less and are easier to drive on a daily basis. There is usually only one wide hipped, unbalanced and emotionally engaging "yellow bomb" cruising down the highway as I drive to work. By the way I did not drive it to work today because it is at the shop getting a new clutch, rms, ims etc. you know the whole "I can sleep at night" package.

Why are you even on this site if you are so Bimmer biased? Pete

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I'm beginning to wonder the same, I did not expect to be talked out of buying a 996. I appreciate all of your honesty though guys.

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I owned a 996 C2 (in between BMWs) and paid my Rennlist membership. There is nothing wrong putting my experience and membership to use. If you'd like to pay me my Rennlist membership fee I will gladly leave.

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Having owned over a dozen bimmers(4 M models), I tend to agree but when you do learn how to drive a 996, it will be a lot more rewarding. I think the price is more than fair for someone looking to eventually mod their cars and also specifically looking for an aero model. Mods on these cars do not come cheap and if you are planning to eventually mod it, it's better to buy one with the mods already if the price is inline with other stock cars imo.

Traded in my 01 E46 M: For a 2003 C4S: never looked back....and glad I made the move! What are you waiting for????

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Funny, only a few years ago I owned this combo. E46 M3 as a daily driver... 944 as a fun autocross/ track/ fun car. I'd trade my 996 to go back to that combo any day. I do agree with the above statements... while I don't want to talk you out of a 996 (it does have it's advantages over an E46 M3) make sure it's what you want. Test drive a bunch... read up on the problem areas. I was shopping for my second E46 M3 and due to availability here (not many coupe/ manuals for sale at the time) I opened up what I was looking for. While I don't fully regret it, I do love my 996... and have a lot of plans for it for me to love it even more, and give me a more rewarding "raw" feeling that I love. I can't say it's a better car overall than my M3 was.

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blah blah blah... Think I will join a bimmer forum and rag on them about their cars, even though I don't currently have one. And yes I've owned a BMW in between Porsches.

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I've also owned a 997.1 C2, but didn't think it was worth mentioning since this is the 996 forum. Great car. Waiting for the 997.2 with the DFI motor to come down in price and reduce my car fleet before I get one. The 9A1 engine appears to be pretty stout.

The blue C4 aero I spoke about checks out to be awesome, and everything I could hope for. But I've decided to keep my E46 M3 instead. Eventually I will find my way to a Porsche, but for the time being I will sink some more preventative maintenance and mods into the ///M. Rod bearings, engine/trans mounts, headers, 200 cell cats, and some sway bars should help me forget about 996's for a little while. Thanks for all the help guys!

Good luck with your M3! If and when you change your mind for a P-car, we look forward to having you join the club! Pete

122,000 miles is a lot of miles on that engine... get something with lower mileage - I would avoid it based on that alone - if you do buy it I say $16K

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in that case I wish to rescind my blahs. Sent from my iPad using Rennlist