Buy Random Orbit Polisher or Hire a Pro?

Hi all, I'm thinking of improving the paint on my '99 cab this spring. I've done clay bar work and a few coats of good wax in the past, but there are still swirl marks and minor scratches, I'm assuming from careless washing by the PO. I read the virtures of the random orbital polishers such as the Porter Cable or Griots units, and I don't mind spending time working on the car. My question is, once I get the paint condition to my liking, what would I use the random orbit polisher for in the future? (Assuming I'm using careful washing techniques, etc.) I'm thinking I'd use it once every few years, and other than that, it would just take up space. By the time I buy the polisher and all the various pads, creams, and asscessories, it could be well over $200. For just slightly more than that, I could take the car to a professional detailer and have the polishing done while I go have a beer. : Spring is coming (I hope). What should I do?

What wax are you using? I would suggest a hand application of a "cleaner" wax. You would be surprised what it will do. Then finish off with a high end wax. An orbital will not polish per say it just makes the application of wax easier and more even. If the cleaner wax (such as maguires) doesn't do it after 2 coats, consider a pro then just do the maint waxing yourself once the finish is perfect. Flourescent light indoors is the best way to see imperfections, it brings out all the warts.

I bought a Griots random orbital (which I believe is made by Porter Cable) and I love it. I always feel that I can do a better job than somebody who doesn't really care about my car like I do. Also, I believe that having a beer is mandatory while using a random orbital polisher on your car, so you can kill two birds with one stone.

I use my porter cable random orbiter once a year on my 911. And I use it occasionally on my other cars. I've also helped friends detail their car. So, in short, if you get it, you'll use it more than once. it's a great tool and the results are phenomenal. And, personally, if you don't mind spending the time working on the car, you'll get better results than a pro. (Because, if some sections require extra work, you're happy to spend the time, where the pro knows that, at some point, he'll have to move on so your bill isn't astronomical!)

I agree with Van and Dennis. I love mine and would highly recommend it.

+1 for the Porter Cable polisher. I also use Griots 1, 2, 3 polish system with a little Speed Shine for extra lube while polishing. It is also a good quick "wax" after washing. http://www.griotsgarage.com/category...r+polishing.do

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Right now, I'm using Zymol wax, but considering the Zaino and Griots products. Seems like some folks are using the Random Orbiter to apply wax, not just polish out scratches?

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herein lies part of the problem.... wash, wax, polish, clay, buff, what cloth to use for wash/dry, etc., etc. for me, too confusing and too much conflict of what the "right way" is add the risk of jacking up the paint, and the fact I'm a lazy *** - and I'm going to the pros

I don't use my Porter Cable for wax, but I do use it for polishing (whether it's removing swirl marks, or just returning luster to the paint). So as others said, that's more than a once every three year job. You get so much better results with the PC with your polish with so much less work you'll find you use it all the time. -Shawn

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Agreed. I have a DeWalt rotary, a Cyclo, and a new Griots DA. All I use now is the Griots. The others just sit. It's a wonderful polisher. Nice and strong and has a lifetime warranty. I'm not saying it because we sell them either - it really is a great polisher. Call me if you have questions!

Damon - I bought mine from Tire Rack! I'm thinking of buying the smaller one too - it looks ideal for some of those tight spots on the C4S.

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Glad to hear you want to take your detailing skills to the next level. first, let me address your thoughts on getting a detailer to do the work for around $200-300...at that price point, you're not getting a proper detail AND paint correction. A proper paint correction will take a skilled detailer many hours to do properly and ranges from $500-1000++. That's not including the actual detail either. So, if you bought the products yourself, did a little homework on how to use the products you bought, then did it yourself, you'll be way ahead of the game. That, and you'll also have products to do the process for a few years. As for polishers, IMHO, don't waste your money on the PC or the Griot's. It's OK if you want to get by, but they'll get obsolete once you try and do serious paint correction. For the first and last tool you want, go with the FLEX http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...2C-dual/Detail This is a true professional tool made in Germany. It's a little more expensive than the PC or Griot's, but the results are many times better and the time it takes will be 1/2-1/3 of what it would take if you did the polishing with a PC or Griot's. If you're interested, check out this kit we offer...it's our best-seller and has everything you'll need to do a proper paint correction. You can then use the flex once or twice a year to do a simple polishing and waxing. So it won't be obsolete. http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...sh-Kits/Detail

Depends on how much you are "into" taking care of your car, balanced with the other things that you like to do, kids, wife, golf, boating, lawm, whatever, etc.. Me, I have had the Griots orbital for about 5 years, and I use it for polish and wax, approximatley 2-3 times per year, dependning on car's usage. Once in the Spring and once before she gets put away. Sometimes, depending on the swirl marks, dirt, etc., mid- season, BUT, I like my car very clean, and enjoy the process (usually takes me a whole day- inside and out). It's not a cost thing, it is that I can detail to a level that I prefer, and Griot's products are great. Not to say shops are bad, really depends on your "focus" as to what is worth it to you. Pay or spend the day...........?

how do I know if I need proper paint correction

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Great question. By proper paint correction, I mean polishing the paint and REMOVING the imperfection, not hiding it. Best way to tell is wipe your paint down with Isopropyl Alcohol. A small area will do. If your paint looks great in the sun, then you wipe with IPA, isopropyl alcohol, and you see little scratches or swirls, then your paint wasn't properly polished or the products you're using are hiding the imperfections, not removing them. This is OK as long as you know you're hiding and not removing the imperfections. If someone is telling you the product is removing, or their detail has removed the imperfections, and you do the IPA wipedown and see it hasn't, then that's where you need to change the product or ask the detailer why the discrepancy. Does this make sense?

How does this "true professional tool" accomplish the same job in 1/2 or 1/3 the time of a Porter Cable or Griot's unit? I'm curious... this sounds like quite a claim...

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Very easy...torque. A true dual-action pattern is both a side-to-side and an orbital pattern. If you press down on the PC or Griot's machine, you lose the circular motion and are basically going side-to-side. The flex does this by having an 11.5 amp motor, where the PC has 4.5, and Griot's has 7 amps. If budget is an issue, then the griot's is the way to go. If you want a quality tool that won't be obsolete and your time is worth money, then FLEX is the clear choice. If you've ever compared a flex to any other machine, side by side, the only reason you'd chose any other DA would be cost.

+1 for Moe Mistry.Guys take advice from one of the best in business and get what you pay for!!!

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Moe, I hear what you're saying, but I think that you are overstating the case. Just as in any profession, there are people that do things right, and people that do them wrong. In the case of detailing, just spending a lot of money doesn't guarantee a great job, just as paying less doesn't guarantee a lousy one. There is another issue here, too, and it's that we really don't know what condition OP's paint is in. Hearing a description doesn't do it justice. I don't pretend to be an expert on paint protection, nor on paint jobs. But I have had a bit of experience caring for a single stage paint job on Kermit, and I now am caring for the paint on my 2001 Turbo. The detail that I had done on my car cost me $255, and took the detailer 5 - 6 hours. You can take a look at the thread I posted a week or two ago about the detail I had done. I looked closely at the paint after, with a bright, single bulb, hand held light, and saw that the swirls had been removed. BTW, I disagree that fluorescent lights are the best way to see swirls. I think that a single bulb provides a single reflective source to allow you to see swirls and holograms. Fluorescent lights just make that more difficult, IMHO (and in the opinion of my detailer.) One thing that people don't realize is that they can do significant damage to their paint just by washing their car! Embedded grit in the soapy mitt will create swirls just as a stiff, hard (gritty) towel can create swirls when drying. (and by the way, if you EVER drop your mitt, or a towel on the ground while you are washing, drying, polishing or waxing your car - DISCARD IT - put it in the "to be washed" tub. You will NEVER be able to shake the grit out of it. You will scratch the finish of your car - Guaranteed.) I am still learning, but after having my car detailed this spring, I am learning how to wash it, and dry it (and getting the proper tools - buckets with Grit Guards, microfiber towels, a soapy mitt and a light touch) so that I don't damage the paint in the process. Maybe some day I'll get a polisher. For right now, I will wash the car by hand, pull it into the garage and wax it by hand, and once a year take it to someone who will polish out the paint maybe yearly, maybe every other year. So far, I love the way the car looks. BTW, here's the link to my detailer's website showing the damage to paint, and the "after" once he has fixed it. Lustr Detailing larry

honestly if you aren't washing your car with sand paper, a porter cable with the correct pad should deliver excellent swirl removal. You may not get rid of all the RIDs, but you'll have excellent looking paint. I like my PC with meguiars line of "ultimate" products...ie. ultimate compound, polish and wax. The flex is great, but the PC will get the job done.

Some of the decision-making process has to do with the color of the car....I see that the OP has a dark color car (Midnight Blue?). A darker color car like that will show swirls and RIDS more easily than silver or white. This means he will need higher capability in the polisher to reduce the imperfections. As Moe recommended, the Flex in this case would be the way to go. A darker color also means a need to polish more often (probably 2-3 times per year) therefore the economics of doing it yourself are more appealing.

Looking at the Flex, there's no doubt in my mind that it's better - the same way Snap-on tools are better than Craftsman... use them side-by-side and you'll see a difference. Like Moe said, it comes down to budget and the level of finish you're looking for. I've had fantastic results with the PC. For a great looking street driver, i think it hits the spot. A friend of mine had an old oxidized 924 - in a day we turned it into a different car. But, it's still a 924 that's getting driven year round. Not a Pebble Beach winner.

Van, That looks great, do you make house calls to the PNW? I've got a well stocked manfridge...

Van -- Well done. You can sure see the difference. congrats on the result - all the work paid off in spades (wait - spades are black) paid off in diamonds. larry

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I'm not sure I like the snap on-craftsman comparison. With snap on and craftsman, when you're done, the bolts are just as tight with either one. One may feel higher quality, and slightly more convenience (less angle on ratchet/ratcheting wrenches), but the end result is the same. The flex will be faster, and should allow more defect correction. That said, for the average DIYer, the PC will still get the paint looking great.

Flex XC3401 is the way. It rotates as well as orbits. Make corrections faster and retains the safety factor of the pure orbital. Clean foam pads-one cutting, one finishing. Mezerna PO106ff then PO85RD, or Meguiars 105/ 205 and finish with Cquartz or Opticoat. For about $400.00 from scratch, you won't have to touch it again for years . BD

The reason why I recommend the flex is, consumer psychology as well. We're all Porsche-heads here. That already says a lot about us. I personally will buy the best I can afford because I hate buying something only to have to replace it down the road because I cheaped out. My job, as a fellow enthusiast and a sponsor, is to educate and inform you guys. I cannot tell you how many clients we get that once they see us demo a flex at our clinics or events, and simply kick themself for not spending an extra $150 for the flex. At the end, that's it. There are times when the best is simply out of our reach due to finance. In this case, for most of us, an extra $150 is not out of reach. Even if it is, save a few bucks every week and buy it when you have enough....you won't be sorry. We sponsored a few other forums and the demographic was different. I'm use to sponsoring a forum, giving members solid advice, then seeing those serious about detailing simply call us or go on our site and place the order. Well, on the other forums, people were very price sensitive so we decided to bring on the PC 7424XP because I figured it was better than the old model and it was about $150 cheaper than the flex. What a mistake that was. Not only was I not impressed with the new PC, I really was excited to use it, but we sat on those things for almost a year. And I bought 20 of them! The point is, there's no substitute for quality, performance, and value. The flex gives you much better VALUE. Faster polishing time, noticeable result difference, more durable, more quiet, less vibration, etc. We can go back and forth on this, but like I said, I'm here to inform. The PC is a great tool...don't get me wrong. I used it for years before the flex. But I value my time and am OCD and want the best results. The PC is just not capable of removing major imperfections. For the avg. DIY detailer that wants to step it up from hand, PC is great. The big picture here is that we're all passionate about our cars. We spent almost 2 days detailing my wife's Cayenne a few weeks ago. It had the typical dealer scratches from when we picked it up new. If you want the best, ask the pros what they use on their cars as well. We used a combination of a Makita, rotary, and the flex. We use the flex practically EVERY day. The amount of use we put on a flex in 1 month, you guys will do in a lifetime. I still have my first flex, and use it weekly, from 2008. In the end, no mater what machine you go with, take some before/after pictures, post them here for all of us to admire, and enjoy your Porsche

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Thank you Sir I think our honest feedback, informative advice, and dependable results easily achieved following our advice, makes it easy to see why we're successful. Thanks for the kind words.

Moe What will be the price range for a proper paint correction on a 12 year old car? I know it depends on the color and condition but assuming is in decent shape. Just wondered. I have been debating on getting an orbital and tackle it myself as I do like working on my cars but am afraid I might burn the paint? I have had other 'detailers' do minor detail on my car with very poor results if you know what I mean. Thanks

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Great questions. I love Porsche paint and it's my favorite to work on because it is so durable and predictable. 60% of all the cars we detail are Porsche, so we've perfected the technique. Heavy swirls and imperfection - Polish - Menzerna Super Intensive and Super Finish Pads- GP Purple Wool, GP CCS Orange Foam, GP CCS White Foam Medium swirls and imperfection - Polish - Menzerna Super Intensive and Super Finish Pads- GP Yellow Foam, GP CCS Orange Foam, GP CCS White Foam Light/Medium swirls and imperfection - Polish - Menzerna Super Intensive and Super Finish Pads- GP CCS Orange Foam, GP CCS White Foam If using a PC, Griot's, or Flex, not impossible, buy highly unlikely to burn the paint. Hope this helps.

Amen to what Fly99 says -- I have black car and having a PC is a cost effective necessity just to keep it looking sharp -- not even perfect, but sharp. Prior to this I had a silver and a white car and never really felt a compelling need to own one. Just wash, wax weekly and go with a professional buffing every couple years. With a dark car the care is constant.

I hear you on that. I used to own a black boxster and someone really screwed my paint up. Love blacks and will not hesitate to get another black car. My Zenith blue is nice but the cleaner wax I apply hides imprefections but when put on the sunlight after a hot day the wax is gone and the marks come out. I will love to see that true mirror finish, you know?

Hey all, Thanks for the great info! I'm really a DIY'er at heart, so I'm going to take a closer look at the Griots and the Flex random orbitals, and skip the detail shop. I'll probably wait a few weeks for the weather to warm up. I'm not an OCD perfectionist, but I'd like the paint to look better than it does now. I need to price out the flex unit, but I'm leaning toward the Griots. Thanks!

I've been doing my own for 2 years and this weekend had a pro polish it and it looks ten times better. I think he brought the paint to a level I can maintain for another two years.

If I was buying today, I'd get the Flex. I have a porter cable and been using it for 8 years. Call up phil at Detailers Domain and consult on what your needs are. He'll guide you And you'll never look back

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Regardless of choosing the flex or griots, make sure you go with the Menzerna line of polishes and our CCS pads...they're compatible with both polisher and will give you second-to-none results. http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...rna/Categories http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...ols/Categories

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So, if you've been using a Porter Cable polisher for 8 years, and would rather have the Flex, the question is -- Why? From previous postings, it seems that most people that have the PC polisher have liked it. Have you found the PC inadequate for the past 8 years, or has it lost power over the years, or . . . . . . . . ? Your thoughts on this might be helpful for the rest of us. larry

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8 years ago, the PC was the hot tool. And so I got that. I simply don't want to spend $300 if I have a tool that works. However I find that it does take more time and since I'm not OCD, it dies a good enough job. It could do better. I also find that it vibrates a lot more than it should and that can get tiring as well. I probably will get the flex one of these days. I detail twice a year so maybe this fall.

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One of the biggest things you'll notice less on the flex compared to pc and griot's machine is less vibration and noise. You appreciate this after a few hours of polishing.

If you guys are interested, we can do a flex group buy. I'm happy to help push those of you that are on the fence to get this fabulous tool you'll love.

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I went both ways. I have a PC and tried all typical pad/polish combos. I've found that my time is more valuable right now and that there is no way that I can do the same job as a "true" detailer in much less time. I.e. - I can most likely get the same results, but it will take me much more time to do so. I just had my C4S done and it looks "creamy" under full sun - NO swirl marks or toweling marks whatsoever. Prior to that, the PO's car washing techniques probably involved a car wash. As what other posters said, you can also use it to wax the car and you will most certainly use it more than once. You'll even be tempted to get the Griot's 3" orbital as well. If I had to start from scratch, I'd probably buy the Flex and re-purchase the Griot's. I would then use Menzerna's Super Intensive polish as others have stated above and then a fine polish on top of that if even needed. I use Zaino products as the sealant and then put a Meguairs Gold on top of that.

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How would you compare these products with those available from Griots? I have the Griots system (with their version of the PC orbital) and have been using that for my car. The results are decent but I can probably stand to go a little more aggressive with the paint correction. But before I order all new stuff for this upcoming season I wanted to get your opinion on comparing and contrasting the two choices. Thanks!

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This is EXACTLY my complaint about the Griot's system. Although it's "safe", it's a wee bit too safe for me. I.e. - I started using their #3 polish...took eons to get any scratches out... then #2 took light years...and then #1 still took too much of my lifetime. I've since abandoned my Griot's polishes and went with Menzerna which provided better results in a much much more reasonable timeframe.

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The main difference between the two is the results from Menzerna are legitimate. The Griot's system is a good one for the DIYer that is starting out and wants a finish that will have more shine and color, but is not concerned about getting swirls and scratches out. In another word, the polishes from Griot's are safe, but not effective. Where Menzerna excels is its ability to quickly AND safely remove imperfections such as swirls, scratches, marring, etc. and it gives you legitimate results. You can test the areas polished by wiping down with isopropyl alcohol. The other great thing about Menzerna polishes is you'll only need 2 to cover most of your problems. Super Intensive Polish, SIP, and Super Finish. They have a third polish that's great, Power Finish. This polish starts as a medium polish and finishes like a fine polish. So, on lighter colored cars, you can do a single-step polish and you'll be 80-85% of the way there. Hope this helps.

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+1...no substitute for professional products that are safe too.

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Which pads to do recommend for these two. Polishing pads for both? -Shawn

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That will depend on the paint, the degree of imperfection, and your expectations. On a typical porsche with moderate to medium imperfections such as swirls and light scratches, our yellow and orange ccs with SIP and finish up with our white ccs with super finish. For more aggressive defects, and more OCD expectations, go with the purple wool, then orange, then white. Purple and orange with SIP, white with Super finish. http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...ols/Categories

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Thanks for the explanation. I'll look at these products when I'm ready to order my detailing supplies for the season!

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No problem. Glad I could help.

There seems to be a continuum on how your car looks, and the ability to keep it looking "prime." I don't anticipate that I will be able to polish my car the way an expert detailer can, even with a Flex polisher. Certainly, my trip to the detailer this spring brought a finish to my car that was stunning. It was helpful in some areas, because I put a clear bra on the car - front fenders, full hood and full front and rear bumper. Now, I need the ability to properly put on a coat of wax (even on the bra - I have been told that this is helpful to protect the plastic) and even do some light polishing of the non-bra areas of the car. In this case, I will identify some areas that have gotten scratched, and take some polish to smooth those areas out. My detailer suggests that I do 2 - 3 polishes myself during the year, and bring it to him for a full "professional" polish each spring. At that, I have a concern about polishing my way through my clear coat in a couple of years, with that much work on it. I will likely be driving this car for another 10 years (I hope) and can only imagine what might happen over that period with so much polishing. My thoughts now are to have the car professionally polished each spring, put on two coats of sealant, and then wax it every third week or so. The Porsche is obviously a small car, so I should be able to do a wash and wax in a few hours on a weekend. (I now have a collection of microfiber towels, and two buckets with grit guards - amazing how much difference the two bucket method makes!! And I "pat dry" the car, rather than wiping it, to hold down on mini scratches.) The car is a daily driver. Trying to maintain a garage queen appearance on a car that's driven daily is problematic, isn't it? Moe, I am certainly interested in your comments. larry

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Larry, we have clients that we've polished their cars 2-3 years ago and it still looks 90% of what it use to look like...and the color is black. I never understand why a car needs frequent polishing with a machine. That's treating the symptom not the problem. The problem is washing technique, products, and the environment. There are many techniques out there. Here are some highlights of what we stress to our clients: 1. Following the wash from top-down, don't drag the mitt up to wash the rest of your door if you just cleaned the rockers or lower bumper areas. 2. Another important point is wash in a linear motion. Don't wash in circles. 3. Wash using a natural australian sheepskin wash mitt. They're more expensive, but we find them to be the most gentle on paint. Have been using them for over a decade. 4. Don't dunk a dirty mitt back into a clean soap bucket. We rinse our mitt after washing each panel and rinse the panel to not let the soap dry with the dirt. 5. Use a high quality soap that won't strip the wax. The cheaper soaps don't have good ingredients in them so you find yourself waxing more often. More contact with paint surface means more possible imperfections in the paint. 6. Use the highest quality towels you can afford. There's a reason why some towels are $7-15 and others are $1-2. Quality towels offer better performance, won't damage the surface, and will last many years longer. We're still using some of our polishing towels from 5 years ago. That would translate to over a 10-15 years for you guys. There are many more things I can get into, but I've hit some of the important points. Like you, I don't think polishing 2-3 times a year with a machine is the answer. I think a proper machine polishing once a year, followed by a good hand paint cleansing and waxing a few times a year, and a proper wash routine are the answer to keeping a great car looking the part for decades.

Moe: Thanks for the comments. Yes, I agree. I think that unfortunately, the inexperienced among us (I include myself in this fraternity) do more damage to the paint by improperly washing the car. As I said, I am now using a two bucket technique (for the first time). With a sheepskin mitt, and grit guards in the buckets. If you wash your car every week, there isn't as much schmutz to drag across the surface. Even with a weekly wash, I was amazed how dirty the rinse water got. Now I will plan on replacing the water in the rinse bucket after every panel or so. It just got so grungy last time. Don't ask me why I didn't refresh the rinse water more often. The soap bucket remained clean, and the sheepskin mitt just lightly glides over the surface. With a pretty heavy "presoak," the dirt was just waiting to be lightly washed off. You have given us some good advice here. Thanks for taking the time. larry

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Glad I could help. Just keep it simple. Ditch the rinse bucket and just rinse the mitt after each panel. You'll save a lot of water and time that way.

Also a fan of the Griot's (PC) orbital for polish and wax. My soon to be gone 968 looks great. I am assuming my new-to-me '99 black C4 will too!

I totally disagree. The first time I used the Groit's orbital polisher on my black 02 Cab, I didn't notice much change. However, I noticed it wasn't worse. The second time I used the polisher, Bam what a difference! It was only my second time I used a polisher and it was beautiful. I used Groit's #3 polish and finished it off with their polisher/sealant. I took 99.9% of all my swirl marks OUT.

[QUOTE=larry47us;8434532]T My thoughts now are to have the car professionally polished each spring, put on two coats of sealant, and then wax it every third week or so. If you're going to wax every 3 weeks make sure you use a clay bar before waxing. Otherwise you will cause scratches when waxing due to the small particles that are embedded in the paint. The clay bar will give you a smooth surface to wax over. I would use a fine clay for this process as using a more aggressive clay might cause small scratches. If you are obsessive, you could follow-up the clay bar with a stage two polish (White pad/fine polish) then wax.

Since wax has no abrasives, it cannot remove embedded contaminants from the paint. A more accurate process would be to clay, polish, and wax. Claying should always be followed by a polishing, then waxing. Polishing is the most important step as it is the step where the paint's imperfections are addressed and the most impact is made. If someone is waxing every few weeks, they need to get a better quality wax or use a spray wax. Unless it's therapy and you enjoy doing the task, a proper waxing every 3-6 months, depending on the quality of wax you use and your maintenance routine, is all that's needed.

Once every 3 to 6 months huh? I have to admit there was a time I enjoyed the job but no more. I want it nice and shiney but I've got other things I'd rather do than wash. Now another question. The greenies have managed to get handwashing your car in your driveway banned here because of the soap's impact on the water system. Does having to use the agressive detergents in commercial car washes change the waxing frequency?

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Unfortunately, it's not the soap that's the issue with enviros...it's the runoff of dirt and oils from the car. Using aggressive soaps from car washes will not only wear your wax down, but it robs the paint of it's oils. If you can take it to a hand wash place that uses quality products and tools, it would be ideal. Self-serve washes are a good idea since you can bring your own products and use their water. Hope this helps.

any mobile detailers in the SF bay area????

PissedPuppy I haven't used him yet but Auto Concierge is supposed to be legit. He has a shop in Fremont I think but he also does mobile. I am gearing up for a detail in late spring early summer. If you use him let me know what you think. http://www.justwaxed.net/index.htm

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From what I understand, and read on forums, Bob is one of the best in NorCal.

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It does, thanks Moe.

To the OP, a good detailer will charge much more than $300 to properly polish the paint. There are tons of hacks out there so do you're homework. You can use the RO to touch up the car on occasion and work on your other cars or friends cars. It really is a great tool.

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Price is not the determiner of quality. I had my car buffed out by a high quality detailer for $255. But I am sure that I could have paid more and gotten results that were "hack" quality. Also, it depends on the quality of the finish currently on your car, how many and deep are the scratches, and the amount of time the detailer is going to spend working on it. My finish looked fair at the outset. He felt that a simple final polish would do wonders for it. The results are spectacular, and certainly met my expectations. He said that he would have liked to do a two stage polish. Honestly, the incremental improvement wouldn't have done anything for me, considering that this car is a DD. I felt that I was facing the law of diminishing return. Spend a lot more time for a little improvement. Not worth it at this time. larry

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From what I understand in reading this post, your detailer did a one-stage polish. If that's the case, your paint is either in amazing shape, or it's not properly corrected. 9/10 porsches we detail, always need a minimum of two stages for proper paint correction. In the rare case, your Porsche came from the factory, no one touched the car but a knowledgeable detailer, and it was maintained perfectly, can you get away with a one-stage polishing once a year. Being the devil's advocate here, would you ever take your Porsche to get an oil change at Jiffy Lube? I for one take our's to the dealer since it's an 2010 and it's too many advanced things for me to do. The reason I bring this up is, a specialist will require proper tools, extensive knowledge of YOUR automobile, proper insurance, and much more. All this requires quite a bit of time and money to perfect. At $255, by the time you back out taxes, insurance, materials, fixed costs, variable costs, etc. how much is this detailer actually paying himself and re-investing back into the business? Please don't take offense to this Larry and I mean no disrespect to your detailer. I only wish for a win-win for both of you. But, fact of the matter is, too many detailers start out charging this little, doing fine when they're by themself, but one day decide to get married, raise a family, buy a home, etc. You simply cannot run a profitable business and pay your personal and business bill on $255 a car. At the end of the day, if a proper one-stage polishing and exterior detail is done, it would take about 6 hours. I hope it wasn't a quick 2-3 hour job since in that span of time, it takes two of my techs to have washed, dried, clayed, and finished taping the car for polishing. Too many times we see Porsches that were detailed improperly and the detailers are no longer in business. Just last week we got a GT3 and the clearcoat was improperly polished and we could see the buffer marks. Once we measured the paint, we realized it was polished down to a point where enough clear was taken down that we couldn't do a proper paint correction. I hope a little education and informing the consumer helps many of you avoid these situations.

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+1 Afshin. You know first hand how much time and effort it takes to do a proper detail.

Moe: I don't think that my detailer skimped on the service. He has a very low overhead operation, and I was limited in how much I was willing to spend. Couple that with the fact that this car is a DD, and having a garage queen polish didn't make sense. Here is a thread on the detail that I had done (don't know if you missed it.) Detail Larry's Turbo . Ivan had wanted to do a two stage polish in a couple of areas, but I was cash constrained for now, and the results looked wonderful. He admitted that he spent a bit more time on the hood than normal, because I was getting a clear bra put on. What you say about people "low bidding" their work is true, but it's not up to me to tell him what he needs to charge for his work. I hope that he's successful and continues to do work. He's a fair guy who does good quality work. I am not sure what I'm going to do from here on out. I am washing it weekly, and waxed it last weekend. The car still looks great, and as long as I'm extra careful in the wash and dry department, it should make it through this year. Then I can decide what I want to do next year. But for right now, I don't think that I'll be buying a polisher. larry

Everyone should have one of these.... If you have a hammer, you need a RO.

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Larry I detail on the side and like Moe has already mentioned I rarely see a car that doesn't need two steps to have it done correctly. You mentioned that you were financially constrained at the time you had your car polished and the detailer you used tried to limit the work performed to stay within your budget. If he was allowed to do the job to his level he would have performed a second step and the results would have been better as he already stated. That second step would have added at least another $150 to the cost. I typically don't polish DD's since it's not worth spending the time and $$, so I agree with your thinking. I personally haven't polished my 2 year old DD for the same reasons. The cars I polish are typically show/garage queen cars which are worth spending the money and time to generate the best results possible. I charge by the hour and usually give a range of how many hours it will take to complete a car. Costs can range from $500 to $1500 depending on what is being done. A full concours level detail can cost even more, especially if the customer wants the engine detailed.

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Sorry to revive this thread from a few weeks ago, but does this recommendation still hold for using No Rinse wash solutions? Thanks-Shawn

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Yes. You can use a high quality lambs wool wash mitt and high quality mf towel with ONR. http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...skin%2C/Detail http://www.glisteningperfectionstore...owel%2C/Detail