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YOUR RESEARCHNA-TT 996 3.4 build
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lack of
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This I feel is due to the lack of that extra knowledge and level of effort to iron out these aspects.
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Suggestion
Any monkey with the given software can input values, and with little knowledge and theory can even read a wideband on a dyno and adjust a/f and ignition timing accordingly to some degree.
Leading evidence: 'lack of' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'lack of' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust a/f and ignition timing accordingly' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I'm running the 3.6 crank/rods in my 99' 3.4 race car.
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I can tell you the majority of the cost of a "well" tuned turbo kit is in the r&d tuning area which takes the most amount of time(assuming factory ecu is used).
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Adjust a/f and ignition timing accordingly
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Suggestion
Any monkey with the given software can input values, and with little knowledge and theory can even read a wideband on a dyno and adjust a/f and ignition timing accordingly to some degree.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I can tell you the majority of the cost of a "well" tuned turbo kit is in the r&d tuning area which takes the most amount of time(assuming factory ecu is used).
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Suggestion
Per my post, I don't know anyone using aftermarket ECU's on a 996 on this side of the pond for FI hence the reason why it's even more difficult to crack the factory ecu for the DIY'er.
totally about the skills of the resources available
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Suspected cause
Sounds like the issue is totally about the skills of the resources available, for me, this is the easiest part of turbo charging, for others it seems to be the hardest.
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39 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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I want to squeeze a little more power out of my 996. When I say I little I'm talking somewhere around 100whp more. Has anyone on here built up their own turbo kit to use on the early 996 that would like to share their thoughts? I'm thinking of picking up two KKK K26 Turbos, Mazda 323 intercoolers, piping and what not just to get started. I'd also like to know if anyone knows of a good location to tap into for my oil feed lines.
Canton makes sandwich adapters that go between the oil filter and the block to allow input and output from the oil system. They are normally used for Accusump installs.
Plumbing is the easy part compared to ecu tuning and management. I've built a half dozen turbo kits previously for BMWs, Honda, and Subarus but I will not touch the Porsche motor. Too expensive to replace and the ECU is relatively unknown to tinker with.
Please don't go the ghetto route with bigger injectors and rising rate afpr. Even then you still have to find a way to adjust timing.
Best of luck if you're brave enough to go down this route.
Why not just buy a turbo car? One problem with trying to turbo charge a regular 996 911 is where do you put the aftercoolers?
I've seen high mile turbo cars for under $30k and cars with mileage between 30-60k in the $30s and $40k range.
The 3.4 has the weakest, thinnest cylinder walls of any Porsche engine so the 1st step is to reinforce the cylinder walls with billet sleeves, while you are in there install a 3.6 crankshaft so you end up with 3.8 litres. At this point if you want more power the engine can take it.
Byprodriver, I also thought that the 3.6 crank was the way to go, if you were rebuilding a 3.4 engine. I believe that I read on Jake Raby's site or in one of his posts, that the 3.6 crank will not work in a 3.4 engine because the oil passages are not compatable. Did I misread his information? Do you know something different from personal experience? Thanks for any information that you can provide. It would be nice if we could buy a stronger aftermarket crankshaft for our cars to allow for greater displacement.
Its actually all pretty much easily done to be honest. I wouldnt use KKK K26 turbos, extremely old tech. I would grab a couple of Garrett GT28's with internal WG's.
The ECU stuff is the easiest part, just reflash tuning on the dyno.
The hardest part really is the intercooling, a water to air setup will be the logical choice, maybe a PWR unit.
Lol, care to explain?
Do you know how many tuners/people have the Porsche ECU figured out? You do realize that tuning on the dyno mainly gets you WOT conditions and lacks the granular level to do part throttle mapping and daily driving conditions such as temp and humidity. Granted if you leave enough of safety buffer in your tune, these areas might not have that much of effect.
Have you ever tuned a car before?
I can tell you the majority of the cost of a "well" tuned turbo kit is in the r&d tuning area which takes the most amount of time(assuming factory ecu is used).
I agree with some the plumbing and Turbo's is the easiest and the weakest link is the tune and since it would be custom it will be pricey and a selected few tuners can do it. Building it was fun however if I did it again I would just buy the kit. GL
I completely agree. This is a baseline tune of my SC custom tune that is out of tune and really needs to be complete idle thru WOT to be safe in my opinion. Here is a link to some tuning problems.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...problem-s.html
I'm glad you're taking this in good stride. Fun for me would be if I had another Porsche I could drive while I spend the next year or two sorting it out on a second car on whatever weekends I'm free or feel like tinkering. Oh and I would probably have to go through a few wideband sensors since those have limited life and build a laptop holder on the passenger side on an almost permanent basis. Not to mention wire up a knock sensor AND drive around with headphones because I'm OCD like that. I would also probably end up spending a good amount of gas money driving it around with various conditions and environments to further refine the map.
Not worth it and I completely agree in buying a kit the first time around for some thing like this.
If only there was a plug and play version of one of the many "auto-tune" ecu's out there for our cars... Then we still have to deal with the anti-theft and coding issues as well...
I'm not saying the 3.6 crank is cost effective since it only adds 200cc & you have to have the crank carrier & shorter rods also. I'm saying you end up with a better engine than bolting a Turbo onto a stock engine if you want a 30% power increase like the OP does. I believe Jake Raby has billet cranks available.
Do you know how dyno's work? And the tables in ECU's? The WOT comment is a little odd.
Yup, I have tuned a car, using an aftermarket ECU, my flatmate has a dynapac hub dyno.
Its the easiest part because you just pop the car on the dyno, and enter values into timing and fueling tables plus other parameter tables like excel fueling and over run and rev limit and you get the point... reflashing an ECU will run around $2k depending on he process (live mapping versus save and run incremental changes mapping). Or about the cost of one of the two new turbo's
Nothing wrong with buying a kit if you cant do the work yourself... the cost is unreasonable though in my view.
I have not tuned a 911 before, only a 944 turbo, Supra, Levin, and Trueno. When did you start tuning 996's? Keen to hear your experiences.
Yes I know how dyno's work. I've done several runs on them(mostly Dynojet roller and a couple dynapacks) and tuned cars in the past. Hub based dyno's like Dynapack will allow you to emulate and tune part throttle conditions to a degree but most good tuners knows that the maps still need to be further refined on the road. I've never just been satisfied at tuning something on the dyno and leaving it as is, especially if you want a really refined ride that these kinds of cars deserve.
You also mention you used an aftermarket ECU. Per my post, I don't know anyone using aftermarket ECU's on a 996 on this side of the pond for FI hence the reason why it's even more difficult to crack the factory ecu for the DIY'er.
I love your blanket statement about just popping it on the dyno and enter in "some" values. I think you are oversimplifying things there.
If it were that easy, there would've been several more people on here that would've already done it.
yup semi-ontopic , for those of us that need to pass emissions, we need to stick w\ the DME , id love to get more options for DME tuning
w\out emissions, id prefer standalone and E85
Amen with higher resistance to detonation allowing more aggressive timing, it gives a bit more safety blanket around tuning. Especially for those that aren't familiar around the characteristics of a particular motor.
Plus we live around Corn Fields and can get it for free. ( I wish)
Ok so your point is now that the Dynapack isnt just about tuning WOT, like I said, and that you should do drivability tuning off the dyno, yup, agreed.
You can tune the Bosch ME7.2 easily with ODBII connectivity. You dont have to use an aftermarket ECU, I wasnt suggesting aftermarket, I only said I have mucked about with aftermarket ECU's. You would use the stock ECU as I previously mentioned, its not for the DIY'er, not sure how many DIY'ers have their own dyno and cables and software to tune.
I am not at all interested in FI as its mostly pointless since I have a track car already, and since most people would generally just buy a turbo, over spending money having other people convert NT to NATT, then maybe that explains why people dont DIY something up, not the fact it cant be done. I didnt say it was easy, I said the easiest part, from my perspective, is the ECU side of things. You can take that and spin it into the whole project is easy if that suits your argument.
Incidently, I put a Lexus V8 into a Supra and it was NA, converted it to turbo, and from auto to manual... that wasnt hard, but cant speak for the 996 as I have not done it yet
It could also be that all you OZ's and Kiwi's have dynos on practically every block and do crazy things down there that us Yankees do not. I definitely think you guys are further ahead of the tuning curve down there.
Still remember watching "Fast 4's and Rotaries" over 15 years ago and I thought you guys were crazy with the Evos and Cosmos back then. First turboed 20b triple rotary I've ever seen. And thanks to you guys, I actually contemplated on swapping over an Sr20Det to an e30.
If you guys know something we don't up here, please share it.
I'm running the 3.6 crank/rods in my 99' 3.4 race car. I've got decked 3.4 heads & cams with the cable TB (FVD's enlarged TB). Dyno'd at 304 on a Dyno Dynamics machine so probably 325 or more on a Dynojet. I'm running it choked down to 292 and it still has incredible torque off the corners. I'm going to try a 2.5 Boxster TB on it to see if I can get it down in the 270's for a lower weight/whp class....
There are a few dyno's but no more than usual I wouldnt think, though its mroe about their capability than the number of them. I guess we are just brought up on ECU's where you guys were mostly Carby's! I have been thinking about chucking my car on the dyno with the ODBII tuning to prove a point, but there isnt anything in it for me lol Since my car is a cruiser and not for modding...
Not sure what point you are gonna prove? Any monkey with the given software can input values, and with little knowledge and theory can even read a wideband on a dyno and adjust a/f and ignition timing accordingly to some degree.
However, there is a difference between "so so" tunes and great factory like tunes in terms of daily driveability,reliability, and efficiency on aftermarket FI diy tunes. I've seen my share of "so so" tunes and only a handful of factory like tunes from the DIY community.
This I feel is due to the lack of that extra knowledge and level of effort to iron out these aspects. I can't tell you how many tunes I've seen with people just dumping fuel at 11:1 with very conservative ignition timing. Sure the car runs "ok" with certain rpm ranges but idles like crap, wastes gas, and doesn't produce as much power as it could.
I see two hurdles here for the DIYer(at least in the US).
1. Lack of user friendly software to interface with the Porsche ECU that is available to the DIYer
2. Dynotime starting around $100-125 per hour on the avg. can add up fast
This isn't a Honda or Toyota crowd and I would think Porsche owners would expect nothing but the best.
Come back to us if you find any DIY user friendly software for our ECU's or manage to extract 15-20whp from your existing motor.
No DIYer will be able to tune their own cars without a dyno, which not longer makes it a DIY job for most people, a wideband is only one tool for tuning, there is also knock and EGT to consider.
Sounds like the issue is totally about the skills of the resources available, for me, this is the easiest part of turbo charging, for others it seems to be the hardest.
I beg to differ, dyno's are rented out all the time by the hour by DIY'ers here. I've seen several Honda/Toyota/BMW guys that don't do this professionally but try to DIY a tune themselves.
I agree that you need egt and knock to fully round out the tuning process. Per my previous post, I also have a set of headphones in addition to knock sensor because I'm ocd. I can understand that dyno shops will not be able to retrofit an egt probe on the hottest exhaust manifold bank but if you are DIY, you owe it to yourself to tap one into your setup. It's nice to know when you're approaching 1600 degrees.
I agree with you in regards to the level of difficulty whether it be on the tuning side or fabrication will be dependent on the individuals talents or resources available to them.
But right now, there is very scarce resources and software for the DIY in the Porsche market.
You can rent a dyno here as well, but its hardly in the skill set of 99.9% of people to be able to operate them effectively.
Right so all you need is the ODBII connectivity software? I know someone that has it for the Bosch ME7.2 ECU. Which I think is the 3.4 motors ECU from 2000?
When you rent a dyno here, there is usually a dyno operator that you work with if that's what you mean.
Please do share if you know of the software. That would be one step closer to do DIY tuning. The right drivers help as well since some software need specific drivers.
JR Gordon, thanks for answering my question. Does that mean that 3.8 is attainable with a 3.4 engine....provided you use a different crank, rods, and cylinder sleeves?
i don't know how far the OP got w/ this project idea but i'm about 1/2 to 1/3 of the way there.
What I do have is this:
3.4 engine getting iron sleeves w/ larger bore (either 99mm so i can use facotry 997 head gaskets or 100mm w/ custom headgaskets made)
3.4 crank (custom grind stroke slightly longer than the 3.6 996 crank shaft)
3.6 pauter rods
heads are getting 3 angle valve job with port and polish
EBS springs w/ titanium retainers
Dual pump fuel system for e85
single turbo setup w/ t4 60-1 (will posibly change out to a gtx40 or gtx42r)
ARP2000 Head Studs
ARP2000 Main Bolts
Whats up in the air is this:
piston - arias or je (both ceramic/mly coating), 9.5:1 or 9.0:1, 99mm or 100mm
camshaft (stay with stock or get a custom grind)
clutch (twin metalic disc aasco/tilton)
Stock TB 74mm or do the ipd plenum with a 997 GT3 TB 82mm
