Experience going from Audi to Porsche

Alright fellas please be easy on me. I've only had my 996 for a little over two months so I am by no means an authority on Porsche but I previously owned two different Audi A4 Quattro 2.0Ts. One was purchased new in '06 and the other was a CPO'd '08 purchased in '09. They were both awesome. The turbos provided 200 HP with little to no lag and were balanced and throwable like luxury go karts. When I returned this summer from living in Italy for three years (with just our family car), I decided I wanted 300+ HP in my next car but did not want to blow a bunch of money on an S4, not just for economical reasons but also because my former Audi Club buddies were slowly but surely moving from S4s to A4s due to the power to weight advantage of the A. In the search for my third A4, I ran into an ad for my current 99' 996. I couldn't pass it up. The 911 has been on my bucket list. So I now own it and like it a lot but I don't love it. I keep comparing the dynamics of the driving experience to the Audi. Granted I'm aware that it is an apples to oranges comparison; you can't compare a front engine AWD turbo 2.0 liter car to a rear engine RWD 300 hp car. I was expecting more raw driving dynamics from the Porsche but the car is almost bipolar. Around town driving is almost no fun at all. The car seems like it wants to rev to 5000 RPMs or it wants to go back home and pout in the garage. Shifting hard and trying to throw it around is great if you have to room to unwind some of the horses but the shifting doesn't ever feel like the car is moving through the gears with fluid authority. It feels like the car is never quite happy with the RPMs as much as I try to rev match the shifts. It always seems like I'm holding the RPMs too high before the shift or letting the clutch out early no matter how I drive it. Important to know: 1999 996 C2 with 30k, manual trans Purchased the vehicle in Plano, Texas from a Caddilac dealer Vehicle received a PPI from an Indy Porsche mechanic and a full inspection from my local Porsche dealership - result was a perfectly clean bill of health from both. The vehicle is almost in mint condition. I just accomplished the 30k maintenance from the local Porsche dealer. I've read the threads about replacing the clutch spring (Home Depot mod). I'm not convinced this is the solution for me yet but I'll keep am open mind. I'm mostly curious as to : - maybe I just don't know how to drive this thing correctly (possible). But, I've driven classic Italian cars with nonsynchronous transmissions than I learned to throw around like a pro in 20 minutes. - maybe there is a problem with my trans (doubtful) - I am a former Audi owner and must stop comparing the experiences (I'll buy that) - maybe other converts from great cars on this forum have had the same experience?

I think its more of a personal taste and experience, I've owned quite a few cars myself and liked each one for what it was. But If I were to get rid of my car the only other car I would get will be a turbo.

You're gonna need to post a video or something - I don't understand the issue. My '99 996 loves to run from 4K to redline, and I don't have any problem getting the tail to wag if that's the goal. Does your car have PSM? If it does, that will ruin your fun. Turn it off. Ask your indy if he drove it, or merely inspected it. Any Porsche mechanic worth his salt ought to be able to tell if the car's running properly with a 2-minute test drive. Since you're accustomed to a smaller motor with a turbo that needs spool to make power, I assume you've got no issues keeping the RPMs up, and that's where all the 996 fun is found. Weird. Are you hanging onto unnecessary habits from your Italian transmission days like double-clutching? Other than the occasional complaint of second-gear popout, the 996 six-speed is fine...mine's been flawless.

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5Chan, I agree the car is happiest above 5000 RPMs. I admit that I love that about it. It's like it wakes up and goes "oh, now you want to party", and then digs into the HP. Thats the fun part. The way it goes for gear to-gear will probably need to be demo'd on video. I'll see what I can do. I do have PSM and Ill have to turn it off to see if it helps. I used to turn that off on my Audi also. My Indy drove it and said it was fine but I don't think he pushed it that hard because after a spirited drive home from signing the paperwork a guy slammed on his brakes at a yellow light causing me to brake hard. All of a sudden my horn self-actuated. It turns out I had a worn grommet that would not stop the airbag from actuating the horn on hard braking. The dealership replaced it, but I started to wonder if the Indy took it through it spaces or not. I use the car as an everyday driver though my work is five minutes away. The short commute is regulated to 25 MPH since my office is right outside of my neighborhood. Since this has been the majority of my day to day driving, I've just noticed that the car doesn't drive well at slow speeds working in the first three gears at low RPM. When I get the chance on the weekend to push the 0 to 60 envelope, I seem to always have an issue from 2nd to third and from third to fourth. The best way to describe it is that it was jerky from gear to gear unless finessed just right. The doesn't seem to be the same level of refinement in my Porsche's transmission as in the Audi but that might have been intended and by design.

I became part of my 99 within an hour of purchase, I just love everything about it so much. I only go over 5000rpm when spirited driving

I agree with the whole clutch/ transmission feel. I think a large part of it is the sloppy accelerator pedal feel. It needs to be sharpened up a bit, and doesn't feel consistant. I've read a good fix for that is the Sprint Boosters. Compared to other electronic accel. cars (BMW's) this car feels soo sloppy with the pedals. The clutch pedal felt very vauge to me as well... I am used to much more clutch feel. Removing the clutch helper spring on the clutch pedal helped this considerably, but I had to re-learn how to drive the car. (just realized you have a 99 so you don't have an E-gas pedal) so the accel. pedal shouldn't apply to you. 9/10 of the cars I've owned have been manual. The 996 was the vaugest feeling of all... even with a brand new clutch! As far as handling characteristics... I agree as well. The 996 is not a very exciting car at all, compared to other "sporty" cars in the price range. The overall grip and handling is great, but once again it doesn't have any "rawness" at all. A stiffer refreshed suspension (European sport suspension) should help this a lot, and maybe some other small tweaks. Even just having the gundo hack done on my exhaust increased the driving pleasure dramaticly with the car. But overall, I'm still working to acheive the feeling I desire with the 996. I'm comparing to multiple BMW M3's I've owned, and I'm dissapointed with many of the comparisons I've noticed. My best word for describing how my 996 feels to me... Numb. Comparing: Both my recent E36 and E46 M3's, even my older 944 I had rev-matching down perfectly. Every downshift was smooth as butter, and I had the amount of blip needed memorized by feel, and sound. With the 996, even after owning for almost a year, I'm STILL sometimes sloppy with this. I don't feel the same connection... hard to explain.

OP, what you're describing isn't consistent with my 996, so it might bear some additional investigation. Does the clutch slip at all (floor it in 4th @ 60MPH)? When my clutch was on the way out, I only had about an inch of useful clutch travel, so shifting was a little touchy until the new clutch went in. I'm sure you didn't mean that you were actually using 3rd and 4th gears for a 0-60 run - but if you are, you don't need to be. You can blow happily through 60+ in second gear. If you have very little clutch left and you're shifting at very low RPMs, I can start to imagine how getting the shifts right would be tough. If you're manhandling the shifter, that can make it worse. When downshifting, a blip of heel-toe can make the shift perfect. I'm no pro driver, but Mrs. Schnell thought the 996 was equipped with rev-matching downshifts and was surprised to learn that it was just heel-toe and decent timing. So, I know the car CAN be very, very smooth. Might be the car, might be the driver, it's probably a little of both. Good luck... keep us posted.

When I first bought mine, I was frustrated with the clutch, but after awhile I've grown to love it. Also, I wonder if your less than stellar shift quality has something to do with a fluid change and/or motor mounts. Both are cheap and made a huge difference with mine, also a 99 that had 47K when I did the mounts. They were definitely sagging a bit.

Regarding the "lack of authority", 996 MK1 is not a very fast car. So, don't expect it to be mindblowing from the dig. Around town 996 is anemic, as most of the power comes after 3k RPM. Modern day V6 Camry and Accord will take 996 from the stoplight. Your very low mileage can also be a culprit. 30k miles on a 14 year old car means it sat all its life. I would change all fluids (tranny, coolant, clutch, brake), clean the MAF, change the plugs and run a few Techron fuel injection cleaner bottles through the gas tank.

Audi A4 vs. '99 911 Your analysis makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe you just aren't a car guy...

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FACT CHECK 2012 Toyota Camry SE (V6) 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1 http://www.zeroto60times.com/Toyota-0-60-mph-Times.html 1999 Porsche 911 Carrera 0-60 mph 4.9 Quarter mile 13.3 http://www.zeroto60times.com/Porsche...mph-Times.html OP, I am close to you. Car is down right now but we can meet in the future so you see what 3.6 X51, suspensions and other goodies bring to the car

Sounds like you need a 997 short shifter in your car. I think that will remedy a lot of the "numb" feeling you're experiencing from the transmission. Since you came from Audis, I'm assuming you're familiar with the JHM shifter? The 997 factory short shift is the 996 equivalent to that.

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RPM, My point is exactly to point out the fact that an A4 was much more engaging. I understand the implied absurdity of the comparison. It was intended to make my point but also was grounded in my personal experience since I went from an A4 to a 996 All, I just got back from picking up my daughter from school in the P-car. In the process of pushing it a bit and paying attention to the cars feedback a bit more, I think I've come up with what is going on. My theory is that the difference in feel is the fact that the A4 I'm comparing it to is a newer e-throttle vehicle that is constantly changing the dynamics of the throttle response to the driver's driving habits. The '99, has a hard wired throttle and maybe I need to get accustomed to the analog nature of the response. This could all be just an e-throttle vs cable throttle experience.

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Sounds like a plan.

Did you get to test drive the 996 before you bought it? Wondering if you got a tired engine, but with the 30K reported miles, I wonder-

I think you need to drive the car more and keep them revs higher. It took a good while to get used to keeping the revs higher. At 25mph you need to be thinking of dropping into 3rd from 2nd gear. That 3rd gear if pushed can take you over 100mph no problem (if needed). Not that I drive like that. I don't think about 4th gear until I hit 45/50mph. So around town its mainly 2nd and 3rd for me in a 35mph zone. No thinking of saving on gas for me with this car. I must admit that 1st gear taking off is not the fastest off the mark and sliding a clutch starting in 2nd is not my way of driving. I never miss a gear either up or down the box but tend to have the revs a lot higher than I would on any other car. The 996 is a lot happier being driven with high revs. I will not consider 6th under 60 mph on the flat. Blow some **** out of the engine hard high rev driving for a month and tell us again your comparison with an Audi. Porch and Audi should not come in the same sentence. Shame on you haha. By the way get yourself a Police radar. You are going to need one if you drive the car the way it was designed to be driven. Higher revs tend to save your brake pads somewhat because of engine compression which the flat 6 is famous for. Don't forget. Only use the highest grade Gas.

I had similar feelings when I test drove my 02 996 C2. My daily driver was (still is) a 2012 WRX and my previous DD was a 08 335xi. Told the sales manager the 996 didn't feel as fast. It did however feel different.......better somehow. So I bit. In the past 5+ months I have put 6000 miles on the car. Definitely as fast or faster off the line than the BMW or WRX. Both of which I have to believe are much quicker than a A4 2.0T. But if you drive the 996 "lazily" it can feel like a bit of a dog. Not unlike the WRX. Both hit their stride above 3500 rpm. I have also come to realize that the attraction of driving a 996 (and I assume any 911) is that you feel more connected to the driving experience. its not about straight line speed. Over the last months I have also learned to keep it 1 gear lower than I think it should be in. Have to say that I do agree that making consistently smooth gear changes, especially during aggressive deceleration/acceleration, takes a bit more attention. But when you get it right your rewarded. Given that MKI and MKII acceleration numbers are not that different it would seem there may be a performance issue with your car if it truly feels that slow. Good luck, enjoy and cross it off your bucket list.

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No test drive. I bought it sight unseen while overseas. I probably need to drive someone another 996 and compare notes.

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Camry is automatic, 911 is manual. 95% of drivers will never get close to the track time with manual on the street. You want to dispute this? Go to your local race track or any street and see which cars run fastest consistent times. Manual cars they are not, and you won't find any Porsche drivers mastering the 5k clutch slip launch. More fact check for you: Accord V6 Manual . 13.4 quarter mile. Accord V6 automatic 13.8 quarter mile. Don't be arrogant about 996 performance. 996 is not a straight line rocket. Average driver of manual 996 will be lucky to get 5.5 seconds 0-60 time. Here is a 400hp mustang racing my 260HP Acura. Fact check? Acura TL vs Ford Mustang - YouTube Here is the same Acura accelerating from inside. It will do same 0-90 runs all night long. In the video car is at 169k miles. 0-60 mid 6 seconds. And this is a 10 year old car. All it takes for 996 manual is to spin on launch and they just lost to honda with 200k miles. I love my 996, but it is not a straight line screamer. 2003 Acura TL Type-S Acceleration. - YouTube

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I'm sorry, unless perhaps your Porsche's tires were filled with cement by the previous owner, there is no comparison. I have driven more modern and powerful 'sports sedans' than an A4 (335i, E63, CTS-V) and none came even close to the engagement and driving dynamics of my 996. So unless there is a fairly significant mechanical problem with your 996...

Looks like op put his on the market. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=370711244517

Damn, harsh.

All in good fun.

911.... the motor hangs over the back axle and they handle funny. You either love this or you don't. sorry

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That would make a great avatar for someone on the page. I already have my cartoon avatar or I would use that one in a heart beat haha.

OP...I had a similar experience when I got my 996. I was a little underwhelmed by the the performance until I realized that I was shifting way too early. It felt "normal" to me to shift at around 4k RPM but the best experience in these cars is in the 5-6.5K RPM range. If you get over 5500 RPM you will see what I mean. There's a reason redline starts at the big 7 on the dial. To me, each gear essentially has 2 speeds. Some nice people on this board are fond of saying that these cars "like to be driven hard" or "drive it like you stole it". Common sense tells me that the more revs an engine runs, the more wear and tear it will experience, so I tend not to push it all the time. As my DD, I usually wind up to 4K RPM or so (on city streets, what's the point of going higher) and try to keep the tach around 3500. But, its a blast to let it out on the occaisional freeway on ramp. Like any "new" car there is a learning curve and the 996 is certainly no exception. Enjoy it for what it is and have a blast learning what it really can do.

Agreed Gonzo. It's not just common sense...it's a fact that running a machine at 100% capacity shortens its life. Maintenance formulas exist that help calculate maintenance frequency based on usage severity. One of the (many) reasons that diesels last so long is that they redline at low RPM - like 5K instead of 7 or 8K. I've read plenty of Porsche-specific theories about why keeping the RPMs high can prevent specific issues - like lugging the motor causing crank bearing/cylinder/connecting rod/intermediate shaft damage. I think there may be some truth to these theories, but there's a huge difference between driving the car in an appropriate RPM range and "driving it like [you stole it]/[like the Dr. intended]/[your favorite euphemism for ragging your car out]." An additional question for OP: has your car has been equipped at some point with a light-weight flywheel? The flywheel helps maintain engine speed during shifts; if a LWFW has replaced the dual-mass flywheel, the engine will lose RPMs quickly when the clutch is depressed, making smooth shifts much more difficult.

I find the 996 C2 with the M030 suspension to "feel" plenty raw in day to day driving. Even after 6 years and 60k miles of driving the C2 it can definitely get my attention and my adrenalin pumping. I've been able to shift in a manner where more than a few passengers actually asked if the car was an automatic - that did sort of stun me - like what? you don't see me moving that stick between the seats? I do believe this is the result of having the great fortune to go for an impromptu ride along with a top instructor during a DE event. I was so impressed with her driving skills yet somewhat confused by the manner in how she shifted. After the run I did ask about the shifting and remember commenting that I could double clutch in the time she spent changing gears and asked if she thought her time would improve if she just shifted faster. That got quite a chuckle and a reply similar to "oh grasshopper". What also stood out in my mind was how absolutely smooth and fluid all of her driving inputs were. That one ride changed the way I drive the 996. I rarely need to rev match on an upshift and I rarely trounce on the throttle. The first time I allowed my son to drive the car I basically had to teach him that this was not a drag car with a gear cruncher tranny that would respond well to flat shifting. He still just had to ask if he could "chirp" the tires shifting from 1st to 2nd - I told him I didn't know but I was confident that Porsche didn't build the car to impress the masses with tire chirps. He drives it quite well these days. And I think the term "lugging" is somewhat misused these days. I can easily cruise below 3,000 rpm and the engine is not "lugging". Now the C4S is quite different - it tends to be more polite than the C2 and I will admit that it seems as if I have to push it at times to wake it up.

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I got a chuckle out of it. That said my first was a Ferrari:

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Good post. Thanks everyone who provided constructive feedback. I have a lot of experience driving different vehicles on roads all around the world. My ego convinced me that I should be able to just turn the key in my Porsche and get it to do what I want from the start. I guess the mystique of this car is that you have to conform to it and the way it wants to be driven. I'm convinced now that I'm not driving it correctly. I think I will have to eat my pride and chalk my disappointment to unrealistic expectations.

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Good points. Recently a friend who auto crosses an S2000 drove my car and struggled. I thought he was just being cautious...

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You can DO IT,...but the ability to "throw around" a RWD car with a deffinent rear weight bias and massive rubber sticking to the roadbed is a hellua lot more difficult vs a RWD front engine.....

I wonder if the OP has a short shifter installed. I had a B&M installed for a month or two and not too many of my shifts were smooth during that time. I went back to the stock 996 shifter and things were better (I know right). I just installed a stock 997 shifter though and couldn't be more pleased with the feel. It's a little bit shorter and the metal side plate gives it a nice solid feel. Other than that - we're still not sure if the OP has a problem with his car or not. From his description he sounds like the type of guy who would know how to use a good Porsche, and we all know these cars work pretty good right out of the box, so I suspect something (or a whole bunch of small things) aren't quit right. For me personally, the feel of a car is critical and it's all in the setup. Besides the 997 shifter I have installed RS motor mounts, the Gbox detent, a lightweight flywheel and a Sachs sport clutch. My gearbox and throttle response feel like the pope himself blessed them. My straight line speed is nothing to be ashamed of either. Yes, I have the 3.6 variocam plus but from what I hear the 3.4 has its charm as well. OP - start massaging that car and it will start to feel like you think it should. You'll need to spend some money. Not all that much, but some. Start with some coil-overs and sway bars. After that I'd recommend stiffer motor mounts (WEVO or Porsche RS) and a stock 997 shifter. Of course before any of that, take the car to someone who knows these engines and have them verify it's running correctly. PS - I have an Audi as well. A stock 2004 A6 All-Road with the twin turbo 2.7 and a 6 speed manual. When people ask me how I like it I tell them - it's no Porsche.

OP - Track it for a year, then see what you think.

Get it on some country lanes where you know there are no cops and drive it like you just stole it. Don't miss any gears up and down the box and let the compression slow you up when needed and hammer it out of the bends. You probably wont get much higher than 4th gear. You will be amazed at the 3rd gear.

All, On Saturday I participated in a local PCA meet-up and drive. I worked on keeping the revs higher through the shifts and it made a huge difference. It helped to hear the other cars and to get an idea for what their rev ranges were. Our regional Club lead has a 996 and I plan to pick his brain more about our cars. Eventually, I'd like to see if he'll let me drive his around the block so that I can compare the two and see if there is something different about mine. I'm leaning more and more to the side of the argument that I have been too cautious with my car. I think in the back of my mind I've been worrying about over revving or harming the engine somehow. Now I'm starting to drive it like "I stole it" and I'm starting to understand the difference. It still doesn't feel as refined but I am able to throw it around a whole lot more with some authority and I'm starting to get a better feel for how it wants to be driven. I'm coming around.

your 996: 258 ft-lb torque at 4,600 RPM your 08 Audi 2.0T: 207 ft-lb torque at 1,800 RPM. OF COURSE your Audi is going to feel zippier/happier/ faster in city driving.

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I was gonna say the exact thing. Plus with the eGas, this would add to even more responsiveness in the Audi, especially in the low speed, low rev situations.

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Good for you, man. The car has a rev limiter (although 99% of owners probably don't realize this) - it's not a crime to use it. Downshifting into the wrong gear and over-revving is a bad thing and should be avoided. Winding the gears out and listening to your 911 sing should NOT be avoided.