WTF? Ben Just got banned!

Now I've had my share of banging heads with Ben - he's certainly always had an opinion! (even when he's wrong!) It's a fact that this forum will loose some entertainment value without his alternative perspective. Here's hoping everyone can take a deep breath, and come back to the table.

I just got caught up with all this. Ben decided to bang heads with John D. Guess who lost...

Too bad. I often disagree with what he posts, but he was usually entertaining. Combined with the loss of BruceP, this board has just gotten a little less interesting. What we need now is a new thread on something like oil weight to change the subject...

Thanks cdodkin for starting the thread, I didn't want people think I was a gossip When I read the responce Ben gave to John , I knew it was over and done with. It was........sucks for everyone.

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Something like "My engine blew up, was it the 0W40 oil or the fact that I chose RoW M030 over PSS9?"

Ben who?

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Cold man, cold...

I am sure Ben will have a great time extolling his virtues on another forum and making people see the error of the Rennlist ways...

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Yes, I did ban Ben (Benjamin Choi). Let me use this analogy, as I spent several days last week instructing on the track… If I have a student - and tell them to "back it down a notch" - it could be for a number of factors: Slow down to regain control; think about what they are doing; or - whatever. Usually, students respond immediately to what might be considered a "warning - for your safety, or others on the track - get off the "go" pedal a bit.." If, during the same session - the first warning goes unheeded, and rather - the student presses the "go" pedal even harder - well - then I start feeling "unsafe". It's never a "good thing" to make any instructor feel unsafe and unheard. The student is usually met with yet another verbal warning - sterner, less tolerant and sends the message "back it down a notch - NOW". When that goes unheeded - it's a totally "unsafe" condition. Ben was given three warnings - and continued to press his feet harder against the "go pedal" (I believe he told me I'd "kiss" those same feet?) as he zoomed on. So, simply - he got black-flagged. This is not "hard stuff "to understand, folks. If a driver is "out of control on the track" - they may be "entertaining" to watch. But, if you are in their path - or they run you off the track and you decide leave the track because of their antics - well, that's not so "entertaining" for those folks. As an aside - who should take more responsibility? The out of control student - or the instructor who wasn't listened to, thereby allowing the student to continue his antics? After three warnings - you are pretty much headed to the "pits under a black flag". And some could argue - three warnings is two warnings too many… John D.

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Oh no, I'm really oblivious whats going on. So I was really wondering which Ben you guys were refering to. Thanks

No doubt lots of buttons have been pushed lately...okay 'jammed'.Can we still enjoy our Porsches and continue to share input and experiences from one another?

Well the few times I came across threads with Ben I felt he was an arrogant little *****, but still appreciated his point of view anyway. I have NO idea what he was banned for, but you all have to remember though that this IS John D.'s playground. If you can't play by his rules well you will suffer the consequences. I for one appreciate what John has provided here for us. Do I always agree with his decisions...NOPE. But it's his baby and I support his right to do as he pleases with it.

I've never found Ben's attitude to be entertaining. He was not amusing, he was offensive as often as he could possibly manage. He was not helpful, he was not nice. He had few redeeming qualities in his time here on Rennlist. Ben went onto my ignore list within a week of arriving here. I would occasionally check his posts to see if he was calming down and never surprised when I saw no change. In recent weeks he decided he wanted to get onto a popularlity trick and tried to be nice. Anyone who has to publicly announce that they have "turned over a new leaf" is a jackass. He didn't change, he was just playing nice, as recent posts have shown. I"m glad to have him out of here so that we can clear the air and have Rennlist back to the fun place we've grown used to. I commented a few days ago how I was seeing less of the regulars - that's because we're all getting tired of him and posting less. I know my post rate has gone down a lot in the last month or so and his acidic attitude was part of it. I hope that the newbies that have joined in the last couple of months will now see that this behavior is not acceptable. Ben was a bad example. John just set a good example by booting him out. Bravo!

Oh boy...I have been following the Soap Opera from the sidelines. I have to admit...this has all been quite entertaining. C.

I hate to see anyone get banned; however, I hope that he takes some time to think about what has happened and why it has happened. I've been on Rennlist for several years (I joined before I bought my 993 C4S) and have seen the list go through different phases. The 996 list is going through a phase that is predictable...the cars age, the prices get more affordable, and people can afford entry to the world of Porsche who may not have been able to enter before. That is a good thing! However, because a wider (and sometimes younger) audience gains admission, you pick up a few immature posters and few bad seeds (anyone remember Joey Carrera?). Most will adapt to the Rennlist culture and become productive members. Some just won't make it and will need to move to boards where they obssess over tires, body kits, street racing, and who "owned" whom on the forum today. I wish Ben good luck in his endeavours and many years of happy motoring!

I feel Ben's banning was an over reaction. Two strong personalities, neither one would back down, only one had the trigger and he pulled it. Too bad it is not only temporary.

As a lurker for a fairly long time, John's ban of Ben (and his attitude) has finally prompted me to join Rennlist. Ready to be flamed for no pics. 2003 C4S...Pics soon!

can someone post a link to the thread

Never thought ole Ben was funny... Didn't find his immaturity engaging at all... Took away from more than he added...

Hey, you don't bite the hand that feeds you! John D works very hard to provide a fun and informative forum (which Rennlist is in spades). If there's anyone you DON'T want to annoy, it's John D! Common sense people!

I have to agree. I too never thought Ben was entertaining either. Especially if he was warned a few times, I guess it was bound to happen. I tuned him out a few weeks ago.

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Welcome, Steve-o!

Wow....I'm surprised I must say. When I had issues here a few months back, Ben was in my corner with support, along with many other posters. And for that, I applaud him. While he was a master button pusher over here on RL, I definitely enjoyed much of what he wrote. Yes, he would offend and annoy, but for some reason, many of us got a major kick out of it. Was he opinionated? He sure was, but again, I got a kick out of it. As far as his overall values here, it seems that I would somehow see eye to eye with him, although not on everything. He just "verbalized" how he felt more than others here. But I must say that one must pick his battles. I have the uttmost respect for John D., not just because he is the poppa around here, but because I think he exhibits the qualities of a true gentleman on and offline. This is by no means an attempt to kiss some butt. I've had private chats with him that have caused me to feel that way. Oh well, it is what it is. I've been on the track before, and I've seen black flags before. I was black flagged for going off track, and had to pit. After explaining things, I was allowed to go back out. Maybe over time, we'll see Ben come back out from the pit. Ben...ur still one of my peeps...lol. Peace out, Jon

While Ben's insecurities were pretty blatant in his posts and the guy rarely had a nice thing to say about anyone or anything is irrelevant. but I for one believe when invited to a party it's poor etiquette to insult the host and John D is our host.

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I often just read and do little posting but I agree with this 100% I like to think that we are all P car lovers and just here to learn and some to teach- ben chose to do neither IMO

Watching his posts was sort of like watching a train wreck. You just have to see how it is going to turn out. But after watching the blood and gore a couple of times, it gets real tired. I for one had enough. My car was only insulted twice. I though of telling him that his car looked like it was owned by a pimp, then I caught myself. Oh no, I think I just told Ben his car looked like a pimp mobile. Oh well

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Bingo.

Are we done insulting Ben while he can't respond?

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LOL...yeah, I just shook my head when I read his last response. It was obvious that John had his finger on the "ban" button for a little while--well, obvious to everyone but Ben, I suppose. When John told him to reread the post in the morning, anyone with a high school psychology class under their belt should have been able to see that that was his polite way of saying "I'll give you one more chance before I mash this button hard."

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+1, I said to myself, "oh no he didn't say that"..........

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+1 How about some tire offsets and oil weight questions?

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Couldn't agree more. I've noticed that many of the 'regulars' have either stopped posting altogether, or have drastically cut back on their posts. Ben is as Ben does - I don't know if he's the cause, but certainly contributes. He's a bratty kid with some $$$, a chip on his shoulder, and a number of insulting posts. That's NOT what this board is about. It's a board where enthusiasts can post legitimate questions and issues about their cars - without the fear of being flamed each time they post. The humor has gone out of the board in recent months - I hope we can get it back - for me, that's the fun part about Rennlist. I think John made the right call. John, is the ban 'permanent' or can a blacklisted member regain his/her good standing? Not that I'm planning anything, mind you.

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+1 I certainly have opinions about Ben's style of posting, but it seems like the best approach at this point is to let it go. Let's get back to talking about our cars, or take this to Off Topic...

OK. For those ambulance chasers out there, it's in the "It's Official, My Engine's Blown" thread. Like I've said, Orrin's a RL friend of mine and I think he saw his thread spin out of control. If he's like me and wears his feelings on his sleeve (especially after finding out he had a motor replacement staring him in the face), he probably took offense. We've forgotten about him. Read the posts and see how you would feel if it was your motor, not Bruce or Ben's. I just think several members had bad days and decided not to let certain comments go that they may otherwise had. One chose to quit and one got fired. As for me? I stay away from the personal crap. All I have to do is not respond and it stops. Luckily for me, I've been treated pretty fairly here.

Ben wanted this... he knew what he was doing and wanted to see his eulogy good and bad.

i absolutely agree with John D. that in an open forum it ok to disagree to a post, but this is not the place to insult or personally attack an individual because of what was written. This personal attack thing occurs every once in a while on some of the other sites here and i hope that John warns these individuals as well. its not fun, but actually a turn off, when you here people calling other people names here..it takes away from the enjoyment of this site..

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Sorry for the delayed reply to a good question (but, I'm trying to get Adrien back to Haiti and change all his airline reservations, as his Dad passed away unexpectedly late yesterday afternoon. BTW - if you work for American Airlines - please know your Customer Service folks are outstanding! A young gal made "emergency" changes last evening to get Adrien out to Port-au-Prince today.)... Anyway - it really isn't my decision?? Rather - it is Ben's decision - or anyone's decision who has been "black flagged"? Typically - one of three things will happen... 1- I'll see posts on other Forums about me/Rennlist - whatever - and I'm typically the devil re-incarnated; and/or 2- I'll get a flame to my admin e-mail address, sometimes litigious, sometimes not - but it's the kind of e-mail that makes you step away from the computer ; or 3- I'll get an e-mail that opens the door to let them back on. Usually, there are a few dozen e-mails sent back and forth - but, bottom line - the folks who take that approach are treated like gentlemen and we reach a common understanding. But, again - it's his choice - or anyones choice on which option they exercise? In any case - folks need to be made responsible for their actions, if you know what I mean? As an aside - banning someone is my "least favorite" part of running this site - and it has been the worst part since it started in May of 1998. So, I really don't ban folks too often (except for the SPAMBOTS - those I delight in banning ). And remember - I'm just like you - just simply a Porsche enthusiast, so I treat the site, it's members/users, visitors as I'd want to be treated. And it seems to work, I guess? If it didn't - I'd be posting this, and only I'd be reading it Anyway - great question - and again, sorry for the delayed reply..! John

Thanks John - excellent response and I think, right on mark. From #3, certainly sounds like an outed member can come to you with an explanation/apology and be considered for reinstatement, which I think is fair. BTW, I posted at 1:28 and you answered me an hour later - hardly qualifies as a delayed reply!!

^^^^ +1 well said. I hope to see him back at some point. J

It was certainly like watching a train wreck in slo mo and reminds me of an episode in my younger days. I was the hotshot at work, made the bucks, had the smarts (but not the wisdom), and stomped on some very big toes because I needed to be right just one too many times. I wasn't fired, but the local veep sent me home for a week while he decided what to do with me. It was THE turning point of my life. I got help. I hope Ben does, too.

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Gosh, people are being more polite to Ben in a thread about how his poor attitude got him banned than he was in his average post.<shrug>

Guards Red > all colors... 'nuff said.

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+1 I thought the same thing when I saw his last post. It's sad to see Bruce drop his membership and Ben banned over this. Ben and I had more than a few battles, but I think he also occasionally made some positive contributions. That being said I respect what John has built at Rennlist and Ben did not give him any room with this decision. (John gave him more than one opportunity to let it go gracefully).

I think we're all jumping to conclusions about why Ben acted the way he did on here, and I doubt any of us would like the analyses of strangers on our own personal lives. Even if much of what is being said resonates with us, I think we all need to take some of our own medicine and not speculate on or attack the real person behind the handle here, regardless of how we may have individually felt about his behavior. Personal should be off limits. He and I didn't agree on many things, and on some things we did, but I believe it's incumbent upon us to hold ourselves personally to the standards to which we would hold others.

It's funny, a few months ago I would've been all too glad to see Ben get the ax (the post in which he called a member's wife a "transvestite" always comes to mind); but then he seemed to get better and reach out to members, with the "head shots" thread and in his improved posting demeanor. So I guess I have mixed feelings now, though the banning was certainly justified by his most recent posts in the offending thread. He often comes off as a complete *******, but I bet there's a "good Joe" underneath there somewhere. Peace.

When I look back at people who have been banned over time, it seems to me that "most" get banned not for "what" they say but rather for "how" they say it. There are a lot of A-type personalities on a board like this. I think that some people really get wrapped up in certain conversations, and potentially lose perspective. Nothing wrong with a time out to think about your demeanor. A ban is not the end of the world. The person is still alive and free to think and do whatever he or she chooses. They just can't say it at Rennlist, at least for the time being. Now, when a moderator gives you a hint and you choose not to listen, that is the same as asking for a time out, just like when we were all kids and pushed mommy, daddy or teacher just one step too far . . .

I've never been amused or entertained by Ben. While I guess it's too bad someone can't take warnings seriously and they have to be banned, I certainly can't say I'm sorry he's not here. He's always arrogant, condescending, and can't stop making inflammatory remarks. Just a punk and he always got under my skin - despite me trying to just take the high road and not respond or get into an argument with him.. it's just a message board afterall - and I shouldn't let some random internet avatar **** me off - but he somehow managed to. I think the 996 board should rejoice in the glory of Ben's departure. He'll be back though - under a different name and ip address.. but I'm sure he won't be able to keep his identity hidden for long. Won't be long until he'll let slip about some expensive bar he went to while in West Hollywood, or his 5k rims, or one of the other few things he bragged about.

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The difference here is that once one posts on a PUBLIC forum, it's no longer "personal"...so if norms of common public civility & decency are ignored, the consequences are to be expected. The moderators are simply holding everyone to a stated standard of decency. PMs are personal, posts are not. Certainly a Porsche board ("excellence is expected") shouldn't be a repository for the lowest common denominator, behaviorally or otherwise. We're already forced to deal with this all too often in American society these days...shouldn't Rennlist serve as a respite from the tyranny of the rude?

I always believe in showing respect and expect that in return...and oh..don't go about pushing buttons..specially of message board Administrators.

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I've gotta agree with this... if you look at other forums here at Rennlist it's the same deal - the more affordable the car, the more like the wild west the discussion becomes. I've noticed the influx of younger members and linked it to the decline in the amount of respect shown for one another. There are some members that might defend Ben, but in my mind they should not, as they're showing more respect for him than he ever showed for others. Banning people is never fun. I'm an admin on another Porsche forum and it's never fun to be the bad guy that has to lay down the law. The people on hte receiving end never realize that they brought the action upon themselves and paint you out to be the devil. A mirror is a wonderful tool of reflection.

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Yea - it's about that - but it is a whole lot more..??? Today - my PMs are somewhat daunting over this episode. And if I take a minute to synthesize them - here is where they are coming from.. We have a lot of folks on Rennlist. The forums have what - about 61,000+ folks - and the e-mail list have about that same number? That doesn't count the "site visitors" who have not registered - they just read/watch - and ask themselves - "Do I dare register?". As I type this - there are over 200 of those folks, on-line - right now... Most of my day today has been spent apologizing. Why? It's simple.... When one of you - a single person - member, user, visitor - I don't care which - feels they can NOT post for fear of being flamed, something is "broken". Do you know how many folks COULD share or WOULD SHARE their enthusiasm for these silly cars but for a few, a handful - didn't tromp all over them? We are missing a lot of folks. A lot of enthusiasts. They simply had a fear to post as "them" for fear of folks who were "out of control". And I'll take responsibility for that. It never should have happened - people, anyone, wherever, Porsche owner or not - should never fear to post here. On Rennlist. For the first time. Or the 10,000th time. This is an enthusiast site. That's all there is. There is no more. But - the day I stop posting - or don't do "what I have to do to ensure" other enthusiasts have the same opportunity to ask questions, post pictures or enjoy the community? That's the day I take that bus and leave this site as well. So - if you are reading this - and have not posted, or registered or enjoyed the community to date - I apologize. It is "my fault". In the singular. It's not what I started. It is not what it is to become. Thanks for reading, John D.

I'm a relative newbie and have nothing to gain from posting this, but that's why John D. gets my respect...leadership & accountability still stand for something fortunately.

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Very good point.

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Great explanation John. You are a large reason why I like this place. I am not a moderator, but it personally grates me deeply when long-timers here act like they have special status based upon post count or sign-up date, or even past contributions. You never know who will end up making the place better . . .

I come to rennlist to be entertained and educated, not to be talked down to or otherwise abused. I don't enjoy seeing others jumped on either. I have no problems with a PITA being banned. Remeber a few months back when John D got pissed (rightfully so) and shut down OT? Those were dark days, as we all went into OT withdrawal. I'd rather not go through that again.

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+1

yeah, what he said.

Are we talking 'bout OCBen?? What the heck is going on?

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Different Ben . . . different Ben . . . although I understand your confusion.

Let's face it.....that dude was a dick to almost everyone about everything. Won't miss him!

I don't post much, but read every evening. I have no problem with it. How many times can a person argue over a wing , tire, etc because he can't accept the fact someone won't change their taste or opinion to match his?

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That's kind of a broad brush to paint with. I'm an active member on another auto forum (of a car which is very affordable), and I've seen nothing but respect shown amongst the members, and don't remember in the last 2 years a conversation that's become a 'wild west' discussion. As far as the influx of younger members, I'd consider myself a 'younger' 996 owner, and show anybody online the same if not more respect than I would someone that I'm talking to face to face. Age and maturity may be linked, but I fail to see age and respect being linked. I know just as many older folks that show others zero respect as I do younger folks.

This is very sad and I must say that at first, Ben and I clashed because of my TT spoiler on a 2001 C2, but then one day he PM'd me and said if you love it, that's what important. Then he helped me get my MK1 Aero kit "with strakes". I don't know what to think about all this because Ben and I had our battles on 6Speed but in the end, he was someone I could PM and ask for advice and he was super nice. I agree with the person that said that he is gone now so lets end this thread. He cannot defend himself and there is no need for that any more. This forum has way to much good in it to spend this much time talking about something that is over. I have been told that my car is a 4x4 because I have not lowered it yet with PSS9's and it was not Ben who said that. How thin is our skin? This is not combat and no one has died. Lets start having fun again. But thats just me. Paul

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Ben's OK with me too. Actually everyone on here is OK with me because I don't think I could get that worked up on a car forum. But Paul, nice truck you got there.

I'm a newbie and thought immediately the guy was more opinionated than me....and a littl abrasive. I've come to this board for good advice ,etc., and it's all here and I appreicate that. I don't want to be chapped because I don't like the taco tail, or becasue my car is stock, etc., etc. So either way, for me anyway, it's still the same informative board and the same folks that can help a new guy - just safer in staying away from a pissing match btw - thanks for all the good info guys, I do appreciate it

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ROFL, Bastard.

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+1 John, I'm surprised that more Rennlisters don't take advantage of the "ignore" function on the list. I banned Ben quite some time ago. I couldn't even begin to tell you what he's been flatulating about over the last few months, and I feel great! My point to Mike from Chicago a few months back (on a separate issue) was around self policing. If more would use the "ignore" option, those of Ben's ilk would be ignored and lose interest. When you read something that you don't like, simply ignore them. Attention *****'s like Ben thrive on getting peoples undies in a twist, don't give in. So, Rennlisters, it's your site. Don't feel bad for Ben (personally I can't stop smiling), in many ways you egged him on and fed his ego. Now, what's with these M96 motors Autofarm is rebuilding?

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LOL!

My very first Rennlist post, back in late 2001 I believe, was asking about 944 reliability - to which I got a bunch of and 'try using the Search' from what I remember. I also got a lot of helpful advice and guidance. Fast forward 6 years, my first post to the 996 forum was something about what it takes to blow up your engine, abuse or does it just happen...to which I got a lot of "after 4k plus posts, you can't use the search function..." plus a lot of good advice and help. You need a thick skin to post silly questions on a forum full of pros and posers. If I turned in my Rennlist card every time someone called me an idiot, gave me attitude, or worse, I would never have bought a 944, or a 996! Thanks again John D!

I grew up in Canada and when riding the bus the younger people usually gave the older folks there seats which where standing... out of respect and if they did not the bus driver would usually make them. It my have made some angry, however I still think it makes for a better place. So I understand John D's. reason.

I'm around Ben's age, and have been posting on car message boards before the www. Usenet anyone? Like everything else, the golden rule applies, 'treat unto others how you expect to be treated.' My post count on this board have increased by quite a substantial margin and I've been involved in a couple of flame wars involving Ben. While I'm comfortable with flaming, I have a rule never to flame someone else unless they flame first, then the gloves come off. At the end of the day, the quality of a forum is about its members and their contributions. While Ben could be entertaining, he took a lot more than he gave.

I was really hoping that Ben had matured and settled down a bit. I thought his recent (last couple of week) posts were, for the most part, devoid of his early rants and chides. I even PM'd him a couple of days ago to let him know that I had noticed a positive change on his recent posts and I encouraged him to keep it up. I haven't didn't the post/thread that got him banned, so I can't speak to the specifics of the banning. I have a lot of respect for John D. and I do know that he does not have an itchy trigger finger. If someone gets banned that just means they didn't head any of the warnings and kept pushing past the point of no return.

Wow it finally happened and I am glad. As most of you know I wrecked my Porsche in January of this year. Before that dreadful day, I was a regular on this forum. After the accident I did participate still, but I started to see things I did not like happening to the forum and it all started with one individual. So many of Ben's threads were OT and here we are on a 996 forum, and I too witnessed his responses in other threads that did not make any sense and were not nice at all. He was not entertaining and had no credability in my book. After a while I stopped visiting completely because I saw the forum going in a direction I did not like to be involved in. Well enough said and maybe now I will be on this forum more often. Oh and Ben, if you are reading this, I hope you are chuckling to yourself because we don't care.

For me, both were big losses to this site, each in dif ways. Sad to see them go. I get why, so no need to break it down any further. Ben is a good man, solid heart, most never saw past his raw ways/style, some did� Understandable either way, I get him, know what is in him. I also fully understand how it all came crashing down at the end (was watching it go down, participated in the thread). Passions run deep and thus things can get heated at times, not all just involving Ben either. As a result some feelings get hurt and people can get too pissed off. All this, IMO, should all be kept in some perspective, if possible. It is all within the internet, in a forum. I know this does not excuse the personal attacks, not looking to do so, not the point. I was disappointed in the feeding frenzy that took place afterwards. Like circling vultures swooping down to pick the bones clean. Some going about it in the same way they claim is wrong. Others just throwing stones from glass houses. I wish Bruce would have taken that vacation he had mentioned just before it all hit the fan But if any of this was crossing into his real life in negative ways, I�m truly happy for him. I stand by BenC, unpopular as it may be, black flag, green flag�whatever�.flame away. I think most took him way too seriously. As for me, I am taking that long vacation. This is not just because of the Ben and Bruce thing, although it is part of it. It is mostly just me. Chao, Wish you and your beautiful fianc� the best. The pleasure was all mine Happy travels my man I would also like to extend my deepest thanks for the fantastic time I�ve had. Yes I got pissed off/worked up at times as well, this was also part of the experience. i have no hard feelings over ANY of it, all part of that man thing, **** happens All the information I received was priceless. For the many times I fell off my chair and all the drool that kept my keyboard clean, I thank you. Last but not least, the mod sickness I caught on this site, yeah, my wife thanks you for that one as well...

I love you all.....(okay maybe not!) I understand John's points....it is annoying to have internet torrets child splurting out offensive BS ALL the time....his remarks were never funny or positive. On the other hand I think we should ban RIAD as well.....he is TOO funny ALL the time and that has to stop..

Wow am I glad this all finally happened! Civility and basic respect are principles that Benjamin Choi never will get. He is classless, rude, and I am looking forward to more activity on this forum now that he is gone. My only gripe is that he was not banned sooner. As my dad used to tell me, "don't let your alligator mouth overload your tadpole ***". Where I am from (Oklahoma) people are known for being nice. The reason people are nice to one another here is not because they are simpletons (or inbred, as Ben once told me), but because they are held accountable, directly and in person, for their actions. This has been called "cowboy justice". Trust me, you don't want to be on the receiving end of redneck justice. I still wish I could meet Ben in a bar so I could show him the "respect" and consideration he has so often shown others on this forum.

See ya later bud...

I'm sorry to see anyone leave, but the honest truth is that Ben was driving people away from here. He was turning this place into something that we didn't like. If you like Ben, miss Ben, and liked what he was doing, then this incident is a message to you that his kind of behavior will not be tolerated. If you don't like that, then you know where the door is. We're here to have fun. Reading Ben's insults and rants was not fun. It's way more preferable to waste my time in other ways than put up with that BS.

Thanks for administering, John D. I've read all of the posts on this thread and the one that were Ben's last, and it wasn't a surprise. This isn't a "feeding frenzy" of people who are behaving like vultures. This is the overwhelming reaction to the demise of someone who intimidates and attacks with the explanation "Hey, that's who I am" - a bully. Keep in mind that Ben's wasn't disrespectful to me. So, I have no personal bone to pick with him about flaming me. That being said, even the best people draw back in every social environment when there is an aggressive attempt at being "Alpha". It sucks. The retreat of good, smart, polite enthusiasts is simply bad for the forum. No one should be here for a sparring match. Because of the cars we own and the brand we love, we're in a club where many of us have paid to be members. We have a right to expect good behavior - we're not even demanding best behavior (although that would be somethin' else!). Apply Ben's behavior to any group. It was bound to happen and I'm grateful that John D. did it. Look at how many people (and the hundreds of lurkers) that are now surfacing on this thread. If that could be quantified, we could all see how much knowledge, relationship and membership dollars have been compromised by many of the statements and attacks that have taken place. Lastly, let's not kid ourselves - the young, old, abrasive, impolite, overly-opinionated members are still here to a good degree. They always will be. But, if the day comes that they dominate this forum again, I hope we don't wait for John D. to take charge. There are so many of us who (like me) who opted not to say anything. I could have at least PMd John D. This place is like a mental sanctuary for me. If I read bad behavior again, I'm not going to pull back and avoid it. I hope you agree, and will do the same. Bob

I cannot believe how many forum members have returned to the fold in the last day or two , who were always major contributors when I joined almost a year ago. Welcome back, it feels like a reunion of sorts...and that is great to see.

I was wondering if there were several users (new and old) not posting scared of getting flamed. Personally speaking, I posted seldom not wanting to get into a war of words over something petty. I frequent other boards too and see something like this off and on and then the admin steps in. I guess it was about time.

I was in NYC for a few days. What did I miss?

welcome back. Did you return because Ben got banned?

Ben (and others) have made me laugh, cry, curse, whatever at things they've said... in general, about Porsches, and about other Rennlist members. If you have a problem with it and feel that strongly about it, call them out -- once. After that, simply ignore them. If everyone had ignored Ben's button pushing, he would have either calmed down or left on his own. Otherwise, it's like providing negative reinforcement to a two year old.

I was lurker when Ben was around the board. I remember Dell straightening Ben out a few times. That was well over a year ago. It is true that Ben's attitude can be hard to deal with. I have had my battles with him. Now, I accept him for who he is and filtered out the things that do not apply to me. I am not surprised clashes happen often. I only wish those diagreements resulted in more positive responses. Those people who have taken the extra step in getting to know Ben have found an excellent human being. The world is changing fast and we don't have the time to really get to know someone. We all live in a melting pot world drawn closer by the internet while geography remains unchanged. It is regrettable that some people choose to value their first impressions more than its worth.

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Drinks with me!

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You can always be counted on for comic relief

Whether Ben is an "excellent human being" or not is irrelevant to why he was banned. And his "first impression" was much like his last.

There was one before and will always be another "Ben." Ben was probably the most colorful of all which is why he sticks in our minds. I get a chuckle out of people here who think Rennlist is now heaven.

It was nothing more than a self inflicted gunshot wound. You don't have to look far for the suspect.

I'm afraid I don't quite understand- I thought he had a major revelation several weeks ago and changed his ways and had become much more personable. I think I missed the final straw...but it must have been significant. Too bad, as I agree w/ others that PM'd him directly- very helpful and useful to me personally. Oh well, upward and onward!

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Same here. The big bad wolf is gone so the little piggies can come out and play now? C'mon... Why does anyone feel intimidated from posting on an Internet forum? What do they say again the best way to stop bullying behavior? We're all adults here, there are other ways to deal with "trouble-makers" even without the moderator. Those who cry foul and yet continue to engage the offender are no better. We all have our own opinions, and if we get flamed, then we get flamed. Without differences, there can be no learning. We don't all have to have such delicate psyches.

If you go to a place you like to hang out, but someone else goes that never shuts the **** up. He/she argues just to argue, seriously offends you and is constantly inappropriate and there's nothing you can do about it but put in a complaint, you end up just leaving until the owner/manager realizes that this person needs to go 'cause they're bad for business. This happens after enough people complain, leave and DON'T COME BACK This wasn't Ben's house, but he acted like it was and chased many people away who didn't have the time 'nor energy for his antics and did NOT wanna be offended. All that said, I hope Ben comes back and dials himself down -- I feel bad over all of this.

+1

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Gant, no doubt about Ben's delivery and general demeanor. Unlike a public place, however, where visual contact is unavoidable and no way to prevent his intrusion into every conversation, the beauty of an online forum is the ignore function. That virtually removes his antics from your experience entirely. There's no need to subject yourself to that which leads to your eventual departure. I understand the unpleasantry, but it takes a lot more than Ben and the like to drive me from a place I love hanging out at. I'm not challenging your feelings; just giving my take, that's all.

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I would agree, except in this case, He so overwhelmed a discussion that the responses are overwhelming, and they are in many cases from contributers who I would not want to filter. Yes if everyone who might be inclined to respond to the rubbish would put the individual on ignore this would work, but alas that is unlikely. I also hope Ben comes back, but grown up and polite next time. Larry

FWIW, ignore does blank out a user's posts, but you can still read their posts if they are quoted by others. Plus, it disturbs the flow of a thread if there a bunch of ignored posts in there. I say we all just dial it back a notch and focus our emotions on the cars. We all probably have to deal with enough crap in our daily lives. Rennlist should be a respite...even if you disagree with certain posts.

Hi Folks, After more than a few pages - I'm guessing this thread is all done. I'll close it - and if anyone objects - just PM me, OK??? Best to you! John