GT3 Swaybar

After having the Cross/JIC setup for a few weeks and three weekends at Willow Springs I think it's time to run a stiffer bar on the car... After doing some DD it seems that the Gt3 Swaybars are the best choice for my 02' Targa. With that said I am looking for the best shop/retailer to purchase the sway bars from.. I've looked at Gert's price and they seem reasonable, but as the track bug bites I would like to order these here in the states so that shipping times are much faster. Can anyone suggest where I can order a set of bars before X-mas . Besides the OEM GT3 bars, are there other race type of bars that will fit my application? BTW, What other parts are needed in order to make the Gt3 bars fit.. I've read that drop links need to be added costing around $1000 for just the parts.. Can anyone shed some light on this topic.. Thank you in advance DN.

FWIW I doubt that any US dealer has these parts in stock. They will have to be ordered from Atlanta, or wherever PCNA has their parts depot. I doubt that you will get them any quicker than ordering from Gert. I've order things from him on Monday, and had them on my doorstep on Thursday. Give him a call to see if he has them in stock, and handle the transaction by phone. I can get a clutch from Gert faster than my dealer can get a ball cap from Porsche. Cheers,

Lindsey Racing advertises that they have these parts. Do a web search to find their phone number and web site. Check out the H&R bars as they are the same size as the GT3 bars. They cost alot less and comes with the end links which are very expensive for the motorsports ones. Performance Products carry them as will other H&R retailers like Tirerack will. I think the set will cost under $600. Also check out The Racers Group makes a their own bars that are comparable to the GT3, however I think the price are about the same as the GT3.

I had to order mine through my dealer and still waiting... the problem is not the front/rear bars but some damn bushings you need to use to install them... go figure...

as ed pointed out, trg has their own 'bars and factory 'bars: http://www.theracersgroup.com/

H&R's aren't the same hole wise nor I believe size wise. Gerts shipping is usually superior to most anyone else. I usually recieve things from him in 3 days as long as he has the parts in stock which for the bars he should. For the droplinks you need to either modify, i.e. cut and reweld the front ones 15mm or buy the trg ones like I did that are about 400 bucks. That said I dig the bars. I had them 1 from stiff at the beginning and it was just wayy too stiff for a daily driver with canyons on the weekends. I am now running full soft f and 1 from full soft rear. The balance is perfect. The ride is nice also.

I can't seem to find a definitive answer about the endlinks for the GT3 sways in our cars. I have a 99 C2 with the H&R coilovers. I ordered the sways from my local dealer and I too was expecting a long lead time for delivery as that is what they indicated. To my shock I received the bars along with the mounting hardware in 2 weeks. Anyways back to my question, can I or can i not use the stock endlinks with my GT3 sways? My dealer said it wasn't necessary, yet alot of the posts on here say I do need to get custom endlinks. Can someone who has done this mod explain to me what the change is that requires different end links? If I go with the TRG endlinks, can you tell me why they are so expensive? The TRG endlinks will almost cost me the same amount as my sways. Arnold Newish 996 owner, former 986 owner

The front links must be 15mm shorter for adjusting etc. The trg links are more because they use rod ends that are pretty heavy duty. The simply fix is to do channel 15 out of half of each end after cut in half and reweld. I believe it needs to be shortened either 15mm or 30mm, but I forgot which.

Sean, thanks for the response. Do you feel that there is any weakening of the end links by cutting them and rewelding? What do you think about shortening the stock end links and threading them so that you can have adjustability for length for the different settings on the bar. Another question, can we not also get the endlink from the GT3 to use? Sorry for all the questions Arnold

Thanks for all the detailed responses... Now the question is, has anyone ran either the H&r, TRG and the Gt3 setup and what are the differnces.. There are two different types on the TRG website.. One looks like the OEM type with the standard bends while the other has what looks like blue anodized aluminum work of art... Now the can of worms are just opening...

I have the blue anodized trg ones as I didn't know anyone to cut and modify mine at the time, and I was worried about them breaking, the way I drive. A friend of mine has them cut and rewelded and drives just as hard as I do and there seems to be no problems. That half cut technique was told to me by GERT and gives the strongest result. My friends btw is not cut this way. Basially if the person is a competent welder and does and uses the right stuff I don't see it as being a problem. As I did everything at once, pss9's and gt3 bars I couldn't tell you the difference in just the bars that way. However I did experiment with all the settings and there is a huge range of adjustability that the bars offer.

I just came back from the dealer. No go for the sway bars I ordered... There are the part numbers that they ordered: 99634370190 Rear 99633370190 Front Which are supposed to be the GT3's. I was with my mechanic when he was seeing if they would work and the rear does not fit the form of the engine. SPR, are these the part you had to cut and welded? I guess I am a little comfused now.. are there any kits (H&R?) you can install without modifying the bars?

the gt3 ones don't work as is I had a parts guy measure them, they're the same length. You have to cut or weld them or get the trg links. I actually did a write up of this exact issue in the archives a while ago.

Thx SPR... if you have to get that crafty I think I rather go for the H&Rs...

Before the H&R kits came out the only choice is the GT3 bars. The M030 bars are only about 10-15% stiffer than stock. The standsrd suspension were 23mm front and 18.5mm rear. The M030 were 23.6 and 19.6. The GT3 are 26.8 and 20.7. There is an adjustable drop link from Porsche, but it is expensive like the TRG units. H&R bars are 26 and 23, but SPR is right the front is not adjustable. I think the H&R will handle just as good as the GT3 bars for 90% of the drivers. In order to really get the most out of the bars you really have to know how to drive and most of us weekend warriors will never be able to drive 10/10. So for the money the H&R is a good value.

The H&R's are a pretty recent deal, they kept saying they were out, but really weren't. I run my front bar soft because I drive it every day. If and when I go on a track again I will set them back 1 from stiff. I also run my pss9's 4/3 so... I like a quasi soft ride. With the bars set 1 from stiff in the canyons they were cool but not ideal as they would make the car jump. I am sure I should have been running higher settings on the pss9's however as it effectively acts like a stiffer spring with more resistance when in mid cornering etc. One of these days for the heck of it I will set them to 1 and back to 1 off stiff and go through the canyons and see how the dampning compares-

Hey Eddie, Thanks for your feedback, that is very true. Well, I did not initiated this post but I am sure as hell I learned a lot from it... thanks Apx2Apx!! Before I let go... I am ordering FR/RR H&R sway bars from tirerack (cheapest price I found) and I read that it comes with bushings but, is there anything else needed? How about the clamps that bold the sway bars to the chassis, can the original ones be reused?

Ivan, the kits are complete and should bolt up as is.

I have had both the TRG and GT3 bars on a Boxster S (same front as 996s). In order to be adjustable, you need to vary the lever arm length. The TRG and GT3 bars are thus flat on the ends. The stock bar bends down, and hence has longer end links. I think it is the H&R bar that also bends down, but since the holes are essentially vertical, it is really not adjustable. The "really" adjustable GT3 and TRG bars absolutely must have shorter end links. You will not be able to install with the OE links. Also, because of the geometry, the end links need to be pretty beefy. While playing around with the rear end links, I noticed the TRG links were noticeable stiffer than the OE end links (length is not an issue in the rear) which leads me to believe there is some flex in the OE end links which seems reasonable if you look at the size of them versus the size of the bar. In the end, the TRG rear bar was too similar to stock, so I just stayed with the front bar. I've done other mods and am running the front at full stiff. In order to run at full stiff or 2nd from full stiff, you run into serious binding problems which litterally will break the end links. I've then gone to making some custom brackets to correct the geometry so I can run full stiff without binding. Yes, the end links are outrageously expensive. I've got several hundred dollars of end links and am making my own end links now since the TRG end links will rub agains the wheel carrier at full stiff. As for comparing the TRG and GT3 bars: they are about the same. The TRG bar is an "English" knock-off of the GT3 bar which is metric. The dimensions are slightly different, and the GT3 is a teeny bit stiffer which is why I went with it. Either is about twice as stiff as stock. If you are interested, I still have the TRG bar and a box of end links including the original (trick looking) blue anodized aluminum TRG ones. The original TRG rod end bushings are a little hammered (from the binding), but they work and/or I can try to get another set. Basically the TRG bar setup is fine as long as you run in the middle position or softer. For stiffer, you need the real Porsche Motorsports end links which are about $500 or custom end links and some brackets like I made to fix the geometry. I am in the SF Bay area.

Uh, I don't know about that. I have the trg links and have run them full stiff without binding or rubbing. Mine are bent and the bend is SUPPOSED to face the front. This might likely be your issue. However given that you are running the front stiff you prefer some gross understeer which is a really weird setup. The cool thing about the trg bars is they also have special spacers that allow the rod end not to bind when installed correctly. This also might be your problem. Also you can adjust the length and mine are full short. In sum I have had no problems with the links. Also my friend has the same gt3 bars as mine and has modified stock links and it seems to ride a little softer but the links are fine no bending etc. Do they flex? duno.

I suspect that TRG has a revision of the end links, then. Mine are straight and there are no spacers. The length is near full short--just enough to clear the lower control arms. I do not prefer gross understeer. It depends on the rest of your setup. Mine is pretty stiff, and I get mild oversteer except for relatively low speeds. Another major consideration of understeer is your front tire pressures.

Thanks for the info everyone... from what I've been reading I think the Gt3 setup will be best... Does anyone have any suggestions where to find the end links at a reasonable price.. arenared~ whre did you have your endlinks made and what were the costs.. Does TRG make two different bars for our cars.. from there website the bars look completely different from the GT3 bars... http://www.theracersgroup.com/parts/...s/swaybars.htm ...

I got my bars from gert at carnewal at a great deal, probably cheaper than what the H&R's are today and certainly cheaper than the trg bars, but of course bought the trg links.

SPR-- Ah, I realized another reason why you don't have binding at full stiff. You have the GT3 bars with the TRG links. The spacing on the holes on the TRG bar is wider than on the GT3 bar. Thus, the stiffest setting on the TRG is a little further inward. Also, I don't know what structural differences there are between 996/986 and a true GT3 in terms of sub-frames, control arm lengths, wheel carriers, etc., but I did also notice that the TRG/GT3 bars are about 3/4" narrower than the stock Boxster bar which is a 996 P/N. Apx2Apx-- Ignore the pictures in the link. Those are not for the 996/986. Check the stock rear diameter. For the 986, there are stock rears that are 19.6mm. The TRG is "20mm" which I bet is really .75" (19mm), and I think their 26mm bar is actually 1" (25.4mm) rounded up. For info on endlinks, try to PM me since there is way to much info to cover here.