JD Power Survey - "Porsche has 159 Problems per 100 Vehicles" ???

"I was reading an article that the latest JD Powers survey showed Porsche had 159 problems per 100 vehicles, according to their Initial Quality Study. That compares with 117 problems in 2003." I'm a bit confused... I thought JD Power ranked porsche as the #1 most reliable sports car... with these figures, that doesn't seem to correspond with those figures... Also, does this mean that problems are mounting as the years continue on older models, such as 99s?, going from 117 probs per 100 in 2003 to 159 probs per 100 in 2004 sofar including all model years ever, or just for the boxster, 996, or what? Anyone more knowledgable on JD Power care to explain some of this to me?

its all because of the pepper, and induhvidualz like yourself.

you should just sell your P-car and call it a day

Listen Bob, get off this forum-What is it with you? Do you spend all your waking hours looking for negative Porsche information to support your moronic theories? Please go to the nearest Psychiatrist immediately, you have a serious mental imbalance- I reckon you must have some sort of filter on the brain that rejects anything other than what you want to hear. You purchased a dud and spent a gazillion dollars paying for your stupidity. Which makes me wonder, where did you get all this money? It could not have been through any ingenuity or acumen on your part. Stop this nonsense please-people here are just humouring you because they know you don't have both oars in the water. Give it a break-tedious doesn't even come close. Your a bit confused-your darn tootin!!

bob for more info on jd powers go here: http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/index.jsp# no dis intended here guys but.... Bob posts about 1 post to every 5-10 responses lets say bob really is just trying to 'stir things up' or just 'be negative'...to the causal observer it seems to me that most of the forum pollution is coming from the replies not the orginal posts. If his comments bug people so much why not just stop responding to him. or just PM him? otherwise it seems to me that you just want everyone to here you be negative...or perhaps you are going after bob b/c he is just an easy target...since so many others have gone after him...if so that is really disappointing Bob, for what its worth I have no real opinion regarding your posts I am just trying to answer what seemed like a reasonable question to me.

Initial quality and reliability are two different things. The first has to do with any problems that you found or encountered when you first picked up the car. JD Powers rates reliability over different time periods. Porsche's seem to have little/big things go out that need fixed. My car had to have its stereo/nav system replaced and now the passenger window switch is broken.

I haven't read the latest JD Power initial quality survey, but according to a past survey Porsche's reliability stats were dragged down by Cayenne's new-model issues. JDP's IQS only deals with owners after 90 days of ownership. According to what we are reading in the 997 threads this could get worse. However I question the significance of initial quality anyway. It's kind of like the fickleness of IPO stocks, but stocks don't come with warranties and it's no fun driving a stock.

I was surprised to see those numbers years ago, when I purchased my acura, which was ranked first and had something like ~120 complaints per 100 vehicles. ???

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif

Bob, Posting just bare numbers like that is not very informative. It's like me telling you that a car scored '10' but not telling you out of what - if it's out of 10 then great, if it's out of 100 then you probably bought it from a Ford dealer So...in the interests of putting things in a little bit of context I went to the JD Powers site and looked up 3 cars - Porsche 911, BMW 3 Series and a Corvette. Here's what we got: ................. Mechanical Reliability.................Overall Quality Porsche.................5............................................... .5 BMW.....................2............................................... .3 Corvette................4............................................... .3 I think that basically says it all...

Well done H1!

Doing the math in my head: That means approx. 1.5 problems per vehicle. I would welcome that as a statistic when choosing a new car. I have easily had double that with my MY2002 M5 which is late in the car's model cycle. Early model year cars (like the new 5, 6 and 7 series from BMW) have many more problems - at least according to the surveys I have seen and the postings on the message boards.

I think what is happening is bob is trying to claim he got all 159 problems in his car and the other 99 cars from that hundred were great. But then again, that would say he got a lemon and that is not the case either since ALL porsches must be bad or waiting to be bad at the right time according to him So 1.5 problems on avg for each of us or 1 car with 159. Either way, sounds like great numbers to me. Either we deal with 1.5 or get a dud and then odds are we are not going to be in a dud a second time (unless the Ford dealer offers another). Please bob give it a rest or post something uplifting.

H1, To be fair, what scale are you 911, 3-Series, and Vette numbers on??? I like what I see, as long as we are not talking a 10 scale...

Before jumping at me, my loyal fand of bashing followers, including munro86, who seems to post post after post after post, criticizing anyone and everyone that posts anything negative against porsche, (and those are the only posts I have seen from him) looking to jump on anything I have posted... I don't even think he owns a porsche personally... I was not negating porsche in this post.. I was simply curious as to what this information meant.. I am not to familiar with what the report meant when they indicated 159 problems per 100 vehicles in 2004 vs 117 problems in 2003... as in how are these numbers negated? As in, each vehicle in the past 5 years is reported to have 1.5 problems a year on average or what? I swear, some of you guys, need to calm down.. this is a forum, and all aspects of the vehicle can be discussed. Positive and negative. I have posted many positive posts, and many negative, as have many others.. if you don't like the question, no need to answer with a negative response, we are all porsche owners, trying to understand and enjoy our vehicles to the best we can. It wasn't an attack towards porsche by any means and simply because i've had bad experiences with my vehicle, now that I have an extended warranty, I can't wait to get it back and start driving it...

Bob, I just went to JD Power web site. I see nothjing about an article you are saying. All I saw were ratings for the 2004 911 of 5 out of 5 except in one category. Comfort is 3 out of 5. Surprise on that one. Based on what I've read on their website, JD Powers still ranks the Porsche 911 as "Among the best"! Anyway, what article are you talking about? Check the source before investing any opinions on it.

I was reading the current issue of DUB magazine at an auto shop the other day... it's in a small blurb titled "Porsche Quality Issues?" it's on one of the first pages of the magazine, although I do not remember the exact page.. Yes I went to the JD Power sit as well and saw the ratings.. that's why I was having problems understanding what exactly that article meant...

The only survey that matters is the one you take each time you start the engine. You can read 20 different magazines and get 20 different opinions that they try to pass off as FACTS.

Porsche introduced new vehicles recently. Whenever a manufacturer debuts new models, their quality ratings usually go down slightly if the new models are complicated cars (they take a year or two to sort out the bugs). Look what happened to BMW when they launched the new 7 and then the new 5. Their quality ratings and the number of problems per 100 new cars increased. It takes German car manufacturers a year to get the bugs worked out usually.

1999Porsche911, I'm not talking about the magazine's opinion... It's an article that indicated JD Power Reported these findings as of the end of this year.. They simply posted what JD Power found through their research, no opinions of any kind, except for the title of the blurb/article... So when they indicate 159 problems per 100 cars, does that mean an average of 1.6 problems per year reported per vehicle?

What about Bratslavian manufacturers?

The Porsche 996 is, and has been, the higest ranked Premium sports car for the last 4 years by JD Powers and Associates when considering all catagories and quality control at the factory. If you consider all areas all other Premium Sports Cars don't get close to the 996 in when build quality and all catagories are factored into the ranking.

Ahh...well this was 'comparitve' information - it doesn't matter as long as you are better than the rest

Mmmm....1.5 problems per car. Gee thats scary. I'm not looking forward to sleeping tonight because I just know I'm going to toss and turn worrying about my visor hangar breaking or something catastrophic like that.Thanks Bobby for doing the math, for a minute there I thought you were saying 159 faults per car-then again your car.....wait on I've been told to be nice...but hang-on this is a forum.It would be good if it was all sweetness and light, but reality is not like that.I've always learnt the most by lively discussion,including criticism directed towards me-so it would be a shame if everything was sanitised. The Porsche I have( yes Bob I do have one) has had its share of minor problems (leaking cam covers,spark plug o rings etc) I wasn't thrilled about it but its a car that exists in a physical world with friction, heat, cold etc, so things will,at times, go wrong. It is another matter entirely to posit a notion that a 996 Porsche is a time bomb waiting to explode. So my point is...Bob's tedious banging on about some endemic manufacturing malady afflicting Porsche just cannot be substantiated.The most embarassing thing is seeing him get into a lather thinking "ooh look 159 faults per car-my car was normal after all" when he just got it wrong-is just cringeworthy. I love these cars to death, but not to the point of blindness to the facts.I accept the faults they have, but I will not cobble together some biased myth just because I mistakenly went to a Ford Dealer.

Perhaps Bob is beating a dead horse, but then how do you explain the RMS issues on late model 996's like Motor Trend mags 04 C4S? I thought the seal design was fixed? http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ct/index2.html Once the warranty honeymoon is over for these, then I would guess the consumer feedback will be less favorable regardless if bought at a Porsche or Ford dealer.

The Cayenne has put Pcars in bad light overall. If you check the Cayenne board, new owners have 4-5 TSBs that haven't been done on delivery and these count. It is to be expected since it's a new body, chassis and engine. I won't even go near the electronics. My 996 had the loss of coolant issue and little else. Remember the '99 motor was new castings to hold fluid, unfortunately the rms issue is a direct result of that. Personally, I don't think the 911's should be grouped with the Cayenne (which probably has over 200 issues per hundred).

I think most Porsches are driven only about 5000mi./yr. This may overestimate the reliability compared to cars driven more miles per year. edited

Huh????????????? I think MOST PORSCHE OWNERS would say maybe in your town and around your own block!

I'm basing that on the large number of very low mileage used cars available.

I'm basing that on the large number of very low mileage used cars available. So just how many 996's are there for sale with less than 3,000 miles on them? I would like to find a few of those.

I believe 6k miles/yr (=500 miles/month) is considered average for P cars. Normal mileage for most cars is 10-12k/yr for resale purposes.

That can be supported by non winter use by many (they store). Many are not daily drivers. Ebaker seems right in a broad sense. Pity the guys who get rms leaks after warranty expires and the absurd extended warranty periods of 100,000 mi or two years.

OOOOOkay now thats more like the number that drive around my city block. DRIVE THAT THING, Take it out and flog it a little, if it feels good...flog it again!

There you go. DUB MAGAZINE. Bling Bling! This car aint got no diamonds and the windows aint be rollin' up with voice command! Man, I is gonna sell this piece and gets that fly Escalade. All this talk about sportscars aint what its cracked up to be. Speaking of crack... If i buy a 911 or other sportscar, its because of what it is and what it does. I expect quirkiness in a car of this nature. Maybe all these complaints come from new exotic owners who have never lived with 60s 70s and 80s sportscars... Speaking of reliability though, arent like more than 70% of all Porsches made STILL on the road? I know i read that fact somewhere recent... That says plenty on its own.

munro86 I never said it's "scary", I was simply inferring that the survey by jd power indicated these figures.. every single one of your post has simply been criticizing other individuals posts, even though they are completely valid. Have you posted a single message to this board that has assisted anyone with any porsche experience of any kind, or is your purpose simply here to make unneccessary all negative comments, which don't assist anyone of any kind? You criticize my negative posts, yet all of your posts are nothing but negative... quite hypocritical I must say so myself... Many of my posts, may have been negative experienced related, and yes, that is due to my $47,000 in repair bills in 1,100 miles.. which i'm sure any porsche owner would duefully be upset about as well.. regardless, they may save people $15,000 in having to replace an engine.. yet I have indicated countless times how enjoyable the porsche is to drive, and that my experience is very rare in the period they have happened, although my problems are not uncommon by any means in the world of the 996... ..your posts are nothing but useless babblings on other peoples experiences, questions, and opinions about their experience with their vehicles.. which I dont' understand why you insist on posting.. -------- Mmmm....1.5 problems per car. Gee thats scary. I'm not looking forward to sleeping tonight because I just know I'm going to toss and turn worrying about my visor hangar breaking or something catastrophic like that.Thanks Bobby for doing the math, for a minute there I thought you were saying 159 faults per car-then again your car.....wait on I've been told to be nice...but hang-on this is a forum.It would be good if it was all sweetness and light, but reality is not like that.I've always learnt the most by lively discussion,including criticism directed towards me-so it would be a shame if everything was sanitised. The Porsche I have( yes Bob I do have one) has had its share of minor problems (leaking cam covers,spark plug o rings etc) I wasn't thrilled about it but its a car that exists in a physical world with friction, heat, cold etc, so things will,at times, go wrong. It is another matter entirely to posit a notion that a 996 Porsche is a time bomb waiting to explode. So my point is...Bob's tedious banging on about some endemic manufacturing malady afflicting Porsche just cannot be substantiated.The most embarassing thing is seeing him get into a lather thinking "ooh look 159 faults per car-my car was normal after all" when he just got it wrong-is just cringeworthy. I love these cars to death, but not to the point of blindness to the facts.I accept the faults they have, but I will not cobble together some biased myth just because I mistakenly went to a Ford Dealer.

Quirks are tolerable as are reliability and maintenance issues that are somewhat above the norm. I would think however that looming RMS issues, engine replacements and routine visits to service are good reasons to make owners and potential owners concerned if not skeptical. Not sure we can attribute that to reliability. I think the majority of Porsches are pampered and are second- third-car toys. If they were daily drivers that number drops like a rock. Sports cars are collectibles and P cars have proven very collectible, hence the fact that many of them are around today.

That's exactly my attitude and most feel the same way. Ignore the heckling Bob.

$47,000 in repair bills in 1,100 miles?????????? Wait...did you actually put down 47K outta pocket to repair a "new" car? Or was it in "warranty work" from a car with major failure?

Oh yeah, forgot about the RMS thing...

FWIW, both Motor Trend Long term test cars developed the RMS leak... they wrote it off as no big deal! In their "99 C2, they say that most things were fine, and that they noticed that the car has a small oil leak as they were about to return the car... wonder what that was??? Also, as someone else mentioned, thier '04 C4S was in the shop for an RMS repair that they almost made sound like changing wiper blades! Now, with that said, I have also had my RMS replaced once at 22k... but otherwise things have been great... much better than my X5... It just gets me a bit hot when a magazine like Motor Trend experiences the main problem that most of us are concerned about (TWICE), and then turns the other cheek!?!

Sorry, meant to say 5000mi/yr. 500 was a typo.

Perhaps this quote from MT has something to do with it: " We hope Stuttgart will bring out a 997-platformed C4S as the new model evolves-- and sends us one of those, too . " Do MT and others get their test vehicles gratis? At least Euro Car Mag has the stones to warn its readers, many of whom buy used cars: "While this is a warranty fix, it won't be 5 years from now, and at 20k a pop, 3.6-liter Porsche engines aren't cheap." http://www.europeancarweb.com/longt...9ec_porsche911/ I'm guessing auto makers in general hate long term tests and would rather the mags just take a quick spin and print the marketing release info.

Blue S2, It's for my 99 cab I picked up about a year ago that had 49k miles on it... no warranty.. .great price.. (at the time) msrp $95k with all the options, picked it up for $39k.. unfortunately in the end i discovered it not to be the best decision... now i have an extended warranty, and all the major parts are replaced, engine, tranny, flywheel, everything down to the clutch is brand new... which are covered by the 2 year porsche warranty, along with a 3rd party extended warranty, so i'm not too concerned anymore for the next 2 years.. after that, this thing will be sold to the highest bidder as soon as possible :> i've put too much money into it exterior wise, and interior wise to consider selling it now... just plan on enjoying it when I can and on using my $0 extended warranty quite often.. just still waiting for my damn transmission from germany that was supposed to be here by now <grr> car has been in the repair shop for about 260 days and counting out of about 285 days of ownership... sigh.. yes, still upset, but can't wait to get it back oh and also, no rms leak in the 1,100 miles i've had it.. bonus

I'm not sure anyone answered the question. The index is the JD Power initial quality survey. The numbers mean simply this: for every 100 new Porsches purchased in 2003 there were 117 problems reported in the first 90 days. For every 100 Porsches purchased during 2004, there were 159 problems reported in the first 90 days. It is strictly an initial delivery quality measurement, and has no relation to longer term reliability. JD Powers has a separate survey for that. The increase in initial problems from 2003 to 2004 was reportedly the result of the introduction of the Cayenne, and its associated early teething problems.

I would guess the numbers would jump from 04 to 05. More Peppers sold vs sports cars. Don't be surprized if the numbers jump from 159 to 300-350 per 100. The future for PAG doesn't look good in that arena.

What company gave you the extended warranty, and if it's not too personal, what are they charging you?

yeah, that munro dude needs to have a hot cup of shut the fark up.....honestly, what a jacka**.

My friend bought a Cayenne and it's been to the shop at least 5 times in the first 90 days. That must be the Volkwagen influence.