Xenons or not?

On the car I just bought, it said in the ad that it had Xenons. I don't think they are. Last nite when I was driving I noticed that they seem as yellow as other cars. They do have the bulb in teh middle but it looks like a standard bulb that surrounds it. It DOES NOT have washers like The Sub. did. 1. Do the standard (non Xenons) have the "eye" bulb in the middle? 2. If I don't have Xenons, what should I do?

Factory's litronic is around 4300k, unlike those aftermarket kit normally above 6000k. you can tell if you have xenon or not by switch the headlights on. the real xenon need "warm-up", which you'll see lightbeam from dim to full bright. also you can tell if the headlight is doing self-level check. if does, congrats, you have factory xenon, otherwise will be add-on xenon after delivery.

Nope, guess it's not and they we're mistaken in the ad.

ALL FACTORY XENONS HAVE HEADLIGHT WASHERS

Take it back and sue them! BTW, I am just kidding!

Litronics are a cool blue/white color and as someone else mentioned they take a few seconds to warm up to full brightness. Halogens are a bright yellow/white. Look at the factory option sticker underneath the front lid for the following codes which would indicate you have xenons. P03 Technic Pkg P01 Advanced Technic Pkg M601 Headlamp Litronics

I know, but it just makes me mad. Thought I had 'em. Xenon's are an option that I really wanted. I feel ripped again!! Arrg. Too late to expect anything? Or just chalk it up to, I should have checked them when I was there. Although I didn't know what to look for.. !@#$%^

Tell them you will give bad rating on ebay and have them pay for Xenon's to be put on. Then have a beer because you my man deserve one. Make it a Bud-wise-er

Enjoy the rest of the car. It's a beauty and you shouldn't dwell on the details. This car will treat you right even if it had oil burning lamps as headlights . If the $ is the issue, ask the dealer about it, otherwise, don't sweat the small stuff and drive, drive, drive. -td

Sorry to hear. The xenon lits were one of the deal makers for me to pull the trigger on my car.

Yes, you can identify Bi-Xenons by the headlight washers. The reason why there is confusion in identifying Bi-Xenons is that all My02+ 996's have projector headlights. My Boxster service loaners also have projectors, but no Xenons on them. The bottom line is if they represented the car to have them and you bought the car on a negotiated pricing expecting them, then there is a legal obligation they have to meet. There are several things you can do. 1. You can return your car and demand your money back. 2. You can demand they they put a set of Bi-Xenon headlights on the car. They can be purchased through any Porsche department and are available used through many sources including salvage and E-bay. They are not obligated to provide new lights since the car is used. 3. You can have them refund the amount for the Bi-Xenons. This can be up to the amount they were originally offered as an option. If you go to them and present them any of these options and they refuse to comply, you have both civil and criminal recourse. You can easily take them to court for financial compensation, but you can also file criminal charges as an act of fraud.

I'm with 02 on this one. The mistrepresented the car and can remedy this VERY EASILY with them buying you a set of XENONS or cutting you a check for the cost of a new set. That's it.

Already left pos. feedback. Just talked to Jeremy at Bent Tree, he seemed like he really didn't know. He said he's gonna check on something and call me back. Thing that is frustrating is, the ad said: Xenons, Lumbar, Bose. Had none of those. THese guys really need to check their cars better.

Gant, are you pulling one on us? This just can't be real........again.

Wish I was. Look at the headlight in the picture. Do yo see the little silver squirty thing? Then look at the ad where I bought the car....whish it was a joke.. I'm more mad at myself for missing it when I was there. Didn't know what to look for. Saw the projector in the middle, thought that was xenon.

What ad? I don't see it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

damn. just looking at those pics I could have told you there was NOT xenons or lumbar on the seats. Where do dealers get their options lists from? My God, is there no due diligence anymore?

You can try the "Factory Option Code" decoder. http://www.kindel.com/Porsche/options.asp Also, I think it the P xenon is still quite WHITE, so you can actually easily tell if you are looking at it, if you don't think that it is WHITE, you probably don't have it. If they truely mis-ad... you should be able to take it back to the dealer... did you bought it from EBAY? How long ago?

Check the options under my hood. Wierd but it says NOTHING about my memory/full power seats OR full leather dash.

Both memory/full power (except lumbar) and full leather dash were standard features on the C4S.

Sorry to tell you but, your car clearly doesn't have xenons or lumbar. You can certainly add the xenons but from what I understand, they will not have the dynamic self-leveling feature that the factory install has.

The full leather dash is standard on the C4S, so it won't be listed as an option. In fact, full leather is standard on the C4S. You should have full leather seating, full leather dash, alcantara leather roof lining, full leather door trim, etc, all not listed as an option since they are standard on the C4S. It omes with vinyl sun visors, though, which doesn't make sense. Power seats, non-lumbar, are also standard, as stated by jeeva. Anyway, I'm sure you have the full leather, as it would be idiotic to replace them. Bi-Xenon and Bose plus 6-disc CD changer were bundled together in a popular option called Advanced Technics in 2002. I am as flabergasted as Dell. I can't even imagine what you must feel. I'm with 02. Demand compensation.

Sorry guys, for all the attention I have commanded thru all of this... Not really sure what to demand. I guess I can price aftermarket xenons and start from there.

BTW, I took a look at the pics in the ad. You don't have Bi-Xenons. You do have full leather. You do have the 6-disc changer. A quick way to see if you have Bose is to pull the seat back of the rear seat forward. You should see the subwoofer behind the seat backs at it's outer edges. If you have both the 6 disc changer and the Bose, I think I can figure out what happened. Advanced technics is a good option bundle Porsche price wise. Most likely, if you have the Bose and the 6-disc, your car probably had the Bi-Xenons as well. Somewhere down the line, the BiXenons were replaced by Halogens. Either by the previous owner(s), or by the dealer. Still, I think your sellers owe you Bi-Xenons, since they advertised and sold the car to you as such. OTOH, you've already been through a lot. Screw the Xenons. The halogens are excellent, the car is excellent. Just enjoy the car.

Dude, I feel sorry for you, but I'll be honest, this one comes under do dilligence.... before purchasing you should have checked the ad against the car, along with checking that all systems worked... that would have included checking the seat functions and switching on the headlights. Xenons are a distinctive color and if they were an option that you wanted I would have expected you to have known that, otherwise why would you have wanted it. I think this one might fall under "as-is" because all of the claims of the ad could reasily have been validated by checking the car. If the dealer is good he might throw you a bone to keep you happy, but I'm not sure that he has to. Doesn't hurt to ask, but my expectations are low.

I just bought a used 996 too... it was a 99.... the included factory litronic was one of the SELLING point... and that's basically MAKE the deal for me!! I love the bi-xenons.....

Actually, the CD changer does not come with the technics pkg. I thought it did too. When I brought it up with the dealer, he agreed to split the cost and installed the changer for me. Also, it doesn't look like you have the Bose b/c, if I remember correctly (since my 4S is in for an RMS replacement), it says "Bose" on the door speakers. I love the bi-xenons and that was the only must-have option that I had to have, but I'm really grateful that my 4S had the PSE b/c that's my favorite toy on the car! The thicker steering wheel is nice too. There were several long threads about the bi-xenons and how the silver washer on the headlights was the indicator. If a bunch of the options (bi-xenons, Bose, lumbar) that they listed aren't on the car, that's false advertising. I'd hold them to it. Those are significant cost items.

I feel for you. You have really been through the ringer. But look on the bright side, you have a really great car. You've really got nothing to lose by going back to the dealer and politely letting them know that you are unhappy because the ad was inaccurate. If they value customer service and good feedback you will come to some $ compromise. You can't get what you don't ask for. What's the worst that could happen? They say "no", you complain to ebay and leave feedback that they openly lie in the ads. You still have a great car!

I was used to seeing the xenons with the little bulbs in the middle and the halogens as just one piece. Didn't know the halogens in 2002 had the bulb. So when i first saw the car, I thought that was xenons. Till I drove it at night and realized it looked the same color as all other cars with halogens.

Sorry Gant but I would have checked options fpr you if I would have thought of it I turned on the headlights and knew that they were not zenons but that was before you called me back and I forgot to mention that. We were very close to catching it..... No, Jeramy does not know the cars very well. As I said early on they are not known around here as being Porsche guys. He thought my car was a GT3 but it has the Carrera wing on the back. He also said a few other things that were wrong about your car but I just racked it up as lack of knowledge. I sat and talked with him on other subjects for a while and I do not believe that the description mistakes were intentional. The next car you buy down here I will make sure to check the options

Ack! I'd forgotten that you checked out the car for him. Ouch.

Hey...you didn't have to say Ack!@# I already feel bad

I'm sorry, I can imagine. I felt terrible reading your post. I'd forgotten that you did the inspection for Gant. When I wrote my post I was thinking back to when I bought my car and spent 4 hours there inspecting and driving 4 cars, then reinspecting the two that I was most interested in.... I checked every inch of the car and every switch... the dealer thought I was being a bit of an **** retentive on a pre-owned car. He was correct, as I was looking for a car in "as-new" condition.

After seeing the rest of the information posted, I would simply take the car back to them and get a refund. I find it very strange that this car does not have Bi-Xenons. In fact it is missing 3 items listed: 1. No Bi-Xenons 2. No lumbar on either set (OEM power is not retrofitable without changing seats) 3. No Bose (no labels on speaker grills or rear sub present, it is obviously a Hi-Fi car). Best guess about the history of the car is that it was a special order from a particular customer who wanted as few options as possible. This is the first C4S I have seen without Bose and HIDs. The dealer most likely copied the description from another car and didn't catch the errors. Hence how you got in the situation. For the money I think you are better off getting another car with the right equipment (unless you don't really care about these items). I am curious what they will have to say when you talk to them.

On the phone with Gant I even looked under the front hood to make sure the build tag was there and we discussed it. I never looked at the Ebay ad either to see the options listed

Stevo, don't bang your head to hard. We all live and learn. Now we know for next time. You're help was very appreciatted. This will all work out. Either way, it's a great car and I'm not going to let this change the way I feel @ it. Thing is, we talked about the options, the HID's just never came to mind, cause I thought FOR sure it had them...

Hey, not your fault, you checked out that the car was sound, you did everything you said that you would. I know Gant appreciated it and I'm sure that we all would have in his shoes. To be honest I only got around to checking my option codes after I bought my car - I kicked myself for not doing it sooner. Although, I did find that the ad. for my car got many of the features wrong... well, totally incorrect, or missing.

OK As a small token for my PM me your address and I will send you a set of clear side markers, the extras I told you I had. Lumbar wouldn't bother me too much but the zenons would. Sorry and maybe Jeramy will pitch in to get a set. Um lesson learned, never volunteer for a job you are not qualified to do! OBVIOUSLY!! I knew that they did not know the cars but checking the ad to the car did not cross my mind? Every car I looked at I called Porsche with the VIN to check options. I called the 800 number so many times they knew me from my voice!

arr0gant, i thought we were done here.....not again....... tell them they mis-represented the car, ask for ALL(xenon, bose, mem. seat) settle for anything.

wow this really bites! Maybe you can just get them to order you those xenons and install them.......your car looks great anyhow- good luck

I can't tell the difference by looking at your P that the lights are not xenons..they look exactly the same as mine....the only difference is the headlight washer option. I think the way you can tell if you have xenons is that when you turn them on they kind of have to warm up to a second and than become very bright and white. I wouldn't return the car for the headlights...you can buy them for about 500/800 bucks on ebay (might have to wait a a couple of weeks!)

Talking to Jeremy at present. He said he is waiting to talk to Porsche. He prolly wants to just find out if it says it has them, or whatever. When he confirms it doesn't, I'm gonig to tell him this: I overlooked it NOT haveing Bose, I overlooked it NOT having Lumber. I WILL NOT overlook it NOT having Xenons!! Here is the deal I am willing to make. Tell me hwat you guys think: If you are willing to SEND me a set of new OR used Xenons in good condition, I will PAY for labor to put them on. Opinions? Comments?

The "funny" thing is that on the picture they put in the ad when you see the front of the car they have switch the lights on. It is the one and only where they did that... Strange isn't it ? I am really sorry for you as xenon lights are also a safety feature and that with my European experience it will be hard to sell a 4S or a 996 without them... Hope you will find a solution to your problem. I think that it will not cost you much to give a call to the seller of the car and explain the situation. If they are honest they should do something for you. It will then be time to think about legal action. Have a good day.

i can't tell the diff. either. i thought the "lens" is xenon. another thing is xenon auto-adjust itself when it turns on. kind of like "zoom"

You got a great car for a very fair price. As long as you can see the road at night, I wouldn't agonize over it. Did your check clear from Global?

The 50k has been available for a few days now, gonna call the bank to see if the check is confirmed. IT's been 1 week (4 or 5 b-days.)

smells bad, did the bank has check21? $$ should come very soon since your bank doesn't have to send the physical check to them to clearing......

Check is cleared.

Wow that blows. I would demand at the very minimum $2500 back. They are guilty of false advertising. It is black and white. I think both Bose and HID are two options that do lend value to a cars value. They need to take care of this.

I have a question. If XENON'S are such a hi ticket item ($4600 thru Porsche). Why doesn't KBB NADA or EDMUNDS include them as options to reflect the possible value of the car?

I knew that you can get a Litronic kit(porsche) for 996gen1 (99-01) for $1500. http://e-partssales.com/Merchant2/me...Code=POTE996CM I believed that I had seen online pricing for 996gen2 ones for around $2000. Anyways, it is NOT $4600....

I bought mine for $1095 shipped brand new from another P-Car dealer several years ago. Prices tend to range from $1100-$1500 on average.

Personally, I would not give them a break on any of it. They ADVERTISED these were on the vehicle and they are not. It is completely their fault and not yours. It doesn't matter if you did not initially check if the equipment was there. It does matter that the represented it was there and it clearly is not. Even if you don't care about lumbar on the seats and the Bose stereo, they still owe you for them.

I called a dealer. Its $4600 installed.

Wow... $4600 is harsh. I just had them installed on mine this week by a dealer for $2500 Canadian, parts and labor...

I have xenons in two of five cars. Frankly, I think more people are entranced by the bluish tint than anything else. Color perception at night is inferior to halogens (stop signs, for instance, appear a particularly muddled shade of brownish-green) , and both types suffer from the harsh cut-off zones required by DOT. This means that you have exceptional light straight ahead, but very little light bleeds into the outer zones. Anyway, that's not the point. The car was advertised as xenons, and you are owed some money. Personally, I'd pocket the check and enjoy the car as is.

What dealer is that? You can buy them for $1000-$1500 NEW all day long and install them yourself in less than 5 minutes!

how do you always find those outrangous "deals" ???

That's what it costs from Porsche. That would prolly include, brand new, factory WITH washers etc.... If you can find them for $1500, lemme know. I've been looking. I m gonna ask that they buy them for me at that price and have them shipped to me.

Factory Porsche Parts, Tequipment and Selection (Boutique) All at Dealer Cost Plus 15% Handling and Shipping Cost -- No Sales Tax! Phone: [phone removed] Email: [email removed] tell them rennlist people sent you there.....

Parktown imports, The Lou.

"User" sounds a little perjorative, as opposed to "Registered User", LOL! Maybe we're getting a message from our hosts!

HIDs/Xenons are not only significantly brighter than conventional headlights, they are in a much higher range on the light scale that is very close to natural light where our eyes work best. Their color is much easier on our eyes and provides much better true visibility than conventional halogens. Even with their tints, they are far closer to white light than any conventional halogen lighting system. Keep in mind that the tint is most noticelable from oncoming traffic looking at the light (the hottest part) instead of the projection of light on the road. The spread of the lights is dependant on the housing and reflector, not on the type of bulb being used. On high beams with the shutters open, our Bi-Xenons have a very pinpointed aim straight ahead and hence used conventional holgens for side fill. With the shutters closed, the beam pattern is much wider particularly in illuminating the right side of the road (curbs and signs). In one of my other cars I have upgraded my Halogens to Silverstars (much whiter and closer to HID's) halogen bulbs and added Catz Hyper-White Xenon driving lights. This lighting is still well behind the visibility I get from the Bi-Xenons low beams in my 996 or the HIDs in the G35 coupe I had before it.

Well, considering that the change coincided with a hissy fit in another thread it would not surprise me.

What are y'all getting so worked up about? ....and zman53, it is pejorative, not peRjorative.

I'm not sure why the lights have become and issue. I know that some people love them. Personally, I can take it either way, but wouldn't go out of my way to get them. As for whether the dealer "owes" Gant something on this, I'm not convinced that they do. As i said in my earlier posting, this was easily verifiable and was as easy as switching on the headlights and looking at them. Caveat emptor.

Guys... the Porsche Litronics Retrofit Kit (retail around $1100, shipped) is ONLY available for 1999-2001 cars with stock halogen headlights. As far as I know there is no retrofit kit for 2002+ cars. That's why you're getting quotes of $4600 installed -- that's basically the cost of new bi-xenon headlamps (left and right), wiring harnesses and labor for installation.

I mean no disrespect, but you were the one that called all Registered Users freeloaders... nice way to insult a large percentage of the community here.

Well? Are you not freeloading? According to Webster: to impose upon another's generosity or hospitality without sharing in the cost or responsibility involved. I have no problem with the freeloading nature of the "user" but when the rules are broken and then troll like rebuttals are brought forth, then we have a problem. ps. It is not an insult but rather an observation.

Dell, You are (and did in the previous thread) mixing up two totally separate issues. The person in question broke the rules and apologized. End of story. What was done was wrong and shouldn't have happened. I'm not going to comment on that aspect of the discussion, or the language used. I will comment on how you used a deroratory term to refer to members who do not have a paid subscription, but abide by the rules of this forum. There is nothing wrong with the definition you used, but the manner in which you used it is insulting. It is not your place to comment. Last time I looked you did not run these forums and did not set the rules. If the maintainers of this site choose to have everyone have a paid subscription, then then that is within their rights and they may do so and noone may complain, but, until that happens members without a subscription are still welcome and it is not your choice to change that. If you choose to insult those members who are here that abide by the rules and are not disruptive to the community, then I would say that you are being as anti-social as those that break the rules - it's just another form of rudeness. You're welcome to your opinion, but look in the mirror and realize that you don't set the rules and you don't run this place. Insulting those who abide by rules by using a broadbrush debasing comment to them makes you just as bad as those that you disparage. Just because you have 'Rennlist Member" under your name doesn't give you a license to be a little Hitler and sit in judgement of others. It is not my intent to start an argument, in fact, I'm done voicing my opinion. As I've said before, I usually have respect for your opinion, but in this case you were talking without authority and you should hold your insults to yourself until you're in a position to run this place (and get rid of the membership-optional status) and randomly ban people like me who disagree with something that you might say.

Hit a nerve did I? You must feel really guilty then about something that is actually not disputable. I make a comment in the Carfax theft thread when somebody made the observation that it is always the "users" that are doing this. To which I followed it up with a simple observation. Freeloading is not a negative term nor was it derogatory but rather a simple trait inherant to the somebody that "insert freeload definition here". The fact that you chose to be offended by the term is either your guilt or your thin skin. Not sure which. But for you to call me out in a thread that I attacked NOBODY is out of line. You really need to read what you type before you hit reply. I simply asked what y'all were getting worked up about. Hence.......there is nothing worng with WHATEVER is under your name. I'm done with this. Interpret as you wish. The facts are obvious though and they are undisputable.

Whoa guys ... peace !! Oreganet, I must say, very eloquently !! I don't think "users" are "freeloaders" since this is the internet ... we don't really pay for bandwidth on every website we visit (google/bbc/etc). Sure, in the end, the economics of most websites work out fine (ads, by selling products, sponsored, shared etc) but we don't pay everysite we visit and point noted. I think Dell was just a little human and a little peeved - let it be. A lot of the registered users consider this a "friendly" place to every now and then when someone kicks us something some people get upset. Lets just and let bygones be bygones ... PS: Yes, I have too much time to kill at work today ....

Dell, this is not about me. Look in the mirror. I've said my last words on this.

Thanks Sid. As I said, it's not my intent to cause trouble - I'm a peace loving guy, but I'm one of those idealists and I speak my mind when necessary.

Couldn't agree more. Not sure what happened to oraganet to attack me unprovoked but I responded and should have just ignored him. I'm well past it now. Time to move on......

Uhm...hi...can I get my lights now?

heheheh. I'm still here and active, even though Dell didn't like what I had to say and PM'd me to tell me he was putting me on his ignore list. Did you hear anything from Bent Tree?

He sais he wants to find out what the original window-sticker said. He's waiting to hear from Porsche, bla bla. I'll get 'em on Monday. If I have to, i'll take 'em to small claims and sue for 5k.

Well, at least he's willing to have the conversation, that's a start.

Are you a PCA member? They'll get you the certificate of authenticiy on request.

I guess I missed the hissy fit, and I never cause trouble. I was waiting to see how much I used the forum. As a newbie Porsche owner, I came here and learned things that could have helped me before I got my car. That alone is worth more than the $20. On the other hand, making Rennlist available to the non subscriber helps build the subscriber base. An informative guy like Dell, is certainly getting his money's worth, and he gives back a lot. I don't think he should call people on the fence freeloaders though. If "user" is a tier of service offered by Rennlist, then that option should be allowed to be utilized without prejudice. (waiting for spellcheck)

Just making a post to show off my NEW tag!! uhhh JENN, WARE'S MY NEW TAG??? I subscribed like 3 years ago and still don't have it!

zman53.....thanks for the kind words. I truly appreciate them To address a couple things. (1) I absolutely at NO point called anybody on the fence a freeloader. It was said in response to "registered users" using Rennlist to "steal" carfax reports. That's it. Do a search for the thread and you will see there was NOTHING condescending at all. (2) There is no such thing as a "tier" of service here on Rennlist. EVERYBODY belongs to renlist that gets a user ID. However, there is the ability to "join" Rennlist through contribution to help defray the cost of the site to make sure we have NO pop ups or ads cluttering the great forum we have here. As I have said many times. I don't give a damn who contributes and who doesn't. What I do respond to in a manner that the "users" don't like is when they abuse the site for their personal gain (ala the Carfax theft). Of course, most users when confronted with this use that reprimand as an excuse to make themselves feel better with something like "well if that is how I am going to be treated then I am NOT going to contribute......which I was thinking about but not now!" YEAH RIGHT! That just allows them to justify their "freeloading". Go back and search my posts and you will see that I do NOT discriminate whom I give assistance to. In the case or user oreganet, I have no idea who pissed in his Cheerios this morning but clearly he is rattled about something since he attacked me unprovoked. FORTUNATELY, while I can see that he has posted several posts since that I cannot and will not read them since he is on the ignore list for me. Should he care to contact me and apologize or explain WTF is wrong with him today then I can easily let bye-gones be gye-gones. .......and now back to our regularly scheduled programming. ......Gant, and word from the dealer? Have you contacted them yet?

Hey Gant!!! Just saw that you are updated....way to go Welcome aboard!

PM'd and apology given now that the situation has been clarified. Hopefully we can now put this behind us.

Got your PM. We're cool! Just a simple misunderstanding. Back to being the Type A's that we are

type A's... yeah, like there's a shortage of those in this place! Hey, opinions are good and valuable, but sometimes we get a little too passionate.

^ | | | | | Dell, previous post

I would drive my P into a wall and blame it on Dell!! He always starts a fight with everybody!! I have to state that the above is a joke...I wouldn't drive my P into a wall for any reason (unless a mis calculated corner!) and I love Dell (relax I am a married man!) and wouldn't blame him for anything.....he is a source of information and I paid my Rennlist membership for the next 2years!! Why do we always have to fight? and argue??

I love you too brokeback

Eeewww!

Back to the lights. It shouldn't matter what the original car had or what the tag/sticker said. They advertised Bixenons and Bose, it's part of the reason you bought it, and the car did not have it. May be an honest mistake, but it's one you shouldn't pay for.

I totally agree. I think when he finds out it DID NOT come with them originally, he will have nothing else to say. I think right now, he's just biding his time. When the time is right, I will make a very generous offer. Get me used lights in good cond. I will pay to put them on. If he doesn't agree, this will be a perfect small claims case. My quote was $4600, we'll make it an even $5000 with expenses.

That sounds just like ole' Bent Frame Imports to me.....steer clear of the shifty used car dealer

Heee Dell I am not living in the woods in NC .. I am living almost on the beach in the OC...so no brokeback business here......yet!!! And to back on topic....they got to give you what they advertised...they said litronix....they got to deliver!!! The hifi stereo...mmmhhhh...but if they advertised it they have to give it also.....make them bleed the f'rs....they always try to screw the buyer!! Now you got the law on your side...take them to small claims court! You will win!

w3rd!