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YOUR RESEARCHHow to remove transmission input shaft seal
Leading reported evidence
Check manual
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I checked the manual and that bearing is an angular contact bearing.
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Suggestion
When I get home, I will double check the service manual.
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Suggestion
The good news is that when your through we will all know how to replace the input shaft seal.
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Suggestion
Do the details happen to mention replacing the shaft seal.
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Suggestion · Original poster
If I could have found a pic if the area before I started and had seen how everything fit behind the seal I would have known not to use the hammer.
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with a Sir P 252 removal tool?
P252.jpg
The conical section has threads so I assumed I turned it to lock into the seal but it doesn't seem to go in far enough to latch on. Do I tap it in with a hammer? I don't want to damage any internals.
It'd be nice if the manufacturer provided instructions on how to use their product but I couldn't find any.
Anyone used one of these tools? Thanks...
I couldn't find anything in the AllData online manual. I tried pressing and turning and tapping with a deadblow while doing so. I guess I'll try again tonight.
Just called the dealer and asked for a price to R&R the seal and transmission mount if I delivered the trans to them - 2.5 hours labor they wanted to charge me! For what - 20 minutes work? Not a chance.
I'm wondering if the seal should have been set this far recessed from the lip of the case. The manual say it should driven "as far as the seal housing mounting face". That would mean it is too far in and maybe that's why the tool fails to grab the seal for extraction.
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I think I may have to go to one of the lever type seal extractors. I hope I can reach the seal with the tooth. If anyone has had a similar experience feel free to offer suggestions.
Now I wish I hadn't banged on the tool so hard with the hammer...
Didn't you suspect someone had pulled this trans before and worked on it before you? The silicone, missing bolts, etc? Maybe they drove the seal way too deep also?
Looks that way. Now I'm worried all the banging with the hammer may have damaged something inside, but all I see on the exploded view is the shaft. When I get the seal off I can see what the tool was bottoming out on and check it for damage.
In another thread someone had to force the seal into the differential case, remove the differential, and cut the seal off the shaft. It didn't sound too difficult but I hope it doesn't come to that.
I agree. In your first pic the seal looks too deep. Guess thats why tool cant grab it. You should be able to carefully pry it out in pieces. Good thing your taking care of it now. Great info for us. Now why did they pull trans before? Makes you wonder.
I agree. I arrived at both those conclusions also - especially to stop using the hammer!
Anyway, I went to Sears and bought a lever type seal puller and to Harbor Freight and bought a slide hammer. I came home and tried the lever puller first but there wasn't enough room either to fit the tooth under the seal or to pry it if it had fit.
Then I tried to fit the various hooks that came with the slide hammer but they were too big also. Next I drilled a hole, screwed in a sheet metal screw and tried pulling the seal with the slide hammer, but the screw pulled out - tried again in a different spot - same result.
Tried to cut it with a small set of wire cutters but the metal was too hard. Couldn't get a good hold with needle nose pliers.
By then one side of the seal was getting pretty mangled so I pried on it with a small pry bar and a screwdriver. I tried to be really careful and not damage either the shaft or, more likely, the aluminum seal bore. After some further mangling with the pry bar and screwdriver I was able to insert a hook and use the slide hammer to pull out the seal. Finally.
Although I suspected the seal was inserted in further than necessary, after removing the old seal it looks like the bore is countersunk for the seal to fit where it was. There is also a gap at the bottom edge of the bore that would preclude the seal being installed any further out than it was. At first I thought it had a piece broken out but upon closer inspection it was machined into the edge of the bore.
So I guess the SIR tool was never going to work without, as you say, cutting off a bit until it fit properly. When I was banging with the hammer the end of the tool was against the input shaft bearing. It doesn't have any markings or dents from the tool and appears undamaged so I hope it's OK. It would really, really suck to put everything back together and have the bearing fail.
It seems there is just no simple way to change that seal, unless the factory tool works better than the copy I have.
If there is damage to the bearing, it won't be at the point where the tool contacted the race but when the *****/rollers contact the race. All it takes is some small bimples and the bearingnis done. The queation is, were the hammer blows big ebough to do this?
I checked the manual and that bearing is an angular contact bearing. The bearing is on the inside with the race on the outside so the tool was against the race when I was banging on it. Since the race is pressed on with a hydraulic press it is highly unlikely the banging could have damaged it or moved it, especially since it was assembled and all the other press-on items were supporting it. Also the tool contacted the race evenly all around so the force was evenly applied.
I think this will end up a non-issue, but certainly not advisable. If I could have found a pic if the area before I started and had seen how everything fit behind the seal I would have known not to use the hammer. I'll post a few pics for posterity so others don't make the same mistake. Stupid, worthless tool...
I wanted to post a few more pics so anyone else tackling this task can see what they are dealing with and what to expect.
Here is the seal after I finally removed it.
photo(4).JPG
Here one can see the bore step-down in diameter. The outer diameter has the gap in it as shown in the next photo so the seal could not reside here. The middle diameter is where the seal sits. The inner diameter is where the bearing race for the input shaft resides.
photo(3).JPG
Here is the gap I referred to. One can clearly see the three steps of the bore diameter. Also note the steps in the input shaft, specifically the inner one where the seal will bear against the shaft.
photo(2).JPG
Hope this is helpful. I couldn't find any pics like this before I started this task but they sure would have helped me.
Also, I went to HD to pick up something to install the seal. I ended up with 1" dia galv pipe with a union to bear up against the seal. The union was the perfect size to support the seal, unfortunately the inside dia of the pipe was too small to fit over the input shaft.
If anyone can be specific about what they used to install the seal, besides the proper tool of course, it would be very helpful and appreciated.
I devised an ingenious tool (if I do say so myself) to install the seal. I took a section of 1" PVC electrical conduit that has a union formed in the end and the old guide tube. The guide tube would fit in the end of the conduit but the fit was much too tight to force it all the way in. So I heated up the flared end of the conduit with a heat gun and pushed the guide tube in until it bottomed out.
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Then I took a sch 40 pvc union and 1" to 1/2" adapter and installed them on the other end to give a surface to hammer on. A cap would have been simpler but the only ones available had a rounded end and I wanted a flat end to hammer on.
photo(7).JPG
photo(6).JPG
Now I will place the seal in the bore, slide the tool over the shaft, thread in the old bolts as a guide to keep the tool straight, and tap the seal into place. The lip on the old guide tube will keep the seal straight in the bore and provide a stop to prevent the seal from being driven too far into the bore.
Giddieup...
Last pic in the second last post. See that gap in the casting? That's where a flathead screwdriver should have been used to pry out the seal.
You need to do some cleaning up on that edge that got mangled during the seal removal. I wouls use a thin layer of RTV on the outer rim of the new seal. Last thing you need is a leak because of the damage on the housing. Nice DIY tool.
Great idea on the homemade tool so I feel bad Im late on this. The install tool is much, much cheaper (@$35) than the rather expensive seal removal tool. Im slowly collecting most of the Porsche specialty tools so if you dont need it, I might buy the SIR tool from you if its not too damaged. Again great improvised tool.
Luckily the edge is where the guide tube fits and not where the seal fits so it shouldn't have any affect on the seal. I was very careful not to damage the sealing surface.
I didn't actually see the gap in the case until after I'd removed the seal. If I had I could have tried your suggestion.
I'm debating on whether to use some of the Curil T, Loctite 574, or other suitable sealant when I install the seal. I noticed the manual specifically recommends the RMS be installed dry so I'm not sure whether I should use a sealant or not. More research...
I couldn't find an install tool anywhere. I'd be happy to sell you the SIR tool as long as you understand it'll never work without modifications. It's certainly not damaged in any way.
Actually I thought that gap may be a drip guide or flow for a leaky seal. Not sure if you can pry it out there or can you? The good news is that when your through we will all know how to replace the input shaft seal. Mine wasnt leaking, so I left well enough alone. I will look again when I pull the trans and engine out this winter.
And another note about specialty tools. Looks like the RMS tool is no longer available. Glad I got one. Let me know if you need it.
Not to be argumentative but why would Porsche provide a special tool and procedure to remove the seal if it designed the gap into the bore to remove the seal?
Just a question...
