Chain Tensioner Wear & Name That Sump Plate Debris

Hey guys, so in the process of replacing the IMSB, RMS, AOS, DMF, and clutch (as well as swapping in an X51 baffle and new spark plugs/coils while scoping the bores from both ends) on my 996.2 with just shy of 70k miles and as part of the process removed the two of three chain tensioners and the sump plate. Both tensioners have some scratching/scoring shown in the pics and wondering if this is a cause for concern or should be swapped with new ones? We also found the bit of debris shown in the pics in the sump plate. The black pieces feel like hard plastic but the clearish orange pieces feels more like sealant/glue (chain guides maybe?). Any thoughts where they may have came from?

I'm not an expert but I would say that those dark pieces are from the chain pads. Have you checked your cam deviations? Porsche says +/- 6, FSI says +/- 4. Mine were out of spec so my indy replaced the pads and chains.

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Yup, we checked cam deviations ahead of the install and all clear (pic below). Bought the car in March/2,300 miles ago and had similar values then as well (.88/-.02).

Mine pads (and chains) were replaced at 83k miles.

Scratching/scoring on the tensioner pistons would not be a concern to me as long as the engine is not rattling at startup, which rattling indicates the tensioners are not holding pressure and bleeding down on shutoff. Having said that, if I went so far as to remove said tensioners, I would certainly be installing brand spanking new ones on reassembly, but that's just me.

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I just replaced the tensioners on my 85K mile 996.2 and the old ones looked perfect with no scoring so I would say that the scoring is definitely not normal and those should be replaced. Don't forget new crush washers.

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@Ari Kilpel�inen Would you be willing to share what your cost was for having them changed? Or did you do it yourself?

^ It was done by local indy here in Finland. 10 hours labour and parts.

Look at the IMS paddle and see if the button is still there. Part #36.

OPs car does not have cam pad tensioners. It's a three chain engine.

We found out that the IMS paddle on my '99 C4 cab lost its button during the IMS Solution pre-qual. Checked the cam deviation and they were way out of spec. Gotta crack the case for that one. So I decided to bite the bullet and go ahead with an FSI rebuild. Good luck!

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You DON'T have to crack the case to replace that button. All you need to do is to buy a new paddle, remove the button from it and push it into hole where the missing button was. It's a very simple and really cheap fix. A new paddle is around $50 from the dealer.

We did check for the button and it was still there. We are going to go ahead and change out the tensioners as they may be the source of a rattle heard when the motor is shut off (never could tell where it was coming from but this seems like it may be the issue). As for the debris, sounds like changing out all the guides is a full engine out service and may as well replace the chains while you're in there. Given the good cam deviation numbers, hopefully I have some time to get to these but will continue to keep an eye on it. Really appreciate the help!

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The tensioners on the .2 engine are way cheaper than the $1300 per bank cost on the .1, so I agree, replacing them while you�re in there isn�t a bad idea at all.

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r these expensive tensioners what causes the start up rattle on a 5 chain motor?

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That�s what I�ve read.

$1300/bank on a 5-chain motor? I changed both of mine on my �99 recently for just a few hundred dollars. Or are we talking about different things?

Talking about two different things. The three tensioners are about the same for all M96 engines. 5 chain engines have the variocam pads that begin to wear and deposit hard brown material in the sump. This is an expensive repair because its easiest with the engine out. Cam covers have to come off and the engine will need to be retimed.

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I buy my genuine Porsche parts from Sonnen and/or Sunset. They were $900 - $1,000 per side last time I checked.

Oh man looks like fun times ahead. Been there done that when it comes to the joys of finding the plastic stuff in the sump.

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so im trying to understand all of this. I have posted in other threads about my planned winter maintanence. Im getting pretty close to bad #s on my crank angle and i have a cold start rattle. I was going to change the pads, tensioners and the 3 chains that can be done without splitting the block. So on an mk1 the variocam is attached to the pads/tensioner and need to be replaced too? anyone have a thead link or a parts for this kind of overhaul? I found this old thread, it shows old and new tensioners and they both fit a 3.4. Old r $1k and newer ones r $100? https://www.renntech.org/topic/37756...amp-chain-diy/ Can u now just replace the tensioner and pads seperate from the variocam? Im fairly confused at this point.

The variocam pads are controlled by an actuator. It is electrical. I would see no reason to replace these unless they were not functioning. I guess you could replace the chains, I did not. The replacement pads are $21 per bank. My pads with 30k

So i think i found my answer. Looks like the $1k parts are the variocam adjusters, there r also 3 differemt chain tensioners that r all around $100. To confuse things a little more is that there r 2 different chain styles that have matching pads/tensioners. i think im gonna have to keep digging so i get the correct parts

Here is what you can replace without splitting the case. Both banks #9 pads Both banks #6 chains #24, 35, 34 tensioners with new washers. You can test the actuators #10 to make sure they are functioning correctly with 12v. The really expensive part is the variocam tensioner and actuator #7, I don't think these typically have issues. https://www.design911.co.uk/pages/di...diagramID=2569

I think you can replace # 30 and #33 (the chain ramps) too without splitting the case.

Thx guys this is super helpful. How about 18, 19 and 22?

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No, no and no but you can replace 36 if you really need to.

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Questions - which would be most likely to cause noise first? Is it #24 because it drains down due to it's orientation (I think I read this somewhere). Does replacing just the seals do any good? I'm guessing no or they wouldn't have updated. If I ordered new tensioners are they the updated version without a chance of getting the old version. Thanks.

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It will be the most up to date part but to be sure, just call your local Porsche dealer and ask.

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Thanks for the info! Maybe I'm not remembering the conversation correctly. In any case, the cam deviations are way out and that's what made me decide to rebuild.

So, just to be clear... The 3 "chain tensioners" are all easily replaceable (although iirc 1 is sort of buried below the power steering pump/reservoir...) and they're not super expensive @ $125 - $160 ea. It's the vario-cam actuators (These are the things that the white - yeah, they start out white-/Brown plastic pads connect to) that cost around $1k or more each (there are 2) including the solenoids. The solenoids alone (which do fail on occasion) are in the $200 - $250 range (last I looked) but are easy to test, if not to change (on the 5 chain engine. the ones on the 3 chain engine can be changed without removing the cam covers). It's recommended that you change the chains out while you're in there as well - they only cost around $30 ea. and if they break (which they do) they'll take your engine out...

Im assuming 9 is not the pads for the variocam assembly? can u inspect the variocam assembly without pulling them. All my monitoring numbers make me believe that my seliniods r working but i am unsure of the pads. At 200k miles on the engine im not sure how much $ i want to invest into it as pm.

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Yes, #9 is the pads that wear out. Can be done easily on a lift by a pro in 4-6 hours. I have done it on the floor a few years ago, but took considerably longer ( and I'm now a lot older/slower). Most DIY'ers would not attempt it with engine in situ, or if they do attempt it say they would never do it again..lol

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well i gots the lift but i wss gonna pull the engine anyways to do the rms and other items. Im sure ill be leaning on u folks as i get into it.

So quick update - the car is back together with 3 spankin new tensioners along with IMSB, dual mass flywheel, clutch, RMS, AOS, spark plugs and coil packs. Camshaft deviations are close to where we started (still below 1 degree) and no leaks of any kinds from pulling the sump plate or swapping in a low temp thermostat and coolant flush. However, the car seems to be having issues with either the cam sensor, crank sensor or potentially a bad LUK flywheel. The car seemed to drive ok without much load under 3500 rpm and clutch pedal felt great but right around that rev range and higher, the RPM needle hesitates then there's a pretty dramatic loss in power followed by what feels like misfires. No CEL for 20+ mins of driving but it did seem have the same symptoms lower in the rev range when at higher speeds or increased load. The two stored codes are P0336 and P1341 per Snap On Diagnostics Tool, I still need to plug up my Durametric here soon but wanted to get anyone's thoughts while we have a few days before being able to troubleshoot again this weekend.

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The Vario Cam tensioner PADS are cheap, $20 each. The mechanism that they sit on and are part of the solenoid system is the expensive one. Both of these need the valve cover to come off on a 5 chain engine.

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You are rebuilding the engine only because of the cam shaft deviation?!?!? All the chain pads and even the chains (expect for the intermediate shaft chain) can be changed fairly simply. There are cam chains with master links available on the market. This would be waaaaaay less labour and cost than doing a full rebuild. Also, the camshafts can be adjusted bring the deviation back. Maybe someone was in there before you and adjusted them wrong. Heck it could be any number of things that doesn't justify a full rebuild. Obviously this info is too late for you but maybe others in the future will read it and think twice before they commit to a full rebuild because the camshaft deviation is out of spec.

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yep, my Indy charges ~$5500 total for this.

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Ouch!

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Yep, probably the biggest reason to go 996.2 imo.

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He must have replaced the pads and tensioners with the actuators for that price right?

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That or do it yourself.

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dporto - do you know if the bottom pass side (#24 on the diagram) is the tensioner most likely to make noise? Assuming so because it's orientation causes it to drain down soonest. I've got less than a second of clatter only on cold starts and if changing to a new tensioner eliminates even this I'm for it.

To Z996Z, what you described is problem with the VarioCam actuator(s) on one or both banks. Did you or did you not change those? Reading the cam variation degree will tell you something as well as actuating the Variocam solenoid. Plug in your Durametric and perform the tests. There should also be a cel code or two for this. The bad news is IF you have to change the actuator (not just the pads), it is quite a bit of a job. Perfectly doable with the engine in the car, just not fun at all.