A Cloud of Smoke after high RPM run??

My '02 996 just sent up a Big cloud of smoke from the exhaust for the 3rd time. 1st two time Were @ Watkins Glen in July, th 2nd day of DE. My girl & i ran back to back (green /yellow) groups, & after parking for lunch-restarted for a gas run to the Village & a Big blue cloud went out the exhaust-scary( not to mention the looks around me). Shut it right off. My instructor came over & after the normal places to look, we restarted it, some smoke but hardly any thing. Pressure was well up there & all sounded right & didn't smoke further, till again after another set of runs. Opinions sugested oil staying in the cylinders. Since all else was well we ran again & this time let the engine idle for 4/5 minutes befoe shut off. Seemed to work, as no further incidents till... Friend came over yesterday afternoon w/ his M3('02)& we swapped cars for a 4/5 mile jaunt. He pull into my garage & when I started it this Am, up went the "cloud" (in front of my bro-in-law, first time he saw it! ). Nice $85K race car! Can anyone shed light on this? Has it happened to U? Idling for a spell does the trick, but ... can this be considered normal? OK?(is this one reason why Turbos are to idle for a while?) (more on the Bimmer.. If you'd like my opinion, send me a privite e-mail unless you want to start a new thread) Thanks in advance for the feedback Bill '02 O. Red C2 (w/ sunroof) '91 C2 G. Red ( also w/ sunroof) '86 944 Graphite ( also w/ sunroof)( Sold in Feb) See them( Ihope.. under the letter "B")@ <a href="http://www.cvrpca.org/n_cvrmonly_b.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cvrpca.org/n_cvrmonly_b.htm</a>

How full was the oil? I think that for track us you should only be slightly above the minimum mark. If you have been burning that much oil you may need to change the spark plugs as well. Greg

Greg, thanks for the reply.Thought I was getting pretty long winded- but I should have mentioned that. Appx 6000 miles(then) & we filled it shy of the upper level mark. Today was right in the middle. (8000 miles). Exhaust pipes are a nice light gray/white. 15/50 or is it 20/50 Mobil 1. Bill

Greg you trackmeister!! I have a question for you. I just had an oil service done on my car and now it's filled to the top so I'll be taking it to the track Sept 20 and 22. I have always tracked my car when its about 1/2 to 3/4 full so what you think I should do? If I need to remove some oil-how would I do it? Regards. Mike

Mike, I had the same question, with a slight twist. Check this thread: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001905" target="_blank">Oil and DE</a> Maybe Greg has another answer as well. I now have "topsider" on order.

Palting-we both have the same concerns-never experienced any track problems when 1/2 to 3/4 full but makes me kinda nervous when its at max level from dipstick to readout. With high thermal loads tracking and amount of expansion I'm worried something mite blow : (. Topsider sounds like an alternative. Well I plan to get my Pagid sport pads plus steel brake lines put in at the dealership and bleed the brakes with ATE super blue(do I really need to bleed the clutch too?) so may ask them if they can remove a little oil if it's warranted/confirmed to do so for the track. Regards. Mike

Buck, You may have a more serious problem than too much oil. I would check with the dealer. Mike, I would just fill it a 1/2 quart under the full mark. Our cars have enough oil that a 1/2 quart won't make a difference. Since your car is full I would either drain the oil or use a "topsider" to pull some out. If the DE is a couple hundred miles you may burn off enough or if you have done DE's with a full amount of oil you may be fine. If anyone is interested in going to Putnam Park (outside Indianapolis) the first weekend of October let me know, I can fax you an application. Friend of mine is putting on a DE and it is a lot of fun (can you say shifter carts ), more track time than the usually school also. Greg

Mike, let me know what the dealer says regarding oil level and tracking. I drained out the old brake fluid and replaced it with the "Gold". Same as the blue, except that you don't get the permanent blue stain. I did not bleed the clutch. I've been considering Pagids, but the OEM C4S brakes seem to hold up just fine. Maybe I just haven't reached the expertise yet where Pagids would be needed . Greg, I'd love to go to Putnam. For now, it's just a bit too far for me. I'm definitely doing Nelsons this coming weekend, then Mid-Ohio Oct. 19-20, and possibly Beaver Run Oct 5-6 and/or 11. Maybe I'll see you there? I understand I missed you at Mid-Ohio when MVRPCA was there! Met a couple of your buddies there.

Greg, Thanks for the input. Will be checking the oil level tjis afternoon, but I'll see what the dealer says tommorrow( bring it in/take 2 asprin/ leave it overnight). Maybe I should push for a X51 kit! Fat chance- Has this happened to anyone else?? Buck <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Buck you may want to check the archives on that-I vaguely remeber someone had a similar problem but don't remember the specifics of it. Does smoke come from both sides or one side only on the exhaust. If that has gone on for that many times on the track you should get that checked out soon. Good luck. Mike

Palting, Are you in the Cleveland area? I have never been to Nelson Ledges but most of the reviews leave a lot to be desired. When you have to alter your lines to avoid the potholes and iit would take me over 6 hrs to get there Putnam is a great track MVRPCA is a great group and a fun event. I tried something different and went to a Ferrari event.

Greg, yes, I'm in the Cleveland area. The potholes in Nelsons are gone, but the curbing is gone too. I've used the patches from the pothole repairs as markers for my line . I've heard they've recently repaved some sections, so I may have to devise new landmarks for the driving line. I just can't resist Nelsons since it is so close.

996FLT6, It's happen twice @ WGlenn(July) & once the day before yesterday(FRiday) After high RPM (4-6K) through some twisties & a small 1/2 mile run through 4th gear, for 3-4 miles total. Really don't get on it much, but ya gots to every now & then oil level this afternoon was 1/2 way between the middle & lower dot. No problems today, but didn't push it. Will be in touch w/ the dealer tommorrow! Anyone hear anything please give me a heads up. Thanks Bill

It happened to my 99 C2 at Portland International Raceway. Same situation, fast hot session, sat for an hour then clouds of blue smoke on restart. The 3.4L motor specs more oil than the 3.6L motor and my dealers head tech tells me the combination of thermal expansion of the oil, full oil and the fact that the one scavenger pump had trouble keeping up, leaves oil in the valve train which drops in the cylinder on restart hence the blue smoke. My tech told me not to worry about it (yeah right!)I have just broken in my 02 C4S and I will be heading back to PIR next month, I don't anticipate a repeat as the 3.6L motor has more scavenging capacity. Porsche sells an oil kit for the 3.4L but I'm not sure about the 3.6L

I know this is an old thread - but I just had the same happen on my '02 996 at Laguna Seca this weekend - 20 minutes high speed run - let car sit for 90 minutes and then lots of smoke out of the exhaust on restart. I didn't let the engine idle after cooldown lap - someone said you need to do that. On run home and subsequent start - no problems. Yep, oil is definitely getting into the intake (via new AOS?) or cylinders somehow. I was running street tires (Sumitomo) and stock suspesion - not ultra aggressive on corners or braking - but definitely much harder cornering than on the street. This was my first time on the track in this car - back-end becomes light as you go over hill on front straight (I had PASM kicking in a couple of times under breaking there - with back end wagging at 100+MPH) and PASM caught the back-end coming around on a couple of the lower speed corners - but car is overall amazingly stable, grips well - and was keeping up well with with a 993C4S & 2011 gen Cayman S. (my targa model has softer springs and narrower tires than standard C2 I think - plus slight weight penalty). One guy totaled his cayman at the corkscrew on one of the last runs of the day - crazy to push it that hard at a DE event - but I did see a few spins and offs !

targa996, was there a question in your post, or are you just confirming that you blew out a cloud of smoke? If "lots of smoke" means you were laying down a James Bond-esque smokescreen, this is not right and needs to be looked into. If it means "it was enough that I was kinda embarassed," that's much more common and not (in my opinion) something to panic about.

Yeah - the question is "how much smoke is normal "in this condition ? It lasted a few seconds (but yes - a lot of smoke) - after that OK - and no subsequent problems so far ....

I posted this earlier today on another thread: "FWIW I've tracked my car 6 days, 30 sessions so far and only noticed what appeared to be AOS induced smoke during one session. That particular day I was running my oil level totally full (on the gauge and at the notch). It was minimal and didn't affect my oil level. My last track day I went back to around a � below the full notch and didn't notice any smoke. If that becomes more prevalent in the future I will probably invest in the Motorsport AOS." It was my 5th day, 1st time at LS, that I noticed smoke during a session and on start up after that session. It's the only time I've tracked the car with oil at the full notch. 2nd time at LS last thursday, no evidence of it in spite of running faster laps (but running a lower oil level.) I think you're OK.

I had several instances of post-autocross smoky startups with my 986. I never had any other symptoms or indications that anything was amiss. People more cautious than I may advise differently, but the M96 is known to do this every so often. In my book, it's filed under No Big Deal.

I had the mysterious blue cloud of smoke happen once after track run with my X51 equipped motor this year. Ha ha I smoked out the Corvette parked next to me in the paddock. After checking all the usuals visually, I went back out with no issues. Trust me, I had my eyes on the gauges the whole time. Coming back in, I hunted down one of the Porsche tech specialist that knows these motors well. When I told him what happened and asked if I should be concerned he basically said "that's nothing to worry about. These motors like to burp once in a while". I've completed five more track events since that one in March and it hasn't happened again. I now typically run my oil level with one or two bars below full when cold. It comes up a bar when the oil gets 'track hot'.

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What is probably going on is the AOS is being overwhelmed by the amount of oil vapor hard running puts into the crankcase. The AOS passes this oil vapor through and it is routed to the intake. The oil vapor has to make a sharp turn and some of the oil droplets in the oil vapor impact the wall of the intake. This wets the wall with oil. (This happens in engines driven on the street too. Techs have told me it is a rare event to open up the intake and find no signs of oil wetness.) If you take a cool down lap and then let the engine idle this gives the engine time to shed its heat load and for temperature gradients to moderate. It also will have the intake heating up some which helps the oil on the intake walls to run down and be burned by the idling engine. If you instead shut off the engine right away, the oil will still run down but of course collect on top of the closed intake valves or run into the combustion chamber if the valves are open. Then upon the next engine start you get the cloud of oil smoke. Absent any other signs of engine distress: CEL, rough idle, hunting idle; there nothing wrong. You can lessen the odds of this smoking happening by ensuring the oil is fresh -- I was told/taught when showing up at the track or auto-x to have fresh oil in the engine -- and that the oil level is not too high. I would not have a problem with the oil level at the max line measured when the oil was up to temperature. I would not be in favor of running the oil below this max line as an attempt to prevent the smoking. While the smoking can be an embarrassing event it is not harmful to the engine. However, running the engine low on oil while on the track could result in the engine oil pump ingesting if not air oil that is not sufficiently defoamed. If either of these occur, this can be extremely harmful.