C4S - PPI tomorrow...

Hi all, Have a refundable deposit down on a black/black, no mods, 1 owner, 2002 C4S with 40k miles. Straight base build sheet, so $81k at inception. Clean carfax. PPI is tomorrow, and barring anything really funky (we have a severance clause on the deposit $ for repairs exceeding $2k), likely delivery on Thursday. Seller also throwing in 4 Blizzacs since they won't fit his new ride. Non oil change or tire service history consists of: New model manufacturer recall in 2004, with car at 5k miles, transmission replaced (under warranty) New RMS at 33k miles (2009) Intermediate flange seal replaced (2010) New ignition coils at 38k miles (2013) Owner drove it 4-5 times per week but mostly just to his office which is ~7 miles away (not necessarily a good thing). Weekends he would take it on longer drives (though given the total miles, not very long). Given the above, any last minute thoughts/concerns jump out, or anything specific I should ask for from PPI shop? Figure RL is as good a resource as any for a sanity check before jumping into the 996 pool. Thanks. Look forward to hopefully contributing more to forum as owner in near future.

You are doing all the right things. Porsche dealer doing the PPI ? Ask for the number and type of engine over revs.

Sounds like a good prospect for ownership especially if the PPI is thorough. No doubt you've driven the Porsche and verified that everything works, and passes your inspection. Let us know the PPI outcome, good luck with your purchase.

Addendum: Seller today writes clarifying email on known issues that don't "count" against the deposit severance clause. How nervous should I be about tons of deferred maintenance coming my way and will PPI pick enough of it up to warn away? Direct Quote from seller below: "One other thing we discussed is the small amount of play in the flywheel. No safety or performance issue. I have never changed brakes of course, so at some point they will need to be done. Also, car is due for an oil change. "

All DMS flywheels have "a little bit of play" TSB 911 (996) 8/02 1360 Dual Mass Flywheel Check procedure http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...-procedurepdf/ Can the dual Mass Flywheel be twisted approx. 15mm in each direction (0.590”), left/right, and does it return to approximately its initial position? If so it is good. Can the DMF be twisted beyond dim stated above without a noticeable increase in the spring force? Or is it fixed (no rotation?) if so bad

So far you are describing minor maintenance. Do you get all records since new? What if ANYTHING does the owner think it will need in the next 12 months? I went through 2 pages of questions on my turbo purchase before pulling the trigger. If you've been reading this forum, you already know this model's weak points. 2002 Turbo - Basalt Black Metallic / 2003 Carrera 4S - Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 - Rust Red

I wouldn't worry too much about over-revs based on the pathetic mileage. Nice find - if it checks out, that's a score.

have PPI tech check for camshaft deviations *limit is 7 degrees max. if car has no records of IMS upgrade i strongly suggest the upgrade - i know the IMS subject gets beat to death but i'd change yours if there is no record of it being done and hammer the seller on the sale price - your mileage is in the 30K-60K "danger zone" for IMS failure. a car with a price tag of close to $30K should have the insurance of the upgrade if theres no documentation of it being changed.

delete

Thanks to all who responded so far. Update: just heard from PPI/dealer. They're waiting to speak to the owner of car before divulging full results to me due to finding a few "mishaps". What???? Made assurances that my card wasn't going to be charged (yet) for the PPI and that we'd speak again in morning. Turns out, the dealer I used for PPI is also the one where seller's new ride is coming from. Seller had done no maintenance at this shop (in the records I reviewed Monday), so a bad coincidence (and one that probably should have been divulged). The mechanic did reveal one "mishap" however: leaking RMS. A diagnosis made curiouser by RMS history of car already.

Yeah i wouldnt fully trust the place thats trying to sell the PO a car to do my PPI. As they might hide major stuff from you in order for you to purchase the car which make it easier for them to sell him a car.

This doesn't sound as though it's going to be a fair deal. Having said that, don't you owe them for the PPI, even though you didn't know the shop was about to sell the guy a new car?

Dealers due terrible ppi's. I would just pay an indie $300 for a few hours with the car. You are buying one hour with the dealer vs three hours with the indie.

Pontifex4, Yes, absolutely. That's what's so weird about this: they didn't divulge results to me, even though I ostensibly was the one who "paid" for PPI. Deal not passing the smell test currently, but tomorrow brings a new day. Thanks for thoughts.

Quotes source post: 11450984

About 20 years ago I had a 911 stolen by a potential buyer. I left the car at a porsche dealer for PPI. The dealership released the car to the "buyer" who came early to pay for the PPI. I never saw that car again. Dealership is playing both sales sides in your case. But they also have a liability responsibility to the car owner.

I had something similar happen to me during a PPI, however, it was the other way around. I was selling the car and the shop was a family friend to the buyer (I found out after the fact.) This was for an E36 M3 and low and behold, the shop's PPI states "The car needs a new engine." Magically, a used motor appears in the shop. I declined the sale and enjoyed it for another 2 years.

I've done this a number of times and the person paying for the PPI has full rights to it. And, it is up to the payer of the PPI if they want it disclosed to any one else. If they discussed your PPI with the seller without your permission and without showing it to you I would not pay for it.

Update: so to keep the sale of the new 911 to my potential seller alive, the dealer is offering to do the full IMS/RMS retrofit, at no "cost" to seller, as part of the deal. Said they've done "tons" of the retrofits in last few years. There are still a number of other "minor/major" (their term, not mine) issues that need to be done, as per the PPI results (and as told over the phone by mechanic): Brake rotors need replacing (pads are OK), brake fluid, oil filter drain and change, pollen filter, drain radiator, left front trailing arm is worn resulting in a small pull, 2 front tires are worn on inside (alignment issue), and an undercover body piece needs replacing. Don't know how the above issues have been itemized yet, but the total is ~$4500, NOT including the IMS retrofit. I think I'm down to 4 options: 1.) Walk away completely 2.) Have dealer to everything and try to negotiate some % of the remaining $4500 in repairs off sale price 3.) Dealer do PPI, and bring rest to indy closer to me, and who I'll likely be using going forward (try to negotiate price) 4.) Negotiate a big slug off seller's price, and have an indy do everything needed... Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Talking again to all parties in AM. Thanks.

The stuff on the "major/minor" list - except for the trailing arm, which I don't understand, can all be addressed for $600 or so in parts if you do the labor yourself. You didn't mention DIY as an option, so maybe that's not your thang. The stuff listed isn't out of the ordinary for a 12 year old car - but it does seem like there's a bit of deferred maintenance. If you really like this specific car, I'd consider getting the IMSB done and deal with the rest of the stuff yourself (or try to negotiate some additional $$ based on the outstanding items). If you're NOT totally sold on this car (I'm guessing you're not, since option #1 is to walk) - just walk. There are a lot of 996s on the market, and some of them will be meticulously maintained - which this car clearly isn't. Unless, of course, you're getting a SMOKING deal - I didn't see that you mentioned the selling price.

How much do you like that car? If you really like it, negotiate. The PPI is your negotiation point.

Thanks 5CHN3LL, I'm a few months in to the search, and have spent a slug of time. Car checks a lot of boxes of what I was looking for, was definitely babied (perhaps too much), and with these fixes likely could be a great car for many years. My DIY capabilities are near zero (I probably know which end of a screwdriver to use, but that's it). If I can split remaining maintenance (or have seller negotiate it at cost prices with dealer), I'm inclined to continue. Price was 29k pending PPI results. Thanks again.

For what it's worth, I paid $26,500 for an 04 C4S Cab (106,000 miles) with many of the same issues. I did many of the small repairs myself with help from other enthusiast, this forum, rennlist and etc. IMHO I would negotiate the seller down another 1k or so. If not keep looking. I know the C4S market 02-05 is getting very tight now for a car with that low milage for under $30,000. I think there is some future collectability in these particular models, however I bought my car to just enjoy and keep for a very long time. Therefore I was not to overly concerned about the milage. I think you will be okay getting all the repairs done and still have some equity in your car moving forward, if that is a concern. You can still drive it another 30-40k miles and get a decent resale out it. Some things poped up after I bought the car, the water pump went out within the first 1,500 miles, no way to PPI that and I also recently replaced the AOS, belt, tires and few other misc. items. So expect to spend a little more even after you get all the stuff ( RMS/IMS) done, just part of the P car experience. Since then the car has been bullet proof and I drive like I stole it regularly. Keep us posted!

Update: C4S purchased after some email tennis/negotiation, title in hand, car for pick-up on Wednesday, post IMS retrofit. Will post pics when I get car to house. Thanks to all who contributed on the thread. P.S. We did the exchange at a dealer in NJ. Guy (not seller) was picking up his 2014 GT3 (which was obv sweet) while I was there. Before he drove it off the lot, had dealer replace the pumpkins.

Great HallEYA and welcome to the club. Post detailed pics soon. I can never seem to get enough of looking at C4S's, lol. Any mods planned?