First Porsche purchase semi-bad experience

I finally bought one of my dream cars, a black on black 1999 C2. Once I saw the car and test-drove it, I fell in love. During the test drive, the car ran great. I did not suspect anything wrong with it. The owner seamed trustworthy and honest so I took his word for it when he claimed the car never gave him any problems. I made him an offer and he said he would sleep on it. The next day he called me and accepted my offer. Two days later I went out for a drive and my temp gauge started blinking. I immediately pulled over and checked the coolant reservoir and found a chocolate milk looking substance. I am suspecting the problem is the infamous cracked head. The car does have 129k miles so I think it would be best to rebuild the engine. Fortunately the previous owner gave me the option of buying the car back or pay a portion of the rebuild cost. Since he gave me a really good deal on the car I accepted his offer to pay a portion of the rebuild cost. Anyone have any recommendations for reputable shops that rebuild engines in the Southern California area?

Welcome and bummer about your experience. But at least looks like a "happy ending." Lots of good shops, pretty sure the SoCal peeps will chime in soon. here's one that I have read/heard a lot of good things about : http://www.callasrennsport.com/ P.S. Curious if there is a written/binding document that legally obligates the seller to pay a "portion" of the rebuild cost?

Sorry to see this and hope you get it sorted out relatively painlessly. The story is quite interesting though. If the car was truly ok before and you broke it in two days, there is really no moral or legal obligation of the seller albeit quite a coincidence. If the car was bad before and the seller knew it, I would not expect hime to offer any help now that you'vebought the car. So perhaps it's truly a coincidence the car broke in 2 days.

Btw, any coolant in the oil? I hope not. Also whatever you do, you have to act fast as the oil will start eating all the rubber parts it touches. Are you sure it'll still be a good deal after the rebuild? It can range from a few k's to $15k full rebuild depending on what they find. I would seriously think about getting my money back and start over unless he sold you the car for the price of a roller ($3-5k).

I don't know if its too late, but I would try and get my money back in your situation. Rebuilding that motor is going to cost you half or more of the cost of the car. Whatever you decide good luck.

Exactly. Still sounds too good to be true the seller will just take the car back and fork over the money already in his pocket. The net to the seller will be someone drove his car for 2 days and made it a roller!

The guys at Callas Rennsport are awesome. I had Tony and his team help with an E46 M3 PPI. Extremely thorough. In the end, a good deal turned out too good to be true. I ended up with a 996.

I did get the car for what a roller cost so even with a rebuild it would not hurt the pocket too bad. I checked the oil and luckily there is no water in it. The reason he was willing to buy the car back is because he had another buyer that wanted the shell and aftermarket parts. I hope to find a shop and tow it there by this weekend. I will give Callas Rennsport tomorrow see what they say. Thanks everyone for the advice and shop recommendations. Anyone have other shop recommendations?

Could this be something as simple as the air/oil separator gone kaput and not a cracked head as you suspect? I mean would a failed aos produce a chocolate coolant color? I don't know but just asking...

Sounds to me like you won't be hurt $ wise either way and that's a good position to be in. Perhaps the seller di in fact know that there was a problem, at least he's stepping up to help resolve it. GL

Quotes source post: 11451495

+1 Not saying it is the AOS, but there have been plenty of incidents of people on here posting "Oh crap, my engine needs a rebuild" only to find out it is something much less sinister. So, take it to a competent shop and cross your fingers. It's easy to default to the 1,001 modes of complete engine failure paranoia. Maybe it is a CEF, but maybe not. Keep us updated. And, if you got it for the price of roller yet the seller is going to kick back some of the purchase price . . .

Vision in Laguna Hills has a high quality engine shop. http://www.visionmotorsports.com/shop_rebuilding.php

Dignose the problem so you are 100% sure what caused this. Don't assume it needs a rebuild.

Then you should be fine money wise and you will know you have a good motor after repair. Good luck with the rebuild. Hopefully it's no worse than a cracked head (sounds like so).

Quotes source post: 11451853

After reading the posts on intermix problems especially on 99-01 I'm just suspecting it would be a cracked head. I have called a few shop and more than one tech told me since my car does not smoke it is less likely a bad AOS. Also the previous owner does not remember if he ever changed the clutch or IMS either so I'm guessing it was never done. The owner didn't really know much about the car after 5 years of ownership. I'll give them a call thanks

your experience is a great example of why a pre-purchase inspection is a must when purchasing any porsche. this is a bummer and since you don't know the seller, how do you know he will honor his word and fork over $8K for 1/2 the rebuild?? maybe if you get the cash upfront it will happen after all, if you paid $8K for the car which is approx the price of a roller, why would he basically "give" his car away?? somethin smells fishy

If you truly paid "roller cost" for this car I seriously doubt you will ever collect any rebuild assist $$$ from the seller. Hope I'm wrong but I find it very hard to believe he's going to shell out any rebuild money on a bargain priced 99 996 but good luck.

Run, don't walk to get your money back. The world is full of good running examples, and it's a buyers market. This story doesn't add up figuratively or financially.

Quotes source post: 11452096

Doesn't really matter much now about the IMS if you are in it for the rebuild.

Quotes source post: 11452110

x2

Quotes source post: 11452110

PPI wouldn't have saved the OP if it just happened to him. Not all PPI's are equal some are more involved than others. I thought a PPI would save me some grief over buying a car in another city, but I still ended up having problems after taking delivery.

Quotes source post: 11452066

Definitely ! So what does the oil look like ? That alone should tell someone if you're getting coolant in it & seems you would have at least one cyl misfiring if a cyl is cracked . I've had a few motors /w a cracked head or block (no p cars) & it's quite obvious looking at the oil which will show a greater qty on the stick as the coolant level goes down. Also a plug or comp check will show poor or no combustion to a cracked cyl . Bob 01 C4 31 Ford cp chp & ch, 302/350 40 ******, 302/350, IFS 38 Ford cp, 327/350, IFS 57 Belair 62 356B --long ago

The OP said the seller is willing to pay "a portion of the rebuild cost" so that could be anything from 1% to 99%. Hard to judge without knowing the %. But I agree the situation is quite strange. I guess even if the seller doesn't pay anything, the OP is still OK since basically he paid the price of a roller and got a roller. A fair deal.

Quotes source post: 11452299

This is exactly how I am trying to think about it. I was stressing about it at first but I am accepting the fact that I bought a roller. At the price I bought it for, I wasn't expecting a perfect car and I was just happy he accepted my offer.

I would suggest that if you know about mechanics and want to fix it yourself then keep it. Otherwise I would just return it or sell it. You are not in minor leagues here, these engines are expensive and shops charge a lot to fix them because they are Porsche's... There is a topic on these forums about a guy that fixed a cracked head himself for around $1000 if I recall correctly. I think he sent the cylinder head to a reputable machine shop and they removed material from the cracked area and added new material. If he sold the car to you for 8k, I highly doubt he will give you any money to fix it, it sounds fishy. These cars go for at least 15k (high mileage).

Quotes source post: 11452381

I figured seeing how composed you are I think most people would have freaked out by now.

Quotes source post: 11452096

Oh he remembers, he just won't admit he didn't do it. I'd be pissed too, but also kicking myself for not getting a PPI. You win some, you lose some..it's always a gamble.

Quotes source posts: 11452422, 11452426, 11452528

I am mechanically inclined but I do not have the appropriate tools nor the time to work on a Porsche. I am hoping for the best. I was super freaked out seeing the car on the tow truck. After speaking to friends and telling them how much I bought the car everyone said the same thing and agreed I should just keep it and rebuild. The car also has tasteful mods that I would have done anyway so that eases the stress a little also. I should have mentioned this earlier but I have been searching for a black on black c2 coupe for months. Most of the cars I've come across were overpriced or sold before I could even make it out to look at them. So I guess that is also influencing my decision on keeping the car. I should have gotten a PPI but I figured the car was such a good price, I would have been willing to take the risk. I agree this purchase was definitely a gamble.

Quotes source post: 11451853

Agree, contact my friend Dwain at Vision. PM me and I will give you my name for a reference.

I will go ahead and ask what I SUSPECT has been on our minds (and you can choose to NOT answer it at all): how much did you exactly pay for this ROLLER ?? Heck, what is a FAIR/DECENT "ROLLER PRICE FOR A ROLLER" to begin with? Under $10K??? Nonetheless, best of luck.

Quotes source post: 11452210

+1. If you have an opportunity to get your money back, do it! Any way you slice it, your net is back to zero as opposed to being in a "hole."

If you paid more than $5K, it wasn't a "roller" price.

Quotes source post: 11453541

you've been spending too much time in the fiat forum again - where do you find great condition 996 rollers for $5K?? - where you been?? $5K is boxster money you have to fork over at least $7-8K for a nice 996 roller

This seems weird. A Running 996, test driven and roller cost? Those are all red flags. I would have taken it for a PPI but its too late for that. The first gen 996 has a few issues. Cracked head is one. I would look to IM motorsports to put in an updated engine and Flat6innovations at http://flat6innovations.com . Replace the whole engine. I'm telling you I have seen the damage that a cracked head and or sleeve can do. If you want to go cheap, which I wouldn't, go and find a head on ebay or used car place and change the head gasket Hot dip the engine and rebuild the side that is cracked. I would redo it all. Pistons, sleeves and heads. Bump it up to a 3.6 with new piston and sleeves. Good luck. Robert

I should know better, but isn't this whole whine a little weird ? The buyer doesn't even know what the problem is which might be something simple . Kinda strange all that is discussed is major bucks for an unknown ? Bob 01 C4 31 Ford cp chp & ch, 302/350 40 ******, 302/350, IFS 38 Ford cp, 327/350, IFS 57 Belair 62 356B --long ago

oil in coolant is sort of a major issue - BUT since buyer is unwilling to disclose buy price who knows whats going on?? this entire drama sounds fishy to me - but drama can be fun and i like to play

Quotes source post: 11453832

You have an idea of what I bought the car for. I appreciated all your opinions but I made a calculated decision to buy the car because I have been searching for a black on black c2 and I would rather have a car that I know has a rebuilt engine. So whether I pay $15k-$25k total after the rebuild it is worth it to me. At least I know that I bought the car I have been looking for and I have the piece of mind that the engine is rebuilt. UPDATE: Yesterday the seller and I did some negotiating, he offered me a set amount and I picked up the cash last night. It's not half of what a possible cost of a rebuild is but its enough to buy a new set of nice rims and tires.

like pulling teeth but thanks for giving us a rough estimate. now i know you paid more like $10 or $11K because you refuse to reveal the true price and are embarrassed since you did post this ridiculous senario to the forum. you also wouldn't have referred to it as a semi-bad experience if you paid $8K, after all, you said you intended to rebuild the engine anyway. you would have been waaaay ahead of the game dollar-wise if you simply purchased one of the 1000's of cabs for sale with either new engines or IMS update. you spent $10K (which i still guess is $1k lower than you paid)on a car needing an engine w/129K miles. you will pay $16K for a proper rebuild - thats a total of $26-$27K you will have invested in a car w/129K miles on the chassis. you could have saved a lot of money buying a well maintained example instead of all the hooop la

Hey jdm538, as long as you are happy, that's all that matters. If you put $26,000 into that car and you drive it for 5 years and sell it for $15,000, I say that's the best $11 grand you'll ever spend. Plus, after a full rebuild, your maintenance costs for at least a couple of years are going to be near zero, so you'll save a little money there. Get it fixed, enjoy the car and don't give it a second thought.

I bought my '99 roller 2 years ago for $5K. Black on black with LSD and a 3 spke wheel. Its a driver's car. Tore the engine apart, replaced some bent valves, refreshed the heqds, new vario cam.pads, gaskets, a good clutch, bought a hybrid ceramic IMS bearing that I made to fit and been on the road for 2 years. Total cost was $8500. A'99 996 roller is $5K and I'm not the only one that bought one for that much.

OP, with it being a '99 and having 129k, just remember to budget for all the extra's that come with the higher mileage vehicles outside of the engine(ball joints, wheel bearings, end links, shocks, etc). These can bite you in the rear and creep up real fast on you if you're not expecting it.

We should take it easy on the OP. He's just learned the hard lesson of why the 996's can be so costly to own. You guys are probably right that he will end up with a $28,000, 130,000 mile, 15 year old 996, thats practically worthless. As Alpy pointed out, thats not even counting all the drivetrain and suspension costs for that mileage. Personally, if I didnt have the skills to do the rebuild myself, I would cut my losses and pass it on as a roller (which it now is).

Quotes source post: 11454716

But it'll have a nice set of wheels and tires...rolling (literally) in style. I hope OP will share the build/rebuild/whatever thread.

Assuming a nice set of rims and tires cost what, $2k? So the cost of the car drops to $8k, plus $15k for the new motor = $23k. Not terrible for a car with a new motor that the OP likes.

Hey lets think positive! He could make it a great DIY project like Imre did and have the satisfaction of knowing its done right. Only difference is that Imre knew what he was buying, I dont think the OP did.

Quotes source post: 11455039

I will be dropping the car off today. Thanks everyone for the shop recommendations. After calling and visiting numerous shops I have narrowed my decision to 9XX motors in Long Beach. I read good reviews on this forum. Jason the owner seemed very knowledgeable and he gave me the best quote for the rebuild. The fact that the shop is very close to home is also convenient. I will ask if I can document and take pics of the rebuild process. If so I will create a rebuild thread.

Wait, what????? You bought a roller with the intention of having a shop repair it? Do you realize what this is fixing to cost you?

See the rebuild vs a refresh thread. 9XX will repair the intermix and refresh the rest. The OP will have a nice car for a reasonable cost and he should drive the crap out of it.

Quotes source post: 11454989

i've never seen a 996 roller under $6500 - show me now i know your stuck in your little bubble but majority of people on rennlist don't repair their cars - you are in the small majority who do - anyone who doesn't wrench is going to spend lots more money buying a roller and rebuilding/replacing engine unless they dump a used engine in the hole which is a crapshoot

Quotes source post: 11455696

Can't go wrong with Jason over at 9XX Motors. He does great work and does it right the 1st time. Like ltusler said the final out come will be a great running car at a reasonable cost.

2 years ago I sold my 996 with a blown (non-rebuildable) motor for < $5K. Why would anyone pay much more than that when replacement motor options start around $10K?

Quotes source post: 11455029

It is the precise version of a world-class sports car that he wants, and only would be worthless if it does not provide him with lots of fun miles down the road. We also do not know that the entire engine needs to be rebuilt -- presumably, most with a one-way intermix do not (cracked head or the like, versus d-chunk or whatever). Let's hope that your rather miserable perspective does not catch on further.