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YOUR RESEARCHCan you get a 4S to fish tail or 4 wheel drift?
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Test on a drivers ed course
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I'm trying, but the damn thing is pretty well planted. And that's a good thing.
It would be fun to have her break loose some. As long as I don't end up in the ditch.
I hit my favorite turn at 50-52mph this morning and she almost kicked out, but the front end washed out.
This may be best tested on a drivers ed course...
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If you turn off PSM, then you can definitely fishtail or drift with a 4S. You can spin one too!
The weight up front of the AWD system (almost 130 lbs.) tends to make the C4S understeer a bit compared to a C2, but it doesn't take too much to fishtail with PSM off...
Keep in mind the PSM will automatically turn back on if you get too sideways or lock up a wheel or two. But it might be too late for the Please Save Me function.
Sure you can ! Judicious use of the handbrake and lots lots of power & weight transfer. Here is Ken Block AWD drift.
http://jalopnik.com/5952514/watch-ke...ne-drift-track
Wow I forecast a "I turned off PSM for the first time and hit this tree" thread as is popular on such sites as M5 board. Okay I definitely don't recommend doing any of this on a road, much less with the handbrake!
It is true, that even "off" PSM will A) take slack out of the brake pedal under high Gs and B) reactivate under high Gs AND with the brakes applied (again it's usually too late at that point)
Most people are surprised by how much stability control systems do. I was instructing a 135i driver at an autocross. I got him to turn it off his 3rd run and we promptly ended up backwards in the dirt. He had been judiciously applying the throttle at a 180* turn and when the computer wasn't there to dial it back for him, the car went for a loop!
The easiest way is on a skidpad, which you can substitute an empty wet parking lot if you dare. Get the car going in as tight of a turn as it will do at about 30-40mph, and play with the throttle. Usually, rolling onto the throttle causes understeer and the circle gets bigger. If you roll off the gas completely without moving the steering wheel, or even turning in a bit, and then stab and hold the gas pedal down, this is usually enough to transfer weight off the rear wheels and cause the car to begin oversteering. Without countersteer this usually continues until you are backwards. The trick is to try and modulate the wheel and gas to keep the sideways fun going.
I'm sure there are fun youtube videos out there...
Oh I did find a nice article about skidpad instructions. Worth a read!
http://nccbmwcca.org/usermedia/forms...nstruction.pdf
I did a nearly full circle 4-wheel drift in my C4 right after I purchased it (during the local PCA performance driving school's skidpad exercise). It required PSM off, tires grossly overinflated, and an enormous volume of soapy water applied by a water truck.
The C4/C4S is not a drift machine.
I imagine if you got yourself a set of 6" wide ultra-low-rolling-resistance tires, you could have a VERY fun time...which is essentially the trick Toyota pulled with FRS...
If all you want is some oversteer, turn off PSM, practice accelerating through a turn until you're taking the corner juuuust below the limit of adhesion, and lift your foot off the throttle.
Big parking lots are highly recommended.
Yes a plain C4 will drift on dry pavement (hell I got my Cayenne to drift at AutoX class!), but it really doesn't want to.
Not something to practice on public roads though. Take it to an AutoX to figure out its (and your) limits.
Both the C4S and Cayenne will 4 wheel drift fairly easily with the PSM on, fishtailing takes a bit more determination but there are circumstances under which it will happen.
[QUOTE=knfeparty;11466625]Wow I forecast a "I turned off PSM for the first time and hit this tree" thread as is popular on such sites as M5 board. Okay I definitely don't recommend doing any of this on a road, much less with the handbrake!
It is true, that even "off" PSM will A) take slack out of the brake pedal under high Gs and B) reactivate under high Gs AND with the brakes applied (again it's usually too late at that point)
It's been my understanding that once a 996 PSM has been turned off there is no stability management until the brake pedal is pressed,or the PSM button is turned back on by pressing the button or turning off the ignition.
In the C4 "off" is an uncharacteristically German inaccuracy
Even with PSM off, you still have the xfer case and front diff doing their job which add to the "stability". Still it gives you much more leeway.
Now my wife's e90xi on the other hand, I'm convinced the equivalent button in that thing is just connected to an LED to make you think it's done something...
To take gnat's comments a little further - the AWD system is likely to be more active with PSM off than it would with it on! The viscous couplilng in the 996 will only engage the front wheels if there is a speed differential between the front and rear wheels. This condition is often mitigated with PSM on, preventing the front wheels form engaging.
With PSM off and just the right amount of throttle, I have had no problem sliding the back end around corners on dry pavement.
Just dont let the rear weight bias whip the backend out too fast or the electronic stability devices will jump in even with the PSM off...
Technically true, but only about 5% of the power goes to the front wheels until the fluid heats up. Even when it heats up, it only sends up to 40% of the power to the front wheels. So, I'll stand by my original comment.
My point was that when PSM intervenes because of a slide or wheel slip, it limits the wheel slip, and the dilitant fluid is never allowed to heat up and provide that additional power to the front.
I attended the Porsche club sponsored Car Control Clinic and AutoX last month with my 4S.
With please save me (PSM) mode off I was able to achieve both over and under steer on the AX. On the skid pad I was able to easily execute both and did spin out more than once.
I felt it wanted to under steer easier than oversteer but I'm not experienced enough to qualify that. The car definitely didn't want to do either and the instructors at the car clinic wanted to take turns riding with me in the 4S.
Get on a wide open lot and give it a try. I recommend the skid pad exercise if you can.
