Worth It To Tune a 3.4L Engine?

I�ve got the larger GT3 throttle body and IPD plenum, can software tuning gain me much more? If so what tuner does everyone recommend. I have access to 93 octane FWIW.

Not really IMHO. Just buy a more powerful 996. Unless it's all about the journey, then I'd say go for it just don't expect any RoI. The X51 package shows what's possible.

It�s in a boxster racecar so just wondering what might be possible. Car has no cats either so...

Any other opinions or thoughts?

If you are only ever using 100 octane you ought to be able to tune to advance the timing a little. You can always raise the rev limiter. That's about all that can be done on a NA engine, as adding fuel needs to be balanced by more air. There's little you can do to get more air so there's little point in adding more fuel. Any air additions should be within the tuning range of the DME already. Perhaps you can adjust the variocam setpoints or delete the SAI or something like that.

Bore out to 4.0L.

If you really want to go nuts with your M96... which personally I would not do... FVD sells some Schrick MFG cams for the 3.4 https://www.fvd.net/us-en/1001059960...l-schrick.html

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So the DME will auto adjust when we put the larger TB and IPD plenum on the engine?

I went with Shrick cams and went to 3.8 from 3.4. I'm a fan.

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I would think so, never actually tried though. Those upgrades aren't going to change the air into the engine more than a couple percent which should be within the DME's range. This assumes you're running pre-cat O2 sensors because that's what the DME needs to do the mixture adjustments.

Check out my post on catless xpipes. The DME does not compensate enough for the catless setup using o2 spacers IMO. I get drivability issues under heavy load at ~1500rpm. Seems to be hit or miss but I am not the only one this has happened to. You'll also lose a lot of torque in the lower range. Granted if this is a race car, you might spend most of your time above the 4k rev range where your upgrades will be very noticeable without the need of a tune.

Thanks everyone, looks like we�ll install the GT3 TB and IPD Plenum and see what happens.

Keep us informed of your progress I’m very interested in your same setup I’d like to do the same Mike

My vote: get a dyno first, then change the TB/Plenum, dyno again, then tune, dyno a third time. We NEED data. Actually, maybe those are dumb comments that would waste money. I recall from some discussions that tuning the 3.4 is limited due to the DME version. Stupid memory can't recall clearly. Certainly worth some searching.

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They make some real good cams. I had some experience in my 93 vr6 corrado, emerald green. talk to them and ask them about the tune, get the hp/tq chart. If I recall correctly, for the corrado they made 264 and 268. Anyway I chose the milder cam, a friend of mine went with the 268. On 102 octane at the drag strip, I would outrun him almost by a ten, his car had a wilder idle, he was loosing too much down low. I�m just mentioning this because since you are talking about a track car with a real wild set of cams if the straightaways are short your lap times are going to suffer if you loose to much on the bottom, don�t rely on your but dyno. One cool thing is that I could keep up and sometimes beat mustang v8s. For the corrado there was a company that would basically machine off the lip on the throttle , anyway the cost was $250, I had access to a dyno, yes 5 hp gain. Is there something like that available for the cable 3.4. ???? Has anybody ever gasket match the throttle maybe doable with a dremmel. I had a boss with a Judge GTO and his daily was a SHELBY GLHS, we worked on our cars on the weekends and we did everything the old way. My daily was a euro spec Scirrocco 16v black, gold bbs rims. I�m thinking our cars (996) are 100 percent about flow, Vision told me that there is not to much to gain with head work and they also stated that the plenum on my car is a waste a money. Bobby Labonte in Fronf of Jeff Gordon. Penny oil street nationals 13-17 second braket I finished second. Bottom 1994 pikes peak hill climb, we sponsored Roger mears. I got a ride in that car.

For me, M96 Low end is useless on track, the motor feels lazy below 3.5K RPM and I try to keep above 4K as much as possible. So, if I was looking for upgrades for my track M96, a sacrifice of low end TQ for high end HP is not a sacrifice at all.

GIAC makes a tune for the e-gas 996.1. https://www.giacusa.com/supported_pr...r%20E-Throttle OEM Horsepower and Torque 296 HP 258 Ft-Lbs GIAC Pump Mode* 310 HP 270 Ft-Lbs I just bought a 99 996 that the owner told me had a GIAC tune but I have not been able to find out if that is true or not

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Techtonics Tuning is the new go-to for VR6 cams. I have a set of the forced induction cams in my supercharged VR6 Corrado, a set of their 268's in my nice green VR6 Corrado, and a set of their 262's in my rusty green VR6 Corrado. I had a set of their R32 cams in my purple R32 swapped Corrado - that one is swapping back to a 12V VR6. Ok, back on topic.

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yes you are correct. By the way where do you track. I haven�t been to a track pcar event yet, probably will go when squirrel goes. He has done a lot of stuff to his car. Anyway, no I�m not going to track my car, but I�ll love watching and May even volunteer for our club here. (Lone star Region they go to MSR).

Same! Went with the Schrick sport cams as well and LN 3.8 upgrade. Very different driving experience in a positive and fun way. Getting a custom tune with dyno as soon as we are allowed to travel again between our provinces in Canada and will be happy to post dyno before and after tune. Pete

I currently have the GIAC tune on mine and it may be compatible with a stock 3.4L engine but really doesn't work well with the modified engine. I am looking forward to the custom tune that is planned in the next month or so in conjunction with a dyno on site. The Giac tune changes the timing a bit, raised the rev limit a few hundred rpm but that is about it.

It really amazes me as you read posts about upgrading engines over time, the 3.4L used to be the engine to “tune” if you look back in posts about 10 years ago. The 6speed forums are filled with dyno graphs, of before and after with good results on IPD plenums, X-pipes (catted), mufflers, ECU tunes and filters. Even a famous engine builder around here has in his history posts about getting great results tuning a 3.4l and then about 5 years ago those discussion stop and the only ones that exist now are build a 3.8L. I have a hard time believing that magically over the last 5 years upgrades stopped working on 3.4s and 3.6s. More to the point I was with a friend who has a 997 3.8S tiptronic and as we were getting on a freeway entrance ramp side by side my car was a dead match for his. By every car magazine review that isn’t possible. Also the only “upgrade” to my engine is a catted X-pipe. So it would be nice to see some dyno posts around here of before and after with some mods. Things we know don’t work well are cat bypasses because they mess with how the 02 sensors read. I get that. However, better flow on the intake, exhaust and better ignition maps should provide some additional HPs. Maybe not 40-50hp, but 15-25hp is definitely possible. Unless someone can state or show why an upgrade that works on every other internal combustion engine in the world doesn’t happen to work on a 3.4L please don’t chime in with “just buy a 3.8l”. Not everyone has $20K laying around to throw at their car and still wants to have some fun. OK done with my rant.

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^^^^ excellent bump. You are absolutely right. The intelligence is here, we just need to get our heads out of the false limit of what is done today is all that is available. Agreed about airflow improvement focus and data being key! Thanks again.

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most tunners including Jake say that is hard to tune the cable cars. Anyway let me know. One of the first thing that I did to mine was clean the kn panel, clean the trottle and clean the maf (CRC), that seem to make a noticeable difference.

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most tunners including Jake say that is hard to tune the cable cars. Anyway let me know. One of the first thing that I did to mine was clean the kn panel, clean the trottle and clean the maf (CRC), that seem to make a noticeable difference.

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This is what I don�t understand. Most �Tuners� 10 years ago all said the cable cars were the ones to get because they were easier to tune. I know physically flashing the ecu is more difficult because it has to be done out of the car, but the data from 10 years ago suggested there were more returns on the early cable cars. I thought all the engine controls minus the throttle were the same between egas and cable. So vario-cam, ignition, and fuel at temp, rpm, and air rate are the only things you can actually change from a map perspective. If that is the same between the cars then why is one more difficult than the other? Something doesn�t add up and I would like an actual explanation for it other than �buy a turbo if you want to go fast�. I have my suspicion what is going on, but I will keep it to myself because it will offend members of this community. What people around here seem to forget is once you put it on the internet it is there forever and being able to search back in time is very helpful. Anyone doubting this go to the 6speed forums and search on 3.4L tuning. You will find thousands of posts on this topic with all kinds of great data and knowledge. Also if you want a really good chuckle search the history of some of the more prominent members of this forum from back pre 2010 and you will be really surprised what you will find.

I�m new to the 996 world I have been a 944turbo S guy for a while but my first 911 is a 99 cable 3.4 �basically�stock my 944turbo S is too rare to mess with because of value and 36k mileage pristine but just bought this to mess with but I don�t want to alter the engine unless it�s broken so I want to maximize everything I could in the engine whole because my suspension is already done Mike

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If you have read some of my posts you will realize that I dont drink the Kool aid. Sometimes some posts here are like the press some people have some hidden agenda. Hell they already blocked me out of Bring A Trailer. My grandfather with a 6 grade education, mistakes in life are paid with money.

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The attached screenshots show what the guy from first flat six thinks about Jake. That was emailed to me Wednesday. Anyway he wrote that not me, and by the way that�s like the third time he mentions Jake not in the nicest way or the best intentions. Let the minions be minions.

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Good. He isn't supposed to like me. The fact that he doesn't means that I'm still winning (without even trying). I don't have to say things like that about other people, because I don't give a damn what they are doing, and I am concerned with my program, and making it the best it can be. The World would be a much better place if the other clowns did the same thing. Last time I checked my work, and developments weren't a popularity contest, and I'm not here to make friends. That said I stopped recommending that owners tuned the cable throttle cars because too many issues with "bricked" ECUs that occurred when doing the tricks required to alter the 5.2 DMEs. We had to develop combinations that were within the limitations of factory tunes to avoid tuning requirements. Doing this was easy, since we've been working with these cars since before anyone could "tune" them. I make 285-310HP at the rear wheels with a 99C2 with stock tune all the time. Some are less, some are more based on the combination, and where the car will live. Now I'll address this: The reason for this is simple. That's about the time that bore scoring became so prevalent that we ran out of time to do anything other than build larger engines, due to failures. Its been at least 56 years since we had a stock displacement engine come here for modifications, because we had to switch 100% of the focus to the engine building program. We used to do a lot of those "mods" while we had the cars for preventative measures, like IMS Retrofits. We also had to stop doing that work, because of the focus being on nothing but the engine program. Today if I were going to do ANY performance mods to a stock displacement engine I would pre- qualify it just like I would for an IMSR procedure. Why? Because if not, a failure could happen and be blamed on the mods, even if the issue was pre- existing.

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I think you are admirable, but you have also developed a negative followship. In the Miami event mami signs f Jake. Anyway do what makes you happy in the last election 75 mill voted for trump and 79 mill voted for Biden can win them all. I don�t think you wanted to be class President.

If you want everyone to love you- sell ice cream. I love that quote. Good. I'm still winning in Miami too. That's the only place where I advertise in the PCA region newsletter. I do it just so I am constantly in the eyes of those who hate me most. It's worth a few thousand dollars per year for that. By all means, if they are going to talk badly about someone, I hope that it's me.

Easy now boys like with any business research and past people experience should help you decide your choice of builders/service my research on flat6 has been very positive but there are others with almost as high regards my money will be with jack when the time comes I feel his level performance far exceeded most others but no one or no machine is beyond unstoppable speed cost money how fast do you want to go Mike

On topic: tune the 3.4L as you wish, but reassess what was done in the past to see if it conflicts with now knowns about the engine and plan accordingly. i.e. bricking the controller... Off topic: If you're in the league playing the game, you are always gunning for the 1st place guy. That's what these comments are. How many people here have been on a first place team? How many have had to deal with the spread of misinformation and jealous digs as a result? Almost every 1st place team is accused of cheating at some point to justify why we are not as good as them, drives me crazy. Just figure out how to do better than them and go! Data, observations, plans, fixes, results and smiles from results: Let's talk about these things...

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on a personal basis I just want to drive the car. I�m not tracking it or abusing it I shift most at 6,500. I already had my fast and the furious days. It�s almost like my mid life crisis, my day car is a 2019 F150 super crew. Fixing to spend $150 on brunch with the wife at a 3 star restaurant, there are other things in life.

And don't worry about the other guy. He's busy focusing on what you are doing, while you are busy kicking his *** without even trying. A few years ago I stopped reading magazine, and articles, then I stopped watching YouTube videos. I've got a stack of magazines that have never been opened.

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I think a lot some of us are missing what has happened to the 996 in the past 5 years. It is no longer a daily driver to most owners. At 20 years old the majority of 996s are now a toy somewhere only taken out on nice days to go to Cars and Coffee or a club cruise. My car only gets 2K miles a year at the most. So if the mods I do to it blow up the motor in 20K miles then that is 10 or more years from now. Not to mention I don�t track it, never bounce the tach off the redline, and change the oil every spring which is 2K miles. Heck my oil came out so clean this year I debated saving it and using it to top off the my other cars. Anyway back to tuning. I now understand Jakes logic of he has bigger fish to fry so why spend time on a low margin product that won�t sell in volume. I get that. So what is left on the market, IPD makes a plenum and from the hundreds of dynos I have seen that seems to be a pretty solid 5-10hp depending on things. 200cel cats either with or without the x pipe seem to yield good numbers. The BMC drop in filter is the way to go in the air box. So that just leaves tuning. Softronic seems to the be the tune that has been around the longest and most respected. My question is when you put all that together what does it yield? I suspect about 35-40hp? Can someone confirm or deny that? As for cost, that all adds up to about $3500 give or take a bit depending on where you get the products. If you are like me you pick a project a year and spend some money on it so it is more about tinkering than the money. Thoughts?

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I drive my car sometimes 2 times a week, yes pcar get togethers. Cars and coffee , sometimes brunch with the wife. I got Kn panel super clean and I cleaned everything on the fuel delivery system, I got fab speed headers and exhaust with hr springs, konis, rss motor mounts, all courtesy of previous owners. Since my car is a cable car, most shops that prepare race cars including vision told me the ipd would be the last thing they would do. I did spoke with GIAC and the tune is $750 to $800, hp gains are said to be 10-12. I don�t know if my car has been tune or not but I can tell you with the tell tell I consistently hit 60 in 4.9. I got a 25,000 mile clutch so if I want to I can launch real hard , also lsd. On the exhaust part the cats are factory what I would like to do once the car gets to 25 years old is to cut those pipes open basically take everything out and weld them back together so they look stock but they are not. Don�t know about you guys but I�m not going to spend the $800 if the car has not been tuned.

If I was going to aim to try to add meaningful power to an M96 without taking the heads off, here’s what I would do... Standalone ECU Individual throttle bodies E85 Fuel Lightest FW and clutch I could get away with Big open headers Keep in mind - I know Nothing !

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That�s one of the 7 concepts of highly effective people. I want to have a reliable driver that will last a long time. Everything inside the M96 is not compatible at all with E-85. You love to race your car and that is a completely different purpose i of what I want to do with mine. Remember lemans 24 hours but reliability is a most. Anyway read up on Vision Motorsports where they have entered under power test cars and won their class due to reliability. Also Jake always talks about his cars don�t having the highest dyno numbers but being extremely reliable. In my previous life I had sponsorship money available for 42 countries, I seen a lot of racing, engine builds and Motorsports in general. The best race I saw in my life was this guy in the Dominican Republic running Honda vtecs, the category controlled everything including trottle size, engine displacement, fuel was the same you could add whatever additive you wanted, anyway this was 2001. He did not qualify on Friday due to business commitments but on Sunday he started 24, and passed everyone on on a 25 lap race that is driving. That race was basically the equivalent of IROC racing. Yes you could use whatever oils and fluids you wanted plus tires. Brakes and spring rates where controlled by category, remember NASCAR win on Sunday. Sell on Monday.

Not a big deal - fuel system needs to be upgraded to handle but... that’s whatever. Pump, lines, injectors... Why don’t you take a stroll to the turbo forums and see if any of those guys running E85... this is nothing new. OP was talking about a race car BTW

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I understand all the changes that have to be done. One of my friends has a lambo aventador sv (217 mph top speed) and he is obsessed about having the fastest hell cat, 1,200 hp. He buys it by the drums, has not been able to get the right tune yet. That�s a huge difference fro a daily driver.

As promised earlier in this thread, here is a before and after dyno on a custom tune. You can see from the before graph results that the addition of the Schrick sport cams did no favors to the HP and torque line at higher rpm with the existing Giac tune the car already had. The DME seemed unable to adjust to this hardward change it and the result was a severe drop off from around 5700 to 6300rpm where both torque and hp start to pick up again. On the track, this was a very noticeable and negative result. With the custom program from RSP Motorsports and performed in conjunction with being strapped on the dyno at the same time, they were able to smooth out and increase both torque and hp. It has a very strong and uninterrupted acceleration now to 7500rpm and if only i could rev it higher without fear of blowing up, it think it would keep pulling easily to 8k.