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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHHelp Decode Dealership IMS service record!
Leading reported evidence
Install aftermarket ims bearings
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
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1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
However, many Porsche dealerships have recognized these bearings can fail, especially the 6204, and have installed aftermarket IMS bearings for customers.
Leading evidence: 'Install aftermarket ims bearings' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check system' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I am thinking all signs point to a customer provided IMS kit installed by the dealer.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The used dealership is claiming the IMS was replaced, and when I was provided the documentation I was surprised to see it was from a Porsche Dealership.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
However, many Porsche dealerships have recognized these bearings can fail, especially the 6204, and have installed aftermarket IMS bearings for customers.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
At that time, if their was an RMS leak, and the alignment was fine, the dealerships under warranty would replace the RMS as well as replace the IMS seal as a precaution.
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30 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Hey everyone, first time potential Porsche owner here.
Hoping I can get some helpful information on a Porsche Dealership service record being provided with a 2004 996 C4S Tip. The used dealership is claiming the IMS was replaced, and when I was provided the documentation I was surprised to see it was from a Porsche Dealership. My assumption was that they would not install an aftermarket solution, but would install Porsche�s most updated version.
My only other guess is that the customer provided the IMS Kit and Porsche installed it.
Would you guys kindly decode this service record for me including the additional parts?
Thank you and happy fourth!
I would agree and that was my assumption, but I have read on these forums that this has happened. And the note is very clear that the IMS was replaced, and there is clearly no part number that resembles an IMS or the cost.
It�s possible the IMSB kit number is your part number. I don�t believe Porsche sells the IMSB as a separate part so that may explain why there is only a reference for a kit number. The cost of the part is probably buried in the 14hrs of labor. I would be interested in knowing details about the dealer or service provider. That info is missing from the invoice.
I left the top part out because it had the vehicle vin and didn’t want anyone to buy it lol. It is Porsche of Norwell Massachusetts. I plan on calling when they open.
I’m not sure about engine out service... would like to know more about that myself.
However, one thing I am thinking is at this time the only available Porsche provided IMS would be the M97 which has the IMS attached the shaft. That would require a complete engine tear down, and the note states only to remove transmission and install kit.
Just for clarity, the IMS *is* the shaft (IMS = InterMediate Shaft), and IMSB is the bearing (IinterMediate Shaft Bearing). Less confusion if the proper terms are used, especially when replacing one requires splitting the case and the other can be done without splitting the case.
Looking at the sheet, I'm thinking that the customer might have provided the IMSB that was installed. Maybe check with LN?
To clarify, Porsche does NOT provide its dealerships with a retrofit IMS bearing kit. However, many Porsche dealerships have recognized these bearings can fail, especially the 6204, and have installed aftermarket IMS bearings for customers. We've confirmed that many times with official Porsche dealership invoices.
OP, in you invoice there is NO IMS bearing listed. That is just the IMS flange, seal, and fasteners. I'm wondering if your car had an engine replacement at some point after 2006? One way to check is by referencing the engine serial number that is located on a plate on the driver's side of the engine. The plate is cast on the side of the oil sump.
Now, if the serial number has the letters "AT" in the series, then it's definitely been replaced. We can also identify at one time it was replaced. This is important. After 2006, Porsche began using a more robust 6305 bearing, but that bearing is considered non-serviceable because it can't be extracted from the IMS port on the case because it's too large. The case must be split.
On the flip side, if you have the 6305 bearing then that's very good new for you because there have been very few reports of failure. It's a very durable bearing.
Report back once you find out. Cheers!
Thanks for the replies, very helpful.
I am thinking all signs point to a customer provided IMS kit installed by the dealer. Will let you know when I confirm. And just so I�m clear, is the IMS�B� replacement process the same for a Tip as it is a Manual?
I am also curious to know about the CYLINDERHEAD parts listed, and what type of work was done with those.
thanks!
Manual the IMSB can be replaced with the engine in the car. Triptronic the engine and transmission need to be dropped.
You can Google any of those part numbers and you will get tons of hits.
Here is a website where you look those part numbers up
http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/911.php
If the dealer still has records, they should be able to tell you. Remember, in the mid 2000's the big issue was not the IMS bearings or shaft, it was the leaking Rear Main Seal (RMS) and the use of the "go-no-go" tool to determine if the transmission and engine lined up. At that time, if their was an RMS leak, and the alignment was fine, the dealerships under warranty would replace the RMS as well as replace the IMS seal as a precaution. Not the shaft or bearing. If it wasn't in alignment, they would replace the engine.
We got a lot of former Porsche Dealership Engineers on RL and they can share more technical info. But suffice to say. Anytime I saw oil, I was in the dealership under warranty having my dealership replace the RMS with the newest and latest seal, as well as use the "go-no-go" tool to measure alignment as well as give the IMS seal a look-over. More importantly, they never replaced the IMS bearings nor shaft. Just the IMS seal. In my case, I had to go to my Porsche Indy to replace it with the LN Retro kit.
Your situation may have been different, but figured I would share my experience. As I side not, engine continues to run strong as he'll. But I stayed on top of it early in its life thru today. Today, no-one has heard of the RMS drama, but everyone has heard of the IMS bearing.
Surprised to learn some Porsche dealerships will install a customer supplied IMSB. It�s the right thing to do IMO. These dealerships seem to be taking on liability.
If this was an LN bearing I highly doubt the retrofit checklist was performed beforehand which would void the LN warranty. If memory serves, the checklist includes an invasive borescope for presence of bore scoring. If bore scoring exists the LN IMSB retrofit should not be installed. The prequal checklist would take several hours to complete since the sump plate has to be removed and scoped from below. and I don�t think there was a bill for new sump plate bolts.
Bottom line, if a Porsche dealership would do the right thing - install a customer supplied IMSB and assume liability then my trust in that dealership goes up!
IMHO, if they were replacing the IMS bearing with an aftermarket retrofit kit, then they would
not
use the factory flange and seal. Follow me? They would use all the parts that came with the aftermarket IMS bearing kit.
It's probable that the engine is a factory reman and has the updated M97 6305 bearing. In those cases when there are oil leaks, Porsche dealerships would replace the flange and seal. This lines up with that invoice, but anything is possible at this point.
Food for thought... what are the chances they were prepared to install the aftermarket bearing kit, removed the the transmission, and realized they were dealing with the non-serviceable M97 bearing? Possible.
(correction) I didn't cross-reference those part numbers. Those seems to be RMS, Cam plugs, etc.
This is very interesting.
Yea, that's just based on what we've seen here on Rennlist. If the dealership did install an aftermarket bearing kit into this engine, I'm wondering why they didn't list that in the description for liability purposes? Usually, they'll say something like... "Installed a customer provided IMS bearing kit".
I'll admit ... There is a little ambiguity in this invoice. This is like trying to solve a murder mystery. haha
Really good points. Hopefully the dealership will be able to clarify, but three years later it might even be difficult for them to know for sure.
I ran the VIN number through LNs check system... nothing.
I�m guessing for someone to physically check would be almost the same amount of labor as replacing one?
Been thinking about this comment. If that is what happened, the tech must have not realized it until very late in the game. If he/she actually used all those other seals, the alleged larger bear would not have been found until after all the cams were pinned and the tensioners removed. Kinda like the tech was humming along on auto pilot and got a rude awakening when the socket didn't fit the IMS nut or when he/she got the cover off and saw the larger bearing. Maybe an inexperienced tech because the car was older?
We can dig down this rabbit hole all weekend! ;-)
The most useful thing you could do between now and then (especially if you're talking to them on the phone) is take a picture of the engine's serial number and post it here on Rennlist.
That would tell us if your car has the original engine or if it was replaced with a reman engine at some point.
Here is where the serial number is located. Driver side on the sump.
Is it for sale at the dealer now ? I have been there many times - never seen a 996 of any flavor there
there is evidence of an OEM IMS 'upgrade' kit floating around. But I don't see that p/n listed.
If youre local I can recommend a great indy mech to have it checks out
It is strange the work order would actually say 'customer requests replacement of the IMS bearing'
But show no evidence of such part. Although it does say 'install an IMS kit reassemble.. road test vehicle ok now."
Hmmm I just realized something; knowing the dealer.
When the 996 was new, they were called Rietzl Porsche Audi up until 2010 or so when the founder died
After that, both became X of Norwell.
If this repair was done with Porsche of Norwell on the header, this car was way out of warranty and perhaps the service department would have been open to a customer supplied IMS kit.
Food for though
Are you referring to the LN IMSB registry?
It will show VIN & Bearing serial number.
Best thing LN did for post Customer service, that place is a class act👍👍
The car is currently for sale at a local used car dealer, and before I even get a PPI I am vetting the documentation. If I can�t nail down the story I probably won�t even go look at the car seeing I�ll be running into the same issues/questions if I ever try to sell the car.
The work was done in 2018 so certainly out of warranty, and you�re probably correct that the dealership would be more open to it. The customer probably went to the dealership for two reasons; 1. Not knowing/trusting Indy shops 2. Thinks it�s important to have all work done by Porsche
I have a great local Porsche Specialist that I will be using for whatever pcar I get.
And I might as well throw this out there. WTB 996 with under 70k miles and IMSB upgrade completed. Prefer C4S, 996.1 Aero, 996.2 in that order. Prices are getting crazy so try to stay around $30-$35k which looks like it�s getting harder and harder to do. (I realize I can do this in the marketplace but have not gotten to that point yet)
Alright folks, here it is.
just got off the phone with service at Norwell Porsche, and he confirmed that the notes on the car means an aftermarket IMSB upgrade was installed, and the only one they use is LNE. I asked if he happened to have the bearing serial number, but he did not.
Now that the IMS has been completed, is there anything else I need to worry about regarding Tiptronic and dropping the engine for other services?
Not that I have records specific to this installation, but Porsche of Norwell has IMS Retrofit purchases from LN going back to 2011. In fact, we sell to a majority of dealerships in North America direct as most do not have access to wholesalers such as SSF, WP, IMC, Altrom, or Northside where most shops purchase their IMS Retrofit and IMS Solution kits from.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
