996 with blown gasket - advice?

I have a 2001 C4 with about 126k miles. The previous owner and I both tracked it, but also took pretty good care of it (at 100+ mph you really care that everything is in working order ). A couple of weeks ago, I noticed it had lost coolant. After topping off, found pale slime in the coolant - i.e. oil. Changed the oil and it was chocolate milk - i.e. coolant in the oil. Absolutely no performance issues, no overheating or anything, my only hint was the blinking coolant light. Took it to an indie Porsche shop I trust, and they said the plugs didn't show signs of coolant but a leakdown test indicated leakage on cyl #5, coming through plug holes on 4 & 6. So - that head gasket needs fixing. But even just opening up the cyl head to see how bad things are will cost $$$. And if we do open it up, should probably do a top end overhaul which will be more $$$$. Then what about the other head - and that's more $$$$. All this assumes once the head comes off we don't find additional serious issues, otherwise I'm out all that money and still don't have a running car. But I'm preaching to the choir here of course. And I did get a lot of use out of the car, nowhere near what I'd hoped to but I still don't regret the purchase. I just have to decide what to do next, and would appreciate any input the list can offer. Here are the options I'm considering: 1) Sell the car as-is, to someone who wants to do the engine work themselves or maybe swap in a new engine altogether. They get a cheap 996 and I'm not out any additional $$. 2) Open up the engine, hoping the head isn't warped and we can just fix the gasket and clean things up. Then (a) sell the car, or (b) continue tracking it until it breaks again. 3) Rebuild the whole engine so it's good as new, OR swap in a good refurbished engine; either one is probably $20k with labor, but now we're approaching what I paid for the car which is hard for me to justify. I'm leaning toward 2a .... but curious whether putting any money into this car will actually improve its resale value over option 1. And there's the risk that once we open it up, we'll find more issues and will be stuck with 1 or 3. Thoughts?

Others will chime in, but usually it isn't a bad head gasket. I'll bet there is a crack or two that others can post pics of. Too bad.

Agree with Barn...also before ripping anything apart, I'd try to find a usb camera thin enough to enter through the spark plug hole & put in position looking back at the valve area. Review the extensive posts by Dharn re cylinder head repair. GL w Solution

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I agree with this too. If you really like the car and want even more enjoyment out of it, I would go the used engine route or get rebuilt engine. There are plenty of prices for option 3. I've seen used engines go for around $5-8k with warranty depending on mileage and seller. You can get a top notch rebuild for $20k+ or get something that will get you back on the road and have warranty for around $6k + labor. OTOH, if the car doesn't really mean much to you and you don't want to deal with any headaches, option 1 could be a good candidate. option 2 seems a bit unrealistic and too optimistic IMO

Search for milkshake in the forum, or you can read this https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-rebuild.html

This is a tough call. Just as the others said, it's probably not the gasket but might as well be because it will cost at least as much as a blown headgasket. Do you want to risk spending thousands or willing to spend a few hundred more to get and idea what you are facing? If no, sell it as is. I'm looking for a project like this so if you really want to sell it as is, send me a PM.

sell now.

Sorry to hear because I've been there. The car is worth next to nothing without a healthy motor. You have intermix due to a cracked head and from the sounds of it with the milkshake in the oil it is severe. In my case I was lucky to have a minor case of intermix on a donor motor and had the motor fixed. The plan was to keep with 133K miles on it but I decided to sell it and did. I sold it north of $20K. Without a motor I'm sure the roller value would be around $7K. If I were to do the whole deal all over again knowing what I have learned I think I would have found a donor motor myself when it went first kaput in April 2013 on the track and done the swap.....but the route I went brought me to getting a Raby 4.0 put in my 997S. So what do I know but I'm not looking back. Yes you could get the crack repaired but you would be better off with 2 matching heads but I don't know the mechanics of what goes into changing them. Here is a place that has one for sale (no affiliation) http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-Carrera-9...item41889b7183 Could be a simple swap. Best of luck

See if this sounds familiar: http://www.flat6innovations.com/inde...oolant-repairs We see this about 60 times per year.. I have 4 cases on site now. I have never, not once ever, seen a head gasket fail with an M96. The symptoms are often the same as a head gasket, and you can even end up with the same pressure traces in the cooling system as a head gasket. Of all the cases we've done this year, we've been able to save, by repair, all the engines but two. Those two had collateral damage and one had cylinder wear that did not make it worthwhile to resurrect. Both those customers chose my reconstruction program, and they are in line behind sneakypete. With a 2001 we often see the engine was left over from 2000, and had the problematic cylinder head castings that have only two expansion plugs, rather than 3. Log onto our Facebook page www.facebook.com/fixabrokensix and look at the photo albums,, you'll see many of them with intermix and cracked head photos. A properly repaired head is stronger than another used, unknown, unaltered head. I was once bitten by not wanting to repair a head, then I replaced it with a good used one. That was the only job that came back to me for a 5 year period when the good used head cracked 5 years later. Coincidentally I still had that customers old heads, and I repaired them and refit them, and its been gone for several years again. At 126K, if its been well taken care of with more frequent than directed service, it can probably be repaired. We just completed an intermix repair on a 159K mile car today, that customer was told that he needed a new engine as well, but his engine looked better than a 50K mile 996 engine generally does. We did a lot while we had the heads off, including the IMSR, and I bet it will go another 100K now. Now a question: Did you recently, or even in the last year or so have a water pump failure with this engine?? I can diagnose this accurately, with the engine in the car, and assembled. We can tell how bad it is too, I just need 4 hours to do this. Thats said, you MUST make a decision fast, because the will in the coolant is tearing apart the hoses throughout your car. Its softening them, and to replace them all costs around 3K bucks. You don't see this 50+ times a year and not learn all the caveats to the failure, and the dynamics behind them. Here's a testimonial from a guy who's engine we saved a couple months ago, after his dealer said it was dead, this is part of an email chain where the owner was telling the dealer how wrong they were: Mike, I wanted to let you know that I was able to get my Porsche fixed after finding oil and the water mixed on my 2000 Porsche Carrera Cabriolet in April of this year. I was charged $90.00 dollars by Stevens Creek Porsche and told that the sleeves in my engine block had moved and why my oil and water were mixed. I was told that I needed a new engine with no solution or suggestion on how to get it fixed or where to get fixed provided by your dealership. I did a lot of research on the intermix problem and found a ton of information on this and other well know issues when Porsche changed their engines from air to water cooled. I cannot express to you how disappointing it is to spend 89K out the door for a car, have only 77K miles on it and have it fail after being treated like a baby all these years. I am sure that you and Porsche are aware how damaging this can be to a brand name and one quick check in the internet and you can see this is a big problem for Porsche for 10 years +. Also, to be told by the dealership the problem is sleeves in the engine block and to later find out that there are no sleeves in the block from 99 forward is further damage to the reputation of Porsche and your dealership. Anyways, after a ton of research I found Raby Engineering or Flat 6 Innovations out of Cleveland Georgia. These guys came highly recommended from the Porsche Club of America privately from members. They all know about the problems and know that these guys provide the best cost effective solution. I ended up shipping my Car to Georgia and had the best experience possible with Jake and Jud from Raby Engine Development's Flat 6 Innovations division. They provided the best customer service I have ever received. Up to this point, the best customer service I have ever received was from Ron ****** at your dealership, who is by the way amazing too. Every step of the way from picking up my car to the rebuild and then shipping home they kept me up to date all through the process. It cost about 11K and about 1.8K in shipping back and forth. I think the price is a great value and my Porsche has never run better. Here is a link which shows the complete rebuild: Mike's 911 Intermix Here is the diagnosis of what the problem was: "Mike, Things are going very well. We found 1 crack in each cylinder head, which is obviously why your episode was so extreme. One of the cracks is non- repairable, so we will replace that head with a like item and match it to the existing head. The heads are in machining now and it should go back together next week." Honestly when my engine failed I thought about selling the car as is and take a big loss of a car I love. I talked to a bunch of local guys with really good yelp reviews and most wanted nothing to do with this problem. One guy in Mountain View with close to a hundred great yelp reviews said he would not do another, he said he could not charge enough money to cover the labor time. Raby has 4 buildings dedicated to fixing these engines and set up a process so it is cost effective. Most everyone I talked to locally said I needed a new block and Raby told me it was the head and it was. Blocks are almost impossible to find too, most with over 100K miles if you can find one. Anyways these guys saved my car and it was a customer experience and a half. They also gave me a key / USB drive with all the service information along with all the parts list. Anyways, it is nice to know that if this happens there is a great source to get it fixed. Also, one thing they warned me about the first time I talked to them, make sure I flush the coolant system because when you get the oil and gas mix it breaks down all of your hoses. As you know replacing all the hoses would be a huge extra cost, and they were the only ones that warned me about it. Thanks again, Mike

It sounds like the car has given you some very very good service. In fact it sounds like you've more than gotten your money out of it. Junking it as a roller is (in my opinion) penny wise and pound foolish. What are you going to buy for the short money you'd get for the car as a roller. As opposed to giving your car a "new" engine (or rebuilt or exchange) and enjoying another 126k miles. The resale value of your car with a fresh motor from a respected shop will be there any time you want to pick that low hanging fruit. In the meantime having a motor made just for you is a chance to enjoy the car more than you ever have before. Of course I tend to see these things through slightly romantic glasses.

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I agree. The reason why we stay so busy is because people know that a car as good as a 996 can't be bought today for what a solid engine costs. Thats why we reconstruct 20K engines for cars that are worth 1/2 that amount in the blue book. To their owners the vehicle has a different value in so many instances. Porsches have always been that way, hell I was building 10-15K engines for 912s and 914s that were worth 2-4K 20 years ago.

What makes this situation a little different is that I also have a 2005 C2 that is more important to me. I bought this car so that I could retire the 997 from track to DD duty. I've had a great year with the 996, but this is making me wonder if I'd be better off with a track car that's cheaper to fix. In answer to johnireland, that's what I'd buy with the short money. On the other hand, I'm the sort that hates leaving things broken. Would really prefer to fix it even if I'm just going to turn around and sell it. But I'm not yet convinced that makes financial sense.

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If you don't plan on keeping the car, then it makes no sense financially to repair it. I see people sometimes do this, but I advise against it. Why? Because to repair the engine correctly, and update a few things while you are at it (getting free labor while its apart) isn't cheap. If you try to fix the car cheap it ends up being a potential liability after the sale, especially if it fails soon and the buyer can tell the engine was repaired. They then can say that the repair was intentional, and pin you down legally. I have seen that happen. Selling the car broken makes the most sense for a lot of people, it can be an opportunity for the right, enthusiastic new owner to repair it correctly. To properly repair an intermixed engine, and update the IMSB and other items while you are there, normally runs 10K from my repair side of the house, here. There are some that run 12K, just because they are more difficult cases or they have compromised cooling system hoses. We just had someone on the phone who had a failure and is dead set on repairing the engine and selling the car immediately afterward. Why spend 5K just to sell the car for maybe 5K more? Just take the loss with no more expenditure and be done with it, at least you don't risk the repair, or used engine failing before the car sells again. You'd be surprised how many times that bites people in their asses! Then they lose even more and sell it broken anyway. Cheap repairs don't work with these engines, because so few people are proficient with the engines and those who are, are smart enough not to risk their business on a cheap operation.

Found someone local looking for a project car, so I decided to sell her as-is. Thanks for all the input. EDIT: New owner found *both* heads were cracked.

Can I ask as to why nobody seems to go the route of Welding the heat crack in the damaged block and re-engineering? This seems a common solution for other engines types, why not for Porsche? PS - I think my 3.4 996 has got intermix problems - Gunk in the coolant, and some steam on cold starts...... running well 'for now' but I know that some action is needed. Trying to weigh up options - I like the car (had it 5yrs) but I am realistic about its value versus potential repair costs. 100,000 miles on the clock. Sorry if this has been asked before - I'm new to the forum

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Yes, we developed a crack repair regimen for 5 of the 6 areas where these heads have cracking issues. The final area isn't worth repairing, as its way too risky. First off, before a repair can be made its imperastive that the engine be thoriughly evaluated for collateral damages. We will spend the majority of a day doing this before we even think about resurrecting the engine. We save dozens of these engines every year that have intermix, most of the owners were told that their issue was terminal by a dealer, or other shop, and it probably was; because those people have never become proficient with the internals of these engines. If you have intermix, please cease operation and have the system purged immediately. Continuing to drive the car will not do you any favors in the long run. The intermix in the cooling system reservoir is indicative of the entire system being contaminated. The petroleum in the intermix will destroy every hose in the system, and the heater core, too, if gone untreated. Cars that have intermix sit in the system for even a couple of months can need 3-5K worth of extra repairs, as most 996s have 29 hoses in their cooling system. The labor to change these is a real monster of a bill that can be avoided if you take this seriously. Nothing good will come from driving the car, or not acting, even if the car runs perfectly. They always do when this condition strikes.

Thanks for the advice, I have already stripped off the front bumper and traced the petroleum gel contaminate to the front rads, it appears to line the hoses at the low points of the line also. I tried to flush out the rad but the formed gel is remarkably stubborn. I'd say i'll have to strip the entire cooling system post the engine repair also. I didn't realise that the gel would be detrimental to the hoses etc.. The car is now parked.... Thanks again.

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You are doing the right thing.. What it takes to clean the system is hot water that's near boiling temperature mixed with some shout laundry Detergent. The shout doesn't build bubbles and works excellent for this. We made a flushing device from a water heater just for this purpose. Few people know about the hoses, but they just haven't seen these failures enough to put the storyline together. The hoses will get so soft from the petroleum that you can tear through them with your bare hands. I would recommend getting the root of the issue addressed ASAP so you can get the car running again to purge the system. You can do the shout trick with the engine running, and let the engine be the heat source. In 2-3 flushes you'll have it as long as you can get the engine hot enough. In winter I block off one radiator's airflow to get the engine hotter, at least 200 degrees. This is a nasty mess.

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thanks for posting the additional information around this issue, Jake. it could be worse --there could 'not' be a path to fixing the issue. at least the original poster (or anybody else) has an option or two.