M96 Modes of Failure: A non-hysterical list of potential M96 health issues

As with your health, it's often difficult to get an objective answer about issues that may someday affect your Porsche. If you ask your cardiologist, you're going to hear lots of opinion about your heart. Likewise, your oncologist will be preoccupied about the risk of cancer. And, of course, Dr. Internet is convinced that the 996 you own or are considering is going to die due to IMS bearing failure. An esteemed Porsche expert, understandably unwilling to deal with fallout and dissenting opinions, chose to not publish a comprehensive list of issues that may affect our engines. While I understand this reasoning, such a list seems like valuable information for this community, and I thought perhaps we could as a group assemble a thorough, non-hysterical list of issues that can result in the premature failure of an M96 engine. This is not designed to talk you out of buying a 996 - I'd hate for anyone to miss the chance to own drive such a capable car. My singular goal is to further what this forum already does: demystify our cars. In addition, I hope to reduce the rabid fixation on the IMS bearing and its Internet reputation as the "996 killer." Where possible, each "mode" will be linked to thread(s) that discuss it in detail. It is my earnest hope that those in the field who are very knowledgeable about the M96 engine will be willing - either by replying to this post or via private message if they wish to remain anonymous - to contribute to this resource. Information here has been gleaned from numerous Porsche-related online forums, Flat6 Innovations, Autofarm.co.uk, Pelican Parts, LN Engineering, etc. If you feel that any information herein is proprietary or for any other reason inappropriate for posting, or if you believe content is erroneous, please contact me via PM.

And now...the list: M96 known modes of failure 1. Oil starvation and damage due to snapped oil pump drive key 2. D-chunk failure ( LN Engineering ) 3. Broken crankshaft (sometimes due to lightweight flywheel) ( Renntech , Flat6 ) 4. Rod bolt failure 5. Timing/cam chain stretching/link breakage ( Renntech ) 6. Intermediate shaft bearing wear/failure 7. Oil starvation due to pickup tube blockage 8. Oil starvation due to extended high-G turns ("sweepers") ( LN Engineering ) 9. Head cracks due to ingested water pump impeller vanes (, Hoffman Machine 10. Head cracks due to other issues (casting issues, etc.) ( Hoffman Machine ) 11. Hydrolock(?) resulting from failed AOS ( Mike Focke ) (Note: No link for an actual hydrolock case found yet.) 12. IMS sprocket separating from IMS 13. Debris from worn chain tensioners 14. Cylinder scoring/ovaling 15. Slipped sleeve (cylinder liner) 16. Intermix (AOS, oil cooler, engine case porosity) 17. Chain tensioner paddle wear/failure (debris-related or timing-related) Please note that items that may be maintenance issues, but are either not a cause for failure or are the result of a failure, may not be listed. For example, RMS issues cause oil leaks, not engine failure.

Great idea Schnell!

Just one more note - if this does devolve into a shouting match or p!ss-fest, I will lock it and have it deleted. If you feel, like I do, that this will help demystify the M96 and help reduce the myopic focus on the IMS bearing, please contribute. If, however, you think it's a stupid waste of time, please just move on to the next topic.

DRIVING INTO A TREE AT SPEED.

I don't get it. Sorry.

17 - Case porosity. Or has that all been worked out after initial production? 18 - Timing chain tensioner paddle failure.

Btw, I think it will also be useful to indicate the chances and causes of these to put things in perspective. Also, anything that can be done to reduce or eliminate the risks. For example, one can easily drop the oil pan to inspect the oil pickup tube for debris blockage.

Aren't most of the items listed fairly common failures of many cars and not unique to the 996?

I am preparing to sell my 993, and one of the replacements I'm looking at is a 996 with x51 power kit. Probably the 40th AE. But I was thinking ,after I replace the ims bearing, what else do I need to worry about? The 996 tt have their own problems, but not many catastrophic.(correct if I'm wrong) But I loved my 02 c4s but ims bearing scared me to sell. That was several years ago, before the ims fixes. Thanks for comments. Kevin

Excellent idea, this list! Once completed, it would be nice to compile a list of possible corrective actions.

Gonzo, there has been much anguish when Jake Raby decided to pull the failure mode content from his forthcoming book. This thread is the result of that perceived interest. If I misread the tea leaves, I can accept that - but it seems to me that this group is a decent place to look for such info, since we own them and pay for their care and feeding... As far as statistical data (as proposed by Ashai), I don't believe we would be able to compile frequency/likelihood stats without significant input from Jake, and I suspect Jake's not going to be interested in dealing with the chaff/flak that would result from sharing that kind of data.

Aren't they all listed in Wayne's book?

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I had a 993 and liked it a lot. I'd have to drive one back to back with my 996 to be sure I'd consider a trade/purchase. I like the slightly smaller size of the 993...plus that it has less electronic "stuff." That said...I would not be afraid of a 996 (and its unending list of potential failures) any more than I'd be afraid of a 993 overheating in traffic or its relative lack of power, or high miles of a particular examplt, etc. Oil starvation under high G long turns is far from unique to any car. That's why race cars (and street versions of race cars) have enormous oiling systems. The 308/328 series of Ferraris all had this problem, because they went to transverse engines but neglected to relocate the oil pickup point for the pump. The worst case scenario on the IMS is the middle group of cars with a "reported" failure rate of 8%...the earlier and later versions have about 1%. And there are modest fixes if that is what you want to do proactively. Many of the items in the list presented in this thread overlap. And therefore may be misdiagnosed. Once a motor lets go and things start crashing into each other it isn't always easy deciding with 100% certainty how it all started. So maybe the list should only be 10 rather than 20-something. I could have spent in the mid thirties to low forties for an 19 to 25 year old Porsche with more miles and more wear...and no matter what the seller says had been serviced...the moment I drove the car away, it is all on me if something lets go. I chose to spend less money on an 11 year old Porsche (and an after market service contract)...with less wear on all its components...and put the money I saved in the bank for any rainy day fixes. If you're in the LA area and want to kick tires and slam doors, let me know.

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More info, please.

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Thanks for a great post...lets talk about it. If this list of flaws only related to a 996 it would be pretty bad. 1. Oil pumps can sometimes fail. How often in a 996? How often in all Porsches? How often in all cars? 3. Broken crankshaft. From? Rod bearing failure? Too much lightening? Race or stock? Changing components connected to the crank? I had a $15k hand made motor with Carrillo rods and special racing crank let go on the first practice session of its third race weekend...parts all over the track...and no way to know what let go first. 4. Rod bolt failure...see above. 5. & 13. & 17. Timing chain stretching/link breakage. Debris from worn chain tensioners. Chain tensioner paddle wear/failure (debris-related or timing-related). Chains and all their related components have had problems for also long as chain technology has been used...and not by any means exclusive to Porsche of any year. When chains were replaced with belts they too developed tensioner and other forms of failure. In 09 VW went from belts back to chains. A fellow I knew years ago had problems with his cam chains on his Ferrari Daytona, so he had his wrench run some extra tubes to the left bank of the engine just to squirt oil on the gear and chain. What is interesting is the relationship of the cam chains and the IMS shaft. Could chain issues be the source of IMS issues...or are they co-dependents? 6. & 12. IMS bearing wear/failure. Certainly this seems a true 996 issue. 7. & 8. Oil starvation can be also the result of too low an oil level, which is driver error. The book "996 The Essential Companion" states that low oil levels and resulting cam gear/chain failure is a probable source of the IMS problems. At least that is a contrarian opinion. Oil starvation can be the result of engine design as in the Ferrari 308/328 series of cars. And yes if something blocks the oil flow that isn't good but do we have a demonstrated number of occurrences that are exclusive to the 996? 9. & 10. Head cracks due to water pump impeller vanes? I don't have an answer because it doesn't seem to have come up that often here. I have heard of non-Porsche engine heads cracking from overheating and over torqueing, so heads cracking seems to be an issue but not exclusive to 996s...that I have heard about. 11. & 16. Hydrolock from failed AOS and Intermix from oil, coolant, AOS, engine porosity. No comment since I'm not sure I can explain it or discuss it. When coolant and oil mix in any engine it is not good and can destroy the engine...any engine. 14. & 15. Cylinder scoring/ovaling. Slipped sleeve (cylinder liner). Again, I'd need to know the actual statistics in 996 engines to see if this represents an ongoing design flaw. I seem to remember hearing about these problems in flathead Fords back in the 1950s. Again what are the statistical issues of this in 996s. I've grouped many of these issues into just nine categories...Certainly less ugly than the daunted "23 modes of 996 Engine Failure." I am sure that if there is a way for an engine to fail, that at least one Porsche of every generation and design has failed that way at least once...and maybe even 100 times. So that is looking at the glass as half empty. I just happen to see my Porsche 996 as a glass that is almost overflowing with pleasure to drive.

I don't get it either. Sorry.

Good idea. While I'd love to see likelihoods that's probably a sure way to head into pi$$ing match county. It would be useful to note whether certain generations are more at risk, eg I seem to recall that the D chunk stuff was a 3.4l engine issue and subsequently addressed in the 3.6l.

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101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 996 and 997 1998-2008 (Motorbooks Workshop): Wayne R. Dempsey: 9780760344033: Amazon.com: Books 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 996 and 997 1998-2008 (Motorbooks Workshop): Wayne R. Dempsey: 9780760344033: Amazon.com: Books

Nope, if its not all about Unicorns and Rainbows, people don't want to hear it. Nope, 3.4 engines with a D chunk are caused by factory repaired blocks fitted with sleeves, and their failures. Today we see more cracked 3.6 cylinders than any other. They form as cracks at the flame ring and lead to that crack becoming a perforation of the cylinder, leading to a D chunk. It would be nice to be able to share these things without being called a fear monger. That'll never happen.

My own take is that the middle generation bearing/shaft design was to compensate for the larger displacement and power of the 3.6 engine. As a design, it has proved to be less than perfect and so Porsche did a third generation design with a bigger bearing and that seems to be robust enough. As for the 1% failure rate of the last design, if we also consider all the mechanical things that could cause that one percent to fail, we might conclude that the bearing itself might be only one tenth of one percent of the failures. Given a choice of an aftermarket solution, including having a hole put in my block or pan for an extra oil line, I think I'd rather pay Porsche a little more to put in the whole new shaft assembly that they came up with. As for all the other modes, if all you see everyday are examples of engine problems, it obviously can taint your impression of an engine and the people who make it. The engine gets repaired and the mechanic begins to see themselves as the hero. I saw this with mechanics for other makes of cars. Each car had its horrible design flaws and the indie mechanic's solutions were always better than the factory original. I used to read about all the issues with the air cooled Porsches of the 70s and 80s and I wondered how Porsche could still be in business. Now people just love those cars and spend ten times more than they cost new to own one. Just my thoughts...with no monopoly on wisdom.

John, for some light (?) evening reading regarding European failures for the M96 97 engines from Hartech in the UK for your edification. Barry Hart is a professional engineer & the head honcho of Hartech. He is the opposite number to Jake Raby...... Look under Buyers Guide for a breakdown. http://www.hartech.org

It would be of great interest to see the mode of failure data broken down by model year. Maybe that's not available. Example: when they went to the larger IMSB in 2005 (I think that's right), what's the failure rate vs the previous years? I will definitely want to see an autopsy of my motor once the transplant is complete. A simple spread sheet with mode of failure -vs- model year might show some sort of trend. Plot it on an X/Y with one standard deviation and a correlation coefficient, and the picture would emerge. Add in some secondary factors, such as mileage, usage (ex: tracked cars vs little old lady type drivers), age of car at time of failure, etc., and I think a lot of the answers we all seek would become abundantly clear. After all, we now potentially have 15 years worth of data for a relatively high production volume vehicle. Jake, Schnelly's analogy is good (ex: a cardiologist is focused on heart-related issues/risks). Of course, you see the cars that have failed. And, of course, many cars never see any failure. So, your info tends to be looked at by some as "fear mongering," when in reality it is simply a discussion of the cars that have failed. A shame that a lot of the mode of failure info. has apparently been removed from your book. You seem like a stats guy and have more data compiled than any person. Maybe Porsche has this info., but they will never share it if they do. But, their interests are financial, so I doubt they kept much info beyond how many motors they replaced and what it cost them. I know that you keep all sorts of data far beyond that. Seems to me like the 996 failure data should be compiled in a table to allow for statistical analysis. I have never seen this, I've only seen stories of cars that have failed or not failed. Even the IMSB poll in this forum is not really very useful for statistical analysis. Ultimately, the biggest factor of all is the cost of these motors. When the motor failed in one of my Subarus, I thought the 3K cost to replace was prohibitive for that car. And, when the motor failed in my Lexus, I thought the 4K to replace was cost-prohibitive for that car. If only I could get a 4K or 5K or even 10K new motor for my 996, I'd be thrilled. So, when we are looking at a 20K motor to replace with 996s, what we really are looking at is a failure by Porsche to provide replacement motors at a reasonable cost. If the motors were reasonable in cost to replace, no one would worry very much about the potential for catastrophic failures.

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The same Hartech that says thousands of Porsches are at risk of serious engine trouble and yet offers to insure each and every one for a price.

Most of the banter here on the 996 forum always turns into some smart *** comment or stupid thread of how bad the 996 sucks. I happen to love my car and will drive it like I stole it. All cars and engines have issues. We can choose to focus on them or enjoy our cars. Enough already!

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decent compilation of information, keeping in mind obvious biases and that it's a business --appreciate the knowledge, however it comes.

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Actually, I think that is the biggest part that people like to complain about. Well, first, the engine shouldn't fail because of blah, blah, blah. And then, it costs HOW MUCH? The car itself isn't worth the price of a rebuilt engine!!!!!!! If you start to REALLY looking at the history, all of the 911 engines have had their problems. OK, maybe not as "catastrophic" as the M96/M97(yes I said that cause I have one and people don't realize that those two engines have a lot in common), but still expensive to fix. Even a rebuild on the aircooled engines are expensive, just as much as the M96/M97 engines. So, it's not like it's something that has just happened over the last 15 years. Now what has happened over the last 15 years is there are more Porsche's produced so it makes it easier for someone to obtain one especially with the entry price. I say the entry price but let's face it, 20 grand for a 10-15 year vehicle isn't cheap, but cheaper than the 3-5 year old Porsche. But, the 10-15 year old get's you almost the same performance at a fraction of the cost! Now that's a BARGAIN! BTW, Borescoring is a mode of failure and I don't think I saw that. But that one's interesting though, Hartech says it gets too hot while Jake says it's because of extreme cold conditions. I think it has more to do with tolerance's than anything, which Jake does mention. But I'm not a mechanic.

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Then it would probably be best for your blood pressure if you took the advice in the original post. If you don't like it, don't read it but, PLEASE don't come muck it up for those who desire a tangible discussion.

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How about releasing the data to a third party who will then "leak" it? I know you're writing a book and running a business but why keep valuable information away from your readers and customers (those who generate revenue for you) and give in to those who are most vocal? Why not ignore the few who call you names and make your life miserable online? Those who just can't face reality can simply put you on ignore and we all live happily ever after, right?

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You are saying two distinct things here, which probably deserve to be carefully separated and parsed. 1. How "common" are the items listed? I won't pick the IMS scab; a lot of the stuff sure sounds like it is quite uncommon . Random shootings make the news. The zillions of times that strangers walk by each other in the city without anything happening does not make the news. 2. Are these things "unique" to the 996, either in absolute terms, or in terms of incidents of occurrence? Although it is certainly his business, I was pretty surprised to learn that Jake will not include his information in his book. My take is that he will greatly reduce its sale potential. Is there really much more that needs to be said or written about the IMS? Really?

All engines have failure points. For example Benz M272 engines up to 2007 wear out the balance shaft requiring 4 - 7k in work to fix. BMW M60 and M62 suffer from the oil pump bolts dropping out causing the oil pump to stop pumping oil. The M62 will shred its timing chain guides possibly causing valve to pistion contact. To fix that is 5k at a decent shop. Thats not to even mention the whole nikasil issue. Porsche seem to be more expensive to fix right but that seems to be the only difference. Im sure you could do the same 26 methods of failure for multiple engines.

Thread started because people were bitching that this info wasn't being made available. Options as I see them: shrug and move on, or attempt to collate some semblance of that information. This is a 996 community, so it SHOULD be a decent source of 996-related data. Stands to reason, doesn't it? It's true that all engines have failure points, some of which are common. All trees have leaves, too - so f*****g what?

This is a good idea. I belong to a vintage BMW forum and the technical section is a veritable encyclopedia of common failures, faults and fixes. That information was derived from 40 years of hands-on experience with that particular model and its' variants. They keep the tech section informative, detailed, and most importantly, accurate . If a poster posts an innaccuracy, it gets edited and fixed. Once a topic is fully coverd, that thread is locked by the Moderators and used as a reference from then on. The "How to" and FAQ sections on that site are a must read for anyone who has those cars, and explodes beyond the best manuals available for the cars (Bentley) It takes a little Moderator activity to keep the section accurate, but it has become THE go-to reference for e23/e28/e32/e34 and various //M owners. It started life as an e28 only site, but the knowledge base is so vast that it has casually morphed to include other models as well...still all early examples, however. I like this idea, each "failure item" should be accompanied with preventative options, or after the fact repair suggestions. While JR is very knowledgable on the cars, he has a vested commercial interest as well, and protects some of his ideas and products from the mainstream. That isn't necessarily helpful in the big picture as a resource for 996 owners all over the world. This site (with expansive tutorials) would fill that need nicely. .02

it seems the other 22 modes of failure are getting lost...or may not be that big an issue. Anybody have stuff to add on the chain drives or oil pumps or heads cracking?

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The connection between very low temperatures (ambient) and cly scoring has been documented in our area (Ontario) and I personally know of three local owners who have had this failure mode. Yet I don't know any local owners with an IMS related blow up. Funny huh? All three owners regularly drove their 996's year round including very cold starts (sub zero) after sitting outside for hours. Jake has some pretty good data that he has correlated on geographic locations against certain types of failures so if he is seeing scoring from northern climates that have winters that regularly get below 0C/32F compared to say southern climates, I would take that to the bank as there doesn't appear to be any benefit to be gained by him for stating an opinion on geographic location vrs type of failure modes he has found. IMHO based upon years of starting cold soaked cars of many brands: these issues are more prevalent to higher performing cars (closer engine tolerances) that are not plugged into heater core units. You have an engine matching outside temperatures after many hours and the oil film pretty much becomes a frozen sheen on the cylinder lining with the oil chilled into a grade near a 50 weight grade instead of a 0W grade. So guess what is going to happen for the first two or three minutes of an engine start in these conditions? Multiply this by hundreds of starts in these conditions for a 10+ year old car... This is a reason why I park my car in a warm garage in early November, plug it in and then leave it alone until April when I start it back up for the first time in 5 1/2 months. As far as this firm in the UK: They don't see the temperature ranges that Jake sees as he is receiving engines from the US south and northern Canada. I very much doubt Hartech is getting engines from Norway and southern Spain - at least not enough to form an opinion based on a high enough sample rate.

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John, do you want to flesh these out so we can add them to the list? I'm happy to keep the list updated, but I don't have the expertise to populate it single-handedly. Cracked heads due to uneven cooling (water pump debris): #9 Cracked heads due to poor casting: #10 Oil pump failure due to snapped hex drive: #1 If you have additional items to add, or links to add to existing items, please post them up and I will work to keep the list updated and linked.

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Totally agree with you. If you want to prolong the life of your engine, live in a warm climate or park it in a warm garage all the time, you can leave it out in freezing temps for short periods of time outside in freezing temps as long as the coolant and engine remain warm. Also nlot's of NA cold climate 996's also had more RMS seals replaced under warranty then our warm climate dealers.

One thing that concerns me and has not been mentioned yet is the Porsche recommended oil service intervals. The Australian oil replacement service is scheduled every 2 years or 15,000km (10,000 miles) which is less than (I think) Northern America & I've just read in 911 & Porsche World magazine that the latest 991 requires oil changes every 2 years / 20,000 miles !! OK, most of us here change the lube out more frequently but Mr Average who even bothers to read the handbook......?? I suspect that these extended drain intervals have a direct correlation on engine longevity (bore / piston wear, chain ramps / bearings etc) whatever climate you live in.....

The book isn't about sales.. I doubt I'll ever make a dollar off of it considering the time that it has taken to create. The book is primarily about how to properly assemble an M96 engine, its a technical directive, not some sort of history of the engine, or etc. Today we see more random failures than we do IMSB failures. 2014 was the year of the failed rod bolt, as we saw more of those than anything else. Last year was the year of the failed timing chain, 2013 was the year of intermix. So many cars have been retrofitted by this point (over 20,000 alone with the products I have developed) and owners are more aware of IMSB symptoms, so the failures are greatly minimized. In December we received 29 failure calls, thats up 7 failure calls from this time last year. Of those we had 7 IMSB failures and the rest were various failures according to their symptoms. The 7 IMSB failure calls is down 4 over this time last year. So much more could be shared and learned if people would leave me the hell alone with their comments and opinions and let me share what I see exactly as it presents it's self to me. That won't happen; because everyone is too afraid that the truth will diminish the value of their car. Its easier to call the researcher a "fear monger" than anything else, even though he is just doing his job, and is the last of a renegade breed that tells it like it is. Thats easy to say, much more difficult to apply. The vocal ones are always the guys that don't even know what a piston is, but they know every statistic about everything, and they know all the best parts and etc to use, but they don't even have an 8mm hex to change their own oil with; because they couldn't work their way out of a cardboard box with a sledge hammer. Deciding to pull all the failure info from the book was a decision that I considered for over a solid year. I decided that I didn't want a bunch of whiners downing the entire book, and all of it's technical content, just because I showed them 27 ways the their engine could fail, with detailed info and pics of each case in point. Thats exactly what would have happened. I decided not to give them the opportunity to have my pain become their pleasure as they sit behind their monitor postured for keyboard combat.

Jake, what would really be helpful is a list of things one could do to HELP prevent the failures before they occur. Maybe there isn't anything other than regular maintenance, but if there is and you know what would help that would be nice. For instance I know you suggest using the magnetic plug along with the spin on filter kit and DT40 oil and you've already stated the reasons for this. Some still don't do it but many like myself do and appreciate the info. Once an engine needs to be gone thru its a whole new ballgame and I understand that it can be greatly improved upon.

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JD, The issue with this angle is people just claim that we are saying these things to sell parts. This is because as I research and identify issues I am working to create the fix for the issues. But, I don't sell parts and I haven't in years. Still doesn't stop people from countering every bit of good information with "he just says that to sell us a part". The world is filled with vendor haters, and I am convinced that 75% of them reside on Rennlist, in the 996 forum. I can move one forum to the 997 forum and the whole attitude changes, and people are dying for failure information. I have tried in every way to share the information, but around every corner is another smart *** that creates his pleasure through my pain. It matters nothing to him, because he has a fictional username, and anything he says won't impact him, it'll only impact me, and he likes that; because he hates the fact that I make money by working with the car that he loves. I have tried my own forums, I have tried most everything. The only thing thats effective is saying nothing. I plan to disappear from here as my New Year's Resolution, and I'd almost appreciate it if the admin would ban me simply so I have no ability to post. Yes, that magnetic drain plug that Porsche hasn't offered since the 964 is a great preventative component, but it was my idea to make it and I developed it, so if I say that you should use it, its just a shameless plug and I get my *** spanked for it.

What I am interested in are failures that are exclusive to the M96. Chains stretching, oil pumps failing, rod bearings spinning, tensioners failing, head gaskets blowing and coolant mixing with oil... all this is stuff is as old as the automobile. We have all watched on television as very very very expensive F1 motors have failed, and LeMans cars have crapped out, and the simple fact is that cars break down. All makes. All models. But if there are specific factors unique to the M96 that fail, those I want to hear about. And I want to know under what conditions they failed and in what numbers they have failed. As Mark Twain said, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. So just numbers alone can be misleading. But a good beginning would be to hear from those of you who have had engine failures caused by the unique design of some part of the M96 motor. If it doesn't meet that specific standard then it is just car stuff that could happen to anyone in any kind of car.

First, thank you 5CHN3LL for this great thread and I think it is very useful. Johnireland, let's not forget the big elephant in the room; her name is "age". **** gets old and breaks down. Best recourse, preemptively rebuild. How often? Well, how much do you love your car? Or better yet, how deep is your pocket? @ 150K perhaps?

Jake, I guess the same people that think you're trying to sell parts that you actually don't sell and hate you for it must really hate the indies and the Porsche dealers. Every BUSINESS tries to make money but some of them also help, my view is you've been one of those. Maybe some owners think the problems will go away if we on this forum don't hear about them from a business owner, the fact is that the business owner is the one who sees the problems and can inform us about them. I understand your position though and actually don't know how you've lasted as long as you have on the forum.

A statement like "the M96 is a ticking time bomb" is fear mongering. A statement like "we have documented XX modes of failure in the M96 engine, here is the documented proof and our advice on how to prevent them" is not.

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Jake, I greatly respect the knowledge you have developed about this automobile, and I appreciate the time you spent with me recently, discussing my own issue, but you are whining like a little kid. Please stop. No one is forcing you to do anything, and certainly not to spend time on an internet message board, or preventing you from putting in the book whatever you feel will be helpful. And it really doesn't matter whether you define "helpful" in terms of sales volume, or the number of people who are helped by having the information. The end result is the same. I readily concede that there is a lot of passive-aggressive posting on here, whistling past the graveyard denial/bitterness by folks who maybe feel cheated out of some resale value, or feel stupid for having bought the car, but can't bring themselves to admit it. But NOBODY is preventing you from "telling it like it is" (my words), where this car is concerned, exccept yourself.

Maybe the concept of a scientific date base provided by random individuals is not realistic on the internet. So far every attempt that I have seen to start a reasoned and calm dialog on the 996 engines turns into a love/hate discussion about Jake or the people who tried to start the thread. I have found good bits and pieces of useful information on these threads, but not a reasoned discussion of them. For me, at this point, I think the best bet is for everyone to turn off the noise and just be your own expert about your own car. Have a dialog with whoever you've chose to work on your car, and if you aren't comfortable owning the car after that, sell it and buy something else.

And the baiting just continues..........if I was Jake I'd tell yuh a few of you to F off. This thread was destined for the toilet as you can see tried and true owners refuse to get in on this. Merry Christmas!

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I agree completely. If you have valuable information that you seem to want to share with the community, then you should share it. Especially since you have he data to back it up. Not sharing/publishing it for the reasons you provide are not strong reasons. There will always be people who won't believe you even when given hard data. Those people are not your target audience and you should not care about what they think. I have not read any threads that bash you and most of what I read is the opposite so I really am having a hard time understanding your decisions. Obviously it's still your choice at the end of the day, but you put out this persona of wanting to benefit the 996 enthusiast community and when a good number of those people are asking for data you possess, all they are getting are flimsy reasons not to provide the data. I don't get it.

To properly convey the details behind each mode of failure requires offering a resolution to the issue, as well as stating the issue. This is where things get tough, because I research the issues in order to develop components and processes to prevent them from occurring; whether I sell those things individually, or as part of my engine. Due to this the general feelings are that I have simply overstated the issues to sell more engines. If I sold parts, people would claim that I just want to sell more parts. The truth is, that no one could afford to learn about all the things that we have unless they were carrying out the research as part of business. My problem is that I expect people to be grateful to receive the information enough not to complain about it, but doing that sets me up for disappointment every single time. I also expect members of the forum to somewhat police themselves enough to shut another guy up when he complains about the free information that he is being given that may save his engine; but that also doesn't happen. Moving forward the answer may be a separate site where subscriptions can be made for technical data, (internal engine specifications, tuning data, and other info that is otherwise non- existent) and access to another set of private, paid forums where these things are shared. In my experience the people that cause trouble won't go to a site and pay to enter it if they are going to be a hater. Doing this will also help fund research that is continually ongoing, and costs a ton of money every year that comes out of my pocket. The information would be paid for in a few ways, and it wouldn't be expensive. This is the same structure that Porsche TSI uses for technical data, but too bad hardly any of it is there for the engines. As I sit here at damn near 0200 on Xmas morning, designing two new IMS Retrofit support tools, and think about all of this, I want to help the people that ow these cars as well as the technicians that put food on the table by working on them. Being able to do this without tattooing a target on my back, is a near impossible task in today's world, and thats what pisses me off. I have also considered selling my data to someone else who may be willing to post it, or publish it. Doing this would get the info out there, and not directly tie me into the negative aspects related to releasing the data, and I'd want no credit for compiling it. There's lots of ways to do it, but all have an equal amount of pros and cons. Ok, back to my tool project, my 3 year old will probably be up in a couple of hours waiting to see what Santa brought.

Have a merry Christmas Jake, some of here appreciate the work you've spend working on these engines. Hopefully I'll be able to save enough cash one day to have my engine done properly.

Jake, just remember that those haters are a very small minority. I, as a prospective 996 buyer, have found your depth of knowledge fascinating. I see your offerings as a huge incentive to buy the car. I am sure I am not alone on this forum having dumped tons of cash into a toy car. With a reconstruction the car is probably good for another 10 years, and it can be had in impressive hot rod versions! Seems like a small price to pay for what becomes useable, entertaining, total package. Thanks for sticking your neck out when you feel you can, I always find it concise, factual and, informative. Now I already have spoken out in your defense, at least once, when a member has been way off. I am willing to continue that, whether it helps or not, if you are willing to continue sharing knowledge. I do think the reasons for not sharing are overblown but, everybody has their own level of tolerance. Anyway, MERRY CHRISTMAS and, I LOVE what you have done for this community. Let us move forward next year, not regress, not surrender

Jake, enjoy your Christmas and ignore the noise. On other news: Can we get back to the issue of how can we avoid those things listed by Schnelly? Somewhere along the line, this thread got high-jacked. Let's get back on track.

MERRY CHRISTMAS JAKE. The majority of us are thankful for your contributions and put much stock into them.

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Jake, I don't think anyone here doubts your expertise and experience. And if so, only a very few... It's more the overall conclusions you state or imply about the 996 that can occasionally cause conflict. Your posts/articles usually have great info. ...but you can also come across a bit pedantic and self serving*, and sometimes you take the data and info from your experiences and generalize them a bit too broadly into conclusions. That's when we cross from facts to opinion. And yes, openly sharing information is not always 'best for business'. And if you have a good idea, others will claim credit for it and/or duplicate it. It's the way of the world. And if people disagree with you on the internet, or if they think that you extend your data to unfounded conclusions, they will say so. Still doesn't mean you shouldn't share. So here's a thought... Stick around. Go ahead and share on this post your failure modes. Don't have to go into details, just 1 through 24 or whatever your up to now. That would be a valuable and magnanimous contribution. It's when you extend the existence of those failure modes (which few doubt) into absolute conclusions about the worthiness of the 996 or ultimate reliability of the M96 vs. other Porsche engines or just other engines in general that conflict arises. * Hope you don't take this the wrong way. I'm sure I often come off as a complete tool, especially on the internet where it's a bit more difficult to be informative without appearing as a know-it-all, satirical without being confused for an idiot, etc. It's hard to nuance communications on the internet, but it doesn't mean you should just leave either.

I'm new and have not obviously earned my dues here yet in terms of giving anyone any advice so please take this the right way. Just an idea...What if we turned this thread into a 'What Preventive Maintenance Can Be Done to Prevent Catastrophic Failures in the Future' discussion? Just thinking if that would be more constructive... As an example: - Replace IMS - Oil change every 5k miles or 6 months - Install magnetic drain plug - etc, etc

ejs1, I agree with you but it seems whenever its mentioned to change the IMSB it causes problems. The guys that have umteen thousand miles with no problems shout that its not necessary, the guys that do it shout that its the best way to ward off almost certain failure, and it goes on and on. As far as the oil change interval and type of oil go that will always be another issue with no definitive answer. Some swear Porsche knows best with their approved oils and maintenance schedule while others swear there is a better way. I cant figure why anyone would buck the magnetic drain plug but there are some who will, a few broke putting them on possibly to tight so maybe thats the reason. My personal opinion which is as worthless as anyone elses except that it makes me happy is to use DT5/40 oil , a magnetic drain plug, a spin on filter without the bypass, and to replace the stock IMSB as soon as comfortably possible. I usually have real good luck so I think my engine will last forever but it never hurts to help the odds.

Understood. Maybe it should then be called "preventive maintenance for the paranoid owner"

ejs1, That sounds perfect. Don't forget the waterpump, aos, chain tensioners, chains and rails, etc. The list goes on forever, just decide how paranoid you are and go from there. If you live in Las Vegas you also have to deal with half the people driving have been at a casino and that the casino serves free drinks. Everything is a gamble!

A preventative thread would be a lot different than this one. The problem is several of the issues are deeply internal and have no preventative possible. I've received several PMs and emails about this thread. Time to go away for a while.

Some of these Posters are just armchair mechanics.That is O.K. but please leave Jake alone. A few of us are struggling to rebuild an M96 to a standard that overcomes the issues Jake has kindly explained. Without Jake, I would have just sold mine (probably to him !) as a comparatively worthless roller. So I am biased by $ and reality toward supporting Jake. I like it that he cares enough to be offended by the haters. Without some emotion, there is no way he would have developed all the fixes for the M96. It certainly wasn't for profit -see below. Without those fixes any Porsche with an M96 is worth much less. The fact that a repair/upgrade is available through him or LN, supports the price of our cars. The LN filter fitted to my car by the P.O. saved it from a a total catastrophe . The information he freely gave convinced me to attempt a diy rebuild because I could not afford his engine ,nor could I attend his class. Despite this he has talked me through several issues that would have otherwise defeated me in diagnosing the cause of failure and deciding what could be saved and what was junk in the engine. I have never paid him a penny, probably never will -he knows it ,yet he still replies to my Posts . Yes, he sometimes sounds more like Riddler than Moses but if that keeps him engaged -great ! The good news is that if you rebuild an M96 and have this list of Modes of Failure, you can at least attempt to make the engine better than new ! 5CHN3LL had a wonderfully positive idea with this Thread -please continue but delete the hate, armchair pontificating and whining . On other Forums I participate in ,the Moderator just deletes these useless posts to maintain the standards of the Forum. I suggest Rennlist do the same to support the value of their franchise. If Jake starts his own pay-to-play Forum, I would join immediately because of the technical value and would seldom need to visit Rennlist. And the haters/whiners would have won. Sad & unnecessary imho.

Just going a bit off topic here, the nature of a forum is freedom of expression; no one has to agree with anyone else's opinion. Moderators are there to enforce the rules of the forum not to delete the posts of members whose opinions differ from their own. I for one would not be a member of a forum where that was the case. Also note that a lot of people pay to support this forum.

Quotes source post: 11898701

Have there been many oil pump failures?

Here is one for the 5CHN3LL list: "Pin" the IMS sprocket to the IMS tube. http://cantechautomotive.com/wp-cont...2/DSCN3941.jpg And if you have the opportunity: replace knock sensors+check k.s. wiring harness+connector integrity. Why? because they are buried and time consuming to replace. Be careful to follow the instructions when replacing them. It would be very disappointing to replace old but working k.s. and then get a P032*/P033* code ! This is an example of a fault that is not more prevalent on the M96(??) than other engines but it is a major issue to correct because of accessibility. As the engines age, the sensors are more likely to fail. Yes, you can ignore it -but only until Smog Test time. " Replacing the knock/detonation sensor pigtail harness has become a common repair for the Porsche 996 Turbo. During periods of storage, ..."