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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH996: Supply and Demand Realities
Leading reported evidence
Clean narrowbody cars command premiums
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Suggestion
Desirable high mile 993s like the Turbo and S models, or even clean narrowbody cars command premiums.
Leading evidence: 'Clean narrowbody cars command premiums' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean narrowbody cars command premiums' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion · Original poster
So, in addition to the possible (and unquantifiable) impact that repair problems and any lack of cache may have had on the 996, simple supply and demand tells us that values will be less.
Replace should be worth...well...it should be priceless
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Suggestion
At this rate, a fully functional 996 with an LNE IMS Bearing and frequent oil changes should be worth...well...it should be priceless!
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Suggestion
I think there's more used 996s in the market because the typical 993 (or older) owners (at least the 2 I know) think air cooled is the holy grail and would never consider a newer water cooled car no matter how nice; while a 996 owner with a 10-15 year old car now has no problem moving into a 997-991.
Use best battery maintainer, what psi the tires should be
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Suggestion
To me that's a win/win situation and a lot more exciting than classic cars that rarely get driven and where most of topics gravitate towards what kind of wax to use, best battery maintainer, what psi the tires should be for storage, best car cover, look at the poster/car model I got to put on the wall, etc...
Repair problems and any lack of cache may have had
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Suggestion · Original poster
So, in addition to the possible (and unquantifiable) impact that repair problems and any lack of cache may have had on the 996, simple supply and demand tells us that values will be less.
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Suggestion
I think there's more used 996s in the market because the typical 993 (or older) owners (at least the 2 I know) think air cooled is the holy grail and would never consider a newer water cooled car no matter how nice; while a 996 owner with a 10-15 year old car now has no problem moving into a 997-991.
Use best battery maintainer, what psi the tires should be
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Suggestion
To me that's a win/win situation and a lot more exciting than classic cars that rarely get driven and where most of topics gravitate towards what kind of wax to use, best battery maintainer, what psi the tires should be for storage, best car cover, look at the poster/car model I got to put on the wall, etc...
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30 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
the slab door sides and fried egg headlights did not help the lines of the car IMHO
I just posted this to another thread and thought it might stand well by itself. I am in no way denying the negative effects of 996 problems like IMS or the perception of quality may have had on the values of these amazing cars. But I've never thought that was the entire story, or even the major cause of the relatively low valuation of the 996 series compared to other 911 models.
I suspect that many Rennlisters underestimate the impact that the basic laws of
supply and demand
have had on 996 values. History shows that an easier to drive and live with sports car, combined with favorable lease and loan rates, created a tremendous bubble of productivity and sales, saving Porsche from potential bankruptcy or purchase by Mercedes or any of the other car companies hovering like buzzards in the early to mid-90s.
The Facts and the Math:
Porsche produced 68,000 or so 993 models of all types between 1995 and 1998. From 1998 to 2004 Porsche produced around
175,000
996 models of all types. Yes, there are a few more years of 996 production, but sales averaged 17K/year for the 993, and 29K/year for the 996. That is nearly a 70% increase in sales.
Simply put, there are a whole lot of 996s available for sale. So, in addition to the possible (and unquantifiable) impact that repair problems and any lack of cache may have had on the 996, simple supply and demand tells us that values will be less.
One other thing to consider is this. Most 993s are not driven daily so the mileage on an average sample size will be lower than on the 996 side.
If a 993 has high mileage you almost never see it offered at these crazy prices. Granted it'll still be worth more than the equivalent 996 but if you actually drive a 993 don't expect to see your car to give you a high return on investment.
This is why 996 turbo model resale stinks. Porsche got too greedy and absolutely flooded the market. In terms of body structure strength, the 996 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 993. A 996 is a true everyday sportscar which is why you see the mileage you do.
eh, not sure I agree.
Back when the cars were new, 993s were used as daily cars, just like the 996s that followed. Maybe a bit less, percentage wise, but still a useable every day car.
Desirable high mile 993s like the Turbo and S models, or even clean narrowbody cars command premiums. Try finding a C2S with $80k miles for less than $45k or even $50k. A five year newer 03 C4S can be had with the same miles for $35k or thereabouts.
artificial?
Not sure I agree again. Fact is, it was the last air cooled 911 built...and the company's roots were in air cooled cars. That means something to a lot of 911 enthusiasts, whether its intrinsically valuable or not.
That's a sensible frame for looking at 996 price trends.
Of course, the global market for luxury items is expanding and the number of 996s in great condition is contracting. This is how a well-fettled midyear 911 draws respectable bank even though 'everyone knows' they're awful, awful, no good very bad cars: there's always a decent market for a good 911.
The 996 is not what I'd buy to make money, but then no car is.
All interesting observations - I bought the best car I could for the money I had at the time and that is/was a 2002 C4 Cab. I've done a lot of feature enhancements such as head unit , exhaust, black anodized pedals, PSS10s, wheel spacers, and then worked the "maintenance items" brakes, tires, clutch, IMS, RMS, AOS, water pump and oil sending unit. I have a car that probably isn't a wise investment - that's what stocks, bonds, CDs, property etc are for. This car is fun to drive and that's why I bought it - end of story.
This thread is just dumb like most of the other ones. lol. j/k
People should know the 996 isn't the car to get if you're in it for resale values/investment. I don't even know why people bring these up all the time IMO.
What's positive for me is that this car model is turning more into a cult car than a classic car status. And as such with cult status, you have more true enthusiasts that really elevate this hobby and car through better information as well as seeing diy/pioneers that come out of the woodwork here and there.
To me that's a win/win situation and a lot more exciting than classic cars that rarely get driven and where most of topics gravitate towards what kind of wax to use, best battery maintainer, what psi the tires should be for storage, best car cover, look at the poster/car model I got to put on the wall, etc...
I think there's more used 996s in the market because the typical 993 (or older) owners (at least the 2 I know) think air cooled is the holy grail and would never consider a newer water cooled car no matter how nice; while a 996 owner with a 10-15 year old car now has no problem moving into a 997-991. I was told my 99 was a trade in on a 991.
One must also consider that the IMS and other assorted engine failure have had a negative impact on values.
NA 997.1 values seem "ok" for now but I'm guessing those cars may also suffer value declines for similar reasons. Time will tell.
I agree with that. My point though was to get a premium price you have to treat the vehicle as a museum piece. If you use it you'll continue chipping away at it's current value.
I love all of this intellectual-ism.
What is interesting is some of the first water-cooled porsches have also had a growth in value... the lowly 944. Hagerty puts a base (non-turbo, non-S) condition #3 "driver" at close to $7K... not sure if this is due the lack of enough non-screwed up examples/crashed/converted to race cars.
April 2010 = $3,600... April 2014 = $ 6,700
http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtool...port?vc=883721
I think some will argue that the boxster will follow the 944s path. I think the 996 won't be far off that same trajectory unless you are fortunate enough to own a Turbo, GTx or something unique.
So yes, enjoy the snot out of your 996... and then in 10 years... sell it, if you can bear to part with it.
The problems haven't effected the cars as much as most people think.. Look at the new price of a Cayenne and the current value of one of them today, even with lower mileage. The same goes for all sorts of European cars, BMWs and etc are included.
I recently bought my wife an E46 M3 for a ridiculously low price.
The reason why the 993s are worth so much is because they are the end of an era... and because they don't have radiators. Guys like me tend to favor those more :-)
have to agree - the last of the air-cooled are a more classic design and will always be much more valuable than the 996. no way around it.
i've owned 2 993's and still think the 996 is a better drivers car.
Depreciation curve is severe on all late model cars, and it will only get worse. Western economic system is 100% consumption driven and based on the planned obsolescence of the products.
With businesses being pressured to increase sales every year, it makes zero sense to manufacture products that last for ages. With cars, it was possible for many years to produce bullet proof car that will last you a lifetime. But marketing gurus learned their lessons from Swiss watch makers and pushed the "buy newer, buy often" philosophy on the gullible population.
If 996 was bullet proof and had Honda-like motor, why would anyone bother buying the 997 or 991?
Here is the guy who got 1 million miles out of 1991 accord
by means of simple PM. Honda gave him a new one for free. Now, imagine if all of a sudden everyone decided that they no longer need worthless "stuff" and "new stuff" and "new cars". If this were to happen, 90% of US population would be unemployed overnight.
Ya me to, maybe not value, but price.
Just drove my dad's new ford fusion . Worth about the same as I paid for my car. It all works fine , but what a pos. nothing drives and feels like the 996
There may have been 175,000 996's produced, but thanks to IMS failures and bore scoring, there are only about 13,000 left running. At this rate, a fully functional 996 with an LNE IMS Bearing and frequent oil changes should be worth...well...it should be priceless!
Read enough on this forum and you might come to believe that all 996s will explode, and any that have not are worth about $10K. My original post was simply a little data-driven pushback on the relative value proposition as it relates to reliability concerns.
Feel free not to participate.
