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YOUR RESEARCHAir-cooled elitism
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Check numerous times
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I had it checked numerous times but since it had been converted to r143a it just never worked that great.
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The parts were not made to uniform specs and had to be hand fitted on the cars.
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Lots of things have changed with that over the years.
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However I ran into a super elitist one at cars and coffee yesterday.
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The 993 in base form was 5K cheaper than the 964 and for the first time Porsche used a wire harness that didn't have every wire for every option already in place, that saved weight and cost, too.
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Suggestion
I didn't think it would matter much, but I have noticed some behavioral changes, including a penchant for hip-hop and an uncontrollable urge to install a chain steering wheel.
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to the owner of this plate
...and I bet your first car was Fred Flintstones car too, which would make sense that you don't get technology and appreciate how things progress. Go back to your rocking chair.
As much as I like the air cooled models, they're just not practical in my book. The only way that I would own one if it was just a weekend good weather car (which would probably never happen as I like using and abusing my cars and toys). And the only reason I hate them is because of its egoist owners that keep bashing the more practical and faster water pushers.
All 911's have their charms. But some spend more time on the disabled list than others...
The newest air cooled 911 is still 17 years old. This one is 35 (!!) years old now.
I never understood that, is the air cooling the main thing that makes that the last 911? Is that their argument? I am not sure why i would care how that engine is getting it's cooling as long as it's adequate and it doesn't break down.
Mine too and quite possibly my favorite car of the bunch. That 500E is the only car in the fleet with a radiator outside my '92 gray market (Dutch military surplus) 300GE Gelandewagen. That's what belongs in the missing spot.
The other garage bay is a little more diverse... :-)
Should have "accidentally" backed into it and insisted on submitting it to insurance.
Would have gotten a free car when the owner dropped dead over the visions of lost value
Please note my avatar.
<======
Air Cooled. Water Cooled. Faithful Dog. (not in photo - Tolerant Wife Of 37+ Years)
Or maybe we should talk about REAL cars with a Straight Eight.
Life is Good - living the dream.
I have a couple straight eight Buicks. Dad drag raced 'em back in the '50's, stellar.
I've had the air cooled cars too, but they didn't compare with my '99 for daily driveability. Plus, the a/c actually works rather than the damp mist effect.
I had a 996 because NA 993s are too slow. Then moved to a 993TT because 996TTs are already too fast for backroad twisties. It was an adjustment back to a 993TT and their handling characteristics but perfect for a weekend car. 996 and newer are perfect for daily use.
Until I bought a Boxster to begin M96 development (followed by a 996) I had never, ever owned a car with a radiator. That Boxster was the first water cooled Porsche that ever rolled it's tire on my property!
I don't think all air cooled owners are elitist, most are great guys and car enthusiasts. However I ran into a super elitist one at cars and coffee yesterday. He had a 1996 C4S with 130k miles on the clock. I went up to talk to him about his car because it was beautiful and had obviously had some nice work done to it. When he asked what I had, he basically told me my car is junk and has no value, and that the only thing a 996 is good for is to be gutted to use as a track car. I definitely took offense to that. I have 2004 C2 cab with only 17k miles on it. My car still even smells new inside still. It is babied and we'll taken car of, far from junk. We were actually the only two 911s at the event that day. Would have been nice if he showed a little Porsche pride and had respect for other people's cars even if it is a water pusher.
Honestly, the way all the lines come together on the front of a 993 aren't any more or less appealing to me than the ones on the 996. When people tell me that my 996's headlights aren't round, I show them that they really are, it's just that there's a clear plastic cover over them that the old cars didn't have.
IOW, changing the 996 headlight covers to a mostly body color part makes them look the same to me as the 993.
I don't get it.
From the Rolex 24:
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/porsch...ver-1681640249
Just a data point.
I own both.
I think I still prefer my 964 as a driver. I must admit that I drive it less these days, just because I want to keep it longer. So, the 996 gets "used up", instead. Just a few years ago, the 964 was the cheap 911 that got dis'd.
The bottom line is that both of my 911's get driven as much as possible. I wish I could drive my Packard Super Eight more.
I like both and would love to have a "classic Porsche." My point was only the idiocy of some people believing that air cooled were the last real 911s, and consequently their attitude. By the same token perhaps 997.2 owners can claim "last true mechanical Porsche" compared to the 991.
I'm not accusing the owner of the vehicle I posted of being in that camp - for all I know it was tongue-in-cheek.
Porsche 911's are all about fun and enthusiasm. When they stop being that, it's time to move on. Share the fun.
Several years ago, there was a rash of elitism in the Packard world. In 1932, Packard introduced the model 900 "Shovel Nose" series of Packards that were intended to appeal, and sell, to the lesser crowd of car buyers. (but still cost a Lot more than a Ford). In the years of collector cars that grew in the 50's/60's/70's...., the Shovel Nose Packards were snubbed by those who decided which cars were Classics. Same thing happened to the 110 and 120 model Packards introduced in 1935 - they were just not Real Packards. My 1933 Packard is a Super Eight model 1003, obviously far superior to the Eight model 1001 and 1002. Of course, the Packard Twelve model 1005 owners look down on the lowly Super Eights.
Have fun with your toys and don't take the fun away from another guy or gal's toy.
Well, unless he drives an Edsel.
If they are so great, why couldn't Porsche sell more of them? The company was going broke before the Boxter and the 996. The only reason the 993 is worth more is because there are so many fewer of them. And that is because they couldn't sell them.
That is what I always ask AC people. If the 996 is so bad and the 993 so good, why do the sales figures say otherwise?
Didn't the move to the 996 add more automation to the process and thus allow them to produce more cars?
I don't recall there being an overstock of 993s that they just dumped off the side of a ship because no one would buy them...
I've heard the "more were made" argument before and I just don't buy that there was that much more demand (though it was a pain to get a C4 build slot...). I think its simply that they could produce more and at a faster rate since more off the shelf parts used and the whole cross pollination with the 986.
That's an interesting argument. I have never read that in any of the Porsche books, and I am sure they would have said that they changed to the 996 in order to meet demand. Also, they made the 993 for several years, and if they could make money by producing more and selling them at a premium they would have.
The 993 is a quirky dated car with a loyal following. And I get and appreciate that. I have never heard or read anyone, even the air cooled elitists say the 993 was a better car. It's not.
But it's rarer and more desirable to some.
Because accountants weren't running the show, and the cars were much more hand built.
BTW- The 993 is the only aircooled Porsche, but is certainly what everyone compares to. I'll take my SC or Carrera anyway over my 993. My 964 was once the ugly duckling, but it has grown on me. My favorite of all of them is my 88 Carrera.
The 993 was the beginning of Porsches turn toward more creature comforts and mass production. The 993 in base form was 5K cheaper than the 964 and for the first time Porsche used a wire harness that didn't have every wire for every option already in place, that saved weight and cost, too.
The 996, being softer, more comfortable, with better AC, a larger interior, etc appealed to a wider audience than the arguably nostalgic 993.
The camry is one of the best selling cars in the world. whats that tell you? not much.
To make this statement without taking into consideration the world's economic state at that time is....
US was just coming out of a recession in the early 90s and 993 sales far exceeded 964 sales during the recession. Plus the popularity of leasing in the late 90s allowed Porsche sell more units.
Porsche was selling 993 inventory at a discount when 996s came out...
Porsche also knew their biggest clientele were aging, and would want less service and more creature comforts.
Emissions compliance is what drove away the aircooled engine, ultimately. It was near impossible for an aircooled engine to pass the heat shed test. Also, fitting 2 exhaust valves into an aircooled cylinder head is sure to cause thermal control issues.
Thank you for telling the truth that the transition was with the 993 and not the 996. It happened in the early 90s with the 993 as you point out. Porsche changed their production techniques and brought in Toyota in the early 1990s when they were changing over from the 964 to the 993. The 996 used the same production techniques and same production lines as the 993.
Further, the "old ways" were nothing like they are claimed to be. A lot of the change in production technique was just making the production methods modern and better. Porsche in the 80s had terrible manufacturing process. The parts were not made to uniform specs and had to be hand fitted on the cars. What the purists call hand made industrial engineers call poor manufacturing quality.
As far as the issue of the cost of production, there are two things. First, the cars didn't sell in numbers. Sure, Porsche made more money per car off the 996 than it did off the 993, but it didn't lose money selling a 993. They just couldn't sell enough of them to stay profitable overall. And the reason why they didn't sell many of them is because Porsches had outside of the cult lost a lot of their reputation for reliability and simplicity. Why buy a 993 and risk the valve guides wearing out when you could buy a Corvette or NSX that costs less and wouldn't have that problem? And oh by the way because it was water cooled out perform the 911 without handling characteristics that were designed to actively try and murder you.
Second about the cost of production, the cost went down because Porsche learned how to manufacture more efficiently. They didn't just cut back on quality. They actually increased quality while also getting much more efficient at how they made the vehicle. Before the early 90s change, they would assemble a car literally by having people walk back into a huge parts rack area, find the next part to go on the car, and custom fit it to the car, which was necessary since the parts were not as uniform as they should have been. Afterwards, they had an actual modern assembly line where the parts were on hand and always fit and production became much more efficient.
All of this is well known and documented. There are multiple books that talk about the effect Toyota had on Porsche and the transformation that occured in the early 1990s. Why AC people continue to push the myth that production methods changed with the 996 rather than the early 90s is beyond me. Thanks for getting the date right Jack.
The truth is that as much as I like old cars, I own and old car, they are not as well built or engineered as new ones. They just aren't. I view the change from the 964 to the 993 as a good one. If I was going to go AC, I would either by a pre 73 one or I would take a 993. The ones in between are just compromises between the original and the quality of the one made via modern manufacturing techniques.
there is so much ridiculous nonsense in here it would take a few hours just to go through it all.
Lets just say I disagree, especially about the quality bit.
Just look at how the interior pieces of a 993 are assembled vs. that of a 996 (i.e. screws vs. plastic clips)
For the record, the interior quality of my '03 996 is far better than that of my '95 993. On the 993 the material on the underside of the drivers arm rest was coming apart...and the glove box door latch kept breaking so that the glove box kept popping open. While I prefer the lower tech simplicity of the older cars, the build quality of my 996 is much better than my 993 or my 964.
On paper the newer cars might be more structurally stiff but in real life the AC cars feel more stout - especially when closing a door.
The older cars also used less of the type of plastic you see in cars today. It was more like small aircraft grade plastic instead of vehicle plastic. Sort of hard to explain. But I know when I was taking flying lessons in an old Cessna I felt like I was looking at the dash of an AC 911.
For me personally, I think the 964 is the perfect compromise between new and old. It still looks like an old school 911 but has all of the modern bits that enthusiasts love on the 993. Aside from the rear suspension it is pretty much the same car as the 993 with an updated transmission and variable valve timing. I wish I would have gotten one as a companion vehicle when the pickings were ripe and no one else wanted one.
And finally to respond to the original post, actually the last 911 was in 1989. When the 964 came out it had approximately 60% new parts in it and the 993 increased the number even more so. So aside from the air cooling they are more different than similar.
The fact that you mention the interior while being smug is really funny. The 996 interior was supposed to go in the 993. It only didn't because Porsche didn't have the money. The 993 was supposed to get a new interior that would have looked about like the 996.
The facts are what they are. If you don't like them, too bad. If you don't believe them, go read the books. Its all out there.
well, if my aunt had *****, she'd be my uncle. Whether the 996 interior was sposed to end up in the 993 or not, it didn't end up that way, did it.
The facts are not necessarily what you, or some book, says they are.
I've spent plenty of time in both 993s and 996s, and only someone who is deaf, blind, or dumb would think the quality of materials in the 996 are better. Same story for the manner in which they are assembled.
look at all that high quality plastic around the shifter.
And the 993 suspension was supposed to be implemented in the 964. So what is your point?
There is no doubt the Porsche had to evolve in order to stay in business but to argue that Porsche remained "engineer first and business man second" after the 90s is ridiculous.
Ha ha ha... While I'm not a big fan of the "soft touch" finish and my car ('99 996) doesn't have a whole lot of it due to (mostly) full leather, my center console looks for all intents and purposes to be new. Yours is clearly beat to hell, but judging by the looks of it, that's either your fault or perhaps a previous owner - you can't really be blaming that type of damage on the finish itself can you?
My '99 C4 is an all weather vehicle with about 70k miles on it and I've never noticed any problem with the soft-touch interior parts. What is it that I'm supposed to be noticing?
Well, apparently the interior was manufactured by the same supplier as the IMS Bearing. So, if it hasn't yet, your interior is about to grenade. I'd immediately have it flatbedded to Jake for a full interior replacement with the LNE interior parts.
And, yes, I think I can smell the boobies a comin'. . .
So far everything is holding up just fine. Twelve years old, 43,000 miles. The miles are now going up much faster with me as the 4th owner. I do prefer the body and looks of the 993. But I was not impressed with the interior of the 993 or 964. And in both those models a lot of switches looked like after-thoughts and cheap ones at that.
At one point on the 993 forum I was looking for someone who might want to make a trade (my 996 for their 993) plus small amount of cash. I am not evaluating the car on the current market values but on the mechanical values regardless of price. Now after more than a few thousand miles in my 996, I would still consider a trade (if I liked the other car after driving it) but I'd be hard pressed to consider adding cash to the deal. Of course comments like this send the 993 owners into seizures and fits of rage.
I also find asthetics in the 997 and 991 interiors to be lacking. Particularly with the steering wheels and bright work in the interior...plus the big fat center console. But such is life. And if mine continues as it is, I'll be happy to still be driving my 996 ten years from now.
Porsche...I like them all...from the 930 Turbo to the 924, even the much maligned VW Porsche 914. I think they all have their redeeming qualities and they are all great in their own way.
If you think your Porsche is better than mine, good for you. If you can keep that to yourself, your Mother taught you well.
It was also supposed to have four wheel steering (only finally coming with the 991) and ... wait for it ... water cooling
Both also dropped due costs and the company trying to stay afloat.
As far as the interior, we have both full leather packages on ours. We got it the same time I had my XK8 so I always thought we got ripped off as the Germans obviously don't know what good leather is. Then I rode in a friends 996 with the standard interior and ours seems well worth the cost. I also took another friends 993 Targa out one day and while I have no idea if its interior was standard or had upgrades, it was definitely less than ours.
So I think the moral is, if you are buying a new or used 911 you should
always
hold out for the upgraded interior (unless you are tearing it out for a track rat of course).
wood cracking and flaking paint on ignition rosette
beautiful paint chipping on the trunk/engine cover release buttons
really, nothing says quality like this:
add to that the dozens of threads on interior plastic scratches, painted center consoles due to wear, etc.
This just in, when people treat their cars like ****, the cars look like ****.
I'm on my second 120K+ 996 and aside from the scratched frunk release (that's covered by the door when closed), I have none of those issues. My last car had the carbon interior and it WASN'T delaminating.
My 996 has 34K (01), garage queen until I got ahold of it. The burl trim has all either delaminated or has cracked in any stress area. That being said, the rest of the interior has held up very well.
My guess is you have never driven any of them much less owned one. Seriously, if there is a lower breed of troll than one to trolls car forums, I wouldn't know what it is.
If you don't like the car, don't buy one. I don't like Japanese cars. But I don't spend my time trolling the Z car forums, because I am not pathetic.
It will apparently come as news to some people on this forum, but Porsche was always a for profit corporation and was never a charity run by elves who lived in a tree near Stuttgart. It was always run by accountants. Its cars were never perfect. And it made a ton of money in the 1980s. It only hit the skids in the late 80s and early 90s because it spent a fortune developing the 964 and its production methods and product fell behind other companies. It wasn't that it couldn't make money. It was that it couldn't compete. There is a difference.
If you want to believe fairy tails, have fun. But some of us live in reality.
Normally the best thing to do with trolls is to ignore them. Mostly they want attention and depriving of that is like depriving them of oxygen. Once in a while, however, you get a breed of troll that if ignored will just take over and dominate a forum. That is close to what is happening on this board with people like quadcammer.
This board has a group of smug, nasty members who come here for the single purpose of slandering the 996 and everyone who owns one. It is wasn't so annoying, it would just be pathetic and sad. Unfortunately ignoring them hasn't worked. At some point, the only answer is to just beat them down and give them worse than they give. That way maybe they will move on and troll the 914 Board or the Cayman board or something.
I owned a 40th Anniversary (#590) and a 997.1 and really like water cooled cars. In fact, I am looking for a 996 as a DD. However, my first Porsche was a Turquoise Blue 993 C4S and it's the only Porsche I wish I still owned. I wish I still owned it not because of the rising values; but, because it was a phenomenal car. Sure the a/c sucked compared to a 996 and it had lots of the old 911 quirks. But, by gawd, you knew you were in a Porsche!
The doors closed with a sound that the newer cars cannot duplicate
The sounds of the engine cooling down after a run, the faint whiff of oil and the gurgle of oil in the oil lines after the car shut down was a mechanical delight
Who doesn't love floor hinged pedals?
Do you really prefer the 996 instrument panel over the classic 911?
And the curves...have you ever looked at the back of the 993 C4S?
I can tell that many of you have never driven. let alone owned, an air cooled Porsche. Try it...you might like it. The water cooled cars are superior in every quantitative measurement. However, qualitatively the air cooled cars are winning...and the market reflects that.
my reality includes a 993TT. I do lots of events with porsche guys, work on a variety of air and water cooled 911s, and have driven most of them to at least some degree. I even have 996 sport seats in my car.
I don't go out of my way to insult the 996. I think they are pretty decent cars really. When people start making ridiculous statements like 996s are built better than 993s, I just can't stand by. Furthermore, while the air cooled cars were far from perfect, they hardly ever have catastrophic issues and the interiors hold up extremely well. If you'd like to suggest that the water cooled engines are better than the air cooled, we can go another round.
oh wait, so trolling 914 or cayman owners is ok? seems you got your own heirarchy when it comes to porsches.
First and foremost this is a porsche discussion forum and low and behold, we are discussing porsches. I don't think any of the discussion has gotten particularly aggressive.
I like 996s. I just happen to find that the 993 is a more attractive, higher quality, and lower risk vehicle.
Bill I have driven them and had several close friends who owned them. They are perfectly fine cars. I don't think the AC cars are bad. I do, however think most of what the people who do like them say is nonsense. Door ping? You are kidding me? Ask yourself does any other group of car people in the world care about door ping? That is unique to Porsche is the goofiest thing in the entire automotive world.
More importantly, if you think ACs are great, good for you. They have an entire board dedicated to each generation of them. Why are you on here trolling? What do you care? I like my car better than a 993. It is faster, it is easier to drive, the air con works better, it is more modern and I can drive it as many miles as I want without worrying about depreciate because Porsche dorks haven't made it a collector car.
If you like the 993 better, great. Have fun with it. But I like mine. If you don't like that, go %$%^ yourself. Seriously, go preach the Gospel of door pings and oil smell to the believers. The rest of us don't care and would like our own forum about our cars.
My first Porsche was a 964. I loved that car. I've had my 951 for almost 4 years. I still marvel at how cool that car looks and it shifts like a dream. The 928 is the most recent addition - it's the Elvis of my collection: coolest car to ever tread the face of the Earth. But the 996 is my favorite of the bunch and I believe the best car I've ever owned (of about 100).
No none it is okay. I hope they call you the half wit you are. And sorry, but I am not buying you owned a 993 TT. I am just not. If you did, you would have better things to do, like have a job, then come on here.
If you don't own a 996, why are you posting on this forum? Take it elsewhere. You don't own the car so no one on here cares what you have to say. if you buy one, come back. Until you are just a troll and a particularly pathetic one at that.
How old are you, seriously? I didn't start this thread. I merely posted in it. And, it's apparent that you didn't read a thing I said about the water cooled cars being better in many ways. I guess you are in charge of the 996 forum now. Good for you! But, you need to come up out of the basement now...it's time for you to do your homework for school.
I remember the first time I got in a 911. It was 1984 and we were working at a guys house and he had a slant nose 911. He showed us the inside and I remember we talked about it later. We all thought it was a beautiful car but the inside seemed cheap and dated (and this was in the mid 80's).
Later in my life a friend bought a 911 - got a 993 when the 996's first came out. We took it for a ride and same thought.
The inside of the AC cars may be more durable but I can't really picture any normal person thinking the inside of the AC cars are nice.
not owned, still own. Don't particularly care if you believe it or not, its easy enough to prove.
I didn't realize there was a requirement that you can only post in a forum if you own the car. Perhaps I enjoy learning about all porsches, including ones I don't particularly like such as 928s or 924s.
The 993 is a relic of early 1960's design language - a bit bloated but still clearly bearing the 901 DNA. It struggles to remain useful in 2015, and trundles along obstinately in spite of its (on-paper) obsolescence. The automobile version of Dan V.
I was shopping for a Porsche and drove several 996's, but ended up buying a 964. I had an immediate emotional attachment to the 964 (maybe because they came out when I was 4, and ended production when I was 10, so prime Hot Wheels times for me), and despite what EVERYONE said (it's a mechanical and electrical nightmare, engine rebuild is gonna cost 18K, overfill the oil and your car will be dead, etc), I ended up buying it.
Truth be told, it was mostly because the 996 just seemed flat to me both from a driving and visual perspective. I wasn't going to win any races in a 14 year old 911, so 0-60 and top speed metrics weren't important. I'm one of the camp that doesn't really care for the smell of oil or the door clank - btw, my uncle's old Merc had the same sound closing and is definitely a memory, just like trying to get on a highway in a 30 year old diesel - but the 996 interior/exterior just didn't do it for me.
I also drove a member on here's beautiful 996, very well maintained in perfect cosmetic condition. I still ended up buying a broke-*** 964 with a non-function convertible top, and couldn't be happier.
We had a Buick Electra in the early 80's that featured, in addition to burgundy leather, an AWESOME thud when you shut the door. If I'd only realized that this was the true measure of a car, I would have found a way to store it for 30 years so I could enjoy it today...
"also drove a member on here's beautiful 996, very well maintained in perfect cosmetic condition. I still ended up buying a broke-*** 964 with a non-function convertible top, and couldn't be happier."
^with all due respect^... You sir are an... Ah, never mind
Point is, different strokes for different folks.
Also the door thud is really interesting. I've never thought about it, but when someone here mentioned it, I instantly thought about that early 80's Mercedes. Must be something primal about a resounding thud when you close a door.
Clearly you don't subscribe to "Door Thud Monthly"...the magazine for us door thud aficionados. I think they are published by the same people who publish your favorite magazine, "Big Wheels and Signature Blocks 'R Us"
If it weren't for the marginal ventilation system I would have chosen the 964 over my 996 as well. I use my car as a daily driver so I need working A/C.
The one I test drove had me grinning for hours afterwards. Sure the 996 is a better car for me right now but the 964 pulled all the right strings on the emotional front.
Have fun with your ride!
I, for one, am enjoying the contributions of billh1963 to the 996 forum.
I am pretty sure that the 97 Miata does not fare well in the door thud olympics.
Never had climate control issues with a 964 or 993, even in July Georgia heat... That's mid to high 90s all the time and maybe low 100s with 90% humidity.
My 88 Carrera also has good AC with an additional condenser added in the fender well and some updated components.
But even if it didn't, I'd still love it just the same. To me a Porsche is a simple machine, little to break and no creature comforts. If I want creature comforts, I have a 500E.
It's all in fun. Im just happy to get to enjoy a Porsche....be it water cooled or air cooled. If your car brings a smile to your face then you automatically win
quad, buddy HOW can you NOT have your 993 TT as your Avatar? Man, i'd have it on there as BIG as i could get it! By the way, if you've got a 993 TT you Shouldn't even be seen or heard in here with All us Lil' Minions!
quad, you see my signature i'm REALLY wanting to get IN with the IN Crowd! is there Anyway you can maybe pull some strings & help me get IN! Man, IF i EVER got a 993 TT i Don't think i'd EVER come back in the 996 forum! you can pm me if you want to! Thanks!
Introduced myself to a woman in her late fifties/early sixties driving a 96 993. She did a great U turn and wheeled into a parking space with great skill and in one pass. I told her it is obviously she likes driving her car. She smiled...said she is the original owner and will never sell it. That wasn't elitism, that was just someone loving their Porsche. All the spitting and pissing back and forth in this thread really doesn't do justice to any of our cars.
On the other hand...I was reading the 991 forum...and a thread about automated rev matching on the MT had me shaking my head. I felt that the 991 is more amusement park ride than flesh and blood sports car. I now know there is nothing for me in that car. Same with the PDK...it is too fragile to be worth it.
Some would say hanging an engine behind the rear wheels was the worst idea ever... But most of us would disagree.
But of course Jalopnick is the paradigm of automotive journalism. Not.
911's are cool no matter what year, style, color, etc. I think it's good to have a healthy rivalry in anything. It means there are emotions attached, and let's face it if we weren't emotionally involved with the cars and their stigma before purchase then we never would have bought one. I think the flip side and this is just my opinion is that the majority of the elite type attitude comes from older porsche owners who are upset that late model 911,s can be bought by middle class and not just the upper class have them. Honestly who gives a Shyte. I love everything 911 and love that these cars are as special as the day they rolled of the assembly line. These cars are bought and sold and each time they are, a new owner pays for the same pleasure that the guy before him did etc.
I had a 1991 944 S2 before my 996 and the A/C on that started giving me some issues. It was hell during the summers here in NC when I'd be wearing a suit and the stupid thing wouldn't cool me down. I had it checked numerous times but since it had been converted to r143a it just never worked that great. My concern was that a 911 of that same vintage would be subject to the same issues.
I'd have to disagree, that's just silly. I think it's pretty cool to see some guy jump out of a 911 (any year) wearing ragged shorts, greased stained shirt and flip-flops, whether he's picking up a can of paint or a latte.
I guess I could be part of the 'older' Porsche owners - been lusting after them since the '70s and bought my first one about a dozen years ago.
I've never, not once, had an aircooled Porsche owner sell the car when it needed an engine. With the more modern cars I have it happen 15-20 times per year.
The wheels were on the car when I bought it. I didn't think it would matter much, but I have noticed some behavioral changes, including a penchant for hip-hop and an uncontrollable urge to install a chain steering wheel.
As soon as my disability check arrives, Ima upgrade to these wheels. Any idea if I'll need to roll the fenders?
Thanks for the compliments. Not big on avatars and my car is pretty stock looking from the outside.
If you can give me some information about what kind of car you're looking for (color, price, miles, etc), I can keep an eye out.
Here are some pics of mine...you know, to be elitist.
It doesn't hurt that used air cooled engines are relatively plentiful if one needs a replacement. I recall about six or seven years ago I priced a 1980s air cooled engine for a 911SC -
new from Porsche
. They weren't cheap but they were available, 25+ years
after
the car went out of production.
This is a crazy thread. The winter months often bring out the best in us.
It is a privilege to own any part of the 911 evolution. Massive respect for any model.
He who claims to be an aircooled supremacist and doesn't own a tub welded before summer 68' makes a fool of himself
This is a series A SWB 911L. I love her. I love my 997 GT3 RS. I love my newly bought Boxster (track toy bought to replace my poor 996 destroyed at Spa last year). I drive my wife's Macan whenever I can
OK, slightly off topic. I go back working on my Boxster (cyl#2 D-chunked, sent to LN for resleeving).
Enjoy your cars guys, that's what they're made for.
Lots of things have changed with that over the years. With the aircooled cars being more valuable, the engines have gone away to an extent.
The cheapest aircooled engine I build costs more than my most expensive M96, but no one complains about that :-)
You all know that the tractors came before the 356 right? So even the revered 356 isn't a "real" Porsche as it was just pandering to the masses that wanted a more comfortable on-road ride!
I am so very grateful for air-cooled elitism. If it weren't for the air-cooled snobbery and hatred of 996 headlights, I likely would not have been able to rationalize buying my 996 Turbo. But when I realized how far these cars had depreciated, I just had to buy one. I was able to join the Porsche fraternity with a beautiful low-miles supercar that does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, all for only about $40,000. It's just an amazing value. And it's all thanks to the many Porsche "experts" who, for reasons I can't understand, seemingly consider the 996 comparable to a Pontiac Aztek or AMC Gremlin.
So really the air-cooled elitism is great for everyone! I get my hot Porsche 911 Turbo for a bargain-basement price, and snobs who condescend to 996 owners get to enjoy the warm, smug feeling that they have better taste than the 996 owners! It's a win-win situation--something we can all feel good about.
