996 vs 997.1 Opinions

Hey guys- I realize this is a 996 forum but I figured you guys would have the best knowledge. Lets take looks out of the equation for a moment (lights, etc). I had narrowed my search down to a 996 C4S and then I started noticing the 2005/2006 997.1 base model and even the 997 S's were within my price range. However, after reading about the potential bore scoring on 2005/2006 models I have some q's. I have done a lot of research but would like to see what you think: 1) Are you better off with a 2003/2004 C4S that has the IMS/RMS fix? vs a 997.1 2005 or 2006 bc of the bore scoring issue? 2) I also noticed it is cost prohibitive to change the IMS in a 2006 but you can in a 2005 for the typical price of doing it in a 996? 3) Seems like the 3.6 engine 997 may not have as much potential to have bore scoring as the S model with the 3.8? If I went 997 I would prefer the S. Seems like this keeps bringing me back to the 996 bc of price unless you have the cash to go to the 997.2? Keep in mind this is my first porsche. Thanks- Tony

Quotes source post: 11875807

Tony as a current 996 owner as much as I love my car I would recommend the 997 carrera s. If I could afford it that's the car I would own. The overall package is quite significant over a 996

If this is going to be a daily driver, the standard advice is buy the newest Porsche you can afford. It's also worthwhile to consider the purpose of the car. Dream forever car ? Or a daily fun toy. I did not follow that advice recently however. I own a 03 C4 S as a DD and chose it over. 997.1 because I liked the more manual raw feel of it. I also got a deal that made too much $ advantage to pass up. If you have a cash reserves and don't fear the internet hype you can smartly buy, preventative fix and enjoy the hell out of a 996. I wanted a more DIY car and just could not pass up the *** end of my C4S.

Thanks for the replies. I do like like that C4S backside as well

I like the look of the 996C4S over the 997C2. Interior is better on the 997, but a c4s is likely optioned better for nicer interior materials than a base 997. 997C2S is probably the fastest. The cars are so similar that it's up to you. Go drive them and see what you like best.

Thanks White out. I have driven a 996 C2 and C4S. Will be test driving a 997 C2 tomorrow.

In the words of the great Bruce Anderson... "Buy the best, newest Porsche you can afford."

Quotes source post: 11876244

Thanks. I hear what you are saying but I think it is a little bit of a quandary in that I can afford the 996 or 997.1. Challenge becomes the trade offs with bore scoring vs fixing the IMS, etc. Sounds like no preventative fix for bore scoring except the theories behind it happens more frequently in the colder states. If I could afford a 997.2 or higher - I would agree with your point.

Can you afford a turbo?

And then if you are considering 997s...why not 993s. The C2 993 has hips as nice as the 996 and 997 4S...and doesn't have IMS horror stories. My problems with the 997 are the interior and the lack of a true spare tire. I hate touchscreens...and I hate not having a spare tire. A cheap can of glue and air is what I would expect on a Yugo or Nano. I also think the 993 and 997 offer very similar driving experiences. The 997 is bigger...more like a Camero...the 993 is more classic in 911 size. As for horsepower difference it is all rather silly. Is any one in their right mind going to try the top speed of either car on public roads. Even 0 to 60 times are rather academic...both cars will give you more than enough performance. As for the 996...if you fear the IMS issue it is a relatively cheap fix to drop in another bearing and stop worrying. Or you can roll the dice with the other 90% to 96% of the 996 owners who haven't had a problem. It definitely is the bargain performance buy in the market place.

Quotes source post: 11875807

I don't think you can or should take looks out of the equation because you're not just buying utilitarian transportation. If you really prefer the looks of one to the other and buy the opposite one, part of the enjoyment is lost IMO. I haven't heard of bore scoring in 2005's, and all the 2006's I've heard of were 3.8's. I don't own a Porsche shop though, so Idk for sure at all. Yes to #2 but be aware that the replaceable IMSB was only used in early 2005's. I'm not sure if the serial #'s in the class action suit are 100% reliable in telling what kind of IMSB is in a particular '05. And some of them have had their engines replaced with the later style. So not every '05 you see will have the replaceable bearing. In fact, neither will every 996, as many of them have had their engines replaced also, and if it was done in 2005 or later, might also have the non replaceable bearing. Remanufactured engines have a code in the serial#.

Thanks for the replies guys. Good points. I will be test driving my first 997 tomorrow so hopefully I can narrow down what style I am leaning towards.

If you're worry about the IMS get the 997.2

$15000 price difference for a little more HP and a bit updated interior? No, thank you. If I switch over it would be for 997.2

When I bought mine I had a $50k budget so I shopped both a 996.2 and a 997.1 I liked the lightness / pwr to weight ratio of the 996.2 I liked the full leather interior and then realized I could spend the $5K difference in price on customized mods and a warranty on the 996.2 That was many years ago and I daily drive my car everyday and I absolutely love it. If you think about it - truly think about it - it is an amazing automobile

Very good point. Thanks. Curious when people say they had the IMS upgraded at a Porsche dealer - is that upgrade as good as LN Engineering? This was the email exchange I got when I asked why the bearing was replaced. Seems like I would want to stay away or not? "Was replaced by Brumos Porsche and has the Porsche upgrade with the larger bearing. Left it there for a oil leak and a cat converter rattling. The IMS was leaking and getting loose. Engine was fine and upgraded. Was checked recently for a small oil leak and needed a new IMS cover and all was fine. New clutch and flywheel installed." This is a C4s for $31k

Quotes source post: 11876244

That is a one size fits all generic statement that gets thrown around all the time here and in the corvette forums and probably others too. I do not subscribe to this sentiment when it comes to highly personal decisions such as which performance car of a certain marque to buy. The newest you can afford is just not always the right answer. Never has been for me. FWIW and no offense meant.

You'll get a great driving experience with a 996, just like you will with a 997. The Porsche DNA is there in both cars... I've always said that I would take a 996 C4S over a base 997 C4 or C4. I still believe that. However, if I could get into a 997 C2S or C4S, then I have to say that I would probably take the 997. The 997 is not bigger than the 996. The size is almost identical, within fractions of an inch. The 997 drives very much like the 996. The biggest differences that I noticed in drivability when I went to the 997 were ride quality and interior space. The 997 is designed such that the seat mounting points are lower, giving you more head room in the cabin. The driver's side footwell is farther back also, allowing the pedals to be placed further back and making it easier for taller drivers to get comfortable. The 997 feels bigger, but it's not. I think you should drive both and make up your mind. You'll know when you drive them...

If you're looking at low $30's, spend a few $$ more and get into the mid-upper $30's for a turbo. No IMS issues, more power than 997S, likely to hold its value better, etc.

If you can pop for a 997.2, I'd go that route. Otherwise, as mentioned above, go for the newest car you can get. So, that would mean choose a 997.1 over a 996 if it's in the budget. I have seen very few posts (if any) about bore scoring problems. I am aware that it exists, but I think it's a very rare issue that I personally would not worry about.

Awesome. Thanks guys! Gotta love rennlist. I have not been in a 997.1 yet so it will be interesting to see today. I am 6 '3" so any head room is good. Good to hear that the bore scoring is rare. I do like the S as well. Thanks for the tip on the turbo. Leaning more towards N/A engines. I also want to keep my budget down to low 30s which puts me out of the market for a clean turbo at that price.

I think you would have to be nuts not to buy a 996 turbo these days, even if you had to stretch that dollar. Look at every other year of turbo, they are all over $100k. The 996 will be too. It wasn't but a few years ago 964s were the $20k Porsche and early 930's were $30k. Try and find one like that now. I think turbos will escalate more quickly because they do not have the IMS issue and, they are turbo's... If I had the jack, I would buy ten of them and double my money on every one.

A 997 on the low 30's forget about the 997.2 I don't know where you live but here in SoFla 38 and up, with 40000 miles or more for an 05

Bore scoring is far more rare of an issue than the IMS. It wouldn't even factor into my decision process. I've owned 5 996s, 1 997.1, and 1 997.1S (current). They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I will not make the blanket statement that I prefer the 997 over the 996. The most important thing in any Porsche is that you buy one that is in excellent condition that has been well maintained. Your low-$30k price range really prices you out of a nice 997S, 997.2, or 996TT, I would focus your search on the 996.2, 40th AE, C4S, and 997.1. As for those, I would really recommend driving each because they all have their own unique character.

I owned a 996, drove my friend's 997.1 for a week and now own a 997.2. There is a big difference between the 3 cars, and it's not just the looks. Drive em all and then decide which one is worth your money.

Quotes source post: 11876548

Agreed, I wouldn't go the 997.1 route. It's very similar to the 996, but much more money. Also, you can't easily replace IMSB in that model - if that kind of thing worries you. 997.2 is different enough that if you can afford it, seems like a good route to go. I would only go 996 Turbo if you plan on tracking the car. For the street, a Carrera is plenty.

Awesome replies!! Thank you!

I don't believe in the theory of buying the newest Porsche you can afford... I've owned a 2012 C2S (991) and it was the most unreliable car I've ever owned; in 13 mos. of ownership, it was at the dealer for 5 different failures (worst was PDK replacement) and a total of 1.5 mos... I used it as a DD, I babied it, it had SPASM and so low that I scrapped the front bumper all time (very annoying), careful where I parked and also very cautious on the freeway, and numerous interior rattles. I didn't enjoy it to it's potential. It was a love/hate (failures) relationship. I then sold it and bought a 335i for a DD and couldn't be happier and very reliable. I lasted about a month and a half, then purchased a 2000 C2 (weekend car). It has been great and I'm enjoying it so much more; I don't care where I park, never scrap, drive it like I stole it. It was a bargain at $16k and 74k miles and in awesome condition. I prefer not having NAV, it's small size (fun to drive and easy to park), manual gears (even though PDK is awesome). I still think the front lights are ugly, but I can't see them while I'm driving it. It's a blast, and I can't drive it enough... So, my advice is to buy the one you like the most, you'll feel most comfortable with, can afford, and most mechanically sound, so you can really enjoy the car and be happy with your purchase.

More great advice! Thx!

I'm do agree with the possible consideration of a 996 turbo. It's a fantastic bargain right now. They are well-equipped from the factory and they offer excellent performance. The turbo features the Mezger engine, which is considered very reliable and has extensive use (and wins!) in Porsche motor sports. The 997.2 turbos switched to a new engine design in 2010 and the current turbos aren't available with a manual transmission. The 996 turbo represents an opportunity to buy a 6-speed manual car with a Mezger engine at a great price. It's hard to beat that...

Quotes source post: 11876638

Sounds to me like the engine was replaced. Brumos is a Porsche dealer. The only "Porsce upgrade" is a new engine. The LN is not a larger bearing. Appears the owner is confused.

Thanks again for all the replies guys. Saw and drove the below 997 this afternoon. Very sharp and clean car. However - no maintenance records - dealer bought it at a wholesaler. Drove great and it is nice inside vs a 996. Decisions.....Decisions...... http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/4801811602.html Carfax: http://www.carfax.com/viewEmailRepor...ne&language=EN

Quotes source post: 11878544

Small world, I watched that car go through auction last week. Just my approach, but when I buy a Porsche without service records I do everything that should have been done. That way you KNOW it was done. On that car it would be the combined 40k and 60k service.

Quotes source post: 11879193

Matt - what are the odds that I would send you a PM yesterday and today you noticed that is the car you have seen before. That is crazy. Very small world. I will call ya today at some point. Appreciate the time in advance

Quotes source post: 11877027

Since Cuda chimed in... Are there any reports of 997.1 engines breaking rod bolts? Did they make changes in the engine in that area? Sorry for your troubles, Cuda...

Quotes source post: 11880092

Heard of a 997.2 throwing a rod at a local DE event.

Quotes source post: 11880130

I was wondering if the 997.2 was also suffering with that problem. Jeez...

Well, for sure, any car can throw a rod at a DE. It's not like that's happening on any sort of a routine basis for 997.2's, at least as far as I have seen. I would just chalk that up to being one of many potential modes of failure that could strike any specific motor, especially one being driven extremely hard like at a DE.