38 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWhat kind of PPI did you have done???
Reported or suspected cause
curiosity, an oil change and a scope laying around
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
The only way we found out is due to curiosity, an oil change and a scope laying around.
Leading evidence: 'curiosity, an oil change and a scope laying around' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'curiosity, an oil change and a scope laying around' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check bore scoring was warranted' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
They checked the oil and filter but did not drop the sump.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Tires were first, then had front/rear bumpers painted for rock chips, replaced seats with newer ones, replaced radio and wing rubber, replaced headliner, but have done Nothing to the drive-train.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Due to the history or seller, there were other cars I looked at that I would have insisted on dropping the sump and at least checking cylinders 5 and 6 for bore scoring had it gotten that far.
Recommend service intervals completed and extensive service history
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
My car had complete recommended service intervals completed and extensive service history from new at Porsche Dealership, right down to tires and wiper blades.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Tires were first, then had front/rear bumpers painted for rock chips, replaced seats with newer ones, replaced radio and wing rubber, replaced headliner, but have done Nothing to the drive-train.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
The UPDATE is that the tech that refused (kinda) to do the things that I wanted done, followed his nose and his senses and replaced a Made in China MAF sensor with an OEM MAF and the 5 codes all disappeared, the car runs like it should, and life is GOOD!!
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
38 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Found heater element in driver's seat and ligther didn't work.
My current car was bought on eBay and didn't get any PPI; I just like the car, liked the price, and that was that. Having had several 911s before, my opinion is that they are about as bullet-proof as one can hope for. Since joining this forum, I've learned that we have several things that might cause us to stop grinning about our cars, so I wonder about our PPI policies.
even worse, I'm the 7th owner in 63K miles, but the price for that kind of car sold me.
I posted on your other thread so i figured i would vote here. The reason i couldnt suggest a ppi list is because i bought my car as in-op and from a few pics online. I had planed on motor swap but got it running for $150 and now im just enjoying it. If i were gonna buy a quality 996 i would budget $7-1k for a ppi.
I have something that is not on the list. The guy that works on my cars actually meets me at the sellers place and does a ppi real time... We bring durametric and some other tools...i just pay his hourly rate and make a decision right there. He works on just about every kind of porsche including cup cars....he can small a problem. Saved me many times.
I was out of state when I purchased my 996 and did not have the time for a PP!. After driving the car and visually inspecting, I bought the car for a good price and drove the 1500 miles home. Immediately did the clutch, RMS, IMS. I was the 3rd owner (one was for just two weeks) so I thought the car was a good bet. That has proven to be true!
Do you do this as an individual or do you work as a shop? I ask as I'm very much of a similar mindset as I tend to really research any car I buy but I'm curious how you present this to the seller, especially if the PPI is invasive. Do you perform the PPI on sellers property or do you take it somewhere?
Bought my 2000 C4 Cab a year and a couple months ago w/o a PPI.
No problems yet but I have the money to fix it if need be or take a loss on it if I don't.
I voted for the middle option. I had a PPI done but also had the filter cut open and oil changed for inspection. If I knew what I knew now I probably would have paid more to have the bores scoped.
I had a basic PPI because my car came with an IMS Solution and a less than 1000 mile completely rebuilt engine (with nickies). Even with the basic PPI, both the mechanic and I missed a cracked rear rim. No big deal considering I basically bought the whole car for less than some engine rebuilds.
My car had complete recommended service intervals completed and extensive service history from new at Porsche Dealership, right down to tires and wiper blades.
I still had a PPI, done at Porsche Dealership.
Found heater element in driver's seat and ligther didn't work.
Both were repaired by selling dealer.
Had a basic PPI by a recommended independent shop.
The car was being sold at a Porsche dealership a little over 300 miles away.
I�m pretty sure buying a 21 year old car is a roll of the dice even with the most invasive PPI.
I had a"basic plus" PPI done on mine at a Porsche specialist. First 911. The car had an LN IMSB put in about 3 years/5K miles ago. The guy doing the PPI daily drives a '99 and didn't think checking for bore scoring was warranted. I was fine with that since there was no ticking or tailpipe soot and the car had spent its whole life in warm weather. They checked the oil and filter but did not drop the sump.
Due to the history or seller, there were other cars I looked at that I would have insisted on dropping the sump and at least checking cylinders 5 and 6 for bore scoring had it gotten that far.
In my case, ignorance was bliss, but I wouldn't recommend it. I bought mine with no PPI from a friend of my sister-in-law over ten years ago. I've done lots of preventative maintenance over the years but the only thing that broke in that time was the driver's door latch. The original owner was an enthusiast and had the car meticulously serviced by a Porsche Dealer. If I were to do it over again I would definitely get an invasive PPI.
Basic PPI at Independent Porsche shop. Had no idea anything beyond that existed.
Still unsure if the report I got was even for my car. They missed a staggering amount of easy stuff. Even had things listed as issues when they were in fact, fine.
Mine was cheap. I liked it. IMS had been done. Tailpipes didn't show signs of bad bore scoring. So I bought it. I took it to a nearby Euro shop for an inspection. They got confused and thought I meant PPI. They took one look and said I should walk away because there was corrosion on the door striker, which they said indicated a collision. I opened up the panel. No collision. No signs of body work anywhere. They found some leaks, but nothing that I can't live with on a cheap old car.
I'm glad I didn't have a PPI done, as I might have walked away from a great deal!
Paul
The guy that I asked to do a full-blown invasive PPI refused............ I met with him this morning and he said that spending $2500 on a PPI was the same as spending $2500 on a physical....there is no way to know or guarantee that a stroke or cancer isn't just a day away from happening, so why spend the money? Dang, hard to argue with a guy that won't take my money because he knows that I'm not sure what to do, and he is.
OK, he's going to run some tests that he thinks are right for THIS car, and we'll go from there.
I can see his point but your still more likely to catch something if you go to the doctor than not at all right? You would rather catch cancer early than later. The real issue is the bore scoring, if you find it you've saved yourself a lot of money. If you are okay with potentially spending more than the car is worth on a rebuild at some point than it isn't an issue.
Basic PPI. Mechanic found some stuff that helped me negotiate the price down, but nothing serious. I didn't know about IMSB nor scored cylinders because first Porsche and didn't do enough research. That was in 2014. Got through without the IMSB biting but scored cylinders got me by 2019. It's all good now!
Despite the "warnings," 36 of the 60 people (over 1/2 at 56%) of the people who answers the poll NEVER had a PPI done. So, I guess most of us are just "risk takers." LOL!
Interesting followup questions for everyone who answered (whether they got a PPI or not) would be what "unknown" problems followed the purchase, how serious were the problems and how much did they cost to fix.
There always remains the option to get the bore test done my my local mechanic rather than by the one that is near the dealer. At this point we want the car's air and vacuum leaks detected and rectified, and then get the car down to the beach and drive it awhile; enough that an oil analysis will make some sense. If the driving shows that the car is sound enough to keep for 5 years, then my wrench can do a bore inspection and we can hope that all will be well, but a second opinion from him will be the key, because he does all the way to GT3s, so I trust his shop and his judgement. He's booked solid until January, though, or I might have driven the car down here.
The car is THAT CLEAN and priced THAT LOW, that I'd buy it and cross my fingers rather than let it go for being a scardy cat. Fingers crossed.
Excellent question, and you should post that poll.
I bought my 996 off of eBay Motors and paid a little over $14,000, so a steal for a car that was bought sight unseen. Drove it 600 miles home and the next morning noticed that the tires that seller said had several thousand miles on them....were 10 years old and low on air. Lucky that nothing happened. Tires were first, then had front/rear bumpers painted for rock chips, replaced seats with newer ones, replaced radio and wing rubber, replaced headliner, but have done Nothing to the drive-train. Mechanic has seen the car once, to fix some wiring from the radio install, replace seat belt buckle, and to fix an A/C leak. All in all I have about $20K into the car now, and almost all to make it look proper.
This is true. Bore scoring is just one of those things that there is no easy solution for, the IMS is relatively easy to take care of. I genuinely enjoy owning my 911 but would I have bought it if I knew I could spend 20k+ on an engine rebuild? I dunno. I suppose there is always the possibility of any car having catastrophic failure it just seems higher on the M96.
This is very true and suppose some of us are the kind that wants to be well educated about the purchase and be aware of all potential issues, with the down side of it being that you become so paranoid over the 30-some modes of failure that it really spoils your ownership experience. I'm walking that line myself.
175,262 996's were produced during the production run. I sometimes wonder what the ownership experience split is like for the "enjoyed the P-car ownership experience" vs "paranoid because if it's not an IMS then it's bore scoring".
Well, pipte84, the '99 has been totally enjoyable and most of my money has gone into cosmetic things. The new '03 is being tested as we speak, so I may change my tune a bit, but driving them is far better than a Sequoia or F150.
The UPDATE is that the tech that refused (kinda) to do the things that I wanted done, followed his nose and his senses and replaced a Made in China MAF sensor with an OEM MAF and the 5 codes all disappeared, the car runs like it should, and life is GOOD!! Without taking it for a PPI, the car wouldn't have run well enough to drive, so i was kind of forced to do it, but then the tech followed his nose and the bill came to less than $1,000, and that made this one of the best car buys ever.
I only got a very basic PPI done at a general (not Porsche specialist) garage local to the car. They didn't even notice the front tyres were the factory originals!
I didn't even view the car myself before buying it, and it didn't come with much service history either. So I pretty much did everything wrong... but I loved the spec and the asking price left some change for tidy ups. Three years later I still love the car and I've had no major problems, but I do feel like I got lucky and next time I would be more diligent.
That's for sure! The only gotcha is that one is $2k fix while the other is a $20k fix. What's more frustrating/disappointing/annoying (call it whatever you want) is that those two issues are due to the OEM design / material choice. I've said this before and I'm not holding my breath but I'm curious if and where this will lead as more people develop bore scoring, especially in lower mileage cars. We already had an IMS lawsuit...
Heck, I'm of the mindset that pretty much we all have it - just some people don't know or haven't developed any symptoms yet. I've seen cars with 0 oil consumption, no ticking, no sooty tail pipes, no CEL, daily driven and occasionally tracked have advanced scoring. The only way we found out is due to curiosity, an oil change and a scope laying around.
bought a 26k mile car with a clean Carfax - - and a history of living in a warm, dry climate
no funny noises, only a very slightly tweaked front wheel
still problem free 6 1/2 years later
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