Why the hate...?

Hi all I'm a brand new Porker owner. I picked up a very well maintained, 2 x 50 + year old owners (and now a 3rd) 996 C2 Mk1. It has 108km's on the dial and the car has had a total rebuild with new pistons, valves, conrods, all bearings - IMS included, re-sleeved with nikasil sleeves and it had the capacity increased to a 3.6L, about 3 years/20k, km's ago. It also has a nice header/extractor exhaust system and a CAI. The car is very tight and it goes very, very well. This has been my dream car for many years, and its a funny thing when one realises one's dream/s. Sorta like waking up with Scarlet Johhanson sleeping next to you - a did I or didn't I kind of feeling... Its kind of surreal at first, but, you couldn't punch the grin off my face right now - for the time being anyways! But, I'm somewhat dismayed at the relentless dissing of the 996. Why is that? I just don't get it... I like 'em all, sure, some models more than others, but I sure don't hate any of them... Just curious! Rgd's Timlin

Well Tim I am in the same group as you. Great big grin all the time. These cars are great, not is it a lot of car for the money. they are just dang nice cars.

Ricky Nelson had a hit in the 60's, called Garden Party. The "signature" line in the song is: "see you can't please everyone so you just gotta please yourself"

Maybe because the average Joe can buy one?

Me 4 I believe the applicable term for the attitude of the haters is IGNORANCE!

New Porker? I thought you were telling us that you bought a Cayenne! Congrats on the 996 purchase. I think they are great cars. I like all Porsches.

Just rise above it. Just smile and nod with the knowledge that you are part of the group of people smart enough to buy the Porsche that is the deal of the century. Enjoy!

Part of the dissing is external, even more annoying is the crap we get from the aircooled old gits, who have very short memories of some of the issues their "real Porsches� suffered in the day, wasn�t too long ago 964 RS cars were sub $30k, not they are $100+, and a bog standard C2 964 was the runt of the litter, now they are deemed very desirable. One thing I just don�t get is the 993, I understand it was the last aircooled car, but I just don�t like the look of it, personally I prefer the 964 and even the gen2 996. Back to your comment, look at most cars and bikes (outside true exotics), they are desirable when new, have some issues and drop in value, no one wants them as they are neither retro or modern, crap cars die off, then start to become desirable again, all to a great or lesser degree. Look at all the Porsche enthusiast mags right now, every month there is a 996 article with both modded and standard cars, with the takeaway that they are terrific cars, mold breakers when launched, better that the 993 they replaced. And now if maintained and looked after are bargains that have probably hit the bottom of the depreciation curve. They wont go up in value at the air-cooled or even GT3 rates, but they are a great cars that I truly hope will start getting some love.

It's interesting that many of the Porsches that were "oddballs" or the "stepchild" are now desirable. Values are rising for the 912, 914, 964, etc. I read a great article in Panorama a few years ago about the 924 S and a special stripped down edition for the US that's suddenly rising in value. Personally, I buy cars for my own personal enjoyment. I don't buy them to impress anybody or as an investment. I loved my 996 C4S.

I think people have to remember that these cars were 70k+ when new (mine was closer to low 80k) and people were disappointed with the "quality" of the interior finishes more than anything. I will say the interior is the same quality as the 2010 Cooper S we bought new for $26,000.. The porsche cost 3 times that.. BUT that being said, I didn't buy they porsche new.. 996s can be had for low 20's and well under and that makes the "Cooper" interior a moot point to me. They are a great value. And sheeple complain about the headlights blah blah, they look good Imo. The more I look at 993s the less I appreciate the body gaps, half modern bumpers/ headlights with dated interior. Haters hate on.. 996s are very cool despite thier bargain prices..

Non- owner comments are as useful as sock lint- I've yet to meet a former 996 owner that was unhappy when they had theirs...

Don't see or hear of many haters but we sure seem to have a lot of whiners. I don't know what people expect when they purchase a 11-15 year old car at 1/4th its original price. For me, I did some reading here and learned a bit but my purchase was at a time where the hysteria really didn't exist. I was able to buy a 4S with 38K miles for $34,000. I thought that was incredible and most people who are not obsessed with pcars are amazed that 996s can be bought so low. BUT, as we know maintenance and repairs are quite expensive if you cannot wrench yourself. I also have nickies in my car and I was the guy who paid for it after a failure. not xxx but valve seat issue. Anyways, enjoy your new car and don't let the negative comments worry you. Oh and its is customary for new members to post pictures so get with it!

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I paid 26.5k for mine with 55k on it in 1995. It now has 115k on the clock & still makes me smile.....

I would hope that my input is worth more than sock lint... I owned a 996 for a long time...

people used to hate the 70s 2.7s and the 964s as well - and look where those prices are now.

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THIS

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Pre-production model?

Non-996-owner opinions about your 996 are about as relevant as **** on a bull. Enjoy the car, and enjoy knowing that you got a smoking deal on it.

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LOL My bad, it was 2005. Doooooooooooooooh!

Just keep telling people your 996 is a piece of crap. No sense sharing secrets with people that prefer to remain ignorant. I sold my first one. Had regrets almost immediately, so bought another one two years later. I've driven a couple of 993's, and honestly, I'll take a 996 as my dual purpose car over the 993 any day of the week.

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Exactly. My 996 handled better than my 3TT. Granted it had a mix of aftermarket suspension and GT3 bits.

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Rick Nelson had a hit in 1972, titled Garden Party where "no one recognized me, I didn't look the same. My cousin played drums for him & plays great now.

It's just what some people do. They dissed the 911 when it came out, dissed the impact bumpers, dissed the 964, dissed the 924/944 series, dissed the 914, etc, etc. I think at some point the 996 will come into it's own, the bad ones will fall out and the good ones will rise. The 996 is, after all, the last analog 911.

i do however wish there was more focus on what great drivers cars they are vs "I got a great deal" or "I got it so cheap"

VA951, great point +996 PS awesome Vale pic, he has a good testing session in Sepang but will still be tough to challenge Marquez

I've had the fabled "air-cooled" machines in the past. They were fine, but technology has passed onwards. I wouldn't trade my '99 911 for two 2.7 litre cars, I don't care what they're "worth".

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all 356/911/996 porsches are great cars - aircooled and water cooled just like music - different strokes for different folks - imagine if i dissed country music? i'd have every uneducated 944 owner on RL boring me a new ahole **the 993 is a great car and in my opinion one of the best air cooled designs but those 993 owners(i owned 2) have serious issues to deal with called blocked air passages in the heads which leads to CEL light and fix is a complete head rebuild for $5000

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I was thinking - a 1995 996!! That's got to be really rare!!!

In the 3 years I owned my 996, I never once heard anything but positive comments about my car. And this is in a town were 997's and 991's are a dime a dozen. Maybe it just blended in, headlights and all...

**** the haters, enjoy the car. I personally can't wait for the spring to set in and get going (salty road issue) cheers

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Been hitting the 70s here every day this week so far, driven my car to work every day......

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yours especially since you are a former 996 owner that was happy with the experience .

Very happy! My 996 C4S was one of my favorite cars of all time!

Hi all Thanks for the feedback! There's some great quotes here! Sock lint... Love it!! Its not that I give a **** about the haters, in fact I find it mildly amusing to be honest... After all, its takes a wise man to look in to the face of ignorance and smile! I'll post some pix when I get a chance. Thanks again! Timlin

Haters going to hate.... my C 4 S is a great car, one of the best I have owned.

So there is a pair of early Boxsters in the visitors lot outside. Hard to figure out which one is more beat to heck. So at least you don't own one of "those cars" ..

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Porker? Really? 996 was both lighter and more powerful than the 993 that proceeded it. Yup. Another example specifically with 911's... Mid-year 911SC's were never loved by the 'Porsche elite'. To the cool-Porshe-kids, they had the wrong bumpers, the wrong gearbox, too much pollution control, the wrong displacement, too many luxury gadgets, and generally were considered to be an example of Porsche caving to American market demands. A very nice car could be purchased for $10K-$15K just four years ago. Now they are getting silly $$$. Damn, I wish I held onto mine! Could almost trade it for a 997 Turbo these days...

'Porker' is Brit/Aussie slang for a Porsche.

I bought a 275 GTB4 Ferrari once for 23000 dollars, nobody liked it very much, they wanted Daytonas. Today its over two million dollars and almost 3 million. My 996 is a better car than that was, go figure!!!

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so Boxster bashing is OK?

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Love my 04c4s cab

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Classic. Good catch!

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How do you buy a 1999 996 in 1995 with 55K?! Porsche version of the Back To The Future!

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Yes I agree. Starting now there will be no more bashing of any Porsche model. That is all.

Great thread! Not sure of the exact date but in my late teens early 20 s fell in love with 911s . May have been the early 930. Finally after way too long I bought my first porsche, a clean well maintained 03 996. All I know is it is the greatest car I have ever owned. If I had chosen an 83 sc I would be saying the same thing about that one. Bottom line is porsche made the ultimate real world sports car over 50 years ago and they have been perfecting it ever since. Enjoy your ride!

I owned a 996TT before, and quickly realized 90% of the haters were people did not own Porsches. They all had this synthetic opinions about 996s and how ugly the front end blah blah blah all this vomit. A respectful person and/or a true Porsche enthusiast would appreciate any part of the 911 evolution and each era for what it is worth for. I would not be too carried away with haters.

They are awesome cars, loved em when I was a kid, and that feeling has not changed. Joining the club tomorrow, I can't wait.

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Got it. Hadn't heard that before... Hooning in a porker

All Porsches are great. Non car people have no idea about the different variants. To them a 996 looks pretty much like a 993 and a 997. My nephew bought a 2000 C2 996 for $18000. His reasoning, the chicks see my driving a Porsche and to them the impression is the same as if he had a $200K TTS. For Porsche purists, the 996 is generally viewed with some negativity since it marked the end of the air cooled era and those darn headlights.

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You are the problem and the exact person we are discussing. Jackassed statements like that make us all look bad. Good job.

Well if you seen the cars you might understand my point which I must not have made clearly. Torn roof, ripped leather, faded, dirty, and generally kept up like a common disposable transportation utensile. It struck me that two of them parked side by side in the same horrific condition.

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Yep, it's been caught already, see post #19, lol.... +996

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I have people all the time ask if my 1999 996 is new....

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x2, people always get very impressed when I tell them my car is from 99...

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THREAD

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A girl I dated a couple of years ago doesn't understand why I was repairing the car myself, "Isn't the car under warranty?" she asked, she honestly thought my 13 years old 996 was only a couple of years old. IS

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It is a bit strange... I rarely see a really ratty (cosmetic condition) 996's, even on craigslist. But I see trashed & abused 986's all the time.

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WoRTHLe55

A 996 with tiptronic - double whammy

I think what the guys are trying to say is.........

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On the odd occasion that someone makes a negative comment about my car, I just casually ask "Oh, what kind of Porsche do you drive?" Ha, my MIL thinks I'm driving a $150k car. I don't correct her because I can tell that it drives her nuts. Yeah, well, I've owned a Porsche for ten years now and have long known that most of the purists are douchenozzles. Honestly, that's what my 996 will look like some day. I'm one of those weird guys that doesn't really care what it looks like as long as everything works properly. Every time I see a beat up Porsche, I silently high five the owner for "gettin' his money's worth" out of it. Hell, I'd rather drive a trashed Porsche than pretty much anything else.

"Honestly, that's what my 996 will look like some day. I'm one of those weird guys that doesn't really care what it looks like as long as everything works properly. Every time I see a beat up Porsche, I silently high five the owner for "gettin' his money's worth" out of it." Sort of like #12 in your avatar? Phew...that's some paint job I'm envisioning Hank Moody's 964 in Californication...

996's are beautiful. However there definitely is some elitism, almost all of it within the Porsche community, that looks down on the 996. All you have to do is read the other sections of this forum to experience it. It appears to be centered on either the interior design or the headlight configuration, neither of which makes any sense to me. Certainly non-p car owners don't express it, since as others here have stated, they generally can't tell the different iterations apart.

I think they are all jealous. We got more performance and better looks. It's jealousy.

Funny thing. For years I lurked on the 993 forum. The 993 was going to be the perfect 911 for me. The longhoods rusted and had too much window for visual balance. And I was surprised Porsche survived the ugliness of impact bumper cars - testament to their sporting virtuosity, I took it. Now that 993s cost twice that of a 996, my kids being in university and my wife having a long unemployment spell, I swung over to the 996 forum to see about possibly my last chance to finally have a 911. You might say I 'hated' the 996 before - the terminal mechanics, the headlights and the bland reinterpretation of the 356 lines. And in my part of the continent, the cars were commonly driven in the salty winter slush. But I've cultivated a taste for this car aesthetically. Not quite sold on the headlights yet, but I now feel they fill in some of that broad expanse of bare sheet metal that's always bothered me on cars without a grille, without a face, and they simultaneously add a positive lengthening to the front lines. With effort, the mechanical oblivion can be avoided. I treat that perceived 'hating' as opportunity for me to afford what I expect to be an ultimate ownership and driving experience.

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When I bought my last 2001 C4 I brought it home and my neighbor came over to check it out. He said he heard my pull in and knew I had something nice. I asked him what year he thought it was, and he said 2011?

I'm tired of you guys always lambasting my car just get over it. It is better design more valuable most after sought 911 just ask all previous 996 owners who when back:

The 996 is unique, it is the only 911 with no lights in/on the front bumper. ( not sure what you guys in the US call them, I'm a Brit.) All other derivations have side/running lights or indicators. I make it think it gives much cleaner lines. I really like the lights, the 997 lights are too small and look too retro as if Porsche were trying too hard to make it look older.

^Agreed^

I have had near universally great responses to my car. Strangers routinely tell me how beautiful they think it is and they never believe it is now going on 13 years old. I have yet to meet a non Porsche person who doesn't love my car. The only negative reaction I have ever gotten is from people who own non 996 Porshes. There is a guy who works where I do who drives a 2012 4S. The guy won't even talk to me about my car. Another guy in the parking lot has a 2013 Cayman S, same thing. Both of them are just unfriendly ******. I have never encountered that in a car culture. I have a 289 first gen Mustang. Anyone with an old Mustang who sees me in it or I talk to when I see them, will talk my leg off about Mustangs. I have never ran into someone driving a really valuable Mustang, like a Shelby or a Fastback, and had them be anything but complimentary of my car. A decent number of Porsche people seem not to be that way. I hate to say it but my experience so far as shown that Porsche owners get a bad reputation among other car people for good reason sometimes. Not all Porsche owners and such have been bad. I email with Karl the guy that runs Rennsport KC. I think he used to post here under the name Doc Porsche. He is a hell of a nice guy. He advised me to buy a 993 because it would go up in value. He is none the less very complimentary of the 996. He thinks they are great machines and generally very reliable as long as you don't get unlucky with an IMS failure, which is a pretty small chance. In the end, none of what people say matters. I am not a joiner anyway. It annoys me but I bought my car to drive and enjoy. So what difference does anyone's opinion by mine matter? I would encourage you to think the same way.

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At some Porsches stopped being ultiliarian and cars that were meant to be used. The old 911s and 356s were often driven into the ground. That is why there are so few of them around that are survivors. I think sometime in the 1980s Porsches became status symbols and garage queens. I don't get it. And yeah, purists are douche bags. I never encountered a car culture so steeped in horse dung. You know what other sports car cultures call "build quality"? Old and heavy. You know what other sports car cultures call headlights? Things you turn on when you drive at night, not an essential element of the design and appeal.

A-holes will be A-holes, regardless of what type of car they drive or what social strata they inhabit. I recently joined the local PCA chapter and did a rally event. All the people I met at the event (obviously I didn't meet them all...) were extremely nice and seemed like down to earth "regular" folks. After the event, I met one guy in the bar who happened to be driving a Turbo 993 and not only was he complimentary of my car, but 996's in general - maybe he was yanking me, but he seemed genuine, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Also, right after I parked the car and was walking into the restaurant, a guy who parked next to me in a 997 came up and gave me big compliments on the looks and sound (Fabspeed Maxflows) of my car. He is a 30 something "used car dealer" (basically buys and sells used exotics out of a small shop/office) and his wife is school teacher. Once again regular folks just out to enjoy their Porsches. I didn't hear one mention of headlights or water cooled engines, from breakfast all the way through the awards ceremony !

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The discussions between the variants of the 911 are interesting. It seems to be an inner conflict between the air-cooled purists and the 1st water cooled 911, cant accept that much change perhaps. On the other hand try pulling up to a PCA event in a 928. The odd thing is that the typical "purists" are genuinely interested in learning more about her. Maybe because the V8 water cooled thing doesn't encroach on their air-cooled coolness. (even though the 928 was originally designed to replace the 911) However the other water cooled guys usually have a lot to say about her being unreliable, a money pit, maintenance nightmare. Which any car is if left neglected like many of the 928s were. I enjoy them both and enjoy learning more about the air-cooled cars as I have always been a water cooled kind of guy.

^ That's one purdy shark ya got there! ^