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Adjust cam timing in a car would kinda suck
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Adjusting cam timing in a car would kinda suck near as I can tell.
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Suggestion
One day after work his starter wouldn't engage and after checking his battery, I suggested we 'push start' it.
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Suggestion
I won't even change oil if we haven't built the engine.
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Suggestion
I plan on some changes and want to do the most I can to get that motor broken in correctly and running efficiently.
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Suggestion
The ECU was removed and sent to The ECU Doctor, and checked out to be perfect (I think this set us back over a week
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So in my search for a re-builder ,, and deciding on the overall plan, one thing that I noticed is there are shops that rebuild but don't really have a in-house dyno.. Now I've road tuned cars in the past, but that's usually starting with a build that's really well known. IE a small GM V8 with a kit from a builder supplier that easily gets you within waving distance of being dead on. On these engines I am not sure its the same game, based on FSI's posts, and just the process of talking to builders seems like a list of tuners with a demonstrated track record would be cool.
It doesn't sound like FSI gets in to tuning as a standalone task? (I can take my car there just for a tune...) Not sure kinda wondering..
I can see some obstacles ,, like your not going to work out cam timing on a drive on,, that's territory for a engine dyno. Adjusting cam timing in a car would kinda suck near as I can tell.
So who's out there that does a good job?
Their own builds only afaik. Short of having Jake and his crew do it, he is farming his builds out to shops certified by him now - it's possible one of these shops may offer this type of service. It's not like it can't be done, it just helps if they really understand the M96.
The proper way to tune these is on the dyno .As for cam timing it requires to lock the cams in one position advance timing till peak torque then lock cams in other position add timing till peak and then work on switch over. I do these all the time on my dyno.
Yea one "option" that's out there is I could do a set of Shrick cams for instance, they were a good thing on my old air cooled car,, not sure how it plays today.
But that's what got me wondering.. How many shops out there are set up to engine dyno and tune a custom M9* engine.. The jigging and setup for the systems seems like it would be insane..
Even finding someone to do one on a drive on with a stock+ setup is a bit of a challenge.
We will only tune engines we have built. I won't allow an engine on my property unless its our own. I won't even change oil if we haven't built the engine.
We do 100% of EVERYTHING for engines that we build, and do 0% for engines we haven't built.
That said, how can an engine builder NOT have a dyno, and be an engine builder? They can't. I have two engine dynos, and I am adding a 3rd. We also have a chassis dyno. Dynos are tools, nothing more. Not having one, and being an engine builder means the same thing as not having a wrench required to perform the tasks.We had to invest in the capabilities to do this in house, because no one else could be trusted, and I get screwed. The same goes with why I had to buy my own engine balancer, and all the other machine shop equipment.
Never let anyone tune an engine if they cannot do the tune live. Mail order tunes are generic, and cause problems more, and more. The last "Tuner" I talked to (who is well- known, and considered a "go to guy") did some crazy stuff and I asked him what the 4 strokes of a 4 stroke engine were, in order. He knew two of them, but he knew how to punch in some code and write a program that killed rod bearings in 500 miles.
The record was a well known tuning shop that did 18 dyno pulls on one of my customer's cars in a row, on a 90 degree day with no fans to keep the engine cool. They kept doing runs till the engine failed, then they played innocent.
What they didn't know was the onboard camera in the car was recording audio the whole time, and the AIM dash was set to data log, too. They fought the owner of the car, and it went to Court. He pulled out the evidence and won 60K on top of the cost of my engine.
So, in short don't buy a tune if the tune can't be done live, with data collection, and performed on the dyno. Ask the tuner if he can recite the 4 strokes of a 4 stroke engine, you might be surprised.
Good luck in your quest.
I've been watching this thread and hoping someone has a suggestion for a "tuner" with a dyno or at least starts list of go-to shops. I'm looking for someone that will help with the tune after my rebuild. I plan on some changes and want to do the most I can to get that motor broken in correctly and running efficiently. Its been a challenge to find someone I can trust, which is always the case when it comes to people and places in the car world. There are a lot of great people out there who do great work, but we have to pay for that. I've found a place in Scottsdale, AZ that seems to have a good reputation, but I'll hold off on a recommendation until I hear more or have a good visit with them. Maybe its just the GT3 guys that spend their gobs of money on these things
I just can't believe these guys cannot name the four strokes -- pretty sure that was the first thing they taught us in high school auto shop back in 1977. I don't think cars even had four strokes back then
My 8 year old daughter has known the 4 strokes for the last 3 years.. But, she has a dragster, and builds her own engines. She just finished a 914 engine that's ready to start later today.
These guys didn't have shop classes, they are computer guys that know how to write code, and play some freaking video game. They don't build engines, and they don't know how they work.
I'm serious about the tuners... Most have no idea how the engine works. They go in, remove the limiters, jack up the ignition timing, and the engine makes more power, until it gets heat soaked.. Every single one that I met was the same way, they didn't do the evaluations with an engine that was heat soaked to mimic actual operation. They dyno cars in areas with dirty air, and not enough ventilation, and then the tuning parameters are always wrong in the real world.
Some of the best tuners you can deal with are guys that have tuned Subarus. The Porsche tuners are a bunch of playboys based on my experience.They buy big ads, and try to kiss up to the magazine guys to build a faux presence. They peddle all the same Chinese garbage"go fast" parts, and brand them all up as their own.
The Suby guys usually know how to tune things to make them live, and what not to do.
Also, make sure that they do not encrypt their files, if not you can't ever overwrite them to go back to a stock tune, or etc. The cars that come to us with a tune create all sorts of issues if the tune is locking us out. We have to manipulate the ECU to accept a new factory file, then we have to download that file, and build up a new file to load. This was a problem with
@dporto
's 996 and it took me days to overcome it. As soon as a car arrives here we try to read the factory DME file, if we can't to that we are dead in the water.
So, find a local Suby guy with a dyno and you'll have at least half of a chance for success.
"
We have to manipulate the ECU to accept a new factory file, then we have to download that file, and build up a new file to load. This was a problem with
dporto
's 996 and it took me days to overcome it. As soon as a car arrives here we try to read the factory DME file, if we can't to that we are dead in the water."
^^^That's news to me^^^. AFAIK/Remember, my tune was stock/factory - There was a question in the beginning of the troubleshooting process (not when the car got there) that questioned the ECU (due to the leaning out of the fuel mixture above 5500 rpm - Jake thought there might a problem with the ECU that was causing this condition). The ECU was removed and sent to The ECU Doctor, and checked out to be perfect (I think this set us back over a week
). Once they FSI identified the venturi tube problem everything was fine...
I'll amend my original comment about auto shop. My grandpa ran a gas station (2 pumps -- dirt drive) and if I couldn't name the 4 strokes when I was your girl's age he'd whoop my bottom. Let's see, on my Pinto it was "gasp, wring, pop, whoosh" yeah, that's how it went.
Seriously though, thanks for that advice. I'll talk to some of the Suby guys around me.
Yeah, all of the issues I had at first preceded the trip to ECU Dr. It was just the beginning of the nightmare.Initially I was locked out.
I may not have told you, it wasn't like I could charge you for it, anyway.
This isn't the old days. Most of these tuners are millennials, they never had a shop class, and their parents didn't teach them anything. They grew up with a device in their hands, and they expect everything to miraculously occur.
That said, one of the worst tuners in the industry isn't a millennial, he's a washed up guy that makes the same mistakes over and over again. We can open up one of his files and within 30 seconds we know its his, because the same tables are modified. He has a certain fingerprint, and he does them all the same exact way- no matter the engine spec.
A late '20s guy at work is into German cars and he comes to me for advice occasionally. He has a GTI and while he's a super cool guy, he has no clue about of any of the moving parts of the car. One day after work his starter wouldn't engage and after checking his battery, I suggested we 'push start' it. He replied, "push start?" and I said "yes, push start/pop start, whatever". He had no idea what I was talking about so I regaled him with stories of push starting cars by myself. First with a Renault in high school and then a MGB in college. When I explained the procedure, he looked at me like I had just performed a brain transplant or something.
My Dad taught me how to do oil changes and basic tune-up stuff and made it clear I was on my own for maintenance and repair.
I think below is what Dad must have been referencing when he taught me the 'proper' way to dispose of old oil.
