41 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHEarly build Internal IMS?
Leading reported evidence
Replace on any 911 without splitting the case
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
As written, it references the IMS, not the IMSB, which cannot be replaced on any 911 without splitting the case.
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Suggestion
if this was the original engine this would not be true, the engine probably has been replace, get the engine serial number and check back to see if it is a replacement engine.
Leading evidence: 'Replace on any 911 without splitting the case' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'good bet' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check back' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suspected cause
Its probably a good bet, but I'm thinking you can't really know for sure until you get in there and have a look.
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Suggestion
if this was the original engine this would not be true, the engine probably has been replace, get the engine serial number and check back to see if it is a replacement engine.
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Suggestion
But if it is the large bearing, you might just have them remove the seal, check the bearing and then put the flange back on.
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Suggestion
As others mentioned....you can check the engine serial # to see its manufacturing year and the vin # under the door to see how "early" the chassis is...the sticker under the drivers door should have a month/year
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Check back
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Suggestion
if this was the original engine this would not be true, the engine probably has been replace, get the engine serial number and check back to see if it is a replacement engine.
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Suggestion
As others mentioned....you can check the engine serial # to see its manufacturing year and the vin # under the door to see how "early" the chassis is...the sticker under the drivers door should have a month/year
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Suggestion
On the other hand, if you wanna double check, once the transmission is down for the clutch, it is easy to see if you have the double row as the IMS flange should be shallow.
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Suggestion
If the engine does have the larger, non-serviceable bearing, you should still go through the motions and have the grease seal removed to allow the engine oil to lubricate the original bearing.
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Suggestion
if this was the original engine this would not be true, the engine probably has been replace, get the engine serial number and check back to see if it is a replacement engine.
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41 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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Hi Everyone
i just picked up a 99 996. It has a 110k mile on it and needed an new clutch and flywheel. I had asked the shop to do the IMS work as well, but they informed me that my car is an early build which does not have access to the IMS during a clutch change. They said the IMS can only be change during an engine rebuild. Can�t find any info on this, has anyone heard this before???
if this was the original engine this would not be true, the engine probably has been replace, get the engine serial number and check back to see if it is a replacement engine.
This is where I would call the shop and ask them to not begin any work. If this was their response, they do not know these cars (or engines) well enough for me to trust them with it.
Is the shop you are using a shop that normally handles Porsche automobiles? If no, consider another shop. First have them verify what they mean by their statement. If it is a '99 with an original motor, what they said is patently wrong.
If it is an "early build" you probably have the double row...which most likely is fine.
On the other hand, if you wanna double check, once the transmission is down for the clutch, it is easy to see if you have the double row as the IMS flange should be shallow.
As others mentioned....you can check the engine serial # to see its manufacturing year and the vin # under the door to see how "early" the chassis is...the sticker under the drivers door should have a month/year
Yes the fact they said "they informed me that my car is an early build..." is a warning sign for certain.
If they know their 996's they'd say something like "the engine is a factory replacement and we can't access the IMS without splitting the case," right?
That's like saying Wookies live on Endor. It just doesn't make any sense. At least until they show you a picture of the flange (then show us) its easy to figure if its the large bearing and will need the cases split. But if it is the large bearing, you might just have them remove the seal, check the bearing and then put the flange back on. I'm with everyone else here, sounds like they might not know what they need to know to do this work.
If the engine does have the larger, non-serviceable bearing, you should still go through the motions and have the grease seal removed to allow the engine oil to lubricate the original bearing.
https://imsretrofit.com/my06-08/
Under no circumstances should you have your case bored out to allow you to change the original bearing. The debris generated carrying out such an invasive procedure will result in an engine failure. We've fixed several engines shortly after this procedure was carried out, requiring us to make repair sleeves to fix the blocks.
Is this a US car? If so, go grab a pen, paper, and flashlight. Walk past the driver's side door, when you past the rear wheel, lay towel down on the floor to lay down on, and using a flashlight shine it underneath the car's engine. It's pretty isn't it? Now, on the bottom of the engine is a square looking thing they call the oil sump. That's where most of the oil resides when you're not driving. Porsche calls it a "integrated dry sump", but we all know that's Porsche marketing BS to make it sound like a GT3 or something. Anyway, look on the side of the edge of the sump and you'll see a plate with engraved numbers on it. The numbers might not be visible and so you might need to clean it with a mild solvent and fine steal wool. Now, you're ready to take a photograph. Do you have a digital camera or instamatic? Hopefully, the former. If you don't have either, using the pen and paper, write down the number and post here. Good luck.
"Now, you're ready to take a photograph. Do you have a digital camera or instamatic? Hopefully, the former. If you don't have either, using the pen and paper, write down the number and post here. Good luck."
Or, use your phone...
I'm pretty sure they all include cameras these days (even flip phones...)
BTW what an "instamatic"
^^^ Correct ^^^ - the OP say's IMS - which is a common mistake made by the uninformed when referring to the IMS Bearing... Correcting this mistake gets really old very quickly so many here just make the assumption that IMSB is what was meant (which can also lead to more confusion) hence my popcorn comment...
that's a lot of popcorn... and it's damn salty...
Mmmm Guiness...
Technically true....buy why would someone ask them to do "work" on the IMS itself? It is not a preventative replacement item and if it were broken they shouldn't be wasting the OP's money on a clutch and RMS, lol. The OP clearly means the IMS bearing. The shop may have, indeed, meant the IMS itself...but the comment about it being an early model and needing the case split doesn't make sense as this would be the case for ALL 996's...so they are still a bit sketchy.
OP needs to ensure that he has specifically asked them to replace the existing IMS Bearing and then have them confirm their statement.
I get it. But this is shop that wrote this, not an Internet Forum quotation. One must assume that the shop is using the right term. Both IMS and IMSB have their own issues. �Servicing the ISB� is a real thing. Ask Charles; L&N will do it for you.
Wow this is a lively bunch.
thanks for the feedback, humor and hazing.
I�m on the road a lot so I wasn�t home to get the engine info until tonight.
engine number M96/01AT66X66206. I�m attaching
the picture.
car has an in service date of 6-17-98.
what the shop wrote on the invoice �IMS bearing on this motor is internal of motor and would need and engine overhaul to complete update�
Folks. I want to enjoy my car. Looking forward to your comments! Arp.
Yup, factory replacement. Just have the grease seal removed (if it's the large bearing) when you do the clutch.
Now as far as the shop goes, How do they know what bearing is in there? Or do they think a dual row can't be replaced without splitting the case?
The late single row larger bearing is bigger than the diameter of the ins flange , hence the need to split the engine to remove, porsche upgrades to this bearing to attempt to stop ims failure, but I believe it is v rare with this bearing and probably down to bad servicing etc, Hartech actually fit this bearing as part of their engine rebuild but remove the bearing seal, the seal is problematic as oil does get inside and washes away all the grease , but then what happens is a small amount of oil gets trapped in there and there is insufficient flow , this causes the oil to break down providing bad lubrication to the bearing causing excessive wear , hence why I the early double row and the later single row are left in place without modification the seal is usually removed to allow better oil flow into the bearing , with your late bearing , just remove the seal and do oil change every six months or 5k and you will be all good, also don't forget to buy a Polaroid camera and photograph the sump after every oil change, the oil cathode ray flash passes low level gamma rays into the sump providing a negative ion charge which helps keep the oil in good condition ?
The AT in the engine serial number designates it's a replacement, however the engine would have been replaced at some point after the car was put into service with an engine using whatever was the most current IMS bearing. What you have depends on when the engine was built by Porsche. If it was build in model year 2006 or later, it will have the larger, non-serviceable bearing.
Regardless, you need to have the transmission pulled. If it is serviceable, have it changed. If not, have them pull the grease seal to help extend the life of the original non-serviceable bearing.
Let's break down the engine number shall we?
M96/01
- 3.4L base engine
AT
- "Austauschmotor" or means replacement in German. So this is not the original engine, but a factory replacement under warranty.
66X
- 1999 engine build
66206
- serial number
And so, what you have here, unless I'm mistaken, this is an early replacement with a 1999 model engine which means it would have the dual row bearing.
Am I missing something here guys?
