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YOUR RESEARCH996 horsepower gains?
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Install last month
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ie, buy this then find out it doesn't work well with a part you installed last month, then only to have a Tuner say, you shouldn't have bought this, you needed this, because you installed that.
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I bought those agency power short headers for my 996 because I've seen that type of header used by porsche on the 05 and 06 3.2.
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Reminds me of the horsepower calculation methods used by Sport Compact Car readers in the 90's.
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In the last other thread I suggested using a PCA tech sheet as a check list to investigate what might /should be done.
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Sorting thru my checklist on a number of things I have to replace/enhance in the car to further prolong engine life in combination with the info identified on Zbombs "Oil Pressure Stability" thread.
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ie, buy this then find out it doesn't work well with a part you installed last month, then only to have a Tuner say, you shouldn't have bought this, you needed this, because you installed that.
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Sorting thru my checklist on a number of things I have to replace/enhance in the car to further prolong engine life in combination with the info identified on Zbombs "Oil Pressure Stability" thread.
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The reason is that you need to keep your engine running regardless if you are going to track your car or just street it, the issues and solutions are the same.
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After having owned my 02 996 for 19 years, tracking it since 2004, instructing DE students half of those track years, and testing various components on the car over the years on and off the track, my comments are summary of my experience with the 996, nothing more.
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Assuming one wants more power so they can actually use that power (what�s the point of mods if we are going to still use 75% throttle), the engine will suffer on the track or even spirited street driving if those reliability mods haven�t been applied.
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I have an 04� Carrera 4S/6 speed. I wanted to install the Soul equal length headers with the IPD mass air and 82mm throttle body. Has anyone done this? Any thing I should consider? Do you get a decent horsepower/Torque gain?
Here is an exercise that I went thru years ago. Write a list of all the parts such as headers, cats, mufflers, plenum, throttle body, software, air filter, etc. Next to each item, write down the gain in HP and TQ that is advertised. Add all of it up and you are looking at nearly a 100 HP and TQ gain. That would take our cars to 420 HP. Do you think that is accurate?
IMHO, buy the exhaust because you like the sound and craftsmanship, and it may save some weight. Buy the plenum and throttle body because you like the giant sucking sound you get. Buy the software because you may get a little more throttle response.
But don't buy any of these things because you think you are going to get a significant boost in HP and TQ. All those parts if you are very lucky and skilled at software tuning, may get you 10 HP and TQ.
I got them all and haven't noticed any enhancement on the street or track. Nor did they show any meaningful improvement on the dyno with the exception of moving the powerband up a notch. I am not complaining because I love the sound and the weight savings. Hey all of us will eventually have to replace parts so why not upgrade with well manufactured parts.
However, if you want meaningful HP and TQ, you are going to have to rebuild your engine from a 3.6 to 3.8 or 4.0.
Normally aspirated engines seem to be less responsive to these parts than does a turbo. Nothing wrong with this. Just seems to be a reality of engineering.
Enjoy your car. The 996 is awesome.
Mike, one of these days we are going to have to meet at one of the Chicago PCA events. Hoping to make the Labor Day Road America event as well as Oktoberfest. Maybe a Blackhawk event as well. Sorting thru my checklist on a number of things I have to replace/enhance in the car to further prolong engine life in combination with the info identified on Zbombs "Oil Pressure Stability" thread.
I went thru a similar experience with an 06 Cayman S. I went to the dyno initially but switched over to roll on tests with an identical Cayman S. Long tube headers, TB and plenum maybe increased the very top end. The car definitely lost power at low rpms. I bought those agency power short headers for my 996 because I've seen that type of header used by porsche on the 05 and 06 3.2. and Jake said he saw mid range torque on the dyno.
Doug, appreciate your findings. Curious to find out if the Agency Headers did improve your mid-range torque. What are you running for Cats and muffler?
The other thing to keep in mind when dealing with Porsches specifically is that Porsche has already gone out of their way to wring a lot of power out a relatively small naturally aspirated engine.
Not many 6 cylinder engines in the early 2000s had anywhere near 300 horsepower, even those with turbos.
We should! Any interest in the Oak Park cats and coffee this Sunday from 8:30-10:30am? There�s always a few Porsches there, including a GT3 and an executive/exclusive edition 991 (I might be calling it the wrong thing).
I kinda have a similar set up with the exception of the Soul exhaust.
- IPD Competition plenum with GT3 TB
- 997 Airbox
- Fister exhaust
- Agency Power headers
It certainly made a difference and sounds amazing but with all that� maybe 15hp? IDK but it made me happy.
On the Cayman, The IPD plenum eliminated the butterfly valve that helps with low end power. On the 996, that valve is in the other crossover tube so you get to keep it in place. I have seen a number of dyno measurements that show a few HP gain with 200 cell cats and it doesn't appear to cost low end power.
Unfortunately, the plenum and TB did sacrifice quite a. Bit of mid-end torque. Don't know if it's the plenum or throttle body or both doing it since I put them on together. Powerband starts to pull after 4500. But I do get a giant sucking sound. 😁
Talk to a respectable Tuning Company before you spend any money.
You gain horsepower and torque on a 3.6L across the powerband if done correctly.
But, Big But, that horsepower/torque cost about $200.00 each, ie $5k for 25hp @ peak.
A good Tuner will explain things to you.
Think about updating your Suspension and brakes before dropping money on engine mods.
The first thing I would do if I was a new 996 owner is spend my money on engine durability and longevity before contemplating any upgrades on horsepower, suspension, aero, etc. The reason is that you need to keep your engine running regardless if you are going to track your car or just street it, the issues and solutions are the same. Read JP_Gervis' recent thread on tracking his car. Also read Zbombs threads. They will provide plenty of info.
Then, if you want to be faster in your car on the track, your next logical step is suspension, braking, adding a limited slip differential if your car doesn't have one, moving from street tires to competition tires for grip, and adding safety equipment and racing seats. Not to mention driving instruction to make you a better driver on and off the track.
If you just street your car, suspension, braking, LSD, competition tires, etc., are irrelevant because you really don't realistically need any of them because you really can't use them to their fullest on the street. If you ever tracked your car you will understand the meaning of this. Highways and winding roads with occasional bursts of speed do not compare to driving at speed on the track. Nor do the equipment demands compare.
However, if you do track your car, you will get more speed from the items listed in paragraph two above than any "tuning" items, because the "tuning" items we all have talked about don't account for much in HP/TQ gains since its a normally aspirated engine. Tuning becomes relevant when you have a turbo engine. Where your real HP/TQ gains will come in is when you have your engine rebuilt to a 3.8 or 4.0 from a reputable engine builder. In this case, they will be able to structurally address the engine durability issues referenced in JP and Zbombs threads and add significant HP and TQ.
Exterior and interior aesthetics do nothing for performance but certainly are nice to look at.
The great thing about the 996 is that it is not only an exceptional car, but you can customize it for any purpose and in any way you see fit. At the end of the day, it's all up to what you want.
Enjoy.
I have to disagree
1) How do you know his nearly 20 year old car does not need updating to Suspension items, like arms, bushings and struts. To state that it is not necessary is a leap, is it not.
2) On what normally aspirated engine would you increase exhaust flow and increase intake air (cfm) and fuel , then not need to have a Tuner tweak the ecm? I suppose some one could bolt on thousands of dollars of equipment and not have them work properly with the rest of their engine, I am sure it has been done before.
Again, don't buy anything for your engine for performance enhancement unless you know what the finish product/result is going to be.
Geez, not like saying everything I said in a post was wrong???
NY,
Clearly many 20 year 996s need the suspension updated plus many other things. Mine included. The compare and contrast was in fact confirming your point of suspension over tuning in your post.
My post was making the point that before you do anything, you gotta make sure your engine is protected or you will have a heavy paperweight that will be sitting in your garage.
Regarding "tuner" never said you wouldn't want a tuner. In fact, I would suggest that everyone should have a seasoned Porsche Indy shop that they rely on to properly service and tune their car, especially if they do not have the expertise themselves.
My comment was pertaining to the limitations placed on normally aspirated engines as to the ability to squeeze out performance gains versus a turbo. Unfortunately, we are severely limited to significant gains unless we embark on a comprehensive rebuild to increase it from a 3.6 to a 3.8 or even 4.0. Not good or bad, just an engineering reality.
After having owned my 02 996 for 19 years, tracking it since 2004, instructing DE students half of those track years, and testing various components on the car over the years on and off the track, my comments are summary of my experience with the 996, nothing more.
As I said in my previous post, the great thing about 996 ownership is that you can build the car to your specifications and in the way you want to do it.
You got a great car. Looking forward to hearing more from you on your experiences with the car.
GC996 is right. This engine has already been tuned by the factory by default, and there�s just not much more to be gained, unless the whole engine is redesigned. The factory redline, for example is already high enough that more RPM will not increase power to any degree, or will cause a power dip elsewhere lower down in the curve, resulting in a net gain of zero or a negative gain.
However, the main issue with this engine is lack of proper oiling/cooling when it�s producing max HP. Assuming one wants more power so they can actually use that power (what�s the point of mods if we are going to still use 75% throttle), the engine will suffer on the track or even spirited street driving if those reliability mods haven�t been applied.
We're happy to work with anyone who would like dyno results independently to share with the forum to show off real, repeatable gains of our products. Just shoot us a message and we can help make it happen.
-Mike
Sure, love to see the following dynos for a 2002 3.6 996 3.6 with (1) headers, 200 cell cats and performance muffler with IPD Comp plenum and GT3 throttle body and (2) headers, 200 cell cats and performance muffler w/o plenum and throttle body.
in addition, what software works the best with your exhaust system?
Thanks
Nothing but respect for your experience, but even more for you giving back by being an instructor.
There was another thread started a while back about wanting to get on track with a 996.
I just wanted the thread started to realize that you can spend thousands just getting a 996 freshened up.
From bushings and struts to brake hoses and rebuilding calipers, if you don't wrench yourself is considerable money.
In the last other thread I suggested using a PCA tech sheet as a check list to investigate what might /should be done.
This would definitely have to be done with any maintenance that is needed with engine.
There are actually people that I know put headers and Plenumn, TB and aftermarket AirBox before changing out 15 year old plugs and coils 🤯🤯🤯
I just don't like seeing people waste money on Hope's of making a 996 faster with a mixed up bunch of parts.
Maybe see you at a HPDE sometime.
Yes, you can expand horsepower/torque band and increase peak with normally aspirated engines. I was trying to emphasize that a person who is going to go down this road, should figure out what they are wanting at the end.
ie, buy this then find out it doesn't work well with a part you installed last month, then only to have a Tuner say, you shouldn't have bought this, you needed this, because you installed that.
Even then, with thousands of dollars in performance enhancements, the end result may not be what was expected.
Agree, more bang for the buck with a turbo car no doubt, but that was not what this thread started was talking about.
Agreed completely with you. So much to talk about regarding so many topics and much gets lost in narrow scope of a post and thread.
Your car looks great by the way!
Thank you for asking but I don't have those specifics. My proposal was that anyone who has interest in verifying gains on the dyno - we will pay for the dyno runs with pre-approval to get information to share. For software
we use Softronic
as Scott has extensive experience tuning factory Porsche race cars. John Gaydos is available to walk anyone through the tuning process to ensure a great and easy experience. You're always welcome to call John and ask him any questions that you have, he'll talk your ear off about all options there are on the market and what would work best for your unique needs!
-Mike
John is a cool guy and straight gear head - have been lucky enough to talk to him and he absolutely knows his stuff. I would not hesitate to get input from soul team on how to get the motor breathing better.
The stock mufflers are heavy, so anyone wanting to shave a lot of weight quickly might replace those and replace the battery with an antigravity. I bet one could shave 70lbs with just those 2 mods. Maybe 85lbs with the spare tire. Then there are the front seats; quite heavy those are.
