Why did you choose a 996 c4s?

Newb on 911s, although have had other Porsches. As a current or former owner, what do you think the pros and cons have been on owning a c4s? With regular 997 Carreras just a few thousand more in the used market, what makes the c4s a better choice? Looking to hear feedback to learn and decide which era of 911 is for me. Ideally it'll be a daily driver. I'm not mechanically inclined. No track. Looked at used 991s but couldn't justify 3x used pricing from 996 and double from 997, at least not yet. Thanks !

1) Some people like a less-common car; there were (a lot) fewer 996 C4S made than 997.1 coupe. 2) It's not 'just' looks-- though some would argue that the 'turbo-look' of the C4S would, by itself, merit the premium. Bigger brakes, sharper suspension, and some standard interior appointments (full leather, pseudo-suede headliner, upgraded stereo, more?) are baked into every C4S. 3) The 996 remains, for the time being, the red-headed stepchild of Carreraville. I suspect the 997 you look at for 'a few thousand more' than a C4S will have higher miles, less factory equipment, muddier service history, or some combination of these. As a performance/equipment/condition per dollar proposition, 996 C4S seems to me a markedly better value than the 997.1.

Awesome, thank you. Do the driving dynamics between the two favor one over the other? How about the interior?

If you have no intentions to track it I can't imagine the driving characteristic differences would matter much. The 997 interior will be a step up over the 996.

If you have to ask then the 'benefits' probably don't matter to you...and I'm not saying that as a criticism. It's just that the other cars probably appeal to you equally. For me, it's a no-brainer: 1. Just look at it - it has all of the Turbo's curves without some of the Turbo's fuss that distracts from the original 911's shape. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the turbo and don't mind the fuss -- in fact, I love it, but the simplicity of the overall shape with the Turbo's big hips (but without the big tail and intakes on the side) just make it a standout. 2. AWD -- I know, I know, technically the RWD cars are more fun...but there's no denying the benefits of AWD even in the warmer months. IIRC, all of the early reviews suggested that despite their power:weight ratio disadvantage compared to the NB cars, they were quicker around a track because of the benefits of AWD -- even if potentially a hair slower in the straights. 3. All of the benefits of the Turbo's brakes, suspension, etc. 4. Potentially the most collectable 996 (not that I bought it for that)...outside of the Turbo which is, after all, a Turbo. To me, the question probably isn't why you'd get a C4S over a NB 996, it's why you'd get a C4S in lieu of a Turbo? And for every person who prefers a WB car there is (at least) one person who prefers a NB car -- which I love, too. If I were you, I'd forget NB vs. WB and just target the car that pulls you in the most and then get the best example you can afford. Then get it PPI'd. Did I mention a PPI? Best of luck! Whichever model you choose, I don't think you'll be disappointed. -Eric

Personally been going back and forth between a 4s and a Turbo. At the current juncture leaning toward the 4s for N/A power. Everything turbo'd I have owned ended up twice the stock power and twice the problems

I had this debate while looking for over a year...test drove 997 base...and 4s...and honestly power felt the same in both...but handling in 4s is unmatched...I actually think rear center light is better than the turbo wing also...if only it had side vent like turbos lol..I also agree with turbo costing more in price now and later down the line...I went 4s all the way...and don't regret it!! U get the best bang for ur buck IMO. Good luck

I would say looks, handling, and all the extras included with the C4S.

Very informative replies. I really appreciate it How have your maintenance costs been? I saw a 2002 turbo listed on eBay and from my calculations the maint costs were about $6k a year - a bit high I thought. How is your c4s?

Most common issues with the C4S are the front dif and axle PM and maybe a guibo disc change. Rarely a VC problem.

Only had c4s for couple of months...lucky for me porsche dealer did 60k maint right when I got it...so nothing crazy yet other then durametric...and of course a lot of little things on suncoast lol...but then again it's not my dd...I would guess that quote for turbo to be really high...u get one with good records I think u should be well under that price...

Personally, it was looks for me. No offense to anyone else on the 996 board, but I think it's the best looking of the 996 line up. Especially in coupe form. Mine is a cab. I've always liked the looks of the 4S. Both 993 and 996. I don't think you can really tell a difference with the 997's. I also like that it has all the goodies of the Turbo. I could have opted for a used 997, but I like exclusivity 4S.

Im glad that when I do find the right car, there's an excellent community to ask questions to and learn from. Now I'm convinced to lean towards the 996 c4s. Any of you use it as a daily driver ?

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Maintenance is standard stuff - oil changes, tune ups...other fluids etc at intervals you're comfortable with, changing more often is never a bad idea There are some common or not so common issues, depends on your faith in Internet forums IMSB, RMS, AOS, radiators, micro switches ...etc Biggest expense will be fuel and rear tires in my opinion Otherwise, knock on wood, very solid, dependable and reliable cars If you DD it, take care of it and treat it well, no real difference to any other car as far as maintenance Helps if you do some of it yourself, saves $$$ For any car I count on around $2k per year for maintenance and perishables Some years more some less, depends how **** or OCD you are about maintenance

Love the AWD. I really like the turbo chassis with the wider rear end and curves. To me the C4S is by far the best looking n/a 996. I almost bought a turbo but couldn't quite find what I wanted for the price I was willing to pay. Also the n/a flat six just sounds better than the turbo. The turbos really do sound like vacuum cleaners. Though I didn't buy my car as an investment, if any n/a 996 is ever going to appreciate it is the C4S. The last thing that swayed me to a 996C4S over a 997.1 C2 is that even though IMS bearings are sturdier in the 997.1, they can't be changed without breaking open the engine block. In the 996, you just swap in a new LN engineering IMS every 30,000 or so miles when you change the clutch and don't worry. I really think the more time goes and the older the 997.1s get, that is going to become a bigger and bigger issue. In my opinion, the IMS bearing is no longer an issue for 996s. It is just an extra maintenance item. The IMS issue will forever hang over the 997.1, however.

I Like Big Butts...and I cannot lie...

does this help? 4S converted to 2wd and 3.8. this is the 996 board after all.

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I usually don't like getting into these conversations as it usually is very subjective and ends up in a pissing match. I will say the WB looks absolutely stunning visually. However to me Porsche missed the mark(for me at least) by putting lipstick on a pig. This model would've been absolutely stellar had they decided to make it into a GTS type version by giving you both a 2wd and 4wd options and fitting it with a more powerful NA engine. Ideally this engine would be slightly higher output than x51 to further separate out the "C4S" designation from the normal base NB class but be under as to not conflict with the GT3 and Turbo models, say 35hp bump over the base. The example above achieves something to this effect and is something I would've definitely considered(and most likely chosen) if it came that way.

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Yep, between April and November it is my daily driver. I've got a 25 mile mostly highway commute (each way). It's a dream. Just keep in mind that they aren't the most economical cars. I typically see something like 16mpg on average. -Eric

I DD drive mine year round And we get nasty winters here -30 Celsius or colder, lots of snow, plus 30 Celsius in summer Car never misses a beat

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needs to get PINNED! ASAP

c4s is the closest you're gonna get to tt less the turbos - same brakes, suspension and wide body. put the wheels you want and presto, the less common porsche people will admire and you'll be proud of

I chose the 996 C4S because visually it just hit me. I have a C2 but eventually started hunting for an exceptional example of a C4S and after about 18 months I stumbled across one. I did briefly consider trading in the C2 and adding the cash for a 997 but I couldn't justify that for a 997.2. And given that I daily drive my cars I rationalized that having two of them would spread the mileage and wear out a bit. Got to love the ration of lies from time to time. I find the C4S to not only be attractive, but to be a very good performer and great as a daily driver and long road trips. Nice balance of power, performance, and comfort for me and the wife loves the ride quality. Cost to operate and maintain is not on the low end but I think reasonable for what you get. I think $2,500 to $3,500 per year on average is a reasonable expectation - I am including proper tires in that estimate. I had the opportunity to drive a 997.2 and although it was a fine machine, it just didn't pull me in enough to think that I'd rather have that than my C4S, and I'd rather have a 996 than a 997.1 for reason mentioned previously by others. Comments won't really help you - I think you need to experience both cars and unless dollars make the difference buy the one that hits you. Pretty much what Eric said "target the car that pulls you in the most and then get the best example you can afford." Happy Hunting

Once I saw the 996 C4S, I knew I had to have one. The car is very appealing visually. As others have said, the wide body without the visual clutter of the turbo is a great look. The C4S also has a nice combination of interior upgrades like full leather interior and Bose radio. I still miss the sound of my 996 normally aspirated engine with Fister sport mufflers. I drove my C4S as my daily driver for 7 years in all conditions. It never let me down.

I have always liked the WB 911s going back to the 930. With the combination of affordability of the 996 platform with all the turbo bits minus the increased maintenance(& price) of the TT, it was not a difficult decision I use mine as a daily driver year-round and it did better than my 5-series sedan in the winter. You have to remember that these are aging cars and things wear out. I will second the cost of tires and front diff. I am probably looking at having to replace shocks/springs and strut bearing/bushings. Try the cars out and to echo someone else, listen to what tugs the hardest.

I bought mine about 6 weeks ago because I was drinking bourban and surfing eBay So far I have had to fix one of the heated seats, replace a door latch, and a headlamp bulb, minor issues. The PO forgot to mention it had the sport exhaust. This car sounds great and is a blast!

I have had my 2003 C4S since april first this year. Its my daily driver and i just love it - best car i have ever owned. To me it was the looks that got me hooked on the C4S. The rear is just brutal imho

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I bought mine on eBay and it wasn't listed with the sport exhaust either.... Found out it had the PSE during the PPI but I never heard it until after I met the delivery truck to pick it up. WOW - Love the sound! Back to the OP - I will provide my experience. I bought my 4S Cab two years ago and it is my primary car of 2. I agree with everyone else about the looks, suspension, and brakes. One thing that I considered about the 4S was that since I'm not a track driver or trained in high speed handling - this car was capable of "helping" me have tons of safe fun on hilly winding roads.... With AWD and PSM (Porsche Stability Management) this car does not veer off of the line. I mean this car is on a rail ALL THE TIME. It goes where you point it - period! I entered my first Autocross this year and was able to find some under steer, but you will not find a better car (at this price) for totally fun spirited driving in the turns. For a non trained driver who might not "know" his driving limits - the C4S is one hell of a great choice! After 2 years I still get chills when I'm behind the wheel. It is an amazing engineered beauty! Either way you choose get the PPI.

Everyone, thanks for the awesome feedback. All the cars are gorgeous, may you drive them in good health. Would you guys mind sharing what you paid with miles?

My car is a daily driver. Year around in Chicago. Exception is a few times in the winter when there is standing snow over 4 inches. I chose the c4s because of the need for it to be a dd and the weather here. As far as maintenance costs, I would agree with the previous posts, I budget 2k. I was well under for the first several years. I did the IMS/AOS/clutch in the spring and that was a pretty significant expense. Otherwise, no problems at all. Very solid/reliable car.

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This is encouraging since I plan to drive mine through the upcoming Chicago winter.

Proper winter tires are the key!

I chose a C4S (twice!) because when I was in college in the '80s, I read about the 959 in Car & Driver and was smitten. I'd always loved 911s but the 959 with its performance, looks, AWD (and those gorgeous vents fore & aft) really burrowed into my brain and stayed there. Twenty-five years later, I knew which 911 I had to have. Didn't buy it to track it but got into DE's very quickly. I did a bunch of track mods and everyone told me I was wasting my money on an AWD. There's some truth to that but for the most part it's a simply tremendous track car too. Beauty ... performance ... track handling ... what else could I want??

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2004 4S cab 32k miles and paid $35k last year. Lots options, original msrp was $105k .

My DD for the past 2 years...excellent car...good gas mileage...just fun.

The 996 C4S will always hold their current steady value IMHO. I am not trying to be biased or wishful since I have one, but the looks of the wide body, w/o the headache of a turbo (no insults intended; based on my experience only) and the unique mid lens in the back just give it so much character over the 997's. I'm also a fan of NA engines since turbos need DD for optimum health. The NA engines can be taken out a couple of times every 2 weeks, driven above 3k RPM and your good. IMS is something to consider for sure, but it seems like the 4S models are not running into this issue as much as the other 996's. I'm going to be swapping mine out for the LN Pro pretty soon. Good luck in your search emember that you'll need to rack up some "seat time" before you can appreciate the AWD SAFELY!

I am glad I stumbled across this thread. I have been leaning towards the C4S as well instead of a C2. For those of you that have one - how many of you did the IMS upgrade? Wondering if I definitely need to use that as a factor in negotiation.

I did the LN Engineering ceramic IMSB upgrade when I changed my clutch at ~120K miles.

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In terms of negotiation IMS is absolutely a factor - it's about $1500 for the LN bearing installed. In terms of peace of mind, IMS fix was also a must-do. Got it done a few years ago and crossed it off my list of things to worry about.

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From a negotiation standpoint, consider it mandatory. Its a well documented issue and is not in-expensive. If you decide to put it off or not do it after purchase, thats up to you but you will at least have that consideration factored in

Thanks guys

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You don't want the headaches of a turbo so you would rather have the headaches of the IMS? Not sure of the logic behind that.

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I understand your point but it's still less headache if you just consider to replace the bearing every 45k-50k miles if and when with your clutch. In all fairness tough, when comparing 2 garage queens (turbo and a NA), considering both sit and only do 1,500-3,000 miles a year, which one MAY have more issues? I really think the turbo because those cars need more driving to stay in top form. And if this is the case, how frequently will you even hit those mileage intervals? Every 10 years? Maybe? That is the case with my garage, my C4S is a #3 option to drive, unless there is a meet or event to go to. So at least in my case, the turbo is not the best choice. If both are DD (or even 3 times a week), then yes, I would definitly do the turbo, hands down!

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I have both, 93k km on my 01 Turbo and 130k km on the 02 C4S. My Turbo does not get driven in the winter so it's off the road for almost 6 months. No issues with it not driving, nor does it need to be driven more frequently. Other then the there is a hydraulic clutch and rear spoiler which eventually after years and years will leak and have to be replaced there is no more maintenance on it then the C4S. The C4S is better on fuel consumption even when driving it hard. The Turbo is a gas guzzler when on throttle. I wish the mezger engine was in the C4S. It would have made it an amazing car. Now my C4S m96 engine needs to be completely rebuilt where I expect my Turbo's mezger will go until the chassis rusts out. Also for the guy who said the Turbo sounds like a vacuum cleaner. My Turbo doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner. Honestly mine sounds amazing when I start it up, much better then the sound of the m96 at idle. My Turbo is also slightly louder then the NA on throttle. Both my cars have modified exhausts and I have 200 cell cats on the C4S. I do like the looks of the 997.1 narrow body compared to the 997.1 widebody. I like the 997 full leather interior. But the C4S wide body is amazing looking with the red reflector and the C4S also come standard with full leather and a 996 full leather interior beats out a 997.1 standard interior. The 997.1 "non S" is also not any quicker then the C4S and actually slower then the 996.2 C2 and I believe the brakes are not as big as the C4S.

Maybe I was being a bit harsh when I said my turbo sounded like a vacuum cleaner , but I will say that it doesn't sound as good as my 996 C4S with Fister mufflers sounded. Now that I've had it for a while, I'm getting used to the sound of the turbo. In "sport" mode, it opens up a little bit more and has a nice subtle burble when I let off of the throttle.

I had always fancied a 911, preferred the looks of the 4S to that of the narrow body an bought it effectively to test the water.

Owned a 987 boxster s, a 997 C2S and a 991 boxster S. Just bought myself a 996C4S, a car I've always wanted. I can say , second best looking butt after a 993, abundance of character, hoot to drive and just "individual" compared to the mass of new 991 Carreras out there! Best Porsche Ive owned. Ps not so BLING either.......always a good thing .

Ran across this one as well for sale. Is this too low (lowered 1.5 inches)? Gorgeous car and on the high side of price. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...72468137&Log=0

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Looks like someone already picked it up, or the link is wrong

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oops. fixed it... http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...72468137&Log=0

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Much better and yes that's a nice one

Needs undercarriage inspection to determine if any body work is needed or was done. There was a "clean" C4S here on a carfax and when they checked the bottom end they discovered that the body was definitly repaired and sprayed. Other than that and service records, if all intact, the car is not priced too far up.

Thanks Guys. I was looking for something closer to $30K - I get he has a lot of upgrades - hence the price. We will see.

The 996 C4s this the best Porsche value in today's market. For 25-30k you get one of the best looking modern porches coupled with great performance and handling. I had a 996 turbo, I loved the exhilarating performance, but enjoy driving a NA engine over turbos

Stale thread, it seems, but: Did the OP finally get a C4S? Update us all as to your choice. I, for one have had three C4S': a '96 993; an '02 996; upon returning to the fold after my Dadmobile responsibilities were completed, I waffled among the F Type Jag, the '15 Corvette (sorry; I was weak), and another Porsche. I then narrowed it to a Porsche, and after considering finally getting a Turbo which I'd coveted for...oh, since 1976, I chose to get another C4S. 2003. I have not regretted my choice. It's my DD, except for Home Depot/Lowe's runs. I chose to regard the ticky-tacky plastic fittings (seat hinge covers, seatbelt outlets, soft touch/soft scratch painted parts, etc) as 'features' rather than 'bugs', thus allowing me to replace them in carbon. Not for everyone, but: Certainly right for me. Turbos are faster. 997s might be faster. No doubt, 991s are faster. And yet: I do not race, and I will never, EVER see the terminal velocity of this automobile. While I will probably have Jake Raby rejuvenate my engine after 60k (at 50ish now), I don't lie awake at night wishing I had another 30hp. The best Porsche, like spouses, homes and careers, is the one that gives you the best combination of maximized joy and minimal heartburn. Choose wisely, and enjoy.

Time for some new motor mounts Valkuri! Nice C4S.

Thanks for the motor mount comment. The slightly uneven exhausts indicate this? Yet another thing I'll have replaced no later than my car's extended date night with Jake Raby's outfit. Educate me on this, as I was unaware of the connection. Most appreciated.

It looks like they are drooping a bit, and a little more on the right. It certainly could be that your tips are slightly misaligned, but motor mounts do wear and do need to be replaced as they age. I had Wevo semi-solid mounts (yellow) installed in my C4S and it made a big difference.

Did a little research after your posts. I think you're exactly right. Planning to get a new pair and have them installed (I could probably manage it myself, but 'probably' isn't a term I like to use, when messing with a Porsche). Thank you for your observation.

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EC6E78C9-940A-4489-9FF0-F191E93D6A0B.jpg That color with the red reflector is awesome. Nice car!

A fine looking turbo, Atrox. If I did not have my car: I'd want yours.