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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBottomed out on curb... Lost all oil
Leading reported evidence
Replace sump plate
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
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Read evidence and context
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Suggestion
Why didn't the dealer note the debris in the oil when changing the sump plate?
Leading evidence: 'Replace sump plate' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check with' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I figured it ran too long without oil based on your initial report.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I decided to keep it and got a slightly used 997 engine for $12K here locally.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I hold them to be used for foundations for my engines.
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75 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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Outcome without a verified action link
UPDATE: Well guys yes the oil pan was shot and now the Porsche dealer told me they fixed it, hit the key and heard an awful noise coming from the engine.
2001 996 c2. aero 86k mi. So tonight I was pulling out of a gas station and went down over an obscured curb about 8 inches high. Immediately I felt and heard the engine area hit the curb. I drove a block, stopped and looked for damage but didn't see any. I drove another few minutes and noticed my oil pressure light come on and start to flash and pressure gauge lowering.
So Immediately I shut off the engine and called for a tow as I watched the remaining motor oil drain onto the pavement.
When on the flatbed we looked underside and it looked like possibly the oil pan was damaged missing?? There was some wire with a sensor hanging loose there as well.
I'm deathly afraid of what I might be looking at here?
Any guesses? The engine didn't seize and it appeared that the majority leaked out after I stopped.
It's now at Porsche of Nashville and verdict comes tomorrow or Friday. Any suggestions or ideas what could be going on?
thank you,
Ed
I'm betting you cracked your oil pan. It's bolted on all sides, so it actually being missing would be really odd. Any chance you've got an IMS guardian installed? That would explain the wire coming from it.
sorry to hear this happened so close to the holidays
on the bright side, you may have dodged a bullet here
post up some pics when you can
more importantly, wait for Jake to see the pics and comment
May not even be the pan. Could be just the guardian got "wiped" off.
If you plan to do anymore "off-roading" maybe consider one of these engine protector plates:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Site...ate/ES1483584/
I know how you must feel about this.
Several years back, I ran over a bowling ball sized boulder (dark basalt) as I drove through an underpass at night. I had no chance of missing it by the time I saw it. I was in a BMW 5 series.
It tore a hole in the aluminum oil pan, bent a suspension crosspiece, dented the underside of the car (could see a protrusion in the back seat floorboard), and tore the muffler off. $4K worth of damage.
And like you, I pulled over and got out to see what the damage was, saw oil pouring out onto the ground and quickly reached into the car to shut the engine down.
Hopefully you will get off much easier with your little misfortune here.
When a similar event happened to me 20 years ago or so, I was in a 3 series with my siblings (ages 7-10) in the mountains and it was 26�F outside. I asked myself do I shut off and wait - and freeze to death with the kids - or start rolling downhill with the engine off and only start her up when there is a slight uphill. I chose to roll down. I drove like that for about 5 miles or so with literally no oil in the engine and we didn't have synthetic oil back then. Started her up about 4 or 5 times for brief pushes. We got to a warm restaurant in the middle of nowhere where I called for help. Left the car there and took an oil pan and some oil up there the next day and changed it and brought her home. Interestingly, the engine didn't fall apart for another 4 years even though it had 90K miles on it.
Jake, you're a gentleman. My respects.
If I told you about bottoming a test engine out in the middle of Canada, and driving 200 miles with a hole in the sump, with hardly any loss of oil you'd all call me a liar.
With an M96 engine idling you can drill a 1/4" hole in the sump plate and the engine won't leak but a drop of oil every 5 minutes or so..
Thank you everyone. I knew to come here first for information as when my AOS blew last winter nearly giving me a heart attack watching a plume of smoke trailing behind me
. I feel better and I will post pics from the Porsche garage if I can get in there Y'all are the best. Merry Christmas.
Ed
Good luck with it, ED. Seems like you will be fine. And, as stated above, insurance should cover it, but you may just want to take the hit out-of-pocket for something relatively minor like this.
"If I told you about bottoming a test engine out in the middle of Canada, and driving 200 miles with a hole in the sump, with hardly any loss of oil you'd all call me a liar."
And a fear MONGER-ER as well!!!
"I can help you out after we return on 1/5.. I can sell you a MCD sensor at a reduced cost and we have good used sump plates to bail you out, too."
That's some Holiday cheer for you! Good stuff!
What a terrible feeling when you saw oil draining out. With all the positive comments tendered, I'd say you really were lucky this time. Good for you, fingers crossed.
Liar. Come on...couldnt resist. Sad how these cars have so many failure modes but the one thing you can do like drilling a hole in sump plate and driving the car isnt one of them...
Ok guys... The dealership/ service called and the verdict is a cracked oil pan and the IMS guardian is inoperable. Cost to replace pan and oil change - $750.00. The saw no other damage. Watch those parking lots! Thanks guys for all the input and as always, y'all are spot-on correct!
Merry Christmas
Ed
Make sure they don't charge you for the oil disposal fee - you took care of that yourself!
Merry Christmas - and congrats on something that seemed so bad being almost trivial.
Speaking of oil disposal....... do you live in California? If so did you report the leak to the authorities so they can quarantine the area, dig up any soil within a mile radius, haul it away, treat the soil with oil scrubbing chemicals, return it back to the site of the leak and fine you $1,000,000,000,000.
UPDATE: Well guys yes the oil pan was shot and now the Porsche dealer told me they fixed it, hit the key and heard an awful noise coming from the engine. They found 'debris' in the oil and oil filter. They're saying I need a brand new motor ($27,000) with labor. I nearly passed out. The car is barely worth 17k. The guy told me they 'didn't bother flushing out the motor because they felt it wasn't worth it'. Soooo that said, I flat bedded it to my local guy who fixes these and we will see what he says. He did laugh at the $27k bill though and said 'it figures'. What does it mean to 'flush the motor out?' Im really stressing out now. Oh and yea, The dealer still charged me $700 to do basically nothing..... Any input guys?
Porsche no longer sells brand new engines and haven't since February. They use a Porsche short block and outfit it with your heads and ancillaries.
Your engine can be repaired. I figured it ran too long without oil based on your initial report.
Why didn't the dealer note the debris in the oil when changing the sump plate? If they did find it, why was the engine even started? Only more damage would be done. These people are lost.
I have changed a sump plate on a hot engine, in someone else's shop in another country, using someone else's tools in less than 40 minutes. From the time the car came off the road till the time we were back underway gathering data was 55 minutes. They charged 700.00 for that...
Take it away from there....
Approach with care, flushing will no good if collateral damage has been done. This is where the men are separated from the boys...
Since this damage occurred while driving the vehicle over an obstacle in the road (even though it's a curb), contact your insurance. You should be able to make a claim under your comprehensive coverage.
I've seen others in similar situations; rock in road puncturing oil pan, etc.
Good luck!
Hi Flat 6's. Did you mean can or cannot be repaired?
And like a fool I only carried basic minimum coverage on the car (I know I know, I'm a moron for that) looks like I may have a good parts car on my hands.
Hindsight ugh
Don't part it out, I buy broken cars.. I hold them to be used for foundations for my engines.
But it can probably be repaired. Dealers are not proficient with such practices, so they can't make any money from it. Here we are tooled up and proficient with internal repairs.
I had that happen to me when I came across the border from TJ. I hit a speed bump a little too aggressively and the bump was pretty hard. I stopped and looked under the car and could see no damage so I drove home cautiously between 60-70 with out problems or loss of oil pressure. When I got home I parked in the garage and on the following morning, I went out to the garage and there was a puddle of oil. I guess once the engine cooled allowing the oil to escape
For everyone that bought their car used, you should inspect the pan if you haven't yet for any scrapes and damages. I had a situation where the pan seemed ok from a casual look but under bright flourescent lighting and looking at it closely, I could see micro-cracks. I don't think this would've compromised anything as is but not so sure if it would've weakened the structure in any way during an impact, allowing more damage to occur as a result.
As for the optional factory skid plate, they are better than nothing but far from optimum imo. The first thing that will bend are the tabs that attach it.
Almost.
Since the obstacle was not moving, this is collision.
Had the obstacle been moving and struck, that's under your Comp coverage.
Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist
Yes yes yes yes. And your story to the insurance company has the benefit of being consistent with what actually happened!
Call your insurance company right now. Tell them you hit the object that was not moving, the curb. That's collision.
Nice, didn't really think to pay attention to these details.
So basically if I hear a marbles in a can while I'm driving, I should immediately pull over and jump a curb.
I think minimum ins coverage can be only to cover the damage you cause but not damage to your car. So it will pay for the damage he did to the curb but not the damage caused by the curb.
Just out of curiosity what options are on the car?
That or immediately "forget" e-brake on the boat ramp or drive into deep water.
Alpine003: Hello, I was driving my Porsche through the puddle and it stopped in the middle. Water started rising and engine stopped. I have to file the claim, I am so sorry.
Insurance: Sure thing sir, lets get the paperwork started.
Hey, if you own the car free and clear, common wisdom says to save the money and get liability. Can't fault you there.
Does your homeowners policy have any provisions for damage that occurs on third party private property? I'm grasping at straws for you here...
I hope you can get it sorted! It's a shame that you're having to deal with this.
The wheelman, I will look into it. And yes I owned the car free and clear and that's why I decided to insure it that way. And yes, hindsight is always 2020! It's one of those awful decisions is where I actually "do" have the money to fix it, and that's about it. But it makes me sick to think about how much it costs. I'm really hoping that the local guy here can do me a lot better than the Porsche dealership. I'm sure he will be able to based on the replies that I've read here. Inevitably, it will come down to the question of is it really worth spending the money to fix it compared to the complete value of the car itself? The car had only 86,000 miles on it however, it's still not worth "that" much. More will be revealed. I will keep everyone posted as to what my mechanic says next week!' And again thank you everyone for your insights and input. I'm really grateful for y'all.
The concept is you avoid the additional premium on several cars over many years as well as avoiding the premium bump for making a claim. Self insurance as opposed to "I f'ed up, buy me another'.
You usually will still come out ahead in the end. If not, insurance companies would charge even higher premiums.
Even more so when you have to insure expensive drivers like teenagers. I only insure my kids on cars that I can afford to just walk away from and carry liability only. Which so far has happened once already BTW.
I'm in my later 40s with no tickets in a decade + (knock on wood). To carry full collision on my cars (including my 996) is only about $150 more/year than not having full collision coverage. I consider that a no brainer.
Well after about five months I finally heard back from my mechanic. The Motor cannot be rebuilt and he found a motor for $19,000 . The car is a 2001 911 C2 arrow addition with 80,000 miles on it and very very good condition . My mechanic mentioned wanting to buy it from me possibly. What would be a good asking price for this car? The Porsche dealership wanted $28,000 for a new motor plus labor and it's just not worth it to me unfortunately . Thank you for any insightS
Ed
Not sure where you are but in US a used engine installed should be about $15k all in and not $19k just for the engine. You can check with
http://www.mbmotorsportsrepair.com/items-for-sale.html
Five months to tell you the engine is gone. Then finds an engine that's very expensive for a used car. Then offers to buy your car from you. How much do you trust this mechanic?
The mechanic wants the car for himself. Used engines are under $10K. Labour shouldn't be more than 12hrs. OR the engine is fixable and the mechanic wants it even more. Your car as-is worth less than $10....alot less than 10.
Years ago I had a car with some engine problems. Took it to a shop, and he said it would be about 2K to fix. I gave him the OK. Then after getting things apart, he said he found more stuff, and it would be about 3K. I gave him the OK. Sure enough, a few days later he calls and said he found more stuff, and it would be 4.5K. I told him I wasn't going to pay that much. He then wanted a bunch of money for labor invested, and the motor was in pieces, so I couldn't exactly take it elsewhere very easily. I sold the car to him for $800. As I was getting my stuff out of the trunk, he didn't see me behind the car, and I heard him tell a buddy about the great deal he just got, buying the car. That bastard had been scamming me all along, because it was a rare limited edition version that he wanted for himself.
So, I know first hand that some mechanics will pull that scam if he wants the car. Not saying that is necessarily the case with your car, but the shop's story sounds fishy to me.
$6k for an aero kit roller, maybe $7k if real nice. I think you could still save the car though, probably getting out the door for around $12k with a little luck shopping for a replacement engine yourself and a fair-minded mechanic.
Ed, are you still reading this? I know it really sucks to not know much about mechanics and engines. Can you tell me how this went from running over a curb, dinging your oil pan and knocking the IMS Guardian plug off to a need for a replacement engine? What exactly is wrong with the engine? You have not said why the mechanic says to replace the engine or what was found wrong.
How did we go from..hey...replacement oil pan and you're good to go to a roller? I am just curious as to what was found wrong with the engine...exactly what is wrong. This doesn't make much sense.
I just returned from speaking with him. He said the amount of labor that it would take to diagnose the problem would be very costly and not worth it there was plastic pieces found in the oil pan that were from the engine/cam shaft something or other. I just returned from speaking with him. I must say, other than the engine obviously, the car is in awesome beautiful condition. He's going to get back with me on Thursday with an offer to buy the car. At this point I am researching other options and I thank you guys for all of your insights it really means a lot.
It took him +5 months to open the oil pan? Do yourself a favor, take it someplace else. Even if you gave him the ok to fix it, your car will be a classic before you get it back. A classic 996, so that's a long, long time.
Totally agree with getting it out of there. Call a tow truck immediately!
I lost my engine recently (seized while driving so I know it was toast). I could have gotten $8K as a roller the first day I put it on Craigslist (very clean 2004 C2 with 65K kilometers). I decided to keep it and got a slightly used 997 engine for $12K here locally. Very happy with that decision now! I'm sure you can get a used engine even cheaper in the US. If you really like your 996 it's worth it, IMHO.
I didn't read through the thread in its entirety, not sure if this was brought up. But hitting a curb should qualify for collision and be covered by insurance.
Some plastic in the pan is normal if was never removed before. Get the car away from that shop ASAP.
All you need for a diagnostic is a new oil pan and oil. That's not expensive.
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