997 Shifter in 996 Impressions

Just got finished with the install of the standard 997 Shift kit in my 996. Pretty easy once you get the guts to take everything apart. The alignment tool is pretty useless, but with a DIY picture guide it took about 2 hours as advertised. Glad I didn't have to pay a porsche wrench to do it. Overall Impressions: It's OK. Not the "completely different experience" it's been sold as. The shifter itself is possibly a bit shorter, but can't really tell. The shifts are marginally more crisp vs the stock 996, but not huge difference. The throw is possibly a hair quicker. I got a new 997 shifter for free, so for me yes this was worth it, but I wouldn't drop $250 on the new kit personally. Maybe worth it if you find one used in good shape for around $100. My 996 shifter didn't really bother me in the first place. Maybe a little notchy in 1st when cold so will see if that improves, but overall don't expect the world of this mod. It's worth it if you get a 997 shifter cheap, but if you really want a shorter throw I would skip it and go 997 SSK. I've driven a 997 with SSK and it is much different than stock 996 or 997. I don't think the 997 SSK is necessarily an improvement, but it is different. With the 997 SSK I had trouble anticipating the timing of the shorter throw, which threw my pedal action off. So 997 standard works better for me from that aspect. Check another mod off the done list. Lol.

I felt the same and went to the Porsche Texhequipment Short ****er with an EVOMS shifter linkage upgrade and it gave me the upgraded feel I was looking for.

Try the Numeric shifter if you want a game changing experience.

I am looking for this shifter as well. A friend who did this mod allowed me to feel his shifts, and it felt a lot better than mine. My friend got his for $70 and said that there was a bunch of them when he bought his for that, I am trying to find one around that price range, but I am having a hard time finding it at the price point that I want.

E90Steve's comments are right on target. I've had stock shifter, 997 ssk, B&M ssk, and now the Numeric Racing ssk & cables. All the changes were incremental (a little better each time with a little bigger change to the B&M from 997ssk) until I put the Numeric with the cables in - literally night and day. Pretty amazing really, albeit expensive ( I paid around $900).

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You can usually find them all over ebay used for about $100. Keep checking. Heres one for $135 on ebay

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What about the numeric "Feels" different. If you could describe it, what would it be?

Also out of curiosity, what do these gray rubber bands over the springs do? My 996 shifter did not have these, but the 997 shifter kit assembly did. Picture is not my car just for example.

having had a 987 cayman with factory ssk, i'd say hold off and get something like the numeric, i didn't find what i had to be particularly impressive.

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It is direct, positive, crisp, tight and a lot like a bolt action rifle action.

I went from a sloppy 996 to standard 997 and thought it was fantastic - still think its a very worthy upgrade and great bang for buck. Although now I'm chasing the next best thing which I guess is the numeric. The want for the next best thing never stops... Ugh

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I agree. I found the upgrade to be quite noticeable with respect to the shorter throw. The "feel" however, is unchanged. If you want a really mechanical click-click experience, I think you need to do something other than the 997 upgrade. Very happy I did the 997 upgrade on my car and not dying for something better.

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I'd have to hunt out a really good deal on the numeric as there are other mods that could take priority Although I do want one i'll stick with the 997 for now. 997 GT3 with metal bushings would be another option but essentially its just an upgraded version material wise - AFAIK the throw is the same unless you go 997 SSK. F1 ball bearing is an option but at the price you might as well move on the 997 shifter before hacking into it irreversibly.

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^^This^^...

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I don't think it gets any better than the Numeric - it's really that good, albeit expensive...

I went from the 997 to the Numeric. I actually did not know my car had the 997 shifter in it until I went to install the Numeric. As others say, it is amazing! I did compare the 997 shifter to my buddies 996, and the 997 does feel better, and tighter, but nowhere near what the Numeric feels like. The shifts are like flicking a light switch. If you just want something a bit tighter, the 997 is good value, and a quick install. The Numeric is next level, may almost be overkill for the street, but I track my car so it is way worth it, even if it was 4% of what I paid for the entire car.

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does this mean you're selling the 997 shifter?

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Yes. $125 Shipped.

I drove the car for about an hour today. Maybe my 996 shifter was just in good shape because after some extended seat time I can tell zero difference between the 996 and 997.

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+1 I could not tell the difference between a 996 and 997 shifter when both had stock cables adjusted properly. Now, the 997ssk is a different story great improvement over 996/997 stock shifter. Full disclosure, I just pulled out my 997 ssk and stock cables, I now have a Numeric shifter and Numeric Cables, that is the end game for 6 speed Porsche shifting, but big price tag.

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pm sent

The 997 shifter is a little better - internals are slightly different adding some rigidity. If you are concerned with �slop,� then 997 is better. Then you can add the GT3-like metal bushings from Phenix Engineering to remove more slop. Another option is replacing the internals from Function First.

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They are both good options (F1st) haven't heard of the other brand. From a price perspective I think by the time you factor in a 997 shifter + a refurb kit you're at the price of the Numeric which is the top of the food chain

I currently have an 03' 996 C4S and the shifter is smoother and I prefer it over the 06' 997 C2S I had a few years ago. The 997 was definitely tighter though, where as the 996 feels to have a hair more slop...but its so butter smooth it doesn't bother me much. I didn't enjoy the stock 997 shifter in my '06 so I upgraded to a B&M and was satisfied but not blown away. I haven't lifted the boot to see if my 996 has a stock shifter in it but I think it is. It has the carbon/aluminum **** and handbrake. The throws don't seem very short but they are extremely smooth. It actually surprised me the first time I drove it, was not expecting that to happen.

I put a "Bens" shift kit in mine last year and the difference was very noticeable. Much shorter throw and more precise feeling. I don't know if I'd go so far to say like bolt action rifle (at least a good one), but definitely much shorter and tighter.

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interesting, Matt is your car optioned with XCZ Short shifter ? I've seen this mentioned on a few Turbos

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No my car isn�t optioned with it according to the vin lookup but it also wasn�t optioned with PSE and a previous owner had it added, complete with the console switch. So it�s possible it�s not stock but I�ll have to investigate to confirm. I don�t feel like the throws are very short but I don�t have another 996 here to compare it against. I may have time to take a look tonight.

I’m very happy wth my 997 SSK. Much more enjoyable rowing through the gears. Suits my clutch tempo for downshifts and rev matching. Even more enjoyable when you can find one for sale for $350 or less.

Matt, your comments are interesting as I haven't read of many people preferring the 996 shifter over the 997.

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Yes I was pleasantly surprised the first time I took my new (used) 996 out for a spin. Not expecting it at all...it was strange actually how it felt so smooth. Before I drove it I was reading about the 2nd gear grind thread and wondering if I would have a similar problem or perhaps something else. Luckily it's smooth as silk in all gears. I love it so far. Throws could be a bit shorter, that would be my only complaint but its not bad at all. Maybe my 997 shifter just was a bad example. When I bought the car it only had ~6k miles on it and looked/drove like brand new. I remember taking it apart and trying to adjust the cables or doing anything to help it out some. It was quite notchy at times and not near as smooth as my current 996. Swapping to the B&M did make a nice difference in throws and feel over the stock 997 unit, at least for me.

My 997 ssk for sale https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-marketplace/1068410-997ssk.html

Can the 987 shifter be used as well? Are they the same or different?

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5 speed - no 6 speed - yes

Cayman�s is 997 part number, should be the same as in 911s and boxsters.

Cool. The part number is: 997-424-010-00 pelican say say it’s compatible with: Boxster 987 (2005-Present) 997 (2005-Present) Boxster (2005-2008) Cayman (2006-2008) 997 (2005-2008) 997 Turbo (2005-2008) 997 GT3 (2007-Present)

Interesting thing I found today. I was going to list my OEM 996 shifter on eBay to just get it off my workbench and noticed something about it. My part number is 996 424 010 05. From what I can tell this is the updated part that replaces 996 424 010 04, which was the previous 996 shifter. I'm wondering if the "05" designation is a different part than the "04" which could explain why my 996 shifter actually felt pretty good compared to others. Anyone have clarification on the part #'s?

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I have PET2 i'll check out the revisions tonight If you have a pic of what it looks like we could make comparisons. I've just ditched my 997 for a Numeric Racing shifter, its next level awesome!! Although bang for buck is still 997 as the one downfall of the Numeric is price.

There was one revision: NB. XCZ is the short shifter option

Thanks. Do you know does the "revision" mean the part is any different or is it just a new part number? Like I said my "05" 996 shifter feels pretty much the same as my 997 shifter I installed.

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Unfortunately a revision could be anything, it could be a revision in design which might be why it feels similar. Do you have an image comparison between your updated 996 and your 997? The mechanism looks different on both.

The 997 and 996 "05" look very different. The 996 "04" and 996 "05" look pretty much identical. Many out there complain about the OEM 996 shifter. Mine felt pretty good before the 997 upgrade. Just thought it was interesting that I had the updated "05" part and was trying to make a possible connection between the updated "05" shifter and better feel. Might be throwing darts and it doesn't make much difference to me because I run the 997 now.

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I'd say the revision would be minor compared to the 997 which is a much much better shifter. I also had the updated 05' before I went to the 997 and now numeric. The numeric is completely different again it is much more precise but it wouldn't be for everyone. The 997 is probably the perfect balance before you go to the numeric which is the next level but you also move into the next cost bracket.

Does anyone know how wide the base of the 996 shifter mechanism Is?

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150mm at the widest point.

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thank you!

Having just swapped my 996TT shifter to a 997 GT3 shifter yesterday, I think the easiest way to describe the feeling of the shifting post swap is simply 'the way it should have come from the factory'. Meaning, it's not an overwhelming difference, but the slight reduction in throw and slight improvement in shift firmness is just right, leading to a very OEM like experience that improves the overall driving experience.

Maybe someone can help me understand something - To me, the absolute most important thing, with regards to a great driving experience, is a good steering wheel...unless the car has a manual transmission. In that case, the overall shifting dynamics (precision, feel, etc.) are also the absolute most important thing in addition to the steering wheel. The only things one absolutely has to handle while operating an automobile are the steering wheel and shifter (one does not typically �handle� things with their feet, so pedals are a different topic). For this reason, the vast majority of driving experience comes from steering and shifter feel; if these two things are off, it can totally ruin the whole experience of a car. So what mods, on a car like a 911 that comes as stock so well-sorted, are �money better spent� than the shifter? Why is it that the automotive enthusiast crowd is so obsessed with having a manual transmission but doesn�t seem to really care about shifter feel? Compared to everything else on the car, the shifting experience in a 996 is underwhelming. It�s not awful, like an early 2000s VW, for example. But it definitely needs upgrading to fit the character of the car, in my opinion. I�ve felt the Porsche SSK and it seems to shorten the shifter height and increase shifting effort. That is not a formula for a better shifter. The Numeric shifter seems to be the only one on the market that actually went after producing a shifter that feels (and functions) right , not just a �shorter� throw and increased effort to simulate a �sportier� shift feel. But I see so many people saying this mod is really pricey and that money could be spent on other mods. Like what? What can one possibly do for $1k to this car that will enhance the overall experience of driving a 996 more than a great shift feel? All I�ve done so far about getting my 996 to �should�ve-come-that-way-from-the-factory� is a set of $300 lowering springs and the biggest thing that still bothers me about driving the car is the shifter (and I�m the opposite of bothered by driving this car, so that�s saying something). As much as the springs improved the aesthetics, now that I have them I realize I could�ve put that money toward the shifter first and probably been happier (but it was only $300, so **** it). The first $1k I spend on mods once I�m sure this thing is ready to just be driven and maintained (other than the couple hundred I spent on springs) will be on the shifter and cables from Numeric Racing. Exhaust, coilovers (& other suspension-related components), brakes, seats, interior surface materials, and the stereo (infotainment in general) could all be improved to enhance the overall experience of this car. But to get any of those things any better than what came from the factory would cost thousands. For $1k, one can completely transform one of the most fundamental actions of operating the vehicle for the better. So, I ask again: what could be purchased for the same money as the Numeric shifter that would make a night and day difference in experiencing the 996?

I don't disagree with your logic, but I'd have to drive a car with Numeric beforehand to justify the cost. The various 997 shifter upgrades for the price are an easy buy for most ranging from $100-~$300 and are all an upgrade from stock IMO. The numeric may be the best and possibly by your logic worthy of the $$$ investment. Hard to fork over the money just to try it out, when ultimately it is all personal preference. If you gave me 1k to spend on a 996 to improve/change the driving experience (Assuming all maintenance is up to date), I would do the following: Semi Solid Engine Mounts: $200 SSK 996 Factory Shifter: $300 Muffler Replacement or Gundo Hack: $500 For $40 I would throw on the Intake Elbow just for sound. This would significantly change the experience from the drivers seat. Everything else (assuming your suspension is 100% maintained, engine is 100% maintained, brakes 100% maintained) is perfectly fine.

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$1k is definitely a high price to pay for a trial run without having any way of knowing how it�ll perform/feel, for sure. But I haven�t read a single review of that shifter, for any car it�s been installed onto, being just a slight improvement over any other shifter to which the Numeric unit is being compared. Every review I�ve read has said the difference is night and day. If it�s as good as all those reviews I�ve read says it is, then it�s most definitely worth every bit of $1k. As for the other mods you mentioned, including the Porsche replacement shifter options, none of those would provide a night and day difference to the experience, separately or even collectively, in my opinion. Maybe for some people the exhaust hack makes a big difference, I suppose. But not for me. Mods like the intake elbow and Gundo Hack don�t really appeal to me. Sound is very important, but I don�t think those mods are worth changing/modifying the stock equipment, especially when irreversible.

For whatever reason, people who invest to have a product installed on their car always tend to think it's the best. I'm not saying it isn't, but some of it might be people justifying spending 1k on it. Might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I haven't personally driven it to compare. I have gone from 996, to 997, to 997 SSK and can say they all IMO have an incremental improvement (997 standard only very small improvement). However I will say now that I'm completely used to the 997 SSK it feels simply "normal" to me now. If I were to change to numeric I would probably be in awe just for the fact it feels different at this point.

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Also your previous post...Keep your eye on the Numeric website - they run sales on both the shifters and cables fairly often. I paid around $800 for my whole setup (the shifter was a "refurb" with full warantee). It's definitely a night and day difference.

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I have read multiple reviews of people who tried the 997 SSK, the 997.2 GT3, and Numeric Racing shifters and said that the NR shifter was night and day different. Not one person has said, �meh, it�s a little better, I guess.� I seriously doubt these guys were saying it to cover up their shame for having foolishly spent so much money on such a tiny improvement. I�m certain that I would�ve seen one example by now of someone who wasn�t floored by how impressive the NR shifter is. I won�t know for sure until I get one myself, but I�ll make this promise now: if it�s not that much of a difference to justify the price, I will have no problem saying so. Thank you for the heads up! I�ve read rumors of group buys and discounts, so I�m keeping an eye on it. I had not, however, been informed of a refurb w/warranty option. That would definitely be worth $200 off retail.

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Like I said, not disagreeing with you. Might be the best thing out there, in fact probably is. Would have to try it to know for sure though. However I'm discovering there are a few different kinds of Porsche owners in regards to products. You have those who think it's the best because it costs the most, those who know it's the best because they've tried everything else and have landed on the best solution, those who think it's the best because it's what they've bought, and those who think it's the best because it's what they've read on the forums is the best.

The Numeric shifter alone isn't $1000. You don't need the numeric cables to get the benefits. I have a Numeric and love it, so I'm biased. I've tried a bunch of others and am one of the people that says it is night and day different. But, (much to my surprise) the Numeric has its detractors. If you poke around on the GT2/GT3 forum you'll see some people think it is junk and swear by the 996 Cup shifter. If you want to see if Numeric has any returns, call or email (Faith?). They've always been super responsive and helpful when I've reached out to them. They are active on Rennlist too... My top driver centric upgrades (assuming the car is already mechanically sound and maintenance up to date): 1) Numeric Shifter 2) Function first shift riser console delete (NLA) 3) Rennline adjustable accelerator pedal 4) OEM GT3 steering wheel 5) Rennline aluminum pedal covers. Adding this stuff to the 996 takes the car to the next level of driving enjoyment.

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Then you have the vocal people who have never tried a product and are comfortable expressing opinions without ever having touched or used it. Or repeating what they've read but never experienced. It's an easy trap to fall into, I've done it myself. However, I try my best to stick with giving input on products I've tried or used.

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I have tried a lot of shifters on other cars with cables and the bushings on the cables could make or break shifter feel and precision, so I assumed the full effect couldn�t be achieved without both shifter and cables. I just figured I would do it all at once. But maybe I should start with the shifter first in this case as it is a completely new platform for me.

I can't say if it is better with the Numeric cables, I still have a set on the shelf waiting for the '02 to be on the lift to install them, hopefully I'll get around to it before spring. I can say that even with original equipment stock cables, the shifter alone is a night and day difference from any of the other shifters and SSKs I've used on either of my 996'.

I may be in the vast minority but I prefer the standard shift length to a SSK. I have a 997 shifter in my 996 and once up to temp works great. I�ve had a SSK in other cars and test drove a C4S with a short shifter. Seemed unnecessarily tight and not all that positive. I feel you get more leverage with a slightly longer throw, plus the shifter is taller and closer to your hand. Then again I haven�t tried the Numeric so maybe I am missing out.

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I agree with you on the shift length. I have the 997 shifter and feel that the length fits the steering, braking and pedal feel. I have tried the SSK in another 996 and it just did not fit the overall vehicle dynamics (for me). Of course the new 997 shifter was much better than my 16 year old 996 shifter. However, now I am also searching for better shifter feel with the 997 shifter. I am trying the full FF approach (trans inserts, motor mounts and metal shifter bushings). Will report back in the spring...

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In my case, it wasn't the shift throw so much as the mushy/rubbery feel and gear engagement. The 997 shiftter and the B&M ssk were incrementally "better" (more positive gear engagement) than the stock 996 shifter but still had their shortcomings (very stiff feel especially when cold - once the tranny was warmed up shifting was actually very nice). The Numeric shifter (and cables) are in another league entirely - cold or warm. I've also got new motor mounts and the FF trans mount insert (done way before the Numeric). * I initially installed the Numeric shifter with the stock cables, and it was still MUCH better than the other shifters. The cables made it a little easier/smoother than the stock cables as they're a larger/heavier cable (not sure of the exact size difference but they are substantially larger). Good luck with your testing...

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Excellent info and thanks for sharing. Really wish we could get all options together for a driving test. If we can do it in Michigan, the beer is on me!

One thing I personally notice is the top of the shifter matters a lot. My old rubber-sleeved OEM topper was flexing too much. Along with the throw of OEM mechanism, I disliked the whole setup. I put a 997 SSK on (keeping stock cables) and still experienced too much slop. After I installed an aftermarket topper I liked, the whole shifting package was a great deal better. I was no longer missing quick 2 to 3 upshifts. For me, a Numeric might be an option later on down the road, if my driving skills and performance needs get to a level I can benefit from a full competition-like rig, vis-a-vis the cost and NVH trade off. Bottom line: Don’t forget where the hand sits at the top of the lever.

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I am of the same mind: the throw is just fine, it�s the lack of precision that�s bothersome. That�s the impression I�d been given from the other reports I�ve read/heard. It makes me feel a lot more confident in the idea of installing both the shifter and cables at the same time, since I�m ultimately going to do both anyway in all likelihood. It also makes me look forward to it even more!

A brand new/unused B&M shifter popped up on CL for $150.00 and it's rare to see anything here in Hawaii like that. So, my question is how many of you have the B&M (pro's/con's)? It sure looks well made... Sorry for the side track.

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C4S has had one since 2003 they are very short. Also have the 997 gt3 shifter in my Turbo and it doesn't feel short at all. I am used to driving both prefer the B&M since it is shorter and it seems much more stiffer then the GT3 shifter.

The B&M was good - better than stock 997...

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[img=center]https://images.craigslist.org/00k0k_lSrSMY8byEM_600x450.jpg[/img] Thanks Jumper. Does this look complete?

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Don't really know for sure it looks like it is but I am assuming there is sleeve in the blue piece.

Buying a B&M is throwing good money after bad. Yes, I had one and sold it to a rennlister for a song with full disclosure. They�re notchy and not any smoother. If you�re serious about improving the shifting, save your money and get something better. Function First if you�re already rocking a 997 shift assembly, or a Numeric if it�s in your budget.

I had the B&M SSK when I purchased my 996. I've since upgraded to the Numeric Racing shifter and cables. It truly is a night and day difference. This shifter is great, but doesn't resolve the hang up on the gate going from 2nd into 3rd. Additionally, the cables add a ton of NVH. Since there are no dampers in the cables; think of it as the string between two cups. It transmits a lot of transmission noise. That being said, I do like the improved shifting feeling. I drove a 2017 Manual Jetta for a week and then drove my car again. It was refreshing to actually feel what was happening in the car again. The numeric set up is the polar opposite of numb, and I would definitely say it isn't for everyone. The shifter alone is probably the best way to go. Only go with cables if your 996 is more of a toy for you or you don't mind additional NVH.

Thanks for the feedback. DD that will never see a track but I do have a nice twisty up and down (short) commute to and from work.

I was debating between 997.2 GT3 shifter & the numeric about 6 months ago. I ended up going with the 997.2 GT3 after getting input from this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...ift-kit-2.html

Just completed a swap of a 996 stock shifter for a stock 997. I will say that the shifts are more defined, mechanically speaking, and provide better tactile feedback. If shifts are shorter, they seem only modestly so. Like many others, I think if you find one of these used for a fair price, as I did, it represents a worthwhile improvement provided you can do the install yourself. my 2 cents, ymmv. cheers!

I've had the chance to drive my car a few more times since completing my swap to the 997 GT3 shifter and just have to say that I do still notice the differences in shifting compared to stock, which obviously my memory will gradually forget in time. It's a very pleasant and very OEM feeling, and I have less trouble slotting into first gear now from neutral at stop lights, something that did foil me a few times with the OEM 996 shifter occasionally. Overall it's a welcome improvement, and as I mentioned before I think the overall feel for me is more 'this is how the car should have been' as compared to a huge difference from stock. I doubt I'll change my shifter again though, as it feels 'just right' to me. Having owned setups in the past (other platforms) that were more aggressive, I know there is a tipping point where you can take things too far and ruin some of the pleasure of driving, and this shifter certainly doesn't do that.

i recently installed the 997 shifter and **** in my 996 turbo. i've read tons of threads about the swap hoping it would solve my notchy, generally "$hitty" shifting but i feel that there has been only a 20% improvement. i noticed that the angle of the shifter is not 100% vertical and that it seems to lean to the right 10 degrees or so. it's more upright when it's in first gear has anybody else experienced this? i had my shop do the install because i didn't feel like dealing with it at the time, and they used the alignment widget. any feedback is appreciated!

They installed it incorrectly/poorly, I just did it and got to do it twice since I was not paying attention and had the same problem. Bring it back.

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I had similar experience. I have been getting incremental upgrades for each thing I did. The shifter leans towards the driver about 10-20 degrees. First, I did the 997 shifter and it improved my shifting. Second, I replaced the 997 shifter with the Ben's short shifter and it also improved my shifting. I still had some slop, so I pulled it out and added some washers between the shift mechanism, and that improved the feel of the stick tremendously. I then changing my tranny fluid, which also improved the shifting some. One of my biggest improvements came from changing my rear motor mounts. My motor mounts were absolutely shot, almost surprised my engine didnt fall out. That tightened up the shift, and it felt a lot more aligned. Next on my to-do list is the Tranny mount. I also have new shifter cables I am debating if I should install or not.

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see, my shifter leans AWAY from me i've already done the trans fluid and the 997 trans mount is going in next week with TS motor mounts my biggest concern at the moment is the leaning shifter. does it indicate that something is off? does the 996 alignment tool need to be used even though it is a 997 shifter?

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I just rechecked mine, and it is dead center. I think the last time I did it, I managed to get it right eyeballing it. The alignment tool didn't work for mine. I think the alignment tool was trying to get it to lean to one side but I decided to put it in center. After I fixed the alignment the last time, it massively improved my shifting.

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hmm. good to know. thank you!

When I had my Numeric installed, my shifter was canted towards me when I got it back. I went back and talked to my mechanic, he said the cables were actually a little too long (vs what he removed and the length that was required). He called Numeric and they told him that the made them that length so that they would work with a shifter riser as well as without one. He then set about distributing the extra slack so that the cables were the “happiest” and the shifting was the best. He told me he would be happy to adjust the shifter straight up and down but that it might not shift as perfectly. I had him do it, it may have set it back by a degree but the improvement was still off the charts good. Couldn’t believe what a difference the mod made.