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YOUR RESEARCHChopping stock springs
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Check end of this thread where you touch
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Good thing I checked the end of this thread where you touch on reality.
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I recently installed Bilsten stock replacement shocks on my 911 and am really happy with the ride for street use.
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Having installed a few suspensions and driving on the track for about 20 years, I just think it is a bad idea.
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(or you can buy some used H&R's for about $200 and do it the "right" way)
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Well, the roads here are very bad in general, and I used those springs on my last Porsche and hated how harsh it was.
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I'm not too familiar with Porsche suspensions, but lowering springs have a stiffer spring rate to compensate for the lower ride height, cutting a coil will just cause you to hit your bump-stops much easier and isn't really recommended for any car...
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Not a biggie for sure if you miss the best setup, but would be hard to get the same results that the Porsche engineers get with all the testing they do.
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I recently installed Bilsten stock replacement shocks on my 911 and am really happy with the ride for street use. I would however like to drop the car about 1/2 inch. Anyone know if it's possible to "chop" the stock springs to achieve my desired stance? Were probably talking 1/2 a coil or less.
U know you can get the H&R springs that will give you the desired effect for less than $400 right? I'm not too familiar with Porsche suspensions, but lowering springs have a stiffer spring rate to compensate for the lower ride height, cutting a coil will just cause you to hit your bump-stops much easier and isn't really recommended for any car... but thats just my opinion.....
Well, the roads here are very bad in general, and I used those springs on my last Porsche and hated how harsh it was. I want to maintain the feel I currently have with the oem Bilsten shocks and stock springs. My tire clearance will still be good with the current setup minus 1/2 inch.
If I cut 1/2 inch off of each stock spring it will sit perfectly, but I wonder if anyone here has done this succesfully.
WOW. Please no this is a really bad idea on a lot of levels. Do it right and swap out for a correct part. Nobody here will have done that (i hope) so you will not get any real world experiences.
Okay - technically when you cut springs you increase stiffness (which may or may not work with the current dampening rate of your shocks) and reduce the distance to the bump stops so have a greater chance of bottoming out. Also, with the attendant heat you add into the spring with the process of cutting you run the risk of making the metal weaker/brittle at that point. Also, you need to get the angle correct on the cut so that it mates with the top mount properly. Having installed a few suspensions and driving on the track for about 20 years, I just think it is a bad idea. Ever see a honda go bouncing down the road? Cut springs...
<chiming in>
hey... I have a complete front and rear set up with springs and everything... I will sell it to you for $50 (plus shipping) - chop those... if you like it leave it, if not... throw it away!!
Tim, surely you've done this mod to the Honda by now. Throw the guy a life line.....
Eggo, if you do this (I'd recommend not) please post up some pics....
A coil spring is like a torsion spring, in that by varying its length it will become weaker or stiffer. Shortening a coil spring will increase the rate of resistance. Building a fixture and putting the spring in press, heating a portion of the coil till red and compressing the spring enough to reduce the length at full extension may do it. Be prepared to reduce the bump stops and check for coil bind at max compression. Also take this as an experimental attempt to gain what you are after with a cheap and dirty method, realizing the integrety of the spring may be affected.
I had to check to make sure I was not on a J-body or a neon forum when I saw this...
You drive a 996 and you are talking about cutting springs?
Your kidding right?
Do not cut the srpings... on any car..... ever.......
The end result is just another POS safety issue laden car drivng down the road swirving into my lane. Me no likey.
i agree. you are compromising the integrity and design of a safe and proper spring. If you want a drop, buy the proper ones. Now if you are a machine shop that makes/designs these, then go ahead and do it if you are experienced.
For a stiffer spring w/o bumpstops i always believed that you needed a thicker spring, but i may be wrong.
How do you figure this? the KG Rate of a Spring is set by the thickeness of the Coil... just because you cut the spring it will not make it stiffer.... Cutting it does not make the coil thicker now does it... unless its a muscle like a *****
Read the thread that I linked you to earlier here. Thickness is not the only element. There is the composition of the metal, the density, the way in which it is coiled, whether it is linear/progressive, etc.
Cutting the spring takes away coils or parts of coils. Each coil has a certain amount of "soft" give as you compress it.
Try this get your 3 beam cannabis scale out. Find a pen spring and measure the force it takes to compress it 1/4". Then cut off a coil and check it again.
To get the same travel on a cut spring you are moving the remaining coils farther into the stiffer part of their travel.
We lowered a Bug-eye Sprite front end by cutting the springs we were surprised that it made the ride much firmer.
Marc,
Thank You for the song. You didn't have to go to War on us!
You'd also lose that nice ride you got with the new shocks. When the car is lowered this way, it will eat up some of the available shock travel. That first bit of travel in a gas shock is the most compliant. Because gas has a natural rising spring rate, it gets firmer as it's compressed.
So, basically, in addition to the problems cited above, you'll lose the benefit that you started out wanting in the first place.
My vote is with those who say that shocks and springs should be matched. In all likelihood, a proper setup will give you a better ride than what you're contemplating anyway.
yep, only on the Porsche forum do you hear them scream "OMG YOU CANNOT DO IT" in the meanwhile the real world moves along. The only real problem is the trial and error of cutting small amounts of coil and the labor of reinstallation to get the proper height you want. I'd recommend 1/8 of a coil turn or less per initial cut.
If you can document the drop per coil cut it would be super useful information to the forums.
Good thing I checked the end of this thread where you touch on reality.
Since the spring compresses cutting a half inch off will end up being more than a 1/2" drop. This is besides being the wrong thing to do with a 911 that has tight enough tolerences already.
How do you cut these (especially the rears) and make them work as intended?
E-bay is littered with ads for Eibach, H&R, and other 996 springs for under $300 bones. This would be a much better way to go for hardly any money IMHO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EIBAC...Q5fAccessories
Ahhh, you people are all **** - how low is too low? (Your too low when you start forest fires??)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzTMo...eature=related
Then there is the questionable concept of less (no shock oil?) is more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Kw5jiwhv4
Cutting a spring will increase the stiffness, see my post #19. Imagine a torsion bar suspension. A long bar is held fixed at one end and the other is attached to a movable link, A-arm, etc. Usually one would increase the diameter to increase the spring rate, another way is to shorten the overall length and keep it the same diameter. I believe the spring rates are progressive, that is, the more the rod twists the resistance continues to increase as well. The overall length can contribute to how linear and how much travel the spring will have.
Another good example of this is adjustable anti-sway bars on our cars. I'm thinking of the 3 hole adjustable type. The bar is just a torsion spring really. Mounting it so the overall length is the longest yields the softest ride, conversly the shortest length the firmest. The diameter is constant, the difference in lengths makes the difference in resistance.
Use the same spring steel rod of the same diameter, one is 6' long, one is 5' long. Roll both lengths into coils 3" in diameter. The shorter coil will be significantly stiffer than the longer.
Plainly, the answer is you don't. Now if your talking about a 73 Plymouth duster, well then yeah you can cut the springs and make it into a bigger POS.
The OP mentioned that he saw Chip Foose cutting springs on Overhaulin. Most likely the car was late 60s to early 70s muscle that did not have a very advanced suspension system. Hell, it most likely had leaf springs in the back.
Actually, I think you mean the front as the back is the standard spring. Looks like you have a little bit to cut off the top - 1/4 turn and maybe some off the bottom another 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Either way looks to be more than enough for a drop.
I do agree it is much easier to just buy what you want for springs these days, but if you are more adventurous it sure looks doable to me.
the problem you will prob have is, the ends of the spring are designed as suck to sit and rest for a safe fit/ride. I would think that you would have to bend and chop $20 of the spring to get it close to right.
The openings a the top and bottom of the spring need to be a certain width to fit properly. I don't think this would be safe to do on a dd. If it's going on a track, i wouldn't trust modified springs.
Don't know the phisics of why other than the linked posts which seem logical enough. I can tell you from real world experience of having lowered many Silverado and other trucks from the 80s, 90s to current ones, cutting springs makes em stiffer for sure. The real trick is matching shock valve rate with spring rate. Without the shock/spirng dynos (i think they are called) to measure it is guess work for sure.
Not a biggie for sure if you miss the best setup, but would be hard to get the same results that the Porsche engineers get with all the testing they do. For fifty bucks why not take Ivangenes springs giver a go and post up the reults. At the end of the day it is just a car. Your car. Do what you want. BTW, you don't have to heat the bejeezus out of the springs to cut em.
I toyed with the idea of chopping springs. It's old school.
Another old school trick was to heat them up and collapse them to the length you wanted. They may lose tensil (sp) strength and become brittle and break. (I heard of someone welding on the little step on a Cessna 172 spring landing gear that eventually broke, OMG)
But, old school again, you can heat them up with an electric welder compress them to the height you want. If you do do it, let us know.
(or you can buy some used H&R's for about $200 and do it the "right" way)
Well my issue is that I only want about 1/2" drop, and all the spring kits lower over 1", which leaves me no option other than fully adjustable coil-overs. $$$
I thinking about doing this same exact thing. I have GMG springs. They set too low and too soft compared to stock for my taste in ride quality and firmness. they are softer than stock springs due to progressive rate. see side by side.
I now wonder if cutting 1/4 a coil front and half a coil in the rear will give the car a nice 1/2 drop with proper stiffens very close to stock.
Not much middle ground with this method, very hard to get the height correct, and no going back. Cutting a small section at a time at the top of the spring wold be better. 1/2 coil or so isn�t going to affect the spring rate much, although the spring rate won�t go down. 1/2� is acceptable to try, Lots of on and off, if you cut too much it�s not going back on.
