Blame Auto Trader for the 996 Prices

While looking for a replacement P-car, saw this warning on Autotrader; I lmao at this because it reminded me so much of the recent posts here. I cant believe even the staff at Auto Trader has piled on actually warning you about buying used 996's on their site. Interesting they would do that but its good for the buyers market I suppose.

Thanks to you

Again, nothing from Auto trader post is false. The 996s can be had for four digits right now. The price of the engine replacement is what is pushing the prices down and will continue doing so. Right now, 996s entire value is in the ENGINE. If the car is running, it is worth $15-20k. The moment engine clunks, it is worth $4-5k.

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Who knew KK was a writer for Autotrader?

KK, I really don't know why you're still here. You no longer have a 996 yet you still continue bashing the car on here. Are you still that bitter, or are you secretly a woman? Females are the ones that usually can't let go of grudges and turn bitter about things. It's ironic that a guy so vocal against the 996 is the same guy that never had a failure. If anything Cuda at least had a broken motor to justify it. Go find some other forum to pollute.

Well Alpy, I think many have stayed here between selling and buying. In fact, I got so much info from the forum about my last P-car, I continue to be a paying member. Never said I wouldnt buy another 996 but it probably wont be a M96 NA whatever it is. Posting an interesting item from the number one online auto selling business in the world is hardly pollution.

I looked on autotrader and could not find anything.

OK found the article. I think you are taking things a little out of context. This is what they said about some other ones. 1970s-era 911s had a design flaw in their 2.7-liter engines, which saw shorter life spans and early rebuilds. That period led to the SC model's production from 1978 to 1983, which also had some weak spots in engine design, though those were more easily remedied by aftermarket fixes. Porsche 964s had a few problem spots (including leaky engine seals) The 993 period is beloved for its clean lines and the peak of air-cooled technology, while its follow-up, the 996, hasn't seen much love from collectors -- and therefore makes it a solid choice for more casual use, though it's highly recommended to have the engine checked out by a Porsche specialist . And while they are currently trading hands at surprisingly low prices (considering their high starting MSRP), 997-era 911s promise a high bang-for-buck ratio.

**** off, KK.

I don't know about others, but I bought my 996 for the pure enjoyment of driving it knowing the pseudo-bad statistics. I never planned it to be an investment. If the engine goes - God forbid - I'll be bummed for sure, but no regrets!

KK, I gotta ask. This is my last post after a 60 hour shift and I am tired, so take it with a grain of salt. First my statement of trying to be a nice guy. KK you have posted some helpful posts and I think over time we have bonded somewhat, but... Do you do it on purpose or do you really not have a clue?

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On purpose, and he always has. Guys like KK are just looking to rattle cages. I just hope he doesn't buy a 997 or the value of my car will fall faster than my autographed RG3 jersey.

My 2 cents: I'm new to the 996 world, three years without a sports car since selling my only Porsche (928), which I bought because it was cool and not highly valued thus making it affordable. I see the 996 as the same undervalued great car with the same potential for disaster that the 928 had. I've read tons of the argument and decided to buy a 2003 C4S with just under 100,000 miles and the original IMS bearing in it. It appears to be in good condition and comes from an owner that fixed everything immediately keeping records of service including had regular oil analysis done. Total cost including flight out to buy and drive home- just under $24,000 It might go boom but most of them don't. And most that don't aren't talked about on the Internet...or at least their story isn't proportionately weighted in the 'realm of worry' that can thrive in a tech forum digital universe. I can't wait to take delivery and I will not rush out to replace the IMS bearing, and yes I will retrofit it with the best option available if the tranny ever comes down for any reason or any warning signs appear. Seems like a logical thing to do, just like putting the 'bad reputation' in proper perspective and buying the car is logical to do. Great car, low price, manageable risk. What's not to love?

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Take a peek. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...much-wing.html Post #6 is classic KK

Troll behavior is going on a forum about a specific thing and trashing that very thing. The reaction is some kind of affirmation for the troll. It's somewhere on the continuum between spraying graffiti tags and cutting oneself. Don't feed the trolls.

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I saw that thread. No one has taken the bait yet. It's time for a lifetime ban. Seriously.

I'd like to say he's harmless, but obviously he is not. Any newbie or google searcher will have no idea that he has more posts in the 996 forum than miles on a 996 and might buy into his fairly ridiculous viewpoints on the 996. Personally, I think he's just pissed he sold his 4S too cheaply and wishes he had it back, M96 and all... He convinced himself it was 'doomed' and dumped it cheap (we used to call it believing your own bullsh*t)

I just think he's a douch!!! BTW I love my 996 as does everyone that rides in it or sees it!!

I'm in the market for a 996 and the reason being its a beautiful porsche. my budget puts me in the 996 turbo up to an 07, but even with the financial ability I can't justify buying anything other than the 996. So those of you that already have one I completely understand why. With that being said I wonder how many people that post here actually own a 996 or a porsche for that matter. Wouldn't be surprised if there are a few pimple faced kids who own one on a video game and balance posting here between that and tuba practice.

Expensive, exploding engines are the sole reason for for 996 prices. I do find it funny they omit the valve guide issues common to most of the air cooled line. I guess that isn't as bad as a complete failures, nor as expensive to repair but proof they are all flawed. The 996 lotto is real, even if it is only a few out of every hundred cars. I told my wife a used replacement engine would run $10k, she told me she would cry... I think most folks sell out to something safer at that point. That makes for a small market made up of educated risk takers seeking the 911 thrill on a budget, which describes the 996, right up until you hit that lotto. I have been debating this with myself for a few weeks. I realized I already take that size risk with a freaking snowmobile. My $10k toy has a 10-15% failure rate and in most cases less ultimate engine life than other choices. Replacement engines run half the value of the machine. Due to light weight and excellent handling, lots of us go that route making this model the best seller. So I must be crazy to consider the 996, which also renders itself worthless if it blows, and will probably always have diminished market value do to this fact. The cool toys always have a price, the price on the 996 is the risk, which is automatically deducted by the market. Pretty sure autotrader had nothing to do with it

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That's very cynical Here's the proof I've got one.

Jalopnik has jumped on the bandwagon

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Hey it's not a write off at the point of an engine failure. It's an opportunity to build an even better supercar with a LS motor conversion!!!

Who cares what the prices are unless you're buying or selling, they're fantastic cars that are great value!! I also get really tired of the air cooled ******* chiming in as well-- if Porsche had kept building 993's instead of 996's and Boxsters they's have gone out of business FFS!!

I don't care what Auto Trader says or any other trader for that matter. I got the deal of the century as did all of us 996 runners. I disregard the 'catastrophic failure' as just a MAYBE. A better chance of me being struck by lightening. Killed as I cross a junction by another driver. Or falling down stairs and braking my neck. I still got the Deal of the Century. My car is much better in every way than any earlier 911. Yes I know the earlier ones are 'air cooled' but that makes them no better than mine. In the correct hands, mine can whack the **** of anything earlier. A collectors car make them no better in my eyes. My car can do everything I want it to do and more if I push it to the limit. (Which I prefer not to do). It starts on first turnover EVERY TIME over the past almost 28000 miles. Never missed a beat. I GOT THE DEAL OF THE CENTURY and I would like the rub that fact into the noses of anyone who thinks differently. OH and if my engine explodes then I will have a new engine put in it. I couldn't buy another better car for $20000. It's a 20 to 1 shot it will never explode. I love those odds. I drive a 911 for Christs sake. NO OTHER CAR... A Porsche 911.. DYU HEAR>>>? Sometimes I hardly believe what I hear myself..hahahaha.

having driven the air cooled cars I came to a simple conclusion, it is basically crap, yeah it is a beautiful car and the engine note is cool and the atmosphere in it is what it needs to be, but only to drive it max once a week in everyday use it is crap. the 996 onwards cars can be enjoyed every day in every weather etc. the noise and pedal position is what was killing me inside the aircooled car, as well as the cockpit. I like them don't get me wrong, but as a piece of art, not an everyday enjoyment.

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Omg. That's true. So sad.

Eh??? What's that?....

You guys should band together & slowly infiltrate the various GT3 boards & post about coolant fittings, clutches, crank dampers, etc... repeatedly, until its second nature to bring up one of the 'fatal flaws' in those cars as soon as someone posts they're considering buying one. I'd like one but can't swing the price... yet! I hear the 991 crowd likes talking about electrical issues too

Price out an air-cooled engine rebuild and it will make your jaw drop... even on an engine that hasn't had a 'catastrophic' failure. ...or the $3,000 it will cost to have a shop pin the coolant hoses on a Turbo with the 'bulletproof' Mezger engine. ...or the cost to put a decent air conditioning system on a SC.

I bought my 996 because every option I was dreaming for, were there, except the headlights, I was in the market looking for a 997 at first, I did not research any forum before to take my decision, but thinking hard now, for a Porsche newbie, if I was reading this forum first, that would scare me to choose a 996 or an earlier 997 which was my original plan and I would end it up buying a new Subaru BR-Z. Now 5 months of ownership and 3000 miles later this has been my best decision so far if I milk 3 years or 15000 miles which ever come first it was money well spend!

Interesting that you mention the BRZ. . Before I bought my 996, I wrestled with this for awhile: Do I buy a brand new BRZ, full warranty, etc.? Or do I buy a 996 with no guarantees of any sort. Still glad I went with the 996, event though my engine blew. On my death-bed, I wouldn't think back on the time I spent with a BRZ, but I will think back to the 996 days.

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I have tried the new "lesser" car over that last 18 months or so. I bought a new GTI because it was cheap, fast and frugal. It has delivered but, still remains much less satisfying to drive than the 15 year old 911 I am looking to replace it with. We are now willing to give up some economy and utility for the superior driving experience the Porsche offers. I can not imagine the BRZ even meets the GTI level of fun, save the rear drive, so it is probably very safe to conclude that you would not have loved it. Just like my GTI is now on the block, the BRZ may have served its purpose but I doubt it is even capable of the soul stirring the 911 provides every day.

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I don't own a 996, yet, but I might. I mentioned the same issue to my wife yesterday, while we were walking home yesterday morning after a looksee at a couple of 1999 996s sitting in a local used lot owned by a guy I know. One of her clients who owns a 2004 40th anniversery car warned her too. Thing is, it has been nearly 25 years since I have owned a Porsche. Last one was a 1977 911S which, as we all know, was a major problem child. I got it at around 10 years old at the bottom of the depreceation cycle. Prior to that was a 1970 911T Targa that was also purchased at the bottom of the depreciation cycle, and that 2.2 engine lost compression in a couple cylinders in the first month of ownership. I lovingly restored that car and sold it for a whopping $6500 (add a zero for likely value today). While I am somewhat stunned that 996 prices are as low as they are, I also believe they are perhaps one of the biggest sports car bargains I can recall in recent time. In my adult lifetime I have seen the $2-3k solid 356s, sub-$10k 911s, even the $14k '57 Speedster I wanted so badly to buy in the 1980s, never mind the sub-$5k Ferraris of the 1960s. Hard to say where the 996 will wind up over the years, but considoring that every single vintage of older 911 (no matter how bad, and the 1975-1977 US cars were really bad) is now worth more than it cost new one has to think that despite large sales numbers that clean examples may rebound someday and the opportunity for another bargain on a great Porsche sportscar will evaporate. I do not see the 996 going down the path of the 928 long-term because it is a 911. On our walk we reflected back to the unveiling we witness at Monterey Historics in 1998, and yeah, we want one. It is a lotto, and we understand the risks. Can we afford the risk? Probably not. Will that stop us from taking advantage of this opportunity? Time will tell and memebrs of this forum will be among the first to know.

Do it. Do it now.

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Currently in negotiations....

One year ago I purchased my '03 C2 with 124K miles. It was a PP sale but he had the car less than a year with no documentation. PPI came back very clean mechanically but had a marginal respray at some point that we think was cosmetic, car does not present any signs of prior accidents. Now at 139K miles with what appears to be the original clutch, RMS, and IMSB. Purchase price was $16K cash deal and I have added $2.5K more for suspension and brakes. Clutch is starting to complain a bit so another $4K soon for that and a couple other items. All told I think folks with new cars and car payments have probably lost that much, or more, in depreciation alone.

I was looking at 991's a while back. New $100,000-110,000, 2 years old and dealer selling for $70-75K. That means the guy who traded it in lost $40K+, and if they leased it forget about it. Just saw them saying $1500/month with 5,000 miles a year is a good deal. My car could blow again tomorrow and I could sell the frame for a roller and be in better financial shape. And I enjoy my 996 a lot more.

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That's the piece that the so called "experts" (and trolls like KK) seem to forget. When I bought my first Porsche, a 1970 911T in 2003, the saying was that every Porsche is a $20k car, it's just a question of paying the money upfront or over time. Now you could probably bump that up to at least $30k, but the point still remains. Despite the longing and crazy prices for the air-cooled cars, they weren't exactly a Camry either. Very rarely did they make it to 100k without at least a valve job. Depending on the models, nearly all of them had issues with head studs either cracking or pulling out of the heads. CIS airboxes exploded. Timing chain tensioners failed, requiring upgrade to the Carrera oil fed tensioners. Anything short of a freshly rebuilt 901 or 915 gearbox would grind when you downshifted into 1st, until 1st just quit working. The heat was terrible. The A/C was even worse. The list goes on, and on, and on. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE all things Porsche. But anyone who thinks the 996 is the only model to ever have a potentially expensive issue is an ignorant moron. By the way, to everyone concerned with the IMS issues - YOU CAN REPLACE THE IMS IF IT CONCERNS YOU. Spend the $2k and stop whining about how scared you are of your car. Yes $2k is a lot of money, but here's the hard truth - you shouldn't be driving a Porsche if you can't afford $2k. Or better yet, buy some tools and learn how to work on your own car. If I didn't DIY I would never even consider owning a Porsche, or any German car.

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Well said Hurdigurdiman, I bet the statistics are in favor of a crash ending the life of a 993 that a solvable upgradable engine item ending the life of an early NA 996 6 speed. How much for for a 993 top end rebuild again? After only a year of ownership I've had full return on investment with smiles and quality time with the wife exploring japan.

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oh no, you can't risk driving a 993 on the road where other cars are - what if one of them crashed into you? Car is ruined as a collectors piece at that point!!

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The odds of becoming a lightning victim in the U.S. in any one year is 1 in 700,000. The odds of being struck in your lifetime is 1 in 3,000. The odds of living a dull life and dying an ordinary death, unless you do something about it, are 1 in 1, or 100%. Life is too short to drive an ordinary car. Hurdi, you may have fudged the stats a little, but I can't effectively convey how much I agree with you.

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^This^ kind of wraps it up in a neat little package! Good Job !

I got my car on a trade in for another car that the 996 owner decided he wanted. I have known this particular car since it was new but I really never knew anything about them. The guy that had it didn't drive it much as he has a couple of Ferraris and some other things. I did fine on the deal even if the car was worth ten grand. The thing was I always liked the way it looked as it was always gleaming when I saw it in his garage. All his cars are kept perfect. He had the Porsche dealer change the oil every year so it had 14 oil changes in 18000 miles and just got a set of new tires. After making the deal I decided to look on the internet and found this forum. After reading about the IMS for many hours I decided it wasn't safe to to drive the car!!! I now feel different, I've seen that many guys get huge mileage out of the cars with no problems. I sent my car to Jake within a week of getting it and had the typical upgrades. It turned out my old IMSB was still perfect along with the RMS. So it turns out that it was not needed but I am still happy I got it done and Jake and his shop were nothing but a positive experience. If I had read this forum first I probably would have been scared of taking the car on trade no matter how cheap I got it. I would not be a Porsche owner today. My thoughts today for anybody that just gets one of these or is about to is to drive it just as if it never had any history problems. Whenever the time comes that the trans has to come out or if there are signs of metal in the filter then put in the upgraded bearing and main seal. If you don't buy the car because of fear you will miss out, you can steal these cars at todays prices. They aren't the greatest thing for a seller but they are for a buyer and for those of us that just want to keep them. Every forum has guys like CRAZY K or whatever his name is, he has more posts than miles driven, its a shame but thats life on the forums.

I'm going to seriously contradict myself here, but responding to threads like this only helps fuel the fire. How about this, unless your engine actually fails, don't write about it potentially failing!! Did I read correctly, one of the posts by a would be 996 buyer said it's a "lottery"?? Seriously?? Did I miss something?? Is every second 996 engine biting the biscuit?? Or perhaps is it just a bi-product of forums like this?? The 996 is an approx 15 year old Porsche that is not the late great water cooled 911, and is certainly no longer the latest and the greatest. It's also expensive to fix, and like any other Porsche a scary proposition to most. Soft resale value - no guff! So, tell us about your broken car if it's actually broken, or else just drive it and tell us about how great it drives! Like JD Arthur said, had he read this forum he wouldn't have touched the "ticking time bomb" 996. No joke!

@1whipped: Preach it, brother! Each time I've set out to buy a 911, I've learned about the endemic problems and known fixes of this or that generation. There's always a valve guide or tensioner or stud issue that you hope the seller has addressed. If he hasn't you {keep looking, or buy and monitor to address, or buy-and-fixnow}. Then you have a durable, capable, efficient, comfortable, grin-inducing sports car. A car that'll perform to the best of your abilities for the rest of your life, if you take proper care of it. Anyway, without panicky internet goobers and their predecessors at chablis coolers across the land, there's no way this working stiff would be on his third -- and, by far, best-- 911.

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I thought you guys might enjoy the entire article ... It is the funniest column I've read on Jalopnik in weeks.

Please make it stop! Or, maybe, just google Jalopnick sucks?

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Gotta admin Doug's humor is strong ... one more for Ferrari fans

Humor? Not so much... More like desperation trying to keep Jalopnik relevant but losing the battle badly.

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Bitter much ...

Wouldn't that be Bitte?

Not to keep this post off topic, but who cares. I read the 996TT article and the comments. That was my first real experience with 996 haters. All I can say is Wow. I didn't know they really existed.

While you may think your "post to miles driven" ratio phrase is cute and condescending, it is not even remotely relevant to the target of your comments knowledge about a 996/M96. Please post more insults after you have; 1. Dropped your engine / trans a few times. 2. Loaned expensive specialty tools to other members at not cost. (Not even shipping cost) 3. Given away many free new and used 996/M96 parts to other members. (Once again no shipping cost) I really dont care what you think or post but thought you could at least do your own research before posting somethinng so stupid.

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His point was...YOU ARE A TROLL, by every definition I have seen. I have only been reading these forums for a month or so as I have started to search for a 996. You seem to offer nothing but bloated descriptions of your talents. Last night I was reading and older thread about the IMSG, man you made a fool of yourself in that one. Many have suggested you just leave the 996 forum since you have no contributions to make. I would second that. I suspect you like the attention way too much though... I may have to resort to the ignore function.

prosled8 huh? I get the impression you take advantage of the new Co law on a regular basis. Maybe your just an IMSG fan, not sure what you meant.

KrazyK you are an enigma. Part of the time you are a wealth of information and one the best posters in this forum. But you also have a pathological NEED to be negative about the car. We get it, you find it lacking. But man, give it a rest and you won't have to deal with people saying you suck. Because when you offer real information and help, damn you are the best.

Thanks. I've never understood why some people take a forum so serious and completely forget what irony, humor, and satire are. For instance, the subject of the thread. To me that was irony. "Oil level too high?" thread. Now thats humor. Lots of examples in this forum. I agree the 996 NA forum has it all.

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i was refraning from the BS concerning you, but now that you are making fun of a ligitimate question, it really does show what an icehole you are. As I own a 986 as well as the 996 and it seems that the oil level acts differently on my 996 I asked the question to find out if what I am seeing is normal. Yes, I half expected some sarcastic remarks from some of the members with 1000's of posts as they are often that way. I quickly learned that this forum in particular has a small but vocal group of members that prefer to be sarcastic at first rather than helpful. So be it as they also are often very helpful. It didn't take me long to get it. Other forums I am on seem to have members that are helpful right off the bat and don't seem to have a need to be an icehole Of course ther are exceptions both ways You on the other hand, see to basicially only spew crap. Maybe in the past you have been helpful and generous, but at least your last 100 or so posts are a waste of pixels on the screen It's one think to make a little poke for fun, it's another thing to just spew out loads of the same crap. Why do you and others feel that this forum, with its basic reason for existence is a exchange of knowledge feel that sarcasm, irony and attempts at humor are the best way to go? There certainly is a place for that, just not every post Use your head for something more than a hat rack

One reason people take a forum seriously is when they read continuous bashing on the car they own by a guy who never actually drove the one he owned anywhere and who in fact sold the car because he was terrified to own it. KK, I have absolutely no doubt that you spent more time wrenching on your 996 than you spent actually driving it. You have contributed much - like the SAI pump rebuild thread - but your incessant chant of "CEF...IMSB...MOF...DT40" is tiresome and unwelcome. We know how you feel about these cars, and we know that you enjoy nothing more than parroting back anything that Raby has ever said (or even implied). Most of the people in this forum will die of heart disease or cancer - and nobody wants their cardiologist or oncologist hounding them day in and day out that they're going to die of heart disease or cancer. Most of what you post here is equivalent to getting a daily hysterical email from a doctor reminding you that you're definitely going to die, it's just a matter of when. I can appreciate that you have an opinion. However, I can also appreciate that you never actually developed any kind of affinity for your car. How could you? You spent so much of your time agonizing about what could go wrong, you never got a chance to enjoy what's right about these cars. There is a lot right about the 996. Many of us come here to enjoy that fact, and we don't need a daily slap in the face from you.

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Yes, I am an ISMG fan for the simple fact that only a couple percent actually fail. Replacing a perfectly good bearing because of fear mongering seems like an epic waste of time, talents and funds. The funny part of that thread was when you told us all about your tool collection, you multiple vehicle lifts and VAST experiences. No wait, what made me laugh is when Raby parsed out your idiotic response making you look like the toolbag I think you probably are. Funny joke about smoking dope too... Of course I would prefer that route to alcoholism which we promote as a wonderful way to celebrate with friends. Gotta love ignorance.

If you don't see what is so wrong about this statement, you probably never will. Finding a perfect bearing during replacement is EXACTLY what you want to find. OTOH., if any of my posts offend you, that's not the intent. It a forum, not personal. About the IMSG, it was a business decision to release this and nothing more. JR is great but he is a businessman with the goal to make profit. (which is also great). The product was not for me and many others. I merely explained why. (if your referring to the thread Im thinking of) The free info in the forum is well worth the membership cost and the enduring agony you must be having sorting through the humor, satire, and irony.

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Those of us voicing an opinion on this realize that it can be done without the drama... I have been a member in the past, I'm sure it is in my future as well.

KK...long ago you lost the ability to hide behind your posts as having any sense of "humor, satire and irony". There was a time when I "got you". You liked to stir the pot. You would post for days then disappear...then you would come back to see what the pot looked like. Mostly harmless. "Is it safe to drive my 996 300 miles?" Are you F'ing kidding me? Yes you were. But lately there is no humor. No satire. No irony. Not from my perspective. And now you are trying to stir the pot in the 997 forum. And as I stated before, no one there is taking your bait. Good for them. You have nothing to contribute. You don't own a Porsche. And...your latest posts are only meant to flame and irritate all of us, with the added result of causing needless grief and worry in 996 owners both old and new. A Lifetime Ban is in order. You have nothing more to contribute.

KK, don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. Trying to recast your previous comments as humorous or ironic is a neat ploy, but the fact of the matter is that you've gone out of your way to **** as many people off as possible. Less than a month after joining Rennlist, and (I think) even before you purchased a 996, you were posting crap like this (Nov. 2011): Jake, I congratulate you on your business acumen and ability to develop and market a product but I think you prove my points. A. The 996 aging platform is not meant to be a DD. B. If you dont know how to work on / are not willing to learn how to work on the 996, you have no business owning one. C. A 996 owner (or any model) should have the complete service manual(s) and learn to use it (them). If your not willing to read, once again, you have no business owning a Porsche. Sorry but thats just the facts for any Porsche. They were never meant to be DD cars. They are specialty vehicles and not for the mechanically disadvantaged or lazy. Nearly every thread to which you "contribute" now includes bashing of the 996, some reference to your amazing mechanical skills, or both. The only real progression I see is your transition from arguing with Raby to your current practice of parroting back everything the man says ad infinitum. You joined RL, decided that the 996 was a terrible choice, bought one anyway, disassembled and reassembled it a few times, and sold it because it was a terrible choice. In that same time period, I have owned two M96-powered Porsches, both of which have been reliable daily drivers, and both of which have been used for lengthy road trips. I suppose that if your M96-powered 911 had actually developed an issue, I could understand your uncontrollable urge to bash the product. However, to the best of my knowledge, the only thing from which your 911 ever suffered was extensive masturbatory preventive maintenance. In all the car forums to which I belong or have belonged, I have never before seen a person so dedicated to smearing a specific vehicle or platform. Sure, trolls come and go, but someone who continues to bait a forum for a car they no longer own is something I've never seen anywhere else.

Well, the Jalopnik Ferrari story was dead on, IMHO. A couple years in 348ts have solidified my love affair with my 996, which I drive daily. My car also sits outside most of the time, due to some investment classic cars taking up space in the garage. And, there's 2000+ ft of gravel between my gate and my house. Don't think the 348 would've survived much of that.

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I think the dude is delusional. Granted he gave me a pointer to remove my air compressor but this is just insane. For those who have been here a while you will surely remember all of "what do you think about this one" threads. You finally buy one and then your neurosis kicks in. And just when I thought I would be rid of sh$t posts of yours you roll into the 997 forum. Will someone please escort him to the door?

So that I understand you, no one is allowed to post on the 996 forum unless they are current 996 owners? I and some others enjoyed the Jalopnik posts and realize they may be based on fact but are still just opinions. Same as for most of the posts here. Gonzo and SP. I never turned down any member that asked for help, whether in posts or PM's (other than shipping tools to Canada). Gonzo seems you forgot your post about trying to sell your car where all tried to make suggestions to help. All you can say is ban for this, ban for that. Get real. Its a forum, its the internet, you don't have to read any thread you don't want to. The spoiler question in the 997 forum was legit. Great car and great, no BS dealer I like. I post opinions. Some are strong some may be just guessing, but their still just opinions. I don't post nude lady pics, threats, etc. So please lighten up.

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The spoiler question in the 997 Forum was legit...Until you threw this little KK nugget in there for no reason or context: " Coming from the 996 crowd, yes, I know, I know, MOF's CEF, ect. , is there any concerns with the 3.8? I assume this is a 9A1 engine, right ?" Interesting you would also bring up your "suggestions" to help me sell my 996. Here is some irony...your many comments on RL have no doubt negatively affected the value of the 996 and added to the difficulty in selling these cars. Thanks for nothing.

LOL, if I only possessed such power. I had 4 vehicles to sell before I can buy a 997. I have 2 left to go. Im glad you were able to sell yours on the forum. It was a well taken care of example.

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So which one wrote this ^^^

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You post opinion under the guise of posting facts. You also post other people's opinion under the guise of posting facts. So long, Krazy. Hopefully sometime soon you'll find a new hobby - or at least a new message board to crap in.

KK, I'm happy to hear what a great mechanic and generous person you are. Every icehole has a few good traits.

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Then it should not be a problem to pony up again

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KK has contributed a much needed reality check to this forum. A lifetime ban is in order for all of the butt-hurt 996 owners ...

Disagree. There is a difference between butt-hurt and sick of hearing the same negative sh*t over and over and over. This forum has plenty of reality. Kk's recent input has done nothing to educate anyone...just a broken record of how ****ty the 996 is.

Another bored 993 owner hanging out in the 996 forum... And who the hell really say's 'butt-hurt' anyway. Are Porsche's popular in lock-up?

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Show me quality 996s selling for four figures and I'll sell my Apple stock and buy them. Of course I'm sure there are some salvage cars at those prices.

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A 993 owner talking about reality .....now that's funny. Go back to your little air cooled ****-fest!!

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Same here, and I buy and sell cars on a very regular basis. A nice higher mileage 986 can be had for under $10k, but even then you have to sift through a lot of junk. A clean, well maintained 996 for that price is a unicorn.

I'm sure he was just kidding everyone but he has a point about the AC Porsches value. For example, the 993's are selling for absolutely crazy money. Some are now in the $100,000 range. That seems incredible to me for a sports car produced in fairly high numbers. Here's a plain 1998 C4S for $98,898!!! Nothing really special, not even a TT, just a C4S. There are many examples of very rare American muscle cars for less. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...-/121512854102 I guess that says something positive about Porsche if someone is willing to pay that kind of money for a semi-mass produced plain 993. There are also examples of 993 C2's near the same price range. Being an auto enthusiast who follows auctions, ect., I find this amazing.

So kk.....it has got to be killing you to put Mr Hyde back in the closet while Dr Jeckyl does damage control. This scenario has been played out by you several times over your span on RL. Kinda krazy how the mind works.

Not at all. I always liked the 993. I posted before that some of the 993's have the most perfect body lines ever produced. I just cant wrap my head around the recent prices. For example, great lines;

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993 prices remind me of this!!

I give this thread 4 stars. Needs more KrazyK!

Again, The 996 is no different than any other European sports car of it's era. Look at M3s and other cars, and you'll see the same percentages of depreciation among them with similar mileage... Heck, even AMG and other MB cars aren't holding their values either. Cayennes are also through the floor, too

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...and just about every one mentioned has a potentially high dollar repair looming, or at least that stigma. I like the '03+ MB SL's, especially TT V12 versions. Ignition coils are $2k per, ABC struts and system maint are crazy too. Same low price of entry though.

Jake can you explain the skyrocketing 993 prices? I mean near six figures for a 1998 C2?? Amazing. Maybe lower production numbers, etc.

Not Jake, but good economy for the 1%, low production numbers, and lots of insecure guys.

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The air cooled cars were produced in very small numbers compared to the water cooled 996 and 997. They will always be worth more than the mass produced stuff ... have you checked 356 and early long hood 911s lately?

Trending 993 prices have less to do with production numbers and more to do with market speculation... They made 50,000-65,000 of them (quoted production numbers vary). While small compared to newer 911's, that's not exactly 'rare', especially as they are only 15-20 years old and most are still either on the road or restorable. 'Collector' car prices also can go DOWN as fast as they go up. The 'coat tail' cars (the so-so cars that get bid up to high prices after sales of really special, low mileage, concours quality, fully documented cars at astronomical prices) are the ones that fall the fastest. Also, asking or even sale prices of some of these 'speculation' cars really have nothing to do with how great the car is... What an absolute steaming pile of crap most '70 era pontiac's were, but a restored '73 Firebird Trans Am is now $175,000??? Let's see... For that I'll take a 997.2 Turbo, a 2015 twin turbo F150 crew cab, and a $50,0000 gas card.

I haven't seen a Trans Am worth $175K - even if it comes with The Bandit.

Again: to all you pseudo-speculators, theologists, and, frankly, whiners who think the 996 is the first 911 to want a couple grand worth of remediation *after it leaves the factory: THANKS! If you weren't so silly, I couldn't plunk down a manageable sum (just like I did with my 2.2 and my 3.2), address some well-known built-in weaknesses (just like I did with my 2.2 and my 3.2), and head down the road in a dealer-only-serviced, low-mileage, heavily-optioned 911 (nothing like I did with my 2.2. and my 3.2). Don't worry, I'm still verrry nervous! The odometer's not connected to my retirement plans and the tensionerstudvalveguidebearing has been addressed, so I'm panicked about what to do with my used sports car besides drive and enjoy it. See you at Mary Kay Motorsports Park!

Took my 997.2 in for service today (I think a deviated stitch is misaligned). They had a gorgeous 1996 993 Turbo on the sales floor. $249K. No kidding. http://www.porsche-scottsdale.com/de...-12799546.html

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Your production numbers are not even close to reality ... see below A Beautiful example with less than 2,000 produced

That's over 42,000 in US sales alone, so I think the 50K+ for total production seems realistic. 993s are not rare by any definition of "rarity" associated with the collector car market. I like the 993 style, a lot, but I personally think the 993 values are a bubble.

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Spooky, you must have trouble with basic math or trying to learn 'Common Core' Math The total is 24,041

Wow (srsly). I knew 993 were rare, didn't know they were that rare. No wonder I can't afford one! Some 911s-- including, apparently, all 993s-- are collector's items. The rest are just cars... terrific cars.

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Welcome to the Global Reality ... Or did you think the collector car market was driven by US production numbers only? ...and here's another Porsche even more 'rare' than the 993's.. RARE is a 959... Under 300 produced. RARE is a 1974 Carrera RS 3.0, 109 produced. RARE is NOT a 993 Turbo, 5,978 produced.

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We are discussing the current state of the US market ... the demand for the ROW 993 is even stronger in Europe. The 928 is another example that is rising in value... buy now.

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Nope. When your talking collector car price bubbles, it's definitely a global market. Do you think shipping costs would deter a euro buyer if he was insane enough to be interested in a quarter million dollar 993? Europe exports a crapload of new cars to the US, with many RO-RO (roll on - roll off) transports arriving every day and heading back across the pond largely empty, so shipping a car the other way is cheap. Like $900 retail.

It is very much a global market. I know quite a few guys on Pelican that have sold early cars to Europe. I posted on a similar thread in Pelican OT, there were about twice as many 996s made per year than 993s, and the 996 was made for twice as many years. Good source here: http://www.porschemag.com/render.cfm...uction_volumes I'm still waiting to see those collectible 928s. Maybe a GTS, but they have never been cheap.

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Oops, right you are...about the US total. Common core is not to blame (at least for this faux pas), misreading the figures is all I can come up with. My point though is that 993s are not rare in the sense of collector car rarity. As pointed out above rare is 959s, early 70s RSs, even maybe turbo slantnose, etc. If relatively low production equals high five and six digit sales figures (for 993s), then 968s ought to be booming very shortly, and 928 GTS should be through the roof (they kind of are tho). Again, I really like 993s and I'm not bashing them, its just that I don't see a fundamental reason for their recent quick rise in value. What goes up, often comes right back down.

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It's a global market. Nevertheless, the 993 was made in far smaller numbers than anything other than the 964, which was originally the red headed step child, before that honor went to our beloved 996. But it's STILL a bubble. I think. Probably.

It's a bubble - you'd have to be an idiot to buy a 993 at these foolish prices!!

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All this bubble talk, let's lighten up the discussion on a Friday: Beni - It's A Bubble - YouTube

The affordable 993 ...