92 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHCrunching the Class Action numbers.
Reported or suspected cause
from the bearings and found in pre-failure engines
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
Yet that doesn't explain the metal pieces proven to be from the bearings and found in pre-failure engines.
Leading evidence: 'from the bearings and found in pre-failure engines' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'from the bearings and found in pre-failure engines' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check oil and filter carefully at every oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
It's a much cheaper car and a much cheaper motor, but the problem is the same.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
-in any automobile engine failure sucks, last I checked a replacement engine for my truck was around $11000 and it's a lowly ford.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
-if the impending demise of your M96 worries you, there are 2 plans of attack:tear it down and replace the suspect areas then maintain it to a standard that makes you feel comfortable or sell it.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Additionally the water pump likes to do bad things well before it's recommended life so the wisdom there is to replace it with every other belt change.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
The current popular solution of replacing the factory bearing with a limited life aftermarket bearing leaves me wanting something better in terns of a solution.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
-if the impending demise of your M96 worries you, there are 2 plans of attack:tear it down and replace the suspect areas then maintain it to a standard that makes you feel comfortable or sell it.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
-if the impending demise of your M96 worries you, there are 2 plans of attack:tear it down and replace the suspect areas then maintain it to a standard that makes you feel comfortable or sell it.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
92 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
A very well respected Porsche man, Jake Raby, makes his living resurrecting the dead. And as he says, that is all he sees...dead engines. The following is offered as a simple search for perspective.
A thread here had a link to the Class Action Suit re: the IMS issue on the 996. The suit also includes the Boxters for the same years. Based on what I read a total of 235,152 Porsche owners were contacted re: the IMS "failure." A total of 3,571 responded...though 296 of those had objections to the settlement...but lets say all 3571 had engine damage from what is called IMS failure. Just over 144000 996s were made between 1999 and 2004. I saw no hard numbers breaking down the problems by Boxsters and 911s. For the sake of numbers lets assume all the 3571 complaints of failure were from the 144000 996s...that would be a failure rate of just 2 percent. If we take that same 3571 and divide it by the total of 235,152, that failure rate becomes even less.
In my opinion this is the most comprehensive accounting of the issue. It certainly seems more complete than the Rennlist poll at the top of this forum. I'll leave it for those interested to search the pages of "996 The Essential Companion" for the alternative mechanical explanation it offers.
This is not to say that the 996 is perfect and has no mechanical weak points. All Porsches have them. But years ago, during the Johnny Carson era, I worked at NBC. They had a guy who did nothing but write checks to settle nuisance claims.
I guess the relevant question is what proportion of the total number of failures that figure of 3,571 responses represents. How many would have moved house, died, not received the contact or simply not responded for some reason?
Well he did ask, so. When I got my claim form and saw they would not cover my IMSB replacement, I trashed it.
*Hey John while your doing your deep thought IMSB pondering, do an investigation to see if there has ever been a full week in the 996 forum that did not have an IMSB thread. Not saying there's a problem with you posting it, just wondering. Alpy, SP, Gonzo, any ponderings of your own? Care to opine, surmise, conclude, guess?
*The above post was intended to be humor, satire, or irony. Whichever does not offend any living or deceased human, plant, or animal in the known or unknown universe.
John - You're new to the forum. You're excited. You want to talk about your car. You like Rennlist. I get all of that. Been there, done that. I spend too much time on here myself still after 11 years of membership. But, the repetitive IMS related threads are absolutely killing me.
And for the record, I don't give a rat's *** about the reputation of the 996 - I want to move up to a Turbo and will probably keep my 996 NA, so the unintended bashing of the 996 doesn't bother me because it's probably keeping the prices of all 996s low so that I can afford to buy another. But, it's just silly to keep talking about it because it's been beaten to death.
So, in the interest of maintaining my mental health, here are some other suggested topics that you can feel free to start a thread about that I'm certain people will be happy to discuss:
-What are the best tires currently on the market for someone who daily drives their car?
-What are the best tires currently on the market for a track day?
-What do I need to know in order to prep my 996 for a HPDE?
-What was the biggest mistake you ever made in your 996 at a driving event?
-I need replacement floor mats, so what's the best/coolest solution? OEM floor mats, aftermarket? Which aftermarket floor mat company?
-What cool color combinations have people gotten for aftermarket floor mats? Contrasting trim? Porsche logos?
-What are the top 10 mods that I can do to my car?
-What 996 related items are on your Christmas list?
-Is it worth spending the money on really expensive brake pads for my 996, or will the normal brake pads work just fine if I'm not tracking my car?
-I've heard brake jobs on 996s are really easy to do. Does anyone have any tips before I try to tackle a brake job myself?
OK, those are just a few topics off the top of my head. Not one relates to the IMS bearing. Feel free to use them or any other non-IMS related topic to stay active in the forum. We need good members to keep the discussion moving along.
I'm almost resigned to the fact these threads will never die. The same story continues to play out....some guy buys a 996 and finds RL. Said guys does some reading and discovers holy hell...I proclaim I have an epiphany! No one surely could have come up with this conclusion because no one is as wise as I...I'm right because I'm ....well right!
The number uno epiphany is the IMS. Why? It's the same reason why we can't pull away from a racing accident on the boob tube. See how I worked in "*****"?
As soon the noob which rhymes with boob realizes that the topic has been circling the toilet bowl for a looooonnng time they move on and enjoy their car. Bad thing there is another guy in wings that is waiting for the same epiphany.
And the sadder thing is some guys can't move on.
Don't we have moderators? Do they not do anything in this forum? Isn't merging duplicate/similar threads a basic moderator function?
I'd offer to do it, but I'd snap and just start banning anyone that uses any three letter acronym... (add the B or not, I don't care. It's close enough either way)
gnat, the threads are too numerous and it wouldn't really be fair to those seeking real answers/opinions.
oops,,,almost forgot. My contribution for us old peeps.
Sorry that you and others here find the IMS posts boring. I don't. And I don't think the issue has been resolved. So until I'm satisfied I'm going to be posting here and discussing the issue. If that bothers you just avoid posts with my name.
For those not bored by trying to resolve a mechanical issue...when the shaft lets go it sort of trashes it all...from the rear bearing to the chain drive at the other end. The question I wonder about is, at which end of the shaft are the failures first beginning.
Some people feel the easy solution is to just replace the bearing with an aftermarket version. And then keep replacing it every 30 to 50 thousand miles. Since the bearing/shaft was designed and redesigned by Porsche to be a lifetime lubricated bearing, I am curious about what specifically is causing the failures.
Regards to any who share my interest.
john - post WHATEVER you want WHENEVER you want. That's what Rennlist is for. People telling you to not post are coming very close to harassment which is IN FACT a violation of Rennlist terms and services. As long as people are trying to make a buck off of IMSB issues there will continue to be new threads. So let the threads continue.
With that said, I think your analysis is quite excellent, relevant, and I for one thank you for your contribution to our community.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22intermediate+shaft+bearing%22
If you want to get fancy, you can limit your search results by adding additional terms...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22intermediate...number+of+cars
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They wouldn't be if every new person would just read the damn sticky before posting the same thing over and over.
But yes with the current state of things the "thread that is never read" would probably break IB due to the number of posts that would get merged in.
Actually I think we have great fun at the expense of posters such as yourself.
The problem is that everything you ask has been asked before. Many times. Many many times. While there isn't a definitive "this is what causes the failure", there is a pretty strong theory by the person that possibly knows more about that stupid bearing than Porsche themselves do. The solution is more well understood. You replace it. Plain and simple.
Where all these threads eventually devolve to (regardless of some members best efforts to derail it with far more entertaining content) is pissing matches about when you should do it and what option you should use. There are reasonable and intelligent arguments (as well as many less so) for all the possibilities, but what it really comes down to is:
If it is detracting from your enjoyment of the car then replace it now.
If not make it part of your next (and future) clutch jobs as the cost is negligible at that point.
Which option you go with is also somewhat personal too, but if you aren't going to keep the car long term then the LN option is your best bet for resale value.
I'm not sure if John knows but there is a IMS section/sticky for such discussions. It was created by the mods at the request of members to keep it all in one spot. It was working actually pretty good until a couple weeks ago.
Holy $#%^,,,,, if you could use the high strength material from that bra to build an IMSB, there would be no failures. The material strength defies physics.
Say what, there's an IMS sticky?
My take, albeit I am no a engineer/mechanical guru/interweb pro, on the whole IMSB issue (hysteria) is this:
-yes it is a problem in these engines
-depending on the model it's slightly less of a problem
-there are things an owner can do to mitigate the issue and or easy his or her troubled mind
-it's a car, all cars will come to the end of their useful service in one way or another
-in any automobile engine failure sucks, last I checked a replacement engine for my truck was around $11000 and it's a lowly ford.
-if the impending demise of your M96 worries you, there are 2 plans of attack:tear it down and replace the suspect areas then maintain it to a standard that makes you feel comfortable or sell it. Be done.
-porsche did all they will ever do to address the issue, they have moved on maybe we should just accept this reality.
-***** are good, isn't this why we are all here anyway?
It all comes down to a persons comfort level with the risk. When I jump in my car and blast off into the mountains my worries disappear and I fricken love my C2! Does this issue cross my mind? Sometimes, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. However if I decide I will be keeping the car long term I will send it off to Callas Rennsport to get torn down and the issues addressed.
Go drive your car, enjoy it! Use this forum as is intended, for info and sharing experiences with like minded people.
Oh ya I almost forgot, more ***** please.
Geebus....I see you two guys sitting on a couch wearing ascots sharing tea talking about how daft and obtuse this whole dreaded subject is.....pass the tar tar and grey popuon please.
Bacon?
Have we stumbled upon a solution for the flawed M96? Perhaps bacon grease the perfect lifetime lubricant for ball bearings that might get oil-washed?
1. Pull the seals on factory bearing.
2. Flush out all that worthless Porsche and bearing manufacturer spec'ed grease.
3. Re-pack with bacon grease. Organic free-range pigs probably provide the best bacon grease. Reinstall seals.
4. Drive your Porsche the way it's meant to be driven, relieved from pesky failure mode #8,672!
Bonus: Smells like a great breakfast!
Well I, for one, feel good about the progress we've made here today resolving this mechanical mystery. Good discussion everyone - nice work. Another dozen or so of these threads and we'll get this thing resolved. Somebody may want to alert the boys in Zuffenhausen that we're getting real close.
OK people ... rule number 3: Do not hide pictures of boobies in IMS threads or they will be missed. I recommend adding this to the forum guidelines on the first page.
I almost skipped this thread based on the topic which would have been a big mistake.
Thank you!
It probably encourages it more than anything, but I figure it translates to a google-bomb so anyone searching for the term just gets boobie pics.
Hell, might even start driving the value of the cars up. Who wouldn't want a car that produces so many *****?
My post is very straightforward. Perhaps you simply lack the basic comprehension skills to understand. Rennlist is a website used for communication. We are communicating. Is that clear enough? Or do I need to dumb it down for you even further?
I'm all for communication but not for a broken record...about the same specific topic over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. This is the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing and hoping for a different outcome. Comprendo?
Oh the irony
KC summed it up perfectly and succinctly in the 3rd post (emphasis is mine). Maybe you should work on your own "basic" comprehension skills a bit yourself...
I find it ironic that (in my opinion anyway) the RL poster with the best taste in women (or at least pics of women) is in fact a woman herself.
Long live Karen!
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Hey, I get where you're coming from. Here's the part you're missing, virtually every request for help on this forum is immediately responded to with IMSB nonsense. Thus making them IMSB threads. Or at least attempts to sell aftermarket bearing products. Yet no mention of boobies is made. Someone makes an entirely NEW mention of numbers associated with the recent settlement, which tends to debunk much of the IMSB nonsense, and everyone FREAKS OUT. Can you see where I'm coming from?
As long as the Rennlist forum is used to sell aftermarket bearing products, which many of us think are snake oil, then attempts to debunk the nonsense will continue. Over and over and over and over and over and over. Verstehen?
New information deserves to be discussed. The recent settlement revels new information. Oh, I comprehend very well that you would like me to shut up. It's just not gonna happen.
I don't think it's snake oil...however the only one I trust is from LNE/Flat6. Matter a fact on the my 997 where Flat6 is building a motor for me I'm having the IMS Solution put in. For the amount of money I have into it I would be a fool not to. But here is the deal...the 996/997 have a problem with the motor design regarding the xxx. There is a remedy. That is it. Can you believe it? There is an actual remedy! Either change it now, change when you do a clutch or never change it.
Do you think the saps back say 2000 years ago had the same conversations about why a round wheel was better than a square one and then they pontificated about it for another 1000 years? Square wheels don't work but round do....let's move on. Capiche? I thought the capiche thing was kind of a nice touch to carry on the theme....
I do not think these words mean what you think they mean.
The settlement is almost a year old now (yes it just recently closed, but it was officially opened on 1/30/13), so it is not recent and there is not any new information about it that adds any additional clarity over what was available when it was first released. The settlement has also been well discussed in the intervening time.
The simple fact is that we will never know the true extent of the issue as there are far too many variables that differ from car to car (and even for the same car over the years/owners) that can contribute to or prevent a failure.
The general wisdom is that high milage cars are safe, but there have been high milage failures too.
As far as the "fixes", I don't think anyone on here that has an ounce of a clue thinks the LN options are snake oil. At the same time, however, that doesn't mean it's the be all and end all.
The only real answers are:
1) Drive your car regularly. Put miles on it and don't baby it when it's on the road.
2) Check your oil and filter carefully at every oil change. If you find metal, get that thing opened up ASAP.
3) Replace the bearing regularly regardless of the option you go with. Doing it with your clutch is the conventional recommendation.
Those are the same answers that were around before the settlement and will continue to be the answers for the foreseeable future. Nothing in the settlement changed or clarified any of that.
And around in circles we go. You believe in the remedy. I do not. Get your head around that. I've simply seen far to many high mileage motors to buy into the systemic design nonsense. I'm with the engineers in Stuttgart on this one. Although to discuss such things we would need a ... wait for it ... AN IMSB THREAD.
Sure do but when my motor went at 121,000 miles it was on the original pcar IMS.....and it was not the cause. I never had it changed. The problem might bite you and it might not. But if it does ur **** is going ache. I'm out.
I totally am NOT with the engineers at PORSCHE with this. The design is flawed, the proof is evident. I can get my mind around "it had a lot of miles on it and it wore out" but "it had to little miles on it so it blew up" give me a break. When the original buyers bought these cars many were just rich guys that liked the way they looked, liked the history and glory of the name, could easily afford it and just wanted to have one. The majority were never going to race it and thought it would probably even be more reliable if they didn't. The engineers designed the car to fulfill the average customers requirements and then some, ac, climate control, power seats, stereo's etc were made for people to just drive the car to work or wherever. Nobody was told to go out and drive it hard and fast and put as many miles as possible on it or it will blow up. The fix is not snake oil, the guy that invented the fix (JR) has devoted a large part of his life to it, the Porsche engineers came nowhere close. I feel lucky that Jake makes the snake oil for us, Porsche just sells us the same old crap, or crapshoot if you look at that way.
I love some good masturbation as much as the next guy, but has everyone with an opinion actually read the settlement docs?
"16. Discovery and investigation establishes that Porsche adapted a single
row design for the IMS in 2001. The payment of warranty and goodwill claims of
owners of Porsche vehicles with this design of the IMS (all Class Vehicles) spiked
up to between 4% to 8% of all such Vehicles in the United States, and 4% to 10% of
all Class Vehicles in California. Warranty claims for Porsche Boxster and 911
vehicles relating to IMS issues; which had different versions of the IMS have
uniformly involved claims of far less than 1% of such vehicles."
4-10% of class vehicles with single-row bearings. This number is not fresh, so presumably some additional number of cars have had the issue.
HOWEVER - 4-10% means that 90-96% of cars haven't asploded. People spend more money in Vegas on far worse odds.
Fix the bearing, or don't fix the bearing. What the world does not need is an individualized accounting of each owner's decision-making process on why - or why not - to do so.
"...to date, Porsche has spent over $20;000,000 reimbursing customers for the parts and labor
necessary to repair vehicles experiencing engine damage or failure as a result of the defective
IMS shaft. (This entails approximately 3,100 claims granted under warranty or good will.)"
John, it seems that you did refer to the settlement docs for some of your data, but your analysis doesn't differentiate between the single-row bearings and other bearing designs. There seems a clear, significant difference between single-row cars and other cars. If you have a single-row car, the discovery docs
suggest
- but do not prove - that you have a greater chance of seeing this specific failure than dual-row cars, a trend that seems consistent with comments posted here and elsewhere.
158 pages of non-habit-forming sleep aid available
here
...
IMS
Boobies
KK
Gentle Banter
Foreign Language Lessons
I gotta admit that nothing is more entertaining than a derailed IMS thread.
However, unless someone discovers/invents/disproves/improves ANYTHING having to do with the IMS/IMSB's failures/fixes/maintenance/prevention...then I am pretty certain it has already been covered
ad nauseum
(note the latin)!
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Maybe he should have used the "996 defense". That would have gotten him off.
"I read one too many IMS threads and just snapped. It was all going fine with all the boobies and all, but then some idiot thought he had a whole new perspective that no one ever in the history of the IMS saga could have ever possibly thought of. I just snapped. I'm sorry."
Bet you'd get out of any charge if you could force the jury to slog through the threads on just the first page!
Good information. Thank you. Of course the state of affairs when the class action was filed is very different from how things are when it was concluded...and the latter just happened recently so it is not old news.
Am I to gather that the 1999 models did not have problems because they used a double bearing design? My understanding is that the bearing/shaft/cam chain gears went through three separate design generations...however if none of them prevented the damage (and I assume Porsche was really really trying to build cars that would not explode) then(as Spock might say) one might want to consider something else as the cause. One theory put forth is that the VariocamPlus is very dependent on proper oil level and that letting the level get down to the Min mark, when combined with other factors can lead to a chain jumping the gear, throwing the shaft out of balance and trashing the engine as well as the bearing. Yet that doesn't explain the metal pieces proven to be from the bearings and found in pre-failure engines. Which brings us back to which came first, the chicken (cam chain gear) or the egg (bearing)?
The current popular solution of replacing the factory bearing with a limited life aftermarket bearing leaves me wanting something better in terns of a solution. If replacing the IMS bearing is so easy, why not have a Porsche dealer do it with an OEM bearing? These aftermarket fixes are good for 30 to 50 thousand miles based on my reading here. They do not provide a permanent fix in the way that the factory bearings were hoped to be lifetime bearings. The idea of changing the bearing every time you get a new clutch makes me wonder what is wrong with the clutch. I've been driving manual transmissions since 1960...hot rod Chevy's, Corvettes, MGs, Hondas Fiats Alfas Maserati Ferrari and Porsche. As daily drivers and as cars that have been heavily tracked. I've never had to replace a clutch on any of my cars.
Using the class action numbers in your post, you say that roughly 3100 cars were given warranty or good will service. That isn't 4 to 10 percent of the 996s made, that is only 2%. Unless the 4 to 10 percent is the percentage of cars sold in the USA...but the spread from 4 to 10 is a 250% jump...and I find that a little too imprecise for my taste. And do we have any numbers from cars in Europe? Certainly they must be considered in any real discussion of the issue.
Of course the easiest thing to do is never talk about this anymore and just keep putting temporary fixes on our cars. And for those who are happy with that, no one is stopping or criticizing them from doing it. Hopefully they will not want to stop or criticize those who want to pursue discussing the issue.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
So a good lawyer or statistician would argue that based on the above data, California cars are up to 2% more likely to have an #IMSBS failure? Obviously not, but it illustrates the folly of relying on incomplete statistical data.
Also remember, this was a brief written by the plaintiff's attorneys... The actual discovery docs were never made public. It was their job to portray and summarize the data to the best possible advantage for their clients. It is not gospel, and not necessarily highly accurate. Just the fact that there is such a large range quoted indicates the data was incomplete and inconclusive. Also, since their plaintiffs were later 996 owners, and specifically NOT Boxster or early 996 owners, it again was in their clients best interest to portray the single row 996 bearing as worse than double row, worse than Boxster to try and achieve the most favorable outcome or them.
I keed. I keed.
The aftermarket ceramic hybrid bearings are supposed to be more reliable than the OEM bearing. Even if you could get a dealership to install an OEM bearing, why would you if more durable options are available?
If you have a single-row car and you want to install a permanent "Solution," there's a guy who can help you out with that. I have a dual-row car, so my options include (a) doing nothing, or (b) upgrading to the hybrid bearing. I chose the latter - even though my dual-row car is less likely to fail, my indy and I decided to retrofit anyway.
Everything dies and everything mechanical will break eventually. There are no permanent fixes...for anything! Your nice car will end up in the junk yard someday and that's a reality. Life is short...and nothing lasts forever. Moving on....(insert screaming exit!!)
Couldn't agree more. I tried that logic once too, and someone interpreted that as "you think that 996's are awful and that's why they'll eventually break. Heretic!"
All machines have a lifespan / MBTF, a fact with which some folks seem incapable of coping.
John, the replacement dual row ceramic hybrid bearing that installs into an original dual row bearing car like yours is recommended to be replaced at 75000 miles not 50000 miles. That it what I was told when Jakes shop did mine. As SCHN3LL said if your engine is an original dual row bearing it can not get the IMS solution which is good forever and possibly longer! Your choices no matter how many times we go over this are to either do nothing or do the upgrade. Whichever way you go the odds are greater that an uninsured motorist driving drunk will crash into your car and escape before you get an upgrade or the stock bearing goes out.
And just what has changed in the state of affairs other than the class action being closed and the number of respondent being known (which has no basis on anything really as it excludes 3/4s of the 996s due to age)?
80s BMW 3 series have a similar problem with their timing belt. BMW originally had a 100k mile lifespan on it, but some people's were failing which borked the engine up good being an interference motor. So the common wisdom (even before BMW lowered their recommendation) is to replace it every 50k. Additionally the water pump likes to do bad things well before it's recommended life so the wisdom there is to replace it with every other belt change. Furthermore the common wisdom is that if you can't 100% prove that they were done recently, then the first thing you do is change both when you pick one up.
Yet even as well known as those issues are, there are still those that ignore these things and then cry when one or the other craps out and the motor is toast.
It's a much cheaper car and a much cheaper motor, but the problem is the same. Parts rarely last as long as intended in the real world and people ignore the conventional wisdom that would save headaches.
It's called preventative maintenance. Every car needs it. Some more than others and some is more involved and expensive than others.
Until recently that was exactly what I planned to do. Jake is a smart guy and I believe he is the most knowledgable person out there on these motors, but given that his bearings need to be replaced at roughly the same time as a typical clutch I don't see any real benefit if you are driving your car.
What I have come to accept lately, however, is that our car no longer gets driven enough to "feel safe" (I'm going on year three of "I'll change it with the clutch", but I've still got another 10-20k on this clutch). For
those
cars I do believe Jake's solution has an advantage over the OEM bearing and is a better choice.
I'm still not planning to change it out until the clutch needs to be done and we'll see how much it is getting driven at that time.
I just had an LNE bearing installed in my newly acquired 2001 C4. I was pleasantly surprised when the indy told me it had the dual row in it and the original bearing was in good shape - he said I should be good for 75,000 miles, as you say, JD.
GDI, In my opinion you were lucky to have a 2001 that still had a dual row bearing in it. Like Jake said you can't be sure what bearing they have until the engine is apart. Good luck with your newly acquired car. Mine is also newly acquired and I couldn't be happier.
Given the number of engines being blown up with newly installed after market bearings, is it time yet for a class action against the bearing suppliers?
