What do you boys think of these cars?

Two ebay cars I'm looking at. http://www.ebay.com/itm/161540275625?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks I prefer the 2002, as it is a Targa and I like the color a little better, but the 99 is nice too and has it's benefits like AWD. What do you think of these cars? Any obvious red flags? Royal

The Targa is beautiful. Good price too. Buy it now and enjoy.

Thought so too. Great color combo, right options, nice mileage. Just love that color combination. I'm going to make an offer on it I think. Just love that Targa top.

Both good looking cars. Can't go wrong with either. I like the look of the aero coupe better, but I like the supple leather seats on the targa. The aero coupe is loaded, I think it has every other option. Make sure you get maintenance records if avail. Do you due diligence and don't be afraid to walk.

another vote for the AERO

Go for the '99, it has a dual row intermediate shafts bearing. That alone to me is worth getting that one. The '02 has a single row bearing. Mine is a '99.

not big on the areo personally, plus the 2002 has 3.6 vs the 3.4 litre engine the 99 has

2002 for the 3.6 and various updates to the car.

targa

here is the build sheet for the Targa http://admin.porschedealer.com/repor...BA29952S635256 it is nicely optioned Personally all things being equal, I would get the newer car, bigger and better motor 3.6 vs 3.4, has updated interior, 3 spoke steering wheel, etc, newer and lower mileage. In any case, get a PPI done before you buy

Targa

On the Targa it all looks good but I'm partial to the Aero.

Targa appears to be missing full leather but otherwise I really like it. Get PPI and then good to go. Replace IMS if you feel the need.

Hard to fault either, and both are reasonable prices. Make sure you have Targa top operation verified, as they can be a pain to fix.

Here is a different angle. The 'buy in' price is attractive but the 'stay in' the game cost can be painful. Best way I know to optimize buy-in+stay-in price is to buy a car with a well documented service/repair history from a competent & reputable Indie. How to find that Indie deserves another thread ?

Targa, get a PPI, before anything.

Now to find a place to get a PPI in that area.

Carfax: Good luck in your search... Date: Mileage: Source: Comments: 02/01/2002 22 Midwestern Auto Group Dublin, OH [phone removed] magcars.com Pre-delivery inspection completed 03/15/2002 Midwestern Auto Group Dublin, OH [phone removed] magcars.com Vehicle serviced 10/02/2002 3,875 Santa Monica Audi Santa Monica, CA [phone removed] santamonicaaudi.com Four wheel alignment performed Steering/suspension checked 08/29/2003 8,010 Midwestern Auto Group Dublin, OH [phone removed] magcars.com Recommended maintenance performed Driveshaft seal replaced Transmission removed to complete repair Trim checked Washed/detailed 11/26/2003 8,034 Midwestern BMW Dublin, OH [phone removed] midwesternbmw.com Battery replaced 01/27/2004 8,047 Midwestern BMW Dublin, OH [phone removed] midwesternbmw.com Brakes checked 03/03/2004 8,085 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Westerville, OH Title #2506572315 Title issued or updated 09/30/2004 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Westerville, OH Title #2506969405 Title issued or updated Correction to record New owner reported 10/14/2004 9,800 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2506994963 Title issued or updated 03/12/2009 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2506994963 Registration issued or renewed 10/15/2009 Ohio Damage Report Accident reported Involving front or side impact Involving left side impact with another motor vehicle Left side primarily damaged Minor damage reported Vehicle towed Airbags did not deploy Minor damage is usually cosmetic, including dents or scratches to the vehicle body. 04/21/2010 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2506994963 Registration issued or renewed 04/29/2010 19,922 Service Facility Maintenance inspection completed Oil and filter changed Washed/detailed Brakes serviced Ignition system checked 06/25/2010 20,358 Service Facility Maintenance inspection completed Body electrical wiring repaired Window(s) checked 02/23/2011 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2506994963 Registration issued or renewed 04/28/2011 21,603 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Vehicle purchase reported 04/29/2011 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale 04/30/2011 21,703 Online Listing Vehicle offered for sale 05/04/2011 Service Facility Pre-delivery inspection completed Maintenance inspection completed 05/16/2011 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2301404145 Title issued or updated Dealer took title of this vehicle while it was in inventory 07/19/2011 21,787 Dealer Inventory Vehicle sold 07/19/2011 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Vehicle purchase reported 08/05/2011 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Delaware, OH Title #2301438306 Title issued or updated Registration issued or renewed New owner reported Loan or lien reported 02/27/2012 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #2506994963 Registration issued or renewed 05/14/2012 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Delaware, OH Title #2100940692 Title issued or updated Correction to record Loan or lien reported 08/20/2012 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Delaware, OH Title #2301438306 Registration issued or renewed 12/12/2012 Service Facility Columbus, OH Pre-delivery inspection completed 12/17/2012 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Title #8000437765 Vehicle purchase reported Title issued or updated Correction to record New owner reported Loan or lien reported 12/17/2012 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Title #8000437767 Title issued or updated Correction to record 12/17/2012 41,145 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #8000437773 Title issued or updated Registration issued or renewed 11/14/2013 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Columbus, OH Title #8000437773 Registration issued or renewed 07/30/2014 54,084 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale 07/31/2014 54,094 Bobby Rahal BMW Of South Hills Canonsburg, PA [phone removed] bobbyrahalbmw.com Maintenance inspection completed Electrical system checked Emissions inspection completed State inspection completed Washed/detailed 08/06/2014 Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Dept. Canonsburg, PA Title #7364422401 TE Title issued or updated Dealer took title of this vehicle while it was in inventory 10/20/2014 54,232 Auto Auction Pennsylvania Listed as a dealer vehicle Sold at auction Millions of used vehicles are bought and sold at auction every year. 10/22/2014 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale

I like the targa, but neither have the minimum options I would want which would include a leather dash and door cards and xenons. The aero car definitely needs more options. Considering the weather in Chicago just turned to *hit, you have all the time in the world to look for the car now. There will be more.

Not sure I care for the Aero, the more I look at it... and considering the accident history I'm not sure I'm so interested in the 2002 anymore. As far as color scheme, etc, I definitely like the Targa. Paul we still gotta hook up; things got crazy and I want to come see your car. I'll give you a buzz soon.

oh tough, the aero is nice but I like the targa too.... If in doubt go for the power

Hands down the MkII. Looks like a really nice example...

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I wouldn't let a fender bender repair get in the way These aren't concourse collector cars - it's not going to make a difference

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They both have Litronics The Targa has the Technic package which includes them and the C4 has them listed in the ad I would not worry too much about a minor fender bender as long as there was no frame damage and it was repaired properly It also makes a good case to pay a lower price. In any case, $26k is a little high anyway. I paid $21 for my 04 Targa a few months ago, newer, but 80k miles. Had service records for the last 3.5 years from one of the top indys in So Cal and a great PPI Personally I don't care for the Aero package, it looks a bit flash and draws more attention to the car I am a partial to the Targa, great clean lines and you don't see too many of them

I drove a targa and hated it, glorified sunroof that added more wind noise when closed at highway speeds. Strictly my opinion, but seeing these ad's makes me smile more and more about the deal I struck for my car.

If you're shopping around $26k, go for a C4S.

Well I have decided I think the Aero is not for me. I do not like the flashiness it adds to what I feel is an otherwise modest, mild, well-flowing iteration of the 911. kab1994 adds some valuable perspective and I think I want to go view a local Targa for sale, perhaps. I am not sure that I like the C4S as it too, has some flashy changes. One thing is for sure - other than the Targa which I haven't decided if I want it or not, the color combination of that 2002 is really awesome... I really like that.

What is a good price on the Targa? He said no to $22k.

what happened to the black C2 that was on CL here like 72k and has the Vertex oil thing that car looked like it was worth a second look keep looking, you'll find your car

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Good price for you or for him?

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The car is buy it now for $26,600. I'm looking for some amount off that of course.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/4826726272.html have you double checked this one?

The mileage is a touch high for my liking and I vowed after owning two black on black cars that I'd never do it again. It is absolutely brutal in the summer time and the maintenance of black is difficult. I guess I could look though. It's a Mk2 which is nice and the owner claims IMS and clutch have been done already. I want silver so badly though.

I agree with the black,... but that car has been up for about 6 weeks

Yeah, it has. It's been up there for as long as I've been looking which is about six weeks, maybe a little longer.

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I think his asking is a very reasonable deal if it is as clean as it looks in the pictures... But I'd want to see it in person before I even did a PPI on it. He's probably got ~$3K of profit built in to his BIN price, so you can use that as a guide for what he might sell it for. Looks nicely equiped... MkII, 18" Carrera wheels, PSM, Technic package, Leather/power seats, carbon/aluminum shifter and brake lever. $85K original price. It also looks 100% OEM, completely unmolested. That's the way I prefer to buy them, even if i want to modify them after I get them.

If I'm not mistaken that car has 55k miles, so depending on what service has been done recently it could severely affect the value. If the car has had some major maintenance in the last 5,000 miles i.e. Clutch, water pump, IMS, brakes etc then it could be worth going 23500-24000. If not let it go, it's not a car you want at any price imo.

Potentially even $25,000..... Again all depending on the recent major service.

P.S. I read that craigslist ad and that is a nice car, albeit with higher mileage. I would not give the car kudos for a clutch job 20,000 miles ago as you did, though. I know people who could easily burn up a clutch in 30,000 miles lol.

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The IMS bearing has not been changed recently, nor has the clutch. I agree that this is slightly concerning. I asked some specific questions and all I got was "it looks good." This was my exchange with the seller (oldest, initial message message first): Please send me your email address and I will email the car fax. Believe the carfax shows a minor accident. I believe the front bumper was just painted. Everything on the car looks good. The car was sold twice but fell through both times due to fact that their financing fell through. On 1/4/15, 8:50 PM, rlich82287 wrote: Re: Vehicle condition rlich82287 sent a message about Porsche : 911 2dr Carrera #281551524027 Sounds like a nice Targa. Would you be able to send me a CarFax? Are any maintenance records available? Does it need anything? Any accident/paint work? Thanks for answering. - specialtycars11 Dear rlich82287, I purchased the car from a local Mercedes dealer. They said the car was through the shop and ready to go. We checked it out and did not see any issues with anything. We checked the oil and it looked good. If it had metal shavings we would of sent it back. I do not know if the bearing was replaced or if any updates where done. Let me know if you have any other questions thanks - specialtycars11 On 1/4/15, 8:20 PM, rlich82287 wrote: Vehicle condition rlich82287 sent a message about Porsche : 911 2dr Carrera #281551524027 How recently has the oil been changed in this car? Was the filter cut open and inspected for metal shavings or particles from any possible Intermediate Shaft Bearing issues? Has the Intermediate Shaft Bearing been replaced with an updated version? I am looking for a nice 996 911 Targa; they're starting to rare up a bit but they are still a great deal for the money. The IMS bearings fail on lower mileage cars more than the higher mileage ones and it's around $15,000 to build an M96 motor if it fails. Does the car need anything other than a new owner? Thanks, Royal Lichter, Chicago, IL I prefer them 100% original. The car was in a minor front end accident on the left side and original parts were used to put it all back together but I prefer a 100% original vehicle with no accidents and no paint work. No accidents at the very least. All I'm intending to do to a 996 is the IMSB otherwise I intend to leave it as it came from the factory.

With none of that maintenance done I would say $23,500 maybe $24,000 MAX if it is absolutely stunning in person. You're asking all of the right questions, though. I think if he will come down to $23,500 and it is beautiful in person and runs flawlessly to you it is worth paying to have a ppi done to finalize the purchase.

He sent me the Carfax which showed nothing except for a minor font end damage accident. I offered the $22k like I said which he immediately denied. Here's what I sent in an email:

Lol idk if I would've shown my account balance just say you're paying cash😂

I'm betting dollars to doughnuts we aren't able to agree on a price and that he doesn't care about any of the stuff I mentioned.

Not going to disagree with you there, don't worry you'll find your car! See what he says though.

Ya in many ways you an get a lot more for for money with a car that has crossed through the 60-70k mileage range where more significant maintenance items like clutches and water pumps and such are needed. My car had a lot of work done between 75k and 95k for example including a clutch and the IMSB was upgraded at that time. But you are in a bit of a quandary looking for a daily driver / primary car because you have to balance that value vs mileage because it's also not the best idea to start at 90k miles of you plan to rack up another 50k in the next 3-4 years. So what to do what to do. You are almost better off finding a pampered super low mile garage queen for up near $30k and plan on doing the IMSB. I mean if you can find a 30k mike car for $29k I would get that over this targa for the asking price. What about that red aero 99 for $27k. Guy wasn't biting on $24k but might take $25500 or $26k for it. That car had like 30k miles right?

They made 100k of them, the market isn't currently inflationary, and they still get bad press. I'll find the right car no doubt. I won't be upset if this isn't the right car; I really want a car with 30000 miles on it. I also would probably throw another thousand bucks or so on to $22k for this because it is a great color and has great options. No to red, unfortunately. I'd rather wait it out for the right car then sacrifice. I've bought and owned enough cars to know to simply wait till I find the right thing. I almost have a "don't care" attitude whenever I come across a candidate. The silver or gunmetal thing is actually the one requirement I will not bend on. My dad had a silver/black 928S when I was young and I have fond memories of that car. I'm trying to get that back a little bit.

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oh but red is-a-so-a-nice!

$22k would be on the high side, probably fair deal for all IMHO @ $20 its really good deal for you Targa's while produced in lower numbers than he other 996 models are simply not that rare. If it was a car that spent its life in a warm dry climate like So cal or AZ, might be worth a little premium, but this one has mostly been in OH and PA, as such subject to some nastier weather and road shyte and salt in the winter. Also it did have some body damage (not that I would be too worried about it, but a bargaining chip anyway)

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Finding a silver 996 won't be a problem...per the Essential Companion : PAG leasing ordered basic Carrera Coupe and Cabriolet models with a small number of options and painted silver. Which is why the second hand market in the leasing nations seems to be full of silver 996s. I avoided silver for both my Boxster and my 996, since silver 986's and 996's are everywhere, but this will work in your favor.

interestingly, there are no suitable low-ish miles coupes in the SF Bay Area that I can point you to consider. Silver or otherwise. At least via Craigslist. But if you find something I can check it out for you. It would be nice to get a car that lived in CA and the pricing won't be much different, just the hassle of getting it home.

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No hassle from CA. I have been searching high and low in California. Been a lifelong desire to drive a car home from California.

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if you can look past the MILEAGE, a possible contender? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-blk-6spd.html 1st posted here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...san-diego.html

The Targa was great looking but I have doubts about the technology of the top. The original Targas squeeked and leaked...I think these are known to rattle and shake. And the brand new Targas look like a gift to the mechanics. I'd stick with a simple old sunroof. If you are willing to consider California check out the Los Angeles Craigslist. I live in the San Fernando Valley...a Mercedes Dealer in Encino has one...a private lot called Sport Trend in Van Nuys sells nothing but 911s... anyway I'd be happy to go look at something if you see a car you like. There are indie shops in the area that could do a PPI if you needed it. And don't discount the ten Porsche dealers out here... everyone will be willing to deal. Happy hunting.

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Wow, if I wanted a C4S at a reasonable price that is certainly the one to buy. Certainly a beauty with great maintenance and the right stuff done to make it reliable. I'll have to think on that and continue to search. Definitely wasn't married to that car. For that car I was willing to pay $22-23k. For another I may be willing to pay $18-20, or $25k. All depends on the car. Wasn't able to make a deal, so I walked. You are certainly right on the reliability and future prospects of the Targa though. My thought process on that car was taking off $3000-4000 because it lacks maintenance records... Need to run through it and do some stuff. The guy selling it telling me "everything looks good" is not an adequate response for me especially 1000 miles away. It takes a special kind of buyer to consider a car like this in general, and even a more special one to buy one far away. I am by no means surprised that it didn't work though; dealers are frequently and simply numbers guys. They buy what they can get a deal on, build some profit in when they price it, and 99% of the time they move. And god bless them, they are just trying to run a business, I run a business too. I am sure this car will be gone within 8 weeks. Between my four dealership tenants, Rennlist, Craigslist, the back lots of the Porsche and BMW and Mercedes dealers, I'll find a car. I am in absolutely no rush. More importantly thank you for the offer; I might take you up on it. There is a ton of inventory out west in the drier states. The idea of buying a California or Nevada or Arizona car is very attractive; particularly because I want to drive it home. It would be an awesome trip. California is a hotbed for Porsche and the prices out there are just amazing. Thank you!!!

Rlich8- there is a very interesting car dealership up here in northern Nevada, it is called sport haus. They deal with some very very high-end cars, and cater to many clients all over the globe. All they do is secondhand supercars. When I first started working they had MANY 911 996's on the lot anything from turbos to c4s to c2 to targa etc. Their pricing is astronomical, which is why I didn't buy from them. But since I bought my car the cars I looked at months ago are still on the lot and are certainly not the biggest money makers for them so maybe they'd be willing to deal. I will drive by on the way to my office this morning and see what's there. P.S. Do you work in commercial real estate? I work on the development side.

Check out the 03 C4S just posted in the 996 forum. For $25,000 that car would be a phenomenal find. I would right the man a check right now!

SportHaus has a nice 03 Targa and a nice 04 Coupe. I wonder the price. I'll have to call... Thanks for the heads up on that place!! As for RE- yes I am in commercial industrial adaptive re use and redevelopment (mainly re use). Lots of great opportunity with all these old buildings in my city!

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just look at DAT *** Indeed, a LONG road trip home in your new 996 is IMHO an awesome way to start your ownership P.S. LMK if you need me to look the car over, a quick jaunt to SD (70 miles-ish) will give me a reason to stretch out my car on the freeway WITH THE TOP DOWN (I know it sucks, have a warming trend in SoCal right now )

Royal- I drove the targa. A very nice car. When I drove it 3 months ago (maybe even longer) they wanted $32,000! I laughed, hysterically, and walked away after hearing they wanted $40,000 for that 2004! But cash talks and they're taking up space, make an offer!

That's a very interesting, more boutique, business. I work on retail & office triple net stuff (development investment brokerage etc).

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Close relative of a business; those are the kinds of firms we work with for about 30% of our deals. The professionalism is so appreciated working with those kinds of deals!

That Seal Gray C4S is super tempting... Damn. I can't stop thinking about it.

For the price, buy it, drive it until spring,and if you don't like it you could sell it for what you bought it for

I've got a 2002 Seal Gray Targa also. It is a beautiful color.

Hey Rich. I saw a car you may find interesting in the Panarama club mag. 99 arctic silver with 60k mi and recent IMS and clutch and full maint. Enthusiast owned for sure. Full records. All stock. c2. In NC. Asking $24900. I will PM you the details. No affiliation just saw the add.

Good luck with finding your 996! Keep us updated!

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Got your PM. Sold Thank you though!!! I intend to!! And put a FabSpeed on once I get the car :-)

Oh bummer. So both of those sold eh? Figures.

I know. Bummer. I'm still taunting myself with that Targa...

always hated that thing on the back (aero somthing) Looks like a big S.

Rlich, when you do get whatever you get don't spend $2,000+ on an exhaust before you spend the $450 INSTALLED on fister d mufflers. I think that they are PERFECT and simply provide a noise that reminds me of the racing Porsches of old. I've heard a lot of exhausts for the 996, including fabspeed, but none are as good as the FisterD. Just had mine put on yesterday after a month of research, listening, and shopping, but once I heard the fister my decision was instant

Rich, sorry this deal didn't workout on huge c4s. I sincerely hope you find your Porsche soon, it'll change your life. Since you're in Chicago you may want to check this one out further. The hood doesn't look to align with the front bumper well, so look into that, but I bet you could get this guy down to $24k. I could do a visit since this is 15 min from my house. PM me. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...76643781&Log=0