Time for a Tesla?

I'm wondering if any of you have considered moving from your 996 to a Tesla. Or better yet does anyone own both and willing to compare them. Model 3 to 996. I do love my present 996 but my advancing age and crappy eye sight has forced me to diminish any aggressive driving. Tesla has some amazing safety features and is still reputed to be fun to drive. I have not driven a Tesla yet but planning to pursue it after we move back to Fl. What say you?

My son owns a model 3, it's the mid-priced one, all the Teslas come in three levels, basic, two-motor, and performance. I've driven the car a bunch and it's a hoot!!! The acceleration is phenomenal! ALL the torque is right there when you stomp the pedal. Specs say it's the same 0-60 time as our cars, but the feeling is better! Now, all this said I'm not selling my 03 996 Tip and buying a Model 3. The model 3 does NOT feel anything like driving our cars. It feels like I'm in a super-smooth luxury vehicle. Handling is so-so, and I can't drive it non-stop to Dallas (350 miles) without spending at least 2 hours at a fast charger along the way. Also, I'm not impressed with the build quality on his car, lot's of imperfections on a $68K car. Oh, did I say his car cost $68K? Heck, I can buy three 996's for that price! If you want a daily beater car and you have the cash for a model 3, go for it. But it will NOT satisfy you like a 996!

Completely different driving experiences. Acceleration can be mind blowing, the torque is incredible and the technology is just plain cool. That being said, I wouldn't trade any 911 for a Tesla. There is something unique about driving a 911 of any generation. I know a lot of people who would take a Tesla over a 911 in a heartbeat, given the opportunity. It'll be interesting to see how the Taycan fares, and if Porsche ever offers a hybrid 911. Some of the magazines are speculating that it is only a matter of time.

They are both great cars but for very different reasons. I've detailed a bunch of the original batch of Teslas and I've got a few Model 3s under my belt now. I've gotten some seat time in them as well and I would say for every day driving they are really nice. I don't know if it would scratch my itch for a "fun" car though but I am also 32 and still enjoy the driving experience of a stiffer car. One thing they have in common for sure is that they have a nice enthusiast following, a lot of Tesla owners, at least in my area seem to know each other.

If you buy a Tesla you better hope that they will be around in a few years, the odds are pretty low. How long will people keep funding the company that has never made a profit, is hemmoraging cash and has no viable plan to change that?

Recently drove a friends model S P90d with ludicrous mode. Wow is all I can say. 0-60 around 2.6 seconds. It�s f�n well... ludicrous. The power is addicting. He bought it used for 63k... the risk of the brand going under and not being able to have after sale support is a real concern but god damn I want one. Would keep the 996 though.

I was at a PCA event a month ago held at a very large super clean body shop. There were a few Tesla’s in for accident repair. Body shop staff were talking that Tesla will not sell parts unless a bin is provided. Parts take forever to arrive and are not readily available. I predict the Tesla is be part of VW or Toyota by 2025

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^THIS!

Have no personal knowledge of Tesla cars driving, performance or reliability. I have seen and read info about them bursting into flames, not sure if model 3's. Their benefactor is enough for me to say no, in addition to the more knowledgable comments above. If I wanted pure straight line speed I would buy some kind of American Muscle car. The electric drive silence would be disappointing. I love the sound of a fossil fuel burning engine at WFO throttle. Sorry, I'm old...environmentally aware and active, but old fashioned in this regard.

I�ve spent time in several Telsas and they are indeed fun. But like everyone else, they are different animals. Personally, I�d stay far away from the Model 3. Plagued with so many problems (way beyond just supply chain), may have Elon exploring space and digging tunnels full time, if not rectified soon. The Model S is a great car, I just don�t think it�s much of a bargain. I like the Model X even more, but couldn�t own one purely based on how fugly it is. And there are SO many other cars I�d rather have for the same money. If you�re 100% decided on a EV, check out a slightly used BMW i3. Its currently a bargain and the interior is something I could live with... the exterior takes some getting used to.

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agreed

I was on a road recently that has traffic lights about every 1/4 or1/2 mile. If you're unlucky enough to get stopped at one, you get to stop at all of them. There was a Tesla (not sure which model) next to me at the light. When the light turned green he disappeared without a sound. I caught up to him at the next light. He kept launching with the green light. It was impressive.

They'll win straight line races all day long. That is not why I drive a Porsche. There are lots of vehicles that are faster in a straight line. None of them has the same balanced total package as the 911.

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^^^^ This

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I thought we were talking about Tesla, not GM. At least Tesla doesn't live off of (direct) government grants.

Never ever.

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I bought my wife the lowest cost 2014 S85 in the USA in February with 119k miles on the clock to replace her Benz diesel. The general warranty has expired but it has 3 more years of battery and motor warranty unlimited miles, she does about 20k a year. Free supercharging for life and she can charge at her work for free also. It's basic with the tech package and is in excellent shape. She loves it and won't go back to a gas car now, however like others have said it's not the same as a 996, but having said that I've never driven a model 3 so give it a go. I'm a big believer in my 996 not being a daily driver, it's an old car now and can have expensive problems so is for weekends and road trips. For daily driving it's very hard to beat an EV like Tesla, in fact for me it's all over, I won't go back to daily driving a gas car, I have a Chevy volt. I think it depends what you intend to use the car for, go test drive and compare. Search YouTube for an interesting video of a model 3 vs BMW M2 which is surprising

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I was thinking the same thing. It seems like people either love or loathe Tesla. I get a lot of vibes that for whatever reason people are rooting for them to fail but have no problem with the fact that because of their incompetence the tax payer had to bail out American automakers and then they just took the money and ran anyway. Obviously Tesla owners are going to be biased but in my experience with the owners and cars they haven't had too many issues. Fit and finish doesn't seem that bad and I've been through these things pretty thoroughly. The Model 3's have a 100k mile battery warranty which is pretty nice.

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Exactly. My 99 is 20 years old and people just love it and ask how new it is all the time. It's iconic.

I'm more interested in finding a 996 with a blown engine and putting a model S drive unit in. EV West's newest version of their E36 is insane.

Am I really reading this? Comparing a Porsche 911 to a freakin' Tesla? OH, the HUMANITY!!! Have we not listened to our Tommy... there is NO substitute! NEVER!!!! Now, all you men go out to the garage and apologize to your 996 for the perverse thinking!

Have a co-worker with one of the original tesla's equipped with all the options, Our home office is near the factory and one of their biggest dealers. His is as pumped up probably as any one ever made, (Sunk investment is probably > $120K), he even has some uncommon factory upgrades because he kept burning up parts.. Tesla doesn't care they just keep replacing whatever breaks. Its truly a experience to drive, or let it drive itself in launch mode. But when I went to lay money down its a 911 not a tesla,, The tesla is basically a 100,000 dollar honda accord. Your buying a tech package with a car attached. If you look at the power train and chassis, its all recycled tech from other cars.. Nothing new here.. Some custom trim and a iPad pro for a dash.. Wonderful transportation car. is it a sports car? Nope.

E cars are the future, like it or not. Tesla will die though. VW just broke the e lap record at the ring. Mercedes and Porsche are going to race formula e next season. As a result of the emissions settlement VW is building 488 charging stations across the US. VAG has budgeted more money to e cars the next 10 years than Tesla will ever see. Porsche has already declared the next gen sports cars will be hybrids and the gen after that will be all electric. It�s coming, like it or not.

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^^^ This!

I've considered getting a Tesla, or a Volt, or a Prius for my daily 52 mile commute. But it would be a throw-away car. My 996 is a forever car. I'm currently enjoying every commute, even in stop and go traffic, in my 996. Eventually my drive opens up and triple digit speeds are possible. I just wish there were more twisty turns on my commute. With summer just starting, and traffic easing up for the next 3 months, I'll forget all about electric cars for now. Also, my current job does not seem too stable at the moment and I may be reducing my commute to 40 feet before too long. (One can only hope!) If that happens I won't need a second car for commuting.

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I've driven against a few on track (in my F10 BMW 550i) and was leaving them in the dust, the P100D or whatever versions too. They are heavy and from what I can tell don't drive great around a corner, but that's not their schtick, so makes sense. But this is like comparing an Accord Sport to a 996 and expecting a reasonable answer lol... Not even in the same league, nor sport to compare the two. Add to the fact Tesla is closing shops nationwide and it's nigh impossible to get repair parts from what I read, they're more than a going concern at this point. They weren't and aren't the first electric car as some like to say, but to a small few I guess they made it 'hip', but the big co's are daily coming out with new and better hybrid and electric tech in cars that people will want to drive, so I don't see them as being viable long-term. That being said, the 3's are hardly expensive, so not like you'd lose out in the long run that bad if you had to sell it, since they have such an issue with fulfilling orders...

My wife and I drove a Volt as our only car for 4+ years before i purchased my 03 c4s this past April. Volt in sports mode is very enjoyable both city and highway, but no EV will ever feel like or drive like a 911. different car for a different purpose.

I own a Model X and as a daily driver the Tesla is great ...... But it does not compare to my 997 or my Cayenne S for pure driving spirit . If you are not a car enthusiast and you don't care about driving passion, spirit and soul and sound and smell .... Then buy one and you will love it. Mon - Thru Friday i drive my Tesla but when it's my time I drive my Porsche's.

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I just posted a roller last week.

Strap a Vonnen Shadow drive to your 911... https://www.wired.com/story/vonnen-s...911-hybrid/amp http://vonnen.com/components-specs/

I was actually in the market for a used Model S or new Model 3 before buying my first Porsche car(996). I currently drive an all electric VW e-Golf and it feels like a gokart, but the 996 is so much more fun to drive. I'm sure a Tesla would feel the same, but I'm happy with the 996.

I drove a Tesla Roadster years ago - I thought it was much more compelling than the Model 3. The Lotus body and the bleeding-edge powertrain I found interesting. In my opinion, which is neither learned nor esteemed, Tesla is much more useful as a market disruptor than as an addition to your garage. When the first Teslas actually emerged from the vaporware, the Bolt and Leaf were plainly visible for exactly what they were: placeholders for real cars, cardboard stand-ins because that's all the automotive industry could be bothered to produce. Jobs with the iPhone and Musk with Tesla shamed their respective industries. I believe Musk catapulted the electric car state of the art an entire generation forward in just a few years. I hope Musk makes a s**t-ton more money - he deserves it in exchange for the unflagging, exuberant hubris he chucks at the universe. However, I don't think I want to buy a car from the man.

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I agree that it doesn't make much sense to compare any 911 with a Tesla sedan, but the thing about the Tesla not being able to corner seems to be changing. Motor Trend just tested a Model 3 the brand new 330i and the Tesla beat the BMW on the figure 8 test, despite the BMW having the Track Handling package and summer tires and the Tesla riding on all-seasons. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/

Problem is,,, at the end of the day,, a Tesla has the carbon footprint of a Boeing 737. (Well maybe not that bad but,, building a thousand lbs of lithium battery ain't eco friendly.) Cadmium and Lithium are becoming the new "blood diamonds" , the conditions the miners work in are horrific. It takes tones of soil to be moved for as little as 10 grams of lithium. The power that charges the car is simply moving the emissions/impact elsewhere. I have a EV because its Cheap and convenient. I got it for < 200 a month.. and it saves me about 200 a month in gas. The hydrogen cars have way more potential to drop the impact than any storage battery solution,, if we can get people over the Hindenburg effect. Tesla has already made his pile off the venture. He is not getting hurt. I like the electric car from a toaster perspective, but I like my simple Honda Fit EV,, the Clarity is a disaster of a EV, only their Hybrid and Hydrogen versions make any sense.

I have both a 996 and a Model3. I'll take the model3 for my daily drive any day over the 996, it's a way more comfy and less fatiguing driving experience and still a **** ton of fun. That I manage to mostly run it on free green solar power is just the icing on the cake. Sure the 996 for driving for drivings sake on a sweet twisty road, is the bomb. Hard to compare the two for reliability given the age disparity, but I have no build quality or reliability issues. Auto pilot and adaptive cruise is a real feature and I use it every day so I can be more relaxed and distracted. The only minor delivery defect was fixed at our house when I wasn't even home.

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What was the minor delivery defect?

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Condensation inside one of the rear light covers, seems like it was a relatively common delivery defect at that time from forums...so I guess like the 996 there is a high correlation in defect types at known milages :-) I try to be objective about the Tesla, many people are interested in the ownership experience, and there are way too many polarized people on both extreme sides of the fence. I suspect this will not turn out to be a Toyota like ownership experience, there's so much quickly developed tech in this car that there has to be some number of lifetime defects/failures in a statistically significant number of cars, but so far they seem to be dealing with it reasonably well, certainly with the high mileage leaders in the model S and X fleets, and there's good reason to believe most cars will well outlive their ICE equivalents with remarkably low lifetime running costs. I will say I never get tired of looking at pictures of survivable Tesla wrecks, the mechanical design is quite remarkable and its a significant factor in my choice.

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I hear you. I droves a friends p90d with ludicrous the other day and I was blown away. Would love to add a (used)model S as my daily but waiting to see how things shake out with that company and until I �need� one (ie my daily dies)

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^ This. Externalization. People feel so great about their "green cars", they ignore all of the other parts of the system adversely impacted, potentially causing more harm than the original.

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You nailed it! These are complicated machines unlike anything that has been introduced on the market in modern history. Give it 15-20 years, you think we'll been wrenching on the Teslas like we do the cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s today? Guess I better start making friends with the computer science department.

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Yes they get to burn coal, but don�t tell that to them. And China doesn�t care about pit or strip mining for REMs either.

Tesla made EVs sexy and desirable (to many, not so much to me - I like engine sound). The big companies will make EVs profitable (eventually). Tesla shows no signs of this yet. So Tesla will either die or be bought out. Bet on it. If you buy one as a three-year commuter car only, you�ll likely be okay. But it�s no substitute for any 911 variant.

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To make it clear for others, the Volt is not an EV. It is a gas engine hybrid. My brother had one for a few years, as he got it with all the CA and fed rebates, it was too cheap to pass up. We(taxpayers) payed directly for 41% of his car. Idiotic. Thankfully the Volt died an ignoble death. GM lost money(even with the subsidies) on every Volt made. As for swapping the 996 for any of the Tesla flavors, I don't see any kind of comparison. 911 is a throwback vehicle. Yes, even the water cooled 996 is a throwback. All the real early cars were rear engine(except the Noble, and Stanley which had big boilers). Tesla is marketed as a tech-forward orgasm of new, new, new. I'm kind of surprised it has regular doors. As for EVs taking over, I don't see the big switch going on. EVs as a percent of world market share are still microscopic. If EVs were the future, we would be seeing big numbers in western Europe where gas is criminally expensive. EVs are only 0.4% of all cars in Europe, but they are growing, and will become a factor someday. What will drive EVs over the breaking point is a big run-up in gas cost in the US. If we got a 30% rise in gas prices in the US, there would be a flood of movement toward EVs(not hybrids), mostly in the urban crowd. Those people who are buing Prius gas cars, will switch over to PEV(plug in electric only). But - the 996 market is not going to be impacted if Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, and every other niche maker starts messing around in the hybrid world(not EVs, still hybrid with the gas engine doing 70-95% of the miles).

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I rarely hear Tesla buyers talking about any 'green' aspect of their ownership; they mostly seem to buy the cars because of they're on the bleeding edge of technology. I may have missed it, but has anyone in this thread even mentioned buying a Tesla to be 'green'? Yep, spot on.

Fiat 500e EV here (the one Sergio didn�t want anyone to buy). Not in the league of a Tesla, but pretty much a perfect vehicle for my short but grinding Silicon Valley commute. The instant, 100% predictable torque is great for darting around in traffic. I think it may beat the 911tt from 5-20. That it�s practically free to lease makes it a no brainer.

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Cost of electricity in most of Europe is also higher than most US states. For example, Germans pay roughly 3x the cost for gasoline vs. Texas, and roughly 3x the cost for electricity (possibly a bit less). So there's not the obvious strong pull from EV, they still have to pay for the power. Not everyone has homes with indoor garages, no free "superchargers" and they also have good infrastructure for commuting.

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Errrrrr..Europe is exploding with EV's much faster than the US. EU electricity prices are all over the place, but its still just as cost compelling as the in US though the green aspect is bigger deal there. https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/70913...sales-in-march But stepping back for a moment from a Tesla US and EU focus, China is really where this is happening and where by far the largest EV companies (that you never heard of) are, not to mention cheaper electric than the US: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/11...-sales-report/ http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/china/ Now I'm not suggesting that $30k Chinese EV's are giving a 911 driving experience, but I do want to challenge anyone who thinks that new car sales are going to stay predominantly ICE even in the short term. Remember Chinese domestic vehicle sales dwarf the US and EU, and that means the cost equation is going to continue evolving quickly. The energy and resource consumption involved in manufacture is a valid concern and it will improve again dramatically, not so much for altruistic reasons, but because it drives cost. But the big picture of how we should look at all manufactured items is the cradle to grave cost, and we have enough data at this point to see that EV vehicles have have far few wearing parts, and their projected useful lives will exceed ICE cars dramatically thus amortizing any initial disadvantages against much lower running costs. (Save the planet rant over, back to fun cars with engines in the ***.)

I have a 2013 Honda fit EV,, the lease runs out in just under 3 months, the daughters love it, both drive it all the time and they are going to be sad when "Sparky The Wonder Car" goes back to honda to be crushed.. (Compliance car.) For the record, it can consistently do 0-60 in 7.8 to 8.1 seconds. In sport mode. Its roomier than just about al lthe other EV's except the Tesla.. It cost me 35 bucks a month in electricity charging it about 50 % each night. Honda gave me the car for 300 bucks up front, 199 a month and they cover all the maintenance except tires. Oh and I only have to carry the liability insurance, Honda covers the rest.

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Fully understood. My comments were in reaction to "gas is super expensive over there, so you would expect to see more of them". My example is 3x gas vs. 3x electrcity prices, meaning you have to look at the costs of both the original fuel and the replacement "fuel". That's all.

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Challenge accepted. Norway - if you want to know the secret about EV sales in Norway, find out about the incentives and tax avoidance. Norway is using all it's leveraged power of social conditioning to push EVs. It is also hardly representative of the rest of the EU. It is a cherry pick example that does not remotely follow the rest of the continent. EVs in the EU(including Norway) still only make up 0.4% of vehicles on the roads. Yes, they are increasing, but not at any kid of 'exploding' rate. New car sales will remain predominantly ICE for the next 10-17 years, barring some catastrophic cost change in fuel oil(US). Fact.

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This is true for most of W EU. And it points out what I was saying in my post, which you conveniently did not quote. UNLESS there is a large swing in US fuel prices, there will be marginal growth in EVs here. Germany is about the size of Oregon and Idaho combined. With significantly higher population density. The typical German puts maybe 6-9000 miles on a car in a year, where in the US the average annual mileage is 13,476. Germans like to drive, but a day round trip for Germany might be 120KM, where a day round trip in much of the US would be 120 miles. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm There was a significant uptick in economy car sales when gas reached +$3/gal. Truck sales slumped. Those days are over, but if they return, we'll see a move toward more EVs. Until then, keep pumping, we'll keep driving gas machines.

Bought my dual motor model 3 after selling my LNE 4.0 996. Absolutely no regrets. The model 3 is such a better car, it's not even comparable. The acceleration is out of this world, the handling is fantastic and the over the air updates are simply amazing. I got 5% more horsepower and torque 2 months ago, absolutely free. Car just gets better and better. And the fact that I get to drive this car rather than constantly fix it is even better. Theres no maintenance on this thing. Never buying a gas car again. Especially a Porsche 996!

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Lol. They're not going anywhere. The cars are miles ahead of anything else on the road. Once you spend sometime in one, you will know they're here to stay, they are raising the bar for everyone else. Even the specs on the vaporware Porsche Taycan is already "meh" on paper when you compare it to the model 3 performance. There 0 dealerships around me. I got the amazon experience. Ordered online, dropped off at my house a month later. Had my 1st service last month and the "Tesla Ranger" came right to my house. Didnt even take the car out of the garage...fixed the problem with my seat and was in and out in less than an hour. I've never seen a company have this many haters. Get told my car will catch on fire by complete strangers. Maybe they should know their gasoline car is way more likely to burn them to death than my Tesla. 500 car engines catch fire a day but Tesla is the problem? LMAO. Clowns. The other day I came out of home hardware and some old man is smoking by my car and asks me if "this is one of those electric sewing machines" I say yeah and he then says "oh, guess you cant go very far in that heh" "500km on a charge" "Holly ****, that's more than my truck!" "Better looking than your truck. Faster than your truck and I can probably tow more than your truck" Lol

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I can charge my car with the solar power I create. But I'd love to hear how my gas, oil and soul burning 996 is better for the environment. I didnt buy the car because its "green" though. Bought it for the tech, performance and convenience. 0-100 in no time. Mid 12's 1/4 mile. 0.94 on skid pad. Drive home, plug it in, rinse and repeat.

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Since you quoted my post, let me clarify that I never said your Tesla or any EV is worse for the environment than the 996. I don't have the ability to make that assessment or calculation. When I mentioned externalization, I am thinking of the the environmental impact of mining and refining the materials to manufacture the batteries, the human cost borne by the people doing the mining and refining, the future cost of dealing with the toxic materials when the batteries eventually die, and similar issues in the creation and eventual decommissioning of solar panels (for those that use them to generate power). These are examples of some of the systemic costs that conveniently ignored by some on the Hybrid/EV bandwagon when they contemplate how environmentally conscious their choices are. Not saying that you fall into this camp, but I've seen it over and over with the people I know with hybrids and EVs. Also, not sure what soul burning has to do with anything. My 996es give my soul constant joy. Last of all, I am really happy that you love your Tesla, and hope it continues to give you joy.

My comment is because MY 996 absolutely sucked the soul out of me. Was fun to drive...when it wasnt broken, and well, after 2 engine rebuilds, I was done with that car And yeah, I'm not one of those people. I mainly bought the car for it's no maintenance and the performance. Not having to ever go to a gas station is a bonus. Free supercharging is nice but I've used that once since I got the car and it was more to just try it out. My gas bill went from $300/month to maybe $40 & my electricity bill went up about $40/month. Once i test drove my friends RWD model I was pretty convinced the Porsche was going up for sale. The next week it was gone and I put my order in for the dual motor 3 and havent regretted one moment. Love it so much that I am now waiting for their pick up truck to come out so I can replace the last ICE family hauler in my driveway. Was funny...was at the track this weekend and parked beside some of the super cars, and more people gathered around the 3 than the Lamborghini. The kids especially were very interested in the car. Elon is making kids and children dream of owning a Tesla some day....I remember doing this with Porsche when I was 12. How things have changed.

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Interesting. You start by saying you can charge your car with the solar power you 'create'. (I know what you mean, you capture it, not create it). Then you go on to mention 'plug it in'. A little back of the envelope math is in order. Using Tesla numbers, the 85Kw/h batt is good for around 300 miles. That breaks down to 283.33 W/m or at an ave of 50 mixed city/hwy lets say 14,667W/h per hour. A 30 min drive in a Tesla will use about 7300 watts, yes? I've done my share of solar work, so I have a pretty good idea of charge rates, and efficiency. A decent solar panel with 350W STC rating puts out about nominal 240W at 80% irradiance(no one gets 80% irradiance unless they are in the middle of a high desert location like me at 8000' central NM). But, we'll give the benefit of the doubt. Call it 250W so four panels, on a 2 axis mount will give 1000W of pure DC power from roughly 9am-3pm every sunny day. But wait, that 6,000W of pure DC power @ 120 volts doesn't get to go into the car, it has to be converted to AC, to go in the plug, and then converted BACK to DC to charge the batts. So, the best case MPPT charge controller, and best case inverter on the planet run about 89% efficiency - each. (0.89X1000)x0.89 = 792W per day of usable AC power going into the receptacle. One plugs their Tesla into this AC source, and viola! we can now charge the car. Here's where I lose track. I don't know squat about the charging mechanism of a Tesla. But I do know that our 30 min drive has used roughly 7.3Kw of power. We can charge at 220VAC and get a good 3.6 amps going. If the Tesla uses a good efficiency AC/DC converter(I assume) and they are also getting that 89% efficiency, then the battery is getting about 704WDC/h. If all goes right, and everything lines up just perfect, it will only take 10.5 hours to charge the car fully. Now, I've been conservative on usage, and liberal on charge rates for a reason. Real world actual conditions tell me that Tesla will take more like 20Kw/h to run(lights, AC, radio, etc). Real world charge rates and irradiance I know for a fact never ever reach 80%. More like 60% is the norm(having built 3 systems from scratch). But lets split the diff and call it 70%. That means we now need not 10.5 hours to charge but ~14 hours. That's two full solar days during the equinox, and 3 days at southern solstice, maybe just possibly one day during the summer solstice. For the 30 min drive. If we up the solar panel count, we can get better, but at what cost? 4 panels @ $200ea, plus MPPT cntl @ $400, plus inverter @ $1400(non-grid tie) just the bits is around $2600. If we add panels we need a bigger charge controller, and bigger inverter. Two days to charge the car for a 30 minute drive? Face it, you are 'plugged in' to the grid, unless you have acres of solar, and many $$$$$$ tied up in solar collection. Yes, it has a payback, if you grid-tie and you have a roof full of panels(oops, no longer 2 axis motion, now you are down to 35-45% irradiance) you can sell back power to the provider at 25 cents on the dollar. It will be cost effective in about 22-30 YEARS. If you bought it for the tech, performance, and convenience, that was the right choice, because they aren't all that 'green'. <edited to correct a bit of math>

I charge every night to recoup the days loss. Takes about 2.5 to 3 hours to recharge the 100km I used during the daily commute. I'm sleeping in my bed while that happens.

So, that 'solar' commentary was like Unisom, basically a sleep aid, and all your power comes from the grid. Which is about 65% petroleum generated. OBTW, conversion efficiency for oil/gas/coal to electric runs maybe 83% mechanical efficiency, and about 37% thermal efficiency? Sleep well burning all that oil/gas/coal my friend. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Lol. You know where I live? Were the 1st jurisdiction to eliminate coal fired electricity. The majority of Ontarios energy is created from hydroelectric and nuclear sites. But. I dont care. Car is a rocket and an absolute blast to drive. New dog in town, Telsa.

Wow, Ontario is very green on energy. Lot of nuclear, and no coal. Very progressive! A good fit for the Tesla paradigm.

I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf that I picked up last year for around 5k. It recently had the pack replaced under warranty (original chemistry wasn't great). For my driving needs, which are mainly local, it's the perfect car. Very torquey with great AC and really very little to maintain. The heat is good but uses a lot of energy - something newer EVs address with a heat pump. The fact that I can charge at work for free just sweetens the deal. I grew up rowing gears on a Miata tho, and there's an itch I have about hitting perfectly smooth shifts around corners that an EV (or any automatic for that matter) can't scratch.

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FWIW, purely to illustrate that its entirely practical with todays technology to cover your daily commute with generation at point of demand i.e direct solar-> car charging, my 52mile daily commute averages 15-16kWh, which is almost exactly a 3 hour recharge on 240V AC power from the panels under which my car is parked in the day. Panels cost about 0.60dollars/watt, fully loaded cost of the system including industrial scale inversion+batteries+distribution and charging stations adds a fair bit more, but still under $1 a watt. Construction cost of the parking structure dwarfed the solar infrastructure cost. Clearly you have to build at scale to hit these kind of numbers, but thats not an issue for a typical new construction Class A office construction project. Its a nice model for future development, the gas station paradigm doesn't work well for EV's and thats unlikely to change in the short term, possibly not even the medium term. It does hit a ceiling at some point, a multistory parking structure has diminishing roof space to car space ratio as you add floors, and I think with current and short term future panel technology only a single or 2 story structure could provision an EV charger for every space with a useful power rating.

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I'm glad to read about your experience with your Model 3. I've been looking to replace my DD and the Model 3 has been high on my list. My only hang up is I'm worried Tesla might not be around. Some folks say they've got so much great engineering in the pipeline that the company will bought by another auto maker or even google or apple. Still, I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger.

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If you are buying panels for $0.60 per watt, you are doing better than anyone on the planet. Retail costs are about $0.90/watt, large quantity for mono panels are running $0.79/watt. I'd like to see a price offered for 60 cents/watt. https://www.gogreensolar.com/collect...-panels?page=1 15Kw charge rate for 3 hours would be a nice 5Kw/hour @ 240V is pumping 20 amps at the plug. Given the efficiencies I know are inherent in the conversion, you're going to need about 5.7Kw/h of panel power at 100% irradiance. More conservatively, 6Kw or more of panel at 80% irradiance. That's 20 panels at 300W per panel. Each of the 300W panels are about 6x3', or 18sq/ft of area. 20 panels @ 18sq/ft each is coverage of 360sq/ft. That is an array 10 feet wide, by 36 feet long, under 80% percent irradiance, to charge ONE car 3 hours. There's no magic to this. Most EV cars that are plugged in do not use solar as their power source. The one's that do use solar are no where near $1/w in installed cost. Grid tie is even more expensive than off-grid. I would say a parking structure would be grid tie, but it doesn't have to be so, if the charger setup were not fed by the grid(no nights, no battery, no generator). Pure solar to EV charge has never been done to my knowledge, but willing to see an example. 7.5Kw system is around $10,000 out the door. Installation with grid tie is going to add another $5-8k. https://www.wholesalesolar.com/18915...75-watt-panels That's 20 panels, enough to do one car in 3 hours, with some power left over for cloudy days. There are use cases where it works. In the southern states, with lots of sun, and long days solar is getting close to being viable but still the grid beats solar for practical reasons. I wonder if I made a parking structure with a roof, would I put up solar and grid-tie to charge EVs? Might be a profit in there down the road.

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Are you leasing? I'm assuming, since there's no assumption of maintenance for the battery pack. I think Musk is a sharp guy, and I appreciate the disruption that Tesla has caused - but the reality distortion field enveloping the Tesla owners I know seems to make at least some of them pretty hostile when it comes to fielding questions about reliability, self-driving issues, etc. All machines break, and powerful machines break more thoroughly than less powerful machines...I think there are going to be some really interesting engineering issues cropping up as the first Tesla start accumulating age and miles. I don't think Tesla's going to fold anytime soon, but at some point Musk is going to have a harder time hiding the growing pains from the general public. There's an OCEAN of cars to choose from out there; it's fantastic that Tesla piques your interests. You can't deny that Musk/Tesla have a following. Tesla has also made tremendous strides toward eliminating the stigma that has always been associated with most electric cars ...and that's cool. A community behind EV's is crucial; I wonder if/how that effort is hindered by Tesla's not-so-friendly stance toward DIY/enthusiasts...

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Doc, reaching the limit of what I can casually discuss on social media, but to give you an idea of the scale of this type of project, and how it gets you this type of cost structure and much higher industrial conversion efficiencies than off the shelf retail equipment, this particular parking structure has just short of 9MW (nominal) of panels on the roof (~25500), and an integrated 4MW fuel cell plant consuming biogas (waste methane). It is grid tied, and across the various other point of demand generation around the total site, there's still about a net 25% shortfall in generation for which we bring in power from a dedicated off site 130MW solar facility via Californias Direct Access program. 0% fossil fuel involved unless we are in disaster mode and need to fire up emergency diesel generation. Currently have about 1000 AC EV chargers onsite powered off this. Clearly its horses for courses, this is an ideal system for California, with mostly blue skies at 37 degrees latitude. In Norway, you have all the hydro you could possibly ever consume. The UK or Denmark you have vast off shore wind potential. In France you have a night time Nuclear base load that needs to be consumed. But again, its an elegant model adapted to our local resources, that makes daily driving an EV a compromise free proposition for most folks.

Solar panels capture energy from moonlight?

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They are heavy into nuke. Glow power. But, no oil or gas!

I don't think so First of all sure the acceleration is a blast...but what then...no SOUND? I still miss the sound of the AIR COOLED 911'S. One of these days I'll get to putting a Gundo or Fister on my 996...No TESLA for me. I'll live out my life with the smell of oil and gas. Daniel....OLD guy

I own a 996TT and a Tesla 85D. I absolutely love them both. That said, I cannot comment on a 996, but if I owned one, I would not trade it in. I would keep it. That said, I traded a 07 Cayman 2.4 and purchased the 996 because the Tesla spoiled me.

360 sq ft will fit 3 cars and can potentially charge them in a 9-10 working day. That is why you seen more prevalent solar panel use down south. Solar panels do have a working life of 20 years max and they are rather inefficient today; around 20% conversion ratio or something like that..

Owning a 996 is much, much greener and environmentally sensitive than buying a Tesla. Why, because we save the energy and materials input to build a new Tesla. We are reusing, and recycling -- much more environmentally useful. And like stated above, the EV simply shifts the carbon pollution away from the car's exhaust to the power plant exhaust (until we truly have the grid supplied by renewables).

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It's hilarious how this is never talked about. I read that the environmental damage caused by creating a P100D requires an average of 6 years of driving before it becomes cleaner than a gas car. So those of you that think you're saving the earth with your electric car, think again.

We've owned a 2014 Volt for nearly 5 years as our only car before getting an 03 c4s three months ago. The Volt has traveled over 70k miles and we are averaging nearly 97 mpg (slightly over 700 gallons used in 5 years). In 3 months i've put 5k miles on the 996 and used almost 275 gallons. If i want efficiency i'll drive the EV, if i want to have fun i'll drive the 911. Nothing can match the sound of driving, windows down, through a tunnel at 5k rpm with factory sports exhaust on.

These threads make me truly sad. AWDGuy, why are you even here? How many laps around the track can you do in your Tesla?

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Yeah, most people don't want to leave a car sitting for 9-10 days. But it can be done. Tesla stock just downgraded recently. They've been running on subsidies for a while. I think those might be coming to an end soon. I could be wrong.

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LOL.

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I come here to read about the bore scoring. Just reinforces I did the right thing. I can lap for about 30 minutes and then use the track charger to charge for free. My 996 was to fragile to lap, after I had to pull the engine part for a 3rd time to fix the timing chain links, I was done done done with Porsche.

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I bought the car. Battery coolant doesnt need to be replaced. Brake fluid checked every 2 years (I already changed it for track) Cabin air filter every 2 years Clean/lube calipers every 12 500 miles Tire rotation every 10k That's pretty much it undqer the maintenance schedule in the owners manual. When I had it on my hoist i see a oil filter on a transfer case of some sort and I've read that oil has to be replaced every 100k km. I've had an airbag light error come on within the 1st month or so of owning it. Mechanic came to my house and fixed it in my garage. Theres no dealers near me so it's all mobile for me. My wife spilled a fruit salad on the front seat, and I got a seat belt warning light after cleaning it. They came to her work and fixed it. Under warranty! Cant say I'm disappointed with service. Delivery was fast. Ordered Nov 1st, got dec 12. Delivered in my driveway! Paint has issues. They completely missed some spots in the door jambs, and I am waiting to hear back on that. Someone that wasnt me removed the plastics on the paint improperly so theres a bunch of holograms that need to be removed. What really ticks me off was the $7800 MSRP reduction after I bought the car. Yeah, had I waited a month, I could have saved $7800 CDN or gotten the performance model. They just reduced the price again, depreciation is rapid in my case. Anyone thinking of the model Y should wait for a year or so after it launches. You'll save thousands. What's really amazing about the car is it gets better and better with the OTA updates. A few months after getting the car, model 3 owners got an update that boosted power by 5%. Good enough to put me in the low to mid 12's for acceleration. We then got another update saying they increased top speed performance, letting the cars engines deliver more power at high speeds. If theres reliability issues, I just dont see them boosting power on the motors. Keep in mind; less mechanical parts though And last week I got a new POV racing game on the Teslatari. You're absolutely right. Everything mechanical eventually fails. I learned that lesson the hard way after spending hours on the phone with Jake figuring out my timing chain issue. "Everything mechanical fails, it's why I dont ride roller coasters" Now I dont either. The Tesla is faster than one anyways.

I’m all for change for the better. Renewable sources of energy are critical for planetary survival. The reality is too few people are making too much money squashing the viability of renewable energy. That said, my 996 is what I want to drive, and will continue to drive. Those that want EV’s...super! I have concerns about long-term costs and support for full EV. Some day I will drive an EV as my DD. My 996 isn’t cheap to operate, but I didn’t lust after a Tesla or a Volt all my life. Those who’re leaning way too far in support of driverless vehicles and full EV transport are refusing to adequately filter reality from wish. Just one example: Driverless vehicles? Not likely to happen (for long) in our lifetimes. Too many variables. Insurance companies will squash the process due to liability. Visualize the immensity of the infrastructure costs associated with driverless traffic grids. Battery packs are a problematic, potentially serious environmental concern. Integration of human and computer on a traffic grid does not appear to be done safely with tech available for mass consumption. Can you imagine being a passenger in a commercial aircraft with 300 people and on full automation (no pilots), out over the Pacific, in a thunderstorm? How about flying into SF or NYC or Hong Kong with 50 other airlines and 100’s of civil aircraft not controlled? The Lion 737 Max that crashed? It did the same pitchover on a prior flight. A pilot sitting on the jumpseat told them what to do to get out of it. That same scenario unfortunately occurred later with horrific consequences. Boeing knew there was a problem with the aircraft and tried to hide from it. With humans aboard that mishap 737, passengers at least had a 50/50. With no pilot/pilots aboard, I contend passengers will have a zero percent chance to survive a serious malfunction like what happened with those 737 Max aircraft. Engineers design systems for flight, and a huge percentage of them can’t even fly. Do you think a computer would have done what Sully did? Maybe. But ‘maybe’ isn’t good enough. For those who consider nuke power renewable, I say it is not currently so. Until we build breeder reactors that can produce fissionable material, nuclear energy will not be renewable. U-235 supply is finite and not renewable. Some will say the Sun is nuclear and, by my reasoning, not ‘renewable’. Well, for me, 5 billion years more of fissionable solar material is close enough to “infinite”, rather than ‘renewable’. I am 100% for making a better world for following generations. I’m also for driving our fantastic carbon-belching, noise-making, awe-inspiring Porsche’s. I imagine horse-and-buggy drivers, circa 1910, were against motorized transport for many reasons, but also pretty sure environmental protection was not one of their concerns. In that respect, at least we’re trying to steer a better line through these courses. Thanks to all for the thought brought to this thread!

Always room for both. Want a model S for daily once my infiniti dies (140k Miles and going strong) and plan to keep my 996 until it dies for weekend fun and occasional DE

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That is correct, and nuclear has never been labelled renewable. It is called an "alternative energy" source; an alternative to fossil fuel energy sources. Renewables are solar, wind, hydropower, biomass, geothermal.. However in my opinion nuclear power is definitely the way to solve many problems, and give us a huge energy source .... if we can find a way to deal with the waste and politics.

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Actually Tesla's have transmission fluid in their motors and its best to change it out based off miles or time. Here's a link to my thread on changing the fluid on my wife's 2014 Model S. I plan on oil change every 20k miles, she's done 10k since the change so I have about 6 month more before the next change: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre.../#post-3403212 There are photos of the procedure if you click thru the thread.

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Unless you drive over-the-road for a living AND you intend to keep it for decades, maintaining a 996 is TREMENDOUSLY better for the environment than the carbon and heat footprint generated by creating and operating a new Tesla. Thermodynamics says so. It may not be better for your sanity, though...

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FSI

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I don�t think you have to fear Tesla being around. If they go bankrupt, their superncharger network and their infrastructure will be picked up by some large company. The Tesla is the best commuter car I have experienced! That being said, not selling the 996!

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Care to provide *any* quantifiable data to support that provocative opinion?

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Hopefully she doesn't burn oil. Most of these scored 996's are adding oil like I add Kw's! And yeah, I'd like to see some numbers backing this statement up. I don't see it. At all. specially after cracking open that engine 3 times. just the carbon foot print of UPS sending my parts back and forth to LNE is enough to say that stament is false. LOL

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Yeah, they aren't going anywhere. Another record quarter for Tesla coming up.. Watch. I'd totally buy another 996....and put a tesla drivetrain in it. Wonder how hard it would be to shoe horn this into a 996: https://www.evwest.com/catalog/produ...39m5pt4h2k6647

Good luck with your Tesla. Time to shift the discussion to a Tesla forum.

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I like the way you put that. This is how I have always seen it. With my 996 having been long ago manufactured, the main impact it now has on the planet is the minimal pollution it generates with its 2000-era emissions tech. It seems logical that perhaps the most environmentally-friendly thing we could all do is hold onto and highly maintain our cars for a long time, rather than supporting the repeated manufacture of new ones of whatever type. Overall, I don't see EV ownership being as much of an environmental benefit as it's claimed to be, UNLESS we were at a point where all electricity that fed them came from safe, non-polluting sources. The main benefit for now is probably lower personal maintenance costs, while under warranty, at least.

The Carbon footprint of an EV when you factor in the manufacturing carbon foot print makes a HUMMV look downright eco friendly... I drive one becuse its less than a buck a day to charge it.

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It's all easily quantifiable, and there's nothing provocative about it. The amount of energy it takes to create a new vehicle out of raw materials vs. continuing to use an existing vehicle is staggering.

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You�d think that but UPS has got nothing on chinese strip mining for REMs when it comes to carbon footprints. The entire green movement is an American tragedy when you consider how the two most populated countries on Earth don�t give a rip about burning all the carbon they can get to grow their economies. Going green is about feeling good. In the big scheme of things it makes zero difference.

Here is a pretty good idea of what it takes to get the REMs so Tesla and Prius drivers can save the planet.... https://edgy.app/china-rare-earth-minerals I�m sure that�s way more green than rebuilding M96 engines.

Tunnels full of people each driving 5,000 pounds of aluminum, batteries, and electronics is not the way to save the planet. It is, however, a great way to help enrich a certain friendly neighborhood billionaire so he can keep making sweet, sweet rockets.

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It's not that hard. I think this is a MUCH more likely scenario over the next 10-20 years, especially in states like California where our pinko legislators want to ban anything that emits carbon. EV conversions have been going on for a really long time, and shops like EVWest are making it possible for DIYers to put together electric vehicles that were unimaginable a decade ago.

Since the whole premise of this thread is off-topic for the forum, I'll share my off-topic thoughts. To rain a bit on the globalists agenda here, there is not actual proof that man-made global warming is real or that even if it was it is hurting the Earth OR that human carbon output is causing it. It's about controlling us and putting us into white collar urban "slave camp" high rises and causing us to fight amongst ourselves until we all kill each other from being annoyed because we live in such close proximity. Ask yourself: What is UN Agenda 21 What is UN Agenda 2030 Why do elites generate tons of carbon flying private jets and helicopters to talk about the evils of human carbon production Isn't it odd that most EU "country" leaders have no children? What are the Georgia Guidestones? And if you read all of this and think, "that guy is a crazy nut job conspiracy theorist", then fine, go ahead and buy your Tesla, but don't come crying to me when you say the wrong thing on Facebook and your social credit score drops below X and they disable your Tesla from accepting a charge. Also remember that, although he is "a bit" melodramatic, A.J. was right about gay frogs and the world being run by satanic pedos. Here's a simple explanation of it what this "green" religion is all about : You Tube In case there are any full-blown leftists here, who I find have a complete inability to grasp nuance, NO, I don't hate the earth--as a matter of fact my recycle bin has more in it each week than my trash, even though I suspect it all ends up in the same place and I take my used engine (and cooking) oil to a proper recycling facility. However, I do turn every light on in my house on "Earth Day".

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Ok, so this implies there are potentially 2 sources of climate change: 1. man-made changes, and 2. natural changes. I guess people are different when evaluating what constitutes "actual proof". For me with one opinion, I don't care at all if the changes are man-made or not because it doesn't matter one bit when considering the impact of climate change. If we consider only man-made changes, does that mean we just accept the negative impacts of natural climate change and do nothing? Is climate change is good and acceptable because it is not man-made? What should we tell the people who loose their homes due to sea-level rise: it's natural, so you are on your own? Once again the entire discourse is confused by those who want to find someone to blame rather than solving the problem.

Please oh great gods of Porschedom, let this thread die. There are Tesla forums for this kind of chit chat.

Guys, sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just have to make sense of some of the comments made on this thread. Some are factual or subjectively questionable. For example: 1.) Cost. The Model 3 is actually gone down, and it's really not that much more in the grand scheme of things.Compared to my 996, which has cost me $5k/yr just in maintenance/repairs, the model 3 isn't really much more expensive over a longer term, especially if you include fuel costs. 2.) Performance isn't just great from 0-60, it's also great on the track (see Randy Pobst Youtube and Doug Demuro). The 3 toasts some very fast, newer cars on the track. 3.) No fun to drive? The steering is supposedly just as good as a BMW M3. Of course, the sound is gone, and yeah, the flat-6 with a Fister/Gundo mod is GLORIOUS, no doubt about it. Maybe the 996 is 5X more fun to drive, but that's because the 996 is WAY at the top of driving pleasure list. I'd bet the Model 3 is one of the most fun cars to drive at anything above 5/10ths. 4.) Build quality issues. The Porsche has Tesla covered for sure, but then the pesky M96 engine could rear its ugly head. So see item #1 again LOL 5.) Tesla and EVs suck the life out of 'real' car people, and we might as well give up life if we have to trade in our 996 for a Model 3, let along, get off this forum. This one I'm not so sure about. I'd have to drive one, and on the track, too. Look at the faces of the people driving a performance model 3, on the track, or even on the street.

I�m getting a Tesla wall charger installed in the next couple weeks and plan to pick up a used model S P90D. Model 3 performance would be my other choice but I would rather buy a used car that sold for 120k and suffered a bulk of its depreciation compared to a new model 3. My 2000 996 will stay in my garage for occasional track days and weekend fun. The p90d has supercar performance 0-60 and it�s ok it�s silent. Ill just enjoy my 996 sound that much more when I drive it.